LOSTCasts 22: The Whole Truth

We finally got a new episode of LOST. In this latest podcast, we talk about the two major plot lines: Sun's pregnancy and Henry Gale. But we've got a lot of details to cover in each of these LOST plots. We discuss Sun and Jin's backstory, who might be the father of her baby... if she's pregnant at all. We also talk about the likely scenarios of a Sun pregnancy playing out, and the Widmore Labs connection. In addition, we delve deeper into Henry Gale, speculation about whether or not he's an "other", and if he is, what that might mean. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Download podcast #22 here

Here are some links related to this podcast:
General reactions on The Fuselage
Audio of Sawyer & Bernard talking backwards
Screencap of Henry Gale's balloon map

LOST Links
The Seeds' MySpace page
Buy The Seeds' album with the song "Pushin' too Hard"
Before they were LOST
LOST ads in Brazil
Flickr slideshow of Walt's comic book
Listener Chris' blog: The Black Smoke
More stuff on "The Prisoner"
Zeke in the pilot episode of LOST?

As always, send us your thoughts about this latest podcast, and the latest episode of LOST by posting them in the comments here, sending us an email, or calling our automated audio comment voicemail at: 206-666-2278.

Stay LOST.

Comments

[Ali]

err John got his legs back, I suppose its possible that Jin got his er sperm back?

[David]

THE PODCAST IS OUT ON A SATURDAY!

THE APOCALYPSE IS NIGH!

Just Kidding, well done :p

[sam]

ok, so in the promo for the next episode and you can clearly see a red baloon w/ a smiley face. Now, if you were new to LOST, you may think, "ok, so Henry Gale was not lying." But I mean COME ON, it's LOST. If the island, or whatever, can make a plane come down, it would not be to hard to get a baloon. Now, thats just me oppinion. Now on the Sun thing. Ok, I believe that Sun was truthfull to Jin and she is the new "Virgin Marry" w/o the Virgin part but still the same concept. I mean, if Locke could not walk before he got on the plane and now he can walk, she could get pregnant. Well, my oppinion is that Locke is not what he seems. I'm not intierly sure why, but I think that Locke is not what he seems.

[David]

I love your podcast, but I think you guys take the Official Podcast waaaaay too seriously. Damon and Carlton obviously like to play with our minds. I recall you mentioned in the past that Roussea was going to have a flashback, but I'm pretty sure that this was just a joke, since they also said in the same podcast that the actual island would have a flashback episode. You also mentioned that they were hinting that the name for the medical hatch would be important. I took this as making fun of people that want names for everything.

You might want to listen to these podcasts remembering that they really are made to entertain, and will not be big on spoiler info.

[Andrew]

I can't believe anyone else has figured this out.
Sun is going to birth Jesus. We know Jin can't, ahem, perform, and Sun said she's been completely loyal.
Hell, Jin himself said, "It's a miracle"! Immaculate conception, anyone?

[Lisa]

On iTunes the Original Version of "Pushin' Too Hard" by the Seeds in on the "Travel With Your Mind" album. On the front it says April 1967...hope this helps.

[Ryan]

The "accelerated development" thing seems almost a required element, now. You mentioned Walt and how he'll suddenly be two years older the next time we see him. And that without such a plot device, Sun won't give birth until 2012. But what about Aaron? He's, what, two weeks old? He looks like a six-month old already!

And yeah, for practical reasons, all TV and movie babies are like that, but "Lost" can actually have a good excuse!

[PaperTiger]

Sorry--wrote the following comments in email until I realized I could post directly. A few points. One---has anyone here looked at the latest addition to the Lost "diary" on the ABC site. The writer has continued his/her rant about his/her "brother" being held in the hatch. I for one am perplexed. Also, I came across a post on sledgeweb, leading to a post on the blackrock.org and what appears to be either a new Dharma video (in which case this may be a SPOILER) or a well-done fake. Sure is interesting. Check it out: http://www.theblackrock.org/module-ContentExpress-display-ceid-7.phtml

[Cihan]

Maybe the last episode of season 2 will take place a year or to in the future to:

a) Bring back Walt in a believable manner.

b) Make Aaron older.

c) Make Sun and Jin parents of a baby.

Battlestar Galactica recently had a flash forward in the last episode of its current season, and I thought it was a really cool move. It would be interesting in Lost too, the changes in the characters and their relationships to one another after more than a year on the island would be interesting material for season 3 and the flashbacks in that season would be to earlier in the year to see how they go to their current state.

Or they could go crazy and make season 3, 10 years in the future or something.

[Gary Troup]

I wonder if there is any significance with the release date of "Bad Twin" being May 2. I think its fair to assume that we will be learning a whole lot more about Zeke and the theatrical glue.

[Elle]

Hey, Your Podcast is awesome and everything but why don't you put it into Chapters like the Jay and Jack podcast? Its easier to go through. Plus I usually listen to it while I'm laying in bed at night and no offence to you of course, but I fall asleep and miss something like the last 20 minutes. So I'm just recommending that you have chapters. Keep up the good work. Thanks so much.

[Jon]

Half-life. In Philip K. Dick's "Ubik" the state of suspended animation between being fully alive but before death is called "half-life". In this state, various participants exist in a a communal artificial reality, and when they die they are dead.

'...
Ubik is a 1969 science fiction novel by Philip K. Dick. In 2005, Time Magazine named it one of the hundred best English language novels published since 1923
...'
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubik

[Biolite]

Am I the only one who thinks this, but I've heard it mentioned that Charlie went back to heroin several times. Though I recall him saying he wasn't using, and based on his character developments and growth on the island I tend to believe him when he said he wasn't on the smack.

After all it wasn't until he got crazy island dreams (that other non-heroin users have had) that he started acting funny. I think the fact that no one would believe him is what made him become dark again, I still don't think he's on heroin.

[Andrew]

PaperTiger, I just checked out that link...I think we can safely assume it's a fake. Yeah, they've got the music down perfect, the logos look legit, they've even got the spliced film thing going...but they also have a totally wooden actress portraying the scientist. Aditionally, the dialogue sounds like it's trying a bit too hard to sound authoritative. I wouldn't trust anything of that nature unless it was on the actual LOST website or something like the Hanso Foundation page.

[Hoaxter81]

Okay, I never whine about women's rights... though I am a woman who may not agree completely with the way we are presented in the media, I rarely complain because I know I would be a hypocrite. When I dress up, I wear makeup and high heels and I work out so I can be thin just like the media tells me I should be and I dye my hair blonde because I am conditioned to think I look better that way. I don't go crazy with it, but to claim that I am immune would be making myself into a liar.
There is one female steriotype I have little tolerance for, however, and I was shocked to hear you otherwise educated men buy so blindly into it. The tabloids make a point of reinforcing it anytime a marriage doesn't work: Meg Ryan, Nicole Kidman, and Jennifer Aniston are just a few of their more well-known victims.
I am referring to your assumption that Sun was lying to Jin when she told him that she had never been with another man. Are you guys kidding? The "look" she had on her face while she was hugging Jin was clearly that of relief and joy...not of a woman concealing a secret of her adultery. Who would she have cheated with? Korean Mr. Clean? Why? Because she was in a hotel room alone with him getting English lessons? As if a married woman's presence in a hotel room with a single man is some sort of automatic indicator of foul play. I'm pretty sure she was capable of controlling herself. Or maybe she cheated with Michael. Seriously? And the entire time Jin and Michael were building the raft, Michael was able to act completely normal and guilt-free? And Sun was just acting when she was still trying to salvage her relationship with Jin by extending an olive branch of english translations for his journey, or when she was upset on the shore as he was sailing away, or when she freaked out about losing her obviously still treasured wedding ring? What revelation of Sun's character has appeared so low in your eyes that would make you assume she'd sink so easily to the level of an adulteress, and then have the ability to lie straight to her husband's face AND THEN SMILE about getting away with it? C'mon you guys. There are many things about Lost that are mysterious and veiled and worthy of reading into...but this scene was so self-explanatiory and so obviously meant to be a heartwarming marriage building moment, I think it should be seen for what it really is: The triumph of a woman's persistence at saving her marriage--a moment of connection between a struggling couple after Sun made the brave and difficult decision of choosing to lay the incredulous sounding truth before a man who has done little more than tear her down and belittle her word.
I would not say anything except that EVERY OTHER ACTION Sun has done--except for her learning english secretly and making plans to leave her husband, which she later decided against--have shown Sun to be persistently faithful, loyal, and loving toward her--let's face it--not entirely agreeable--husband. And then as soon as the tinyest glimmer of a possibility of adultery is introduced, you guys JUMP on that and make it your theory. With all the crazy crap that's going on on this crazy island, you think it's not possible that she has becaome pregnant despite Jin's apparant incapability? Locke is WALKING for goodness sake. I would ask for a little more thought on your guy's part before you make such predictions--further reinforcing an unfair stereotype.
That said, I love your show and am an avid AVID fan. Keep up the good work, and Stay Lost.

[mike]

whoa, calm down. the lost cast guys had every right to make that accusation. It had nothing to do with sun's character, (who would blame her for cheating on jin)it had more to do with the fact that immaculate conception is a bit out there. they weren't trying to make sun out to be a whore or anything, they were just analyzing the show.

[Matt Lafferty]

After my rather vitriolic post about the Grand Conspiracy to Conceal the Existence of M.C. Gainey (aka Zeke) in the Lost Pilot Episode, I would like to wholeheartedly apologize, for I am now a true believer. After clickity-clacking my way to Aerosmith's "Cryin'" video featuring Josh Holloway (aka Sawyer), I have come to a startling realization about how long Lost has been in the works.

Three minutes and fifty-seven seconds into the video, while Josh is on the run with Batgirl's purse, he zooms past a man who is in the shadows. Who do we know on Lost that Sawyer has made contact with while in the shadows? That's right, Zeke! I propose that the man in the shadows is not an unnamed extra but rather M.C. Gainey himself! This is proof that the creators have plotted everything into such great detail that the Gainey/Holloway connection was started in the 1980s--indeed, proof that J.J. Abrams was devilishly designing this show even before he was old enough to buy beer.

Or the shadow guy in the video is an extra, and so is the bald white dude running past Shannon in the first episode.

My point is this: I love the great detail that the LOSTCasts guys bring to their 'cast, and as someone with a Literature degree I'm all for enjoying every last detail. I think it's great that Lost is arguably the most complex and literate ever show on television, and it's phenominal that the users and creators of this and other sites are using their noodles to hunt down and learn about books, art, authors, comic books, and so forth. My complaint is that some, myself included, sometimes focus on the grains of sand to such degree that we forget we're on a beach.

To me, some of the key large issues that could use more braintime are:
--What is the emphasis on children? Why was a premium placed on Walt and the tailie kids?
--What is the intent of the Others? If the island is Noah's Ark, why the mindgames for the castaways?
--Why do people keep crashing here? The Henry Gale balloon debate aside, what made the plane crash here, the Black Rock crash? What brought Adam and Eve (the dead bodies in the caves) here?
--What is the nature of "The Big Secret?" I keep thinking about the end of "The Sixth Sense," where in 10 seconds of flashbacks the audience gets it; all the clues suddenly fit and the mystery is revealed in three unspoken words: He Is Dead.

For me, for The Big Secret to be pertinent in a larger way (such as "WE are the Others" as was suggested in a podcast) it has to be simple--a basic comment on humanity. Think about the end of Planet of the Apes: it was Earth and we humans destroyed ourselves! The film begs us to go home and have conversations (which I guess people did before the internet?!) about how the film comments on us and what we can do to change, etc. As was pointed out in an early podcast (I think), Lost essentially is post-9/11 scifi, and as Twilight Zone reflected communist-era creepyness, Star Trek reflected late-60s race/gender optimism, Next Generation foretold then reflected a post-USSR peaceful world unity, Lost reflects a world where we're not sure which end is up. WMDs or not? Did some see 9/11 coming or not? Terrorists in our midst or not?

I'm like everyone else: I don't have solid answers, just questions, and I think some of those questions above are a bit more critical than when a C-list actor like M.C. Gainey started on Lost.

So that's all I have to say about that. Guys, keep up the great work!

[PaperTiger]

I've got to second the "calm down" here---although it was nice that Hoaxter81 made a point of saying she's an avid fan (me too!). I don't think anyone, as Hoaxter said, was questioning Sun's moral standing or that this has anythig to do with gender biases. In fact, the episode was deliberately unclear---the very clear tension shown between Sun and her English teacher, the final scene between them cutting off just as the teacher moves closer towards her and says something making clear he has more than just platonic friendship in mind. If I had to venture a guess, I would AGREE that the island probably cured Jin and that the baby is his, but the episode was designed to provoke speculation about this and calling such speculaton sexist is really off-base. I love Sun too---but all of these characters are complex---that is, human---and that's what makes them sympathetic and part of what makes the show so engaging. What if it turns out that Sun did have an affair? Would you see that as an affront to her character or a sexist decision by the writers?---I don't see why.

[Matt Lafferty]

Well, while I'm both ranting and raving, lemme throw my hat into the same ring as Hoaxter81: I think that Sun did not cheat with the Korean Mr. Clean. While KMC was definitely wanting the Sun to set on him (hee hee), I think that Sun was completely above board. He was a discrete male friend with the opportunity to provide a private location in order for him to teach her English. Do the creators want us to consider the possiblity that she cheated? Absolutely--especially since they showed her with him before we knew why. But I agree with Ms. Hoaxter that everything in Sun's personality shows that she loved Jin for better or for the whole lot of worse she ended up with.

[Cameron]

Oh yeah? Well I would just ask this: if Sun is so innocent, why in season 1 did she say the following?

Sun: "Do you think all this, all we've been through, do you think we were being punished?"

Shannon: "Punished for what?"

Sun: "Things we did before, secrets we kept, the lies we told.."

Shannon: "Who do you think is punishing us?"

Sun: "Fate"

[BLinder]

Hoaxter, we weren't saying that Sun definitively had extramarital relations with either Korean Mister Clean or Michael. With mysteries like Sun's pregnancy, we like to speculate by throwing everything we can think of against the wall and see what seems likely to stick. And that's all that's about. I think we'd all roundly agree that honest platonic relationships should not be suspect as a default.

And Lafferty,
When it comes to Lost: First viewing for the beach and second viewing for the grains of sand.

[Biolite]

I'm going to have to side with the didn't cheat camp. Hoaxter81 is correct when she says that evrything we've seen from Sun since they crashed points to a woman who realized that she was still in love with her husband, which I believe was the point of her first flashback episode. She did, however, plan on running to America to escape her life, her father, and her father's influence on Jin. That's what she felt she was being punished for. My gut when watching the last episode was that it was a look of relief and a happiness that Jin understood, and trusted her.

That being said, BLinder is correct. Lostcasts woudn't be Lostcasts if they didn't present all possibilities. This is Lost after all, anything can happen.

[Matt Jones]

"except for her learning English secretly and making plans to leave her husband, which she later decided against"

Those are some pretty big exceptions. Once you've committed one deception in a marriage the path is paved for more. Plus, we are forgetting the most important man in Sun's life. Her father holds a greater sway over her than Jin. She wants to be out of his grasp. I think she married Jin in part out of love but mostly as a big F you to daddy. She though that by marrying a fisherman she would be cast out of the family. But the opposite happened. Her father co-opted Jin. Jin became everything that she despised about her dad. Enter Mr. Clean. She had the hots for him and if he didn't shoot her down she would have been with him. He is a nice enough guy and he has wealth and power to rival her father's. He could take her away from the life. Jin was the fallback plan. Now she is meeting with him to learn English so she can leave her husband. She has sex with him because after all she can't get pregnant and she's going to need a meal ticket in the US. Now these may not be her surface motivations. We can all do a great job at convincing ourselves that we are doing the right thing especially when we are doing wrong.

The other solid clue to her having met Mr. Clean’s little Mr. Clean are the flashbacks. I've always interpreted those as being the memories of the featured character and that those memories are being triggered by what is happening on the island. If Sun is thinking she's pregnant why else would she flashback to her and Mr. Clean? The fertility doctor and Jin's reaction make sense. But why Mr. Clean unless there is a chance that Jin is not the father.

Plus the flashbacks have shown us time and again that we don't know these people as well as we think we do. I don't think we should make the mistake that Sun is a pure hearted innocent. She is a Korean Meadow Soprano. The Daughter of a mob boss. They are used to having their way and tend to possess massive daddy issues.

[Blinder]

Yeah, but the fact that she's just now discovering she's pregnant after being on the island for a little over two months basically rules out the possibility that her child was conceived before boarding the plane. A pregnancy makes it self known biologically pretty early on. I've heard of people going up to 7 months without realizing they are pregnant, but that's very rare and involves circumstances that aren't a part of Sun's physical make-up. My vote is for a post-crash conception.

[Matt Jones]

I think the timing is about right. If they hooked up right before she left then now would be about time for her to start noticing un-deniable symptoms. She could have had some earlier that she just chalked up to her circumstances. Who wouldn’t be hungry, tried and emotional when stranded on a freaky island? However, I do think the kid is Jin's. The Island healed him. (I realize that I screwed up in my last post and Sun can get pregnant.) They baby was the result of back from the other side of the island sex. Remember Jin standing on the beach like Conan after a raid? But Sun doesn't know about the recuperative powers of the island. She thinks Jin is shooting blanks. So if he couldn't have knocked her up then in her mind it must have been Mr. Clean. She is now racked with guilt because Jin is so happy, but she is sure the kid isn’t his. Now she must decide to keep things quiet or fess up to her affair. The irony being that it’s Jin’s kid all along. That’s dramatic tension.