Get Ready: Dave

Yet another week of LOST, without interruption. Tonight's episode, Dave, is already sparking some discussion, and the early birds on the message boards are already talking about the merit of this latest episode of LOST. Some mysteries were confirmed, and others are still up in the air.

Have any thoughts on Libby, Henry Gale's real intentions, Locke and Henry's strange relationship, what Eko is building, or anything else? Send us your thoughts for the podcast this weekend by posting a comment here, sending us an email or calling our automated audio comment voicemail at: 206-666-2278.

Comments

[Ryan and Dacia]

Wow. First post maybe?

Our thoughts:

1) Libby stalking Hurly? She drop out of med school because she went nuts? Or did she go nuts because of med school?

2) This is 100% NOT all in Hurly's mind.

3) Kind of lame - but one of the points of the episode was that if you’re an overweight dude and a skinny blond chick with a nose job likes you, she's probably nuts. Unintentional, but still lame.

4) Gale is still not telling the truth to Locke. He did push the numbers. The real question is - why is Gale wanting them to stop pushing the numbers? If it happens is the game over and a bunch of suits run in and save the other formerly known as Gale? Also, he described the magnet and the glyphics. He is familiar with the hatch.

5) Does everyone on the show have an addiction?

6) Seems like the doors went down to keep people in the hatch - duh?

7) Island is not seen by other people. Confirmed. Also, not seen by God? Wow. The afterlife comments will seep out of the woodwork again.

8) FINALLY - they are telling everyone about stuff. Everyone heard about the food and now they know about Gale.

Wow, great episode.

Comment on last weeks podcast. Too many dudes. You guys start getting real geeky when your all together. Get a girl on or reduce it back to the two regulars!

:)

[Michael Box]

Well, here are a few thoughts about htis week's episode.

1) I agree with Ryan and Dacia, Gale might have pushed the button. He might be baiting Locke into not doing it so that whatever "bad" thing will take place does take place.

2) Libby. Ok so, I assumed that she wasn't a psychologist/psychiatrist from the beginning. But when we see her in the hospital she obviously has a different color to her hair. The writers would not ask an actor/actress to change their looks for no specific reason. I was looking at a few other forums and I agree with edwardaggie98 on the numbers forum. He implies that the woman in the hospital was not libby, but libby's twin. We have seen a twin theme on the show before.

3) The best part of this episode: Jin standing back and laughing while Sawyer got his but whooped by Hurley.

4) Regarding Hurely: the boy is messed up, but we love him anyway. He finally gets the girl!

[lostlaw24]

I think we see that Gale still is not telling the truth, and that he is too smart to fall for the good cop bad cop routine if that was what Sayid and Ana were going for. Locke has such a lost puppy syndrome that anyone who helps him out, he can't let go off them. Finally, I am pretty sure that at the end in the mental ward they asked the girl "libby did you take your pills" so I don't think it is a twin or sibling of any sort, that it was actually Libby in their and she is just a compulsive liar. She looked crazier than Hurley. By the way, the whole episode made me think about Fight Club, with Tyler Durdin and Ed Norton's character..anyways.

[Aaron Williams]

I thought it was a pretty good episode. It felt like such a nod to the fans. Henry describing what happened with the button sounded so much like a fan trying to figure out what was going on. Also Dave telling Hurley it was all in his head I think tells us that the writers arn't going to end the show like that, thankfully. Libby probably learned how to be a psychiatrist from the ones in the hospital.

[Shelley]

As far as what is real and not real . . . just to recap . . . Kate and Sawyer saw the black horse . . . and touched it . . . Jack thought he saw his Dad . . . Shannon saw Walt . . . and now Hurley sees Dave. There is a recurring theme here. I think the idea that there is a type of mind sickness that either occurs or escalates on the island for certain Lostaways is being gradually brought to light.

I wonder if each of the people on the Oceanic flight were shadowed or watched or chosen by Dharma or Widmore people so that they knew who their guinea pigs would be prior to the crash. If that is true, maybe Dave, Libby and the doctor were all a part of getting Hurley to the island. Maybe the doctor made Hurley believe that Dave was imaginary . . . although we do see that picture being taken from third person perspective (of Hurley and Dave) and Dave is clearly not there. If Dave is not real, is it the island encouraging the mental illness or is it Hurley's old mental illness coming back to haunt him? I think the guy reciting the numbers was somehow affected by Dharma or Widmore . . . maybe he was one of the original hatch number pushers . . . Libby I guess is a mystery . . . and I still hold the possibility that she is with Dharma or Widmore . . . some of the others seem to have acting capabilities . . . she might too.

Locke does seem to desperately need support and validation . . . even if it is from an other.

Henry Gale will lie until he gets out of there. Every time he seems like he is "letting" something out of the bag . . . I don't buy it.

I don't know if he pushed the numbers or not . . . I think he may have reset something within the hatch to open the doors, reset the timer and reset the magnet or whatever. I'm not sure why he wants Locke to stop pushing the numbers, unless that is part of the experiment. "We've seen that they will push the numbers forever . . . what happens when we tell them not to . . ."

I really liked this episode. Thought it was great. Can't wait to hear your podcast.

[Mike Campbell]

I thought it was a good eppisode. The only reason i didn't think it was perfect was because we didn't get enough stuff with Gale. We finally found out the truth i think there should have been more of a follow up with him. But we got a lot with him last week and we can't have back to back eppisodes about him, that would be too much info :) I also believe he is not telling the truth. He lied right away about how they found him. I don't think we can believe anything he says. We might even have to throw away the comment about God. There has to be something that happens if the button isn't pushed. Carlton and Dameon both said "they would be pissed if they built it up and season and got nothing" So right now i am not on baord with anything "henry" says.

Maybe we will get a more gale centered eppisode next week because it seems jack is going out looking for trouble. Does this mean he will "get the guns" from Sawyer next week? or go out unarmed?

[Michael Box]

I forgot about the nurse actually saying her name. yeah that shoots the twins theory down.

One thing I wanted to mention though...we have not heard about a lot things from the first season much: the smoke monster, the tailies side of the island, the caves. But Hurley comes out and says he was going to move back to the caves. Maybe we will see them again. I dunno.

[Gary Evans]

Did hurley say he saw the guy who repeated the numbers from the mental hospital in the hatch? I thought I heard dave ask him that.

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

One interesting thing is what Dave says to Hurley as he dives off the cliff "See you in another life." Isn't that what Desmond says to Jack? I was waiting for him to say Brotha. Anyone else notice that?

[James]

Well, this episodes seems to have done more to set up the next episode before the break than provide insight into the others. I'm of the mind that Henry did lie to Locke about not pushing the numbers; however, I am fairly convinced that what he said was true about the higher-up that would kill him. He doesn't appear to be with the Widmore group (if there are two groups and they are unaffiliated with the Zeke others). I am, however, starting to think that Widmore might have been a pawn for Dharma. We know that there was a Widmore Labs and a Widmore construction. What I was wondering was whether the contrustion division is in anyway related to Michael. As i recall from his flashbacks, his conversation with his girlfriend reveal that he was in search of a contruction job. What if Widmore had a job for him....just not in construction?

[goodking]

Gale's comment regarding Zeke - "Him? He's nothing" - really opens up the possibility that there is something much larger looming on the island than any of the "others" we have seen thus far. Maybe Zeke really is some low level associate, and there is a much larger organization at work here on the island than anyone imagined up until now. I think Zeke is at the bottom of the totem pole, and Gale seems to confirm this by scoffing when Zeke is mentioned. Galke is scared of something/someone much higher up than Zeke.

[Brennan]

Great episode...wasnt too crazy(pardon the pun) until i saw libby in the loon bin, but hey it was good.

In the US promo, when Jack and Kate are out trying to meet up with Zeke, and then you see Jack pick up that doll, and then you see what looks like 2 people in a net, or what I think, Jack and Kate with Walt in the middle? I donno, ya but great episode...pumped for the podcast and the next eppy!
be blessed
Brennan

[v]

how does ana-lucia know about the guy in the beard (zeke). they never faced off

[Michael Box]

I posted this on the numbers forum also:

So we have Gale making a statement about God. Or more specifically about what God sees. I am a biblical studies student. I have been looking into much of Lost in relation to its religious tones. Let's take Gale's statement that "God doesn't even see this island" (paraphrase).
In the Judeo-Christian concept of God, God is holy: meaning pure, unblemished, ontologically unable to sin. In fact, passages in the Jewish texts and Christian texts focus on the idea that God cannot look on sin. He diverts his eyes from it, and that he turns away from sin. He cannot be in the presence of sin.
So, when Gale makes this statement, maybe he is referring more to what is happening on the island and less to what God can or cannot do. Maybe this is a reference to several morally questionable activities taking place on the island.
Just a thought.

[Maurice Tift]

I am absolutely certain that this episode is all about doubt and uncertainty. I don't think Eko confirmed that he was building a church, but if it is a church then it is meant to stand in contrast to the doubts and troubles that others on the island were experiencing. This episode was amazing.

[Greg]

I have yet to see this episode as I am from Scotland, but I saw some clips from it before the episode. I already knew Henry wasn't an other from those clips. ^_^

[r00d]

There's been some talk on the numbers forum about the photo of an island on the wall in Hurley's Doctor's office, specifically that in the first scene the photo is pretty clear, and the second time there is a weird shadow/reflection semi-obscuring the image.

One thing I noticed is that in this second viewing of the photo, the reflection creates what looks a little like a plane with a plume of black smoke coming from it, heading toward the island.

This is clearly not actually a part of the photo, it is created by the reflection, but given that the shot has a reflection/shadow at all in the second scene, it seems that maybe it was set up specifically to give this impression. Just a thought anyway. There's a link to the image below...

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g136/r00d64/IslandPic.jpg

[Greg]

Wow, that's a pretty good find there r00d.. I'll comment more when I've watched the new episode.

[Courtney]

So I have a few thoughts on Libby. We all know not to consider any connections as random or as coincidence.... So here are a few of my Libby theories:
1)If Libby does work for DHARMA, Hanso, etc., she may really be a pyschologist (who would know how to act crazy) and was planted in the mental hospital. But was she a plant to observe Hurley or the guy that Hurley learns the numbers from???
2)If Libby isn't working for the others, then she could still be faking crazy.... What if one of the people who died in the deck collapse was someone of importance to her (husband, friend, etc.) Hurley blames himself, so it's possible she could blame him too, and she planted herself in the same mental hospital to follow him and maybe get revenge. This would also explain how she ended up in Australia at the same time as Hurley and how she ended up on the same flight. Not to mention, that she had the immediate ability to lie to Hurley when they first met on the island and he thought he recognized her. (She said he'd stepped on her foot while boarding the plane... impossible if he was in the front section and she was in the tail section.)
3) Then there's what we can take away at face value. Maybe Libby really is crazy and she fixated herself on Hurley when they were in the mental hospital.This too could also explain how she ended up in the same place as Hurley, and she could be using her past therapy to be impersonating a psychologist.
As for the fake "Henry" I do think he pushed the numbers in and he's lying to Locke.
And I also caught the "See you in another life" phrase that Dave used and immediately thought of the Jack/Desmond flashback. No way that it's a coincidence!

[Ryan]

Hey Micheal Box,

Please don't limit God to some... BOX! Lol. If he wants to look at sin he can. If there really is a one true all-powerfull God he can look wher he pleases.

Also, many believe hell is a place that God doesn't see. This would make the island hell! If you have seen that creepy angel flick with c. walken it's in there. It's also in the Bible. This would also work with the guardian being Cerebus.

To be perfectly honest, I have feeling that Gale said that stuff about God and the island just to screw with the losties.

[Dwayne Wade@MIT]

BAM! Suck on that!

Raise your hand if you detailed incontrovertible evidence last week that Henry Gale did not press the button.....oh wait, that's just me.

Why no one wanted to discuss this last week is beyond me, but now you have to talk about it. For those of you who still don't believe....

Remember Henry's words:
Henry: I did what you told me to. I punched in the code and I pressed the execute button, but nothing happened other than the clock flipping back. I was just climbing back into the vent when the lights went out. 10 seconds later the doors went up.

Actual Timeline:
Lights go out (generator sound still going) = Numbers not entered yet = Henry is a lier = Numbers were never entered.........which apparently means that he is telling the truth now.

[Matt Jones]

Great episode. Long post.

I don't think Henry pressed the button. I think he knows that the Swan hatch is nothing but a big Skinner Box. Did you see the disdain in his face when he told Locke that the place was a joke? I think that the Henry is one of the scientists duped by Dharma or Hanso. Maybe he was a former subject. Also, why would he need to manipulate Locke into not pressing the button? He already accomplished that when Locke was pinned under the door.

What else have we learned about/from Henry? He works for “Him” probably the same Him as Zeke, but not definitely. We learn that Zeke is indeed a henchman rather than the top dog. We learn that the island is invisible unless, I assume, you know where to look. He says he is a “good person” just like Goodwin. (Have the Zeke others ever used that expression?)

Of course we've also learned to take everything Henry says with a grain of salt.

So Hurley was/is a schizophrenic and Libby was in the nuthouse with him. I kind of saw the Dave thing coming since that device has been used in so much in the past few years, but they did a nice job with it. The question it raises though is was Hurley having a relapse, or was the Island screwing with his head? Tapping into his vulnerabilities the way it did with Jack, Boone, Locke, Kate and Sawyer. I also loved how the writers used the, “it’s all in Hurley’s head,” theory to their advantage. I wonder if that was always in the cards or did the fans inspire them. We discussed that Lost is the first show to really use the net to engage fans. I wonder if it also the first show to use the net to get ideas from the fans.

I don’t think Libby is involved with Dharma. I think she is crazy and fixated on Hurley. She knows him from the asylum and probably started stalking him after he won the Lottery. It fits in with the numbers bringing bad luck. You win the Lotto and end up with a psycho stalker. Although, she might have some kind of medical background because she did set the guys leg in “The Other 48 Days.” Of course she could be a shrink and a patient. Psychiatrists can go crazy too. But, she is probably just able to mimic them because she spent so much time around them.

Sawyer’s beatdown was priceless. As was his racist, but funny, line about hiring Sayid to work at his convenience store. I shouldn’t have laughed, but I did. I also thought it was interesting that Jack wasn’t on hand for the dividing of the food. Seems like a control freak like him wouldn’t miss that for the world. Also loved the exchange between Charlie and Sawyer.

What’s Ecko building? I still say a church, but that’s probably too obvious. But then again so was the fact that Dave was in Hurley’s imagination, at least in the flashback. They still executed it well. What I found interesting was that lapsed Catholic Charlie seems to be gravitating towards Ecko.

That’s all I got for now. Still need time to process

Ryan and Dacia,

You try discussing that map for an hour without sounding geeky. Plus, no one who listens to a Lost podcast should call anyone else geeky, especially in a Lost podcast comments section. ☺

As for getting a girl on the cast, do you think we would be doing this if we actually knew how to talk to girls?

[Matt Jones]

Nice call Dwayne. I agreed with you, I just didn't post it. Mostly beacuse the Eastern Conference blows donkeys. Sorry.

[korrinn]

(Ok so i'm a nerd but...)I am sitting here in my computer programming class...and i was obviously not paying attention...but it made me think, maybe "henry" was telling the truth...maybe the computer is really just a front and it is all just an infinite loop where the system is set up to just count down, go through the hieroglifics (sorry about the spelling) and then start over.... or if someone puts in the numbers, then the counter starts over...

also, something really bad couldnt really happen on the entire island if they didnt put the numbers in, because there are obviously other experiments going on on the island, and if something bad were to happen, then all of the work done on the island would be lost...heh...lost...anyway, maybe its just a kind of warning station, like possibly it was set up that the people in the hatch are actually there to continually "check in" with the people who are in charge/funding the research that is going on on the island, and since all of them are kind of unethical, the people in charge wanted to be sure that no one found out and nothing went horribly wrong on the island. Instead of having someone actually call them, or send them like an email, or something, which would probably attract unwanted attention...

sorry about the rambling...i'm not good at writing...

[burnt72]

Ok,

What about the real Henry Gale? Was he an other trying to escape? Or the victim of circumstance.

The writers gave a pretty vivid description of his final time on the island. He said he was going to hike up the hill to create a signal, and yet he ends up with a broken neck in the balloon... And the only person who knows anything about it is the fake Henry Gale.

[Dark Hurley]

The "good" person, "bad" person thing is showing up in almost every episode now. Sawyer and Sayid both commented on how they are not "good" people. I know there have been other examples, too. This is definitely central to the truth behind this season, at least.

Also - I think there will be a "Eureka" moment coming up soon with the "two degrees of separation" every character is experiencing with other characters in their flashbacks. These instances are also showing up in every episode.

[lgd85]

One thing about Libby.

After the kiss and they are waking away from the cliff Hurley askes if she thinks that he really can change and she says yes. Right after that she kind of turns her head and gets this kind of crazy look on her face. It was real quick and I was not real sure but then when they show here in the nut house she has the same look on her face there.

So my opinion is the she is nuts and for whatever reason became fixed on Hurley she then either escaped or was released from the hospital and began stalking Hurley. Which is why she was on the plane.

Also, does anyone remember why Hurley went to Austraila looking for the numbers guy? I think that he just wanted to know where the numbers came from which to me implies that he kind of made his own way onto the flight and to the island, rather than being guided there.

[Joe]

Was Libby Insane when she got on the plane? and did the crash fix her and she become sane again?

[marilynr]

This is probably insignificant, but...did anyone else notice that on the Dharma logo there is a always a swan in the logo....instead of any of the other hatch insignias? So...is that the only hatch which would have supplies...or...?

Great show last night either way. Can't wait to hear this week's podcast!

[Michael Box]

Hey Ryan, thanks for the feedback. About God: There ARE some things He CANNOT do. He cannot sin. I didn't put Him in a box, His ontological nature did. Because of His holiness He cannot be in the presence of evil, He casts it aside and does not look at it. This isn't me just talking here, this is what the Judeo-Christian Bible says. Look, I am not trying to argue this, I am not a typical bible thumping believer. I am very much a non-traditionalist, but i have to think that if Henry is really talking about God, then he must be referring to God's ontology, his nature to not come in contact with sin. That's all brutha.

[lostlaw24]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but could Hurley's doctor be from the University of Michigan, same place where the DeGroot's are from. That could explain why we have the numbers are repeated by Lenny who could formerly be of the island, as well asHurley and Libby being on the Island. They always seem to leave some clue in the flashback, and teh picture of the Island in his office wa way too obvious, but could eb leading to possible a bigger easter egg, such as the degrees on his wall. There were 4 of them, which is one of our numbers, if it were possible to get a screen shot of it really clear, that could help, I don't have the technology however. But we have a lot of incidences with Hurley with the 23 people and Dave stating "see you in another life." Can't wait for net week and the podcast

[mark b]

My rambling thoughts in a somewhat incoherent fashion on what I thought was a great episode:

1. God : Perhaps the Others on the island believe that God is no longer with them because of all the bad stuff that has been happening. Perhaps they think God has deserted them for some reason so bad stuff is happening. A while ago I thought that there were two groups of Others and they were originally one and broke into two because of some experiment that one group wanted to do and the other one didn't. At the time I waxed lyrically that the experiment may have been to prove/disprove the existence of God. There is no way mainstream tv would show the result of such an experiment other than as an 'inconclusive' answer however this does not stop them using it as a theme.

2. Bad Person : just an interesting pointer to the fact the Goodwin and Ethan both referred to themselves as good people and now Henry says he's not a bad person. Clearly the Others think they are good people or at least not bad. A major question is why do they think they are good (or not bad) -- for good to exist there must be bad -- will we be introduced to some people who admit they are 'bad people' -- I think not -- but then what does it mean to be good ? Depends were you stand -- someone/thing could be considered good by some people but could generally be thought of as very bad by most people. Just cause the majority think something/one is good/bad does not make it so.

3. Daves See you in another life comment: another throw away line but clever nonetheless. I hope we see Dave again, I liked him.

4. Henrys Magnet comment -- not sure what to make of that, as far as I'm aware magnets are silent but I guess a electromagnet powering up ready to spin would make noise. But how did Henry know it was a magnet did anyone tell him ? Is this proof he is an Other or just bad writing ?

BTW "Sound of the Magnet" would be a great album name for Geronimo Jackson.

5. Libby: could be anything anyone else has said. Nothing new to add. My personal thoughts are she's a whacko and has locked onto Hurley. Perhaps she does not remember where she's seen him from either but feels a connection to him in a similar way to Hurley not remembering Libby. As for Daves comments about good looking women not getting it on with ugly blokes that's just rubbish. I mean have you looked at couples recently. Man there are some worse mis-matches out there than Libby and Hurley I can tell you.

6. Trailer : some random thoughts, some of which may come from the Canadian trailer which is different to the US one -- very different, shows a lot of Rose and Bernard and more of Locke so may be spoilerish.
Jack and Kate go off to offer to trade Henry for Walt/Michael/Cindy/the other kids taken. It appears they get to the 'line' and Jack at least crosses it (note the rain came again) and get they caught in a net (not 100% sure it's them but it looks like Jack to me) after finding what looked like a doll (initially I thought it was a small child -- it's hard to see, I'm sure this is what springs the trap). The net looked like a Danielle style trap but we are meant to think that it's an Others trap. I'm guessing if it's an Others trap the Others will trade Jack and Kate for Henry.
Henry knows about Walt but how ? In the closing seconds of the trailer Henry looks really odd -- I'd say he's gone whacko. He has a weird smile and looks to be about to do the rock-back-and-forth 'like a loony' deal. Perhaps the whispers some claim can be heard are telling him that it's all going to be OK now as they have Jack and Kate and are going to trade him for them and this is Henrys smug "Now who's got the power" look.
Locke is trying to draw the map but can't -- we are meant to think that he's going to let the counter go to zero so the doors come down and he can see it again. Personally I think he'll let the counter get really close then bottle it and put the numbers in. In the Canadian trailer the clock is at 1:04, in the US one it's 2:15. The Canadian trailer shows Locke looking at the map in the UV light again but I'm sure that is a scene from Lockdown.
It appears that Jack does not know about the disguises Kate found and that Zeke does not have a beard. She better tell him before they take off into the jungle or he'll be peed. But then I think Kate could do almost anything and Jack would forgive her.
Kate apologises for kissing Jack saying "I'm sorry I kissed you" but that could be the start of "I'm sorry I kissed you .... then ran off". It's the running off she's apologising for not the snogging.
Rose and Bernard argue about (I think) setting up some SOS fire/beacon and giving people false hope.

BTW: Odd that Sawyer hasn't called Sayid MacGyver (sp ?) yet.

[korrinn]

ok random question about the map...if the people used bleach, how did they get it to be in different colors?

[Nate]

Eko is deffinitly building a Starbucks.

[Pomegranate]

Cerberus.
The dog's name is Cerberus, pronounced like SIR-brrrr-us. Not Cerebus.
I'm so anal retentive, it's like nails on a chalkboard hearing it wrong! Sorry.
Carry on.

[Matt Jones]

Duly noted Pomegranate. Blame the creators of the Cerebus comic. Their misspelling has scarred me for life.

[BG AKA ChuckNorris]

How did that dude slap him if he isnt real?

[Michael]

I wonder about the actual "painting" of the map as well. You can't use something like bleach on a metal door - it will just run down it. You'd need something thick that will stick to it. But where do you get luminescent paint on the island? Maybe mix bleach with all that ranch dressing...

Another big question I've yet to see anyone else speculate on is why the heck are there blacklights built into the recreation area to begin with? From some wiki research, it seems like the only medical purpose the lights would serve would be for detecting things like bacteria, but the "sickness" is viral, is in not?

[BG AKA ChuckNorris]

Or "love stains" Michael.
But cant blacklight kill bactera? or maybe if something is relesed when the doors come down and the blast doors protect you from something you could see if the stuff is in the room. But only under a black light.

[mark b]

BG AKA ChuckNorris -

Dave can do what he likes. He's Hurleys imaginary 'friend' that Hurley can't control. I don't know what illness Hurley was meant to have had but seeing people that aren't there and talking to them and doing wehat they tell you to is not good.

Dave represents the dark side of Hurley, the side that want's Hurley to self destruct. Hence Dave suggesting Hurley does not take his meds, eats, escapes, kills himself.

[Michael]

I think it takes a *lot* of uv light to kill bacteria - and the lights designed to do so are very harmful to be around without protection, as they cause skin burns and damage your eyes.

[heathen]

The whole Hurley/Dave thing reminded me a lot of the movie "Fight Club" where Brad Pitt's character seemed real until then end when we realized that he was actually not a separate person but a part of Edward Norton's personality. And as I recal, the 2 personalities beat the crap out of each other.

[btamayo]

Hi LostCasts’ers,

I had a few theories after watching the newest episode. A group of people here at where I work always gather the Thursday after to talk up our theories I’ve recommended your podcasts to everyone I know that watches, great job by the way!

Anyways here are a few theories that my friends and I have came up with...

While a few of us were looking around to hope to see Libby in Hurleys conversation with Dave at the mental hospital which we then confirmed her at the end. I was actually looking at they guy who kept speaking the numbers. I know they’ve talked a bit about him, but I don’t really know much about him. Wasn’t he and someone else in a boat or something or were in the military/government expedition? We don’t know much about him, and in the scene we were all so exposed to Dave and Hurley’s conversation, but have we ever seen or heard any type of interaction with him? I couldn’t help but wonder if the man repeating the numbers was the “Henry Gale” character? As Hurley would probably recognize him, Hurley himself as far as I know doesn’t know anything about Henry Gale, because he has been “out of the loop”. The numbers guy has glasses and is all scruffy and sort of resembled the Henry Gale character, but It was hard to tell?

Another thing, Hurley’s accident killed two people? Maybe the reason Libby hasn’t told Hurley about how she was in the mental institute because her husband was one of the people killed in Hurley’s accident and she was in there for depression and maybe sucide watch? She sure looked to have a keen interest in Hurley in the cafeteria! With Hurley experiencing serious mental problems it would be likely of her to expose herself as also having a case of mental history, to comfort him. This would be more likely if she “supposedly” loves him? This could just be a way to get close to him to spike revenge?

She definitely remembers him, but for maybe it could be this reason that she hasn’t told him? There were many more theories, but this was all I had time to type up!

Great podcast!

btamayo
Dallas, TX

[DeNNIS]

ok, i know that some people are on the forums and on here, saying that libby wasent in the mental hospital, but it was her twin or something like that. i just want to inform everyone that this can not be true at all, becuase after watching the epiosde agian when the nurse comes to give her pills, her words are "here you go libby" or something along the lines of that. so this means it had to be libby in the hospital.

Dennis.

[DeNNIS]

Locke: You and you people have been here for god knows how long, and you got caught in a net...
Fake Henry Gale: God dosent know.
Locke: Excuse me?
Fake Henry Gale: God dosent know how long we've been here John............. he cant see this island any better than the rest of the world can..... (blank stare)

y do u think this is?

[goodking]

I bet the blacklights have something to do with the smoke. Perhaps they help to keep the smoke away during lockdown. Or maybe they allow detection of the smoke when it changes form and disappears.

[Isaac]

WOW. I can't believe how great this episode was. And coming after another great episode, oh man! Yeah, maybe some of you could see this Imaginary Dave thing a mile away, but it was told so brilliantly. Amazing directing job.

BTW, do you really think Sayid was going to shoot Fake Henry? Or was he counting on Ana's reaction, thus giving Fake Henry the bad cop/good cop act again? I'm not sure. I think Sayid is really losing it, slowly but surely. Maybe it's part of the trend of the characters returning to their previous behaviours. Also, I think it is pretty obvious by now that Fake Henry clearly sees through acts like these, if it was an act.

[Matt Jones]

I think Sayid and Anna worked out the routine on the way back from the grave. I don't think Sayid is losing it. I think he is the only one that truly gets the situation they are in. Vengance may fuel him, but he is going to exact it with cold calculation. Jack and the rest need to quit being pussies and let Sayid do his thing. Then Fake Henry will belive. Right now he knows that no one is going to let Sayid hurt him.

I think the God can't see this island line was basically Henry's way of saying that the island is a godforsaken place. The real nugget here is that no one else can see the island.

[sam]

ok, most significant line in the epsode "I am not a bad person." BAD PERSON!!!!! Any would he say that. If I were going to be shot, I would have said pleese, no, don't shoot. Not I am not a bad person. Ok, just sayin that.

[Cameron]

I would like to offer a thought on not-Henry-Gale's 'God can't see this island any better than the rest of the world can' remark. I think what he basically saying is that he and his group are pantheists. Pantheists believe – and I will keep this short – that god and the universe are coextensive. There is no deity that is separate from humanity, or physical reality. We are all a part of god. It is not a religion, it is a theological position. It is not the same as atheism, but it does rule out the conventional religious idea of a relationship between God and humanity. There's also a special perspective on what 'good' and 'bad' really are. References to those concepts are now a fixture on Lost, as we have seen.

Anyways, under a pantheist view of things, God is the same as the universe, or if you like ‘the world’. What not-Henry-Gale is remarking on is not the nature of the island, but the nature of God. You can take exactly zero from his comments about how visible or invisible the island is.

As an aside, Gene Roddenberry of Star Trek fame (and born in El Paso, Texas guys!) was a famous pantheist, contributing to pantheism being dubbed (inaccurately) the ‘Star Trek Religion’. My guess is that this is something of a nod from the writers, even though at one time Lindleloff didn't know what a 'Jeffries Tube' was!

So – the island is not hell, there ain’t no cloaking device and not-Henry-Gale was not talking complete baloney, it was just the writers being sneaky yet again.

[Yolanda]

i dont know if someone's already mentioned this or not (i dont have enough time to read through all these posts) but the whole thing with the island being all in Hurley's mind was sort of like the occurence at owl creek bridge thing...
sorry if this is a repeat

[sam]

ok, this is all playing into "Henry Gails" hands. Also, I think that Libby was in the place because she was sick, but because of something special about her.

[scottiedawg]

OK, about it really being Lilly's twin in the hospital. First of, the use of the name Lilly doesn't mean anything. We've seen alot of false names being used thus far. It's not out of the question at all for "lilly" to take on her sister's name. That is just to say it's a lame argument to say the nurse using the name Lilly disproves the twin theory.

What doesn't make sense to me is why we need a twin theory. It's far more interesting to think that this actual Lilly was in the hospital.

And I totally agree that Lilly had a look on her face at the end of the cliff top scene that was a bit freakish. Kind of like Henry Gale's looks at times.

[Jenna]

OK. So we can add Hurley to the list of people on the island who have directly or indirectly, purposely or accidently killed someone. Also, were the numbers with Hurley even before he went to the hospital? He said that the balcony that collapsed and led to hospitalization was built to hold 8 people, but collapsed when there were 23 people on it. Looking forward to the Rose and Bernard-centric episode next week. Jenna

[Krista]

Didn't Sun's English teacher, the guy that she was being set up with before she met Jin, say that he had met an American woman at Harvard who was studying Psychology? Could this have been Lilly?

[riverfr0zen]

The reasoning Libby used to convince Hurley ("Do you know the name of the guy who broke his leg?") reminded me of the Zen Koan "Subjugation of the Ghost". In fact it is almost like, the inverse of that Koan. Check it out:

http://www.ashidakim.com/zenkoans/65thesubjugationofaghost.html

[Mama Cass Rocks]

COMMENT ON LAST WEEK'S PODCAST: Last week was the first Podcast where you guys just totally out geeked me to death. First time ever Dudes, it got painful to listen to. You all had major league woodrows over the map. Balance it out Dudes! WAY too much map analysis. I felt like I was at a Star Trek convntion. Please get back to the regular cool-guy Podcasts you usually have. Whoa!

[smackfu]

Mama_Cass: What? No way! That's the strength of this podcast - the depth into which they go. Don't dilute it by going all Britney Spears on us, guys!

[symbha]

Some lamen science stuff, re: the last podcast:

Heavy Water: Think of this as water made from radioactive hydrogen in the h2o. You hear about it often in (cold) fusion experiements.

Fusion does not produce limitless energy, but it does produce a oodles and oodles of it (when you are fusing together low mass elements.) My understanding is, without the yucky radioactive by products.

Also, in the official podcast, they mention people deciphering vents... does this imply that CV is Cerberus Vent?

In the new episode:
- Don't think this is all in Hurley's head. But I'm thinking Hurley's got a serious imbalance. ;)
- Oh man the mystery of Henry Gale, is he other-expendable? I don't get why he continues to poke at Locke, what is his objective? Overall is his mission to infiltrate the hatch, maintenance, was it an accident, so much deception.
- It's meta-gaming, but it's logical that Zeke really is small potatoes... I think the Zeke/Ethan others are very much operational for whatever is going on by The Man on the island.
- Good Peeps / Bad Peeps, very The Standish.
- Sawyer needed a good ass kicking.
- I do not think Henry pressed the button. I think that has slow acting consequences.

more if I can think of it...

[korrinn]

ok....if you take the time to download the podcast and post...you MUST accept that you too are a geek/nerd....so no calling other people nerds....its just not nice

[Scott]

I was thinking about what we saw in the hatch last week, when the lockdown occured. It occurred to me that maybe we've seen lockdowns before. Remember a long time ago, when Locke was still trying to get into the hatch? One night, when he was really sad, a bright beam of light shot out the hatch window. Remeber when Kate was on her first trip down into the hatch? Another beam of light happened. I wonder if the light beam is what happens when the numbers don't get pushed. Also, I wonder if it coincides with the death of one person on the island. Just a thought.

[Christine @ MIT]

There was an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer with almost the same premise as "Dave". I cant remember which one exactly, but she was in a mental institution and the doctors were convincing her that the entire show, city, characters were all in her mind and then tried to get her to kill all of her friends rather than herself.
PS The geekier the podcasts, the better!

[stop with the geek crap]

STOP CLUTTERING UP THE COMMENT SECTION WITH THIS STUPID GEEK CRAP.... a geek is someone who likes something more than most people... so if you like lost enough to take the time out your day to go onto a lost forum site or listen to a lost podcast YOU ARE A LOST GEEK... and there isnt anything wrong with liking something on a geek level... so please let this be the last comment that talks about geeks, and get back to talking about lost.

[smokem]

I thought this episode was awesome cause someone finally gave Sawyer what he deserved, and who better than Hurley to do it.

I dont think anyone has mentioned it but when Sayid was about to shoot fake Henry, Henry shouted "Im not a bad person".

Just because Libby was at the same nut house doesnt mean she is a stalker, most stalkers would be calling and sending e-mails and givig creepy gifts. but Libby hasnt contacted Hurley at all, there is definately more to this story.

two side notes: 1. I hope fake Henry's, God cant see the island statement, doesnt put the purgatory-ites into a frenzy, and 2. I agree no more geek comments last weeks podcast was fine, keep it up guys.

[mcfarlandclan]

It's a church! At least according to the ABC diary. Still can't figure out who's writing the diary though...

[Ryan and Dacia]

RiverFrozen - GREAT LINK!!!

[Sandro in Walnut Creek, CA]

Luminol instead of UV lights?

Could the Black light, or the UV light be in fact Luminol, used by FBI to detect Blood and Organic Material (sperm, for istance)?

That could be more interesting, given the interest Dharma seems to have on human reproduction, etc.

Just a though, don't have time to research the net now.

[Ryan and Dacia]

Wow!

OK - THe geeky comments were never meant to sound like that. Dacia calls me a geek all the time - and it's ok!

All we were saying is that there is a certain number... when the number of male geeks get in the same room they start getting geekier and geekier. Myself included!!!

My point should have been clear when I said that you should go back to the two main guys. When it's just the two of you there are never any awkward giggles and snorts and the work "chick," is never said.

Also, i think someone defined nerd - not geek. A nerd is omeone who likes one specific thing so much that it interferes with their social interaction.

In that case as my slashdot and newsvine accounts state: I am a mountaingoats(the band) nerd, a nintendo nerd, film nerd, etc...

I guess what I am saying is - don't take offense, the crit is coming from a fellow nerd.

And in the case of my wife (www.daciaray.com) I think she meant the show gets too boyish when she said geeky. Though, you should know she's the one that had a comment read on the air!

Anyway, sorry if I offended. I didn't mean to.

[Ryan and Dacia]

By the way - i just got back from a nyc siggraph event titled: acting for animators which shows my geekyness and explains my really bad typing/spelling as it's late here!

[Sawyer got JACKED!!!]

WOW, the God statement Henry made has opened the flood gates for religious arguments.

[smokem]

Here are the dave there and dave not ther pics....

dave there
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=1033&pos=299

dave not there

[smokem]

sorry accidently hit post...

dave not there
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=1033&pos=442

[Andrew]

Overall I thought "Dave" a mediocre episope, with several exceptions.
First, my reason for feeling it was mediocre: the "Dave" thing, as has previously been mentioned, was totally obvious. How many times have we seen that device recently ("Fight Club", "Identity," someone mentioned an ep. of "Buffy", ad nauseum). Also, the whole "feel-sorry-for-the-fat-guy" thing felt a little contrived. I mean, 60% of Americans are overweight or obese; does that still affect us? Perhaps it does more now because more of us are fat. I digress.
Despite its shortcomings, "Dave" did deliver, and showed that the LOST writers are finally willing to give us more than tiny nuggets one episope at a time. Now we're getting two or three big nuggets every episode. It's a step in the right direction.
Like most everyone else here, I want more Henry-not-Henry. What a well-written and well-acted character.
As for the Libby/Hurley connection, I congratulate those of you who suggested that Libby was not a clinical psychologist as she claims, but had been an in-patient with Hurley (though she still, as Matt Jones pointed out, could be a clinical psych., just one who struggled with some mental illness of her own).
A few side notes: I'm with Matt on the "God-doesn't-know-we're-here" thing. With the exception of the Eko episode and the stomach-turning baptism scene, LOST hasn't ventured into religious territory (thank Vishnu/Krishna/Odin/Thor/Caesar/Zeus or god of your choice). I think those of you focusing on the God comment are missing the meat of the quote: the rest of the world can't see the island. Sure, we've suspected it, but that pretty much confirms it.
As for the accusations of "geekdom" on the part of the podcasters, it's already been said, but it bears repeating: if you listen to a fan-made talk show about a freakin' TELEVISION show, you're a geek. If you visit fan-sites about a freakin' TELEVISION show, you're a geek. If you post messages on said web-site's message boards, guess what? You are a first-class geek (apologies to Jeff Foxworthy).

[KOOB]

I don't know if anyone else feels the same but..... My eyes hurt when trying to read these comments!

[Ryan and Dacia]

Hmmm... i guess you didn't read any of the posts after the first few Andrew.

I already explained my comments.

[Isaac]

Ryan, I hope you mean the THREE main guys of the show. If Robert is out, this podcast would be much less interesting for me. The guy is sharp.

And yes, they are sometimes boyish, and use the word "chick". How awful... I really thought this PC stuff is dead by now. If they start using "proffesional" presentation and script their show so they won't offend anyone, well... that would be a sad day. The whole point is this atmosphere of a bunch of guys just sitting together and discussing their favorite show. Just like me and my friends do.

Alright, rant mode off.

[wuddlewaura]

Does anyone notice that in the "Dave there" picture there is a guy in the back and in the "Dave not there" picture he is not? Just an observation.
BTW, first time posting a comment and i absolutely LOVE the podcast. I actually really enjoyed the map commentary last week. It gave me a lot of insight. Keep up the great work!

[Todd]

Did anyone notice that in Dave's parting comment to Hurley, he even had a Desmond-like accent much different that the rest of his speaking?

[Matt Jones]

Ryan,

Don't sweat it man. I didn't take it personal and I doubt any of the other guys did either. My response was meant to be good natured and sarcastic. That doesn't always translate in print. That's why I added the fey little smiley face. Rest assured that the Lostcast crew, regulars and guests, are fully aware of our geek status. We revel in it. And without the rest of you geeks listening in and commenting this cast would be nothing?

Tell Dacia we would love to have a girl on the show. Unfortunately, even though our wives and girlfriends are big fans of LOST, they are not geeks and don't want to watch us let our geek flags fly.

Interesting side note, originally a "geek" was a side show attraction that bit the heads off of live animals and ate weird stuff for shock and amusement of the rubes. I have no idea how the term became synonymous with a hyper-involved fan of something.

Off topic, every time I read "Dave's not there" all I can think of is Cheech and Chong.

Dave’s not home man!

I'm sorry. That was really geeky.

[Matt Jones]

"And without the rest of you geeks listening in and commenting this cast would be nothing?"

I have no idea why I used a question mark. I'm definitely not a punctuation geek.

[Conrad from Pennsylvania]

Maybe I'm a latecommer here but I just noticed that it said "widmore labs" on the cockpit to the ballon Henry Gale said he came from. You can see a picture on lostmedia.net.
peace,
Conrad

[heathen]

Another "numbers sighting": Hurley's therapist mentioned that the deck was only supposed to hold 8 people but there were 23 on the deck when Hurley walked onto it.

Probably just a nod to obsessive fans who look for every little thing...like me!

[Grendal]

What if Number Guy in the Hospital and Libby both were involved in the experiment and where on the Island when the accident happened?

If so how's this-She recovers and goes back to Dharma which forwards the experiment through the plane "accident". We then have muliple employees of Dharma involved in the experiment on the Island interspersed in the Group. Maybe some know wach other maybe not.

Yeah big leap.

[ruwhour]

hey all:

don't think this has been mentioned:

over on the 'official' abc recap of 'dave' it says that eko told charlie he was building a church!?

am i oblivious to this event having occured or did a scene get cut or what?!?!

definitely something to talk about.

[ruwhour]

also...

i guess the on-line diary also says that eko is building a church & charlie is helping him.

when did this become a source of reliable and necessary (because this is kinda an important bit to know) information?

heck, as noted by many, the producers pretty much made fun of the first season diary. i am now officially lost!

[first timer]

Okay, I can't believe no one has said this before.

The Other, who calls himself Henry Gale, DOES NOT HAVE ANY EYEBROWS. I think this is part of what makes him so incredibly creepy looking, but also raises some interesting questions that are staring us in the face, if you will. I noticed this conspicuous eyebrows especially when Ana Lucia asked him, in Lockdown, why he didn't have a beard.

So, science experiment? genetic engineering? side effect of serum? previous cancer patient?

Also, Libby clearly had some collagen injections into her lips. She's beginning to look a little plastic.

[John D.]

Don’t worry about the punctuation mistake man. From a person that never gets involved in the posting but just sits back and admires the evolving piece of literature from afar, props to the writing skills of Matt Jones. This guy knows how to convey an idea. And not just in writing. You guys also do a great job of communicating ideas on the podcast. I admire the ability of you people to set a nice pace and run with it so smoothly. Keep it up, and know there are many of us listening to you people and respecting your ideas from the distance, refusing to become fully engulfed in the “geekdom.”

[Matt Jones]

I appreciate the compliment John D, but be careful. Geekism is contagious. Sure you're just loitering on the fringes now, but in a few years you'll be wearing a Zeke beard while standing in line at the Omaha Airport Marriot waiting for Dr. Artz to sign your Geronimo Jackson album.

Get out while you can!

[Matt, just Matt]

WHOA!!! Did any of you guys notice this?!!
Speculate away! Connect Henry Gale (the real or fake one) with Windore Labs! Real or Fake Gale, there DEFINATELY is a connection!!

For those who are not aware, the LOST writers have begin to slip another background player into the LOST uiniverse: Widmore Industries. In "Fire+Water" a Widmore Construction company poster was seen, in "The Whole Truth" it was Widmore Labs who produced the the pregnancy test that heralded Sun and Jin's miracle baby. New promo pics from LockDown reveal yet another Widmore connection, which incidently was NOT visible in the episode itself. Click the pic for a larger view, near the bottom of the tanks you can see the "Widmore Labs" logo. So was the original Henry a Widmore employee?

Courtesy of The Tail Section
http://www.thetailsection.com/uploaded_images/lockdown-promo06-727388.jpg

[Kate]

First timer,
I think the reason fake Henry has no eyebrows is something to have to do with the torture Sayid put him through. idk his tactics or what he did, we'd have to look at screencaps of him before the torturing to make sure. This is an option but it seems simple for Lost. then again, you never know.

[Matt Jones]

Maybe Widmore built and supplies Dharma's island facilties.

Or even cooler, what if there is some kind of Hanso Group vs Widmore feud?

What if Widmore crashed 815 on the Island to screw up Dharma/Hanso's scene?

Maybe the reason all the Losties are connected is that they are all Dharma test subjects Widmore tracked down.

[mark b]

Meanwhile back at Geeks Anonymous ....

Hello my name is Mark B
I am a LOST geek

Admiting the problem is a big step.

[Matt Jones]

Maybe the Real Henry Gale was an infiltrator from Widmore Labs.

Maybe that's why he's in the ground with a broken neck.

[LostHSV]

Details...details!

Did anyone notice the emphasis on the doctor's keys (the doc in the psych ward)? They were pictured twice in the DAVE episode. It seems that his key chain had the same shaped thingy as Ethan's in the pregnancy exam scene a few episodes back. Ethans key clearly had a Dharma symbol on them. Can anyone get a screen shot comparison of the two sets of keys?

Also, there was some sort of white label on the camera that the doc was using (maybe Widmore? Dharma? Hanso?,etc). Did anyone else notice this?

[Geek-luva]

Just because the nurse calls Libby "Libby" doesn't necessarily mean that is her name. Hurley's Dr. goes along with the Dave thing by taking a picture of the "two" of them. Maybe the patient just wants to be called Libby for some CRAZY reason.

[Dwayne Wade@MIT]

That's my boy Matt Jones! Thanks for the love. And yes, the Eastern Conference does suck.

Oh, and by the way, I take back my comment about none of the chicks on LOST being hot. After seeing the Sun backstory, damn! And yes, it is going out on a limb, but I agree with the guy a few episodes back that said Sun's baby is Charlie's.

War Matt Jones returning to the podcast.
War Kobe for MVP.
War Suns over the Heat in 4.

[Dwayne Wade@MIT]

That's my boy Matt Jones! Thanks for the love. And yes, the Eastern Conference does suck.

Oh, and by the way, I take back my comment about none of the chicks on LOST being hot. After seeing the Sun backstory, damn! And yes, it is going out on a limb, but I agree with the guy a few episodes back that said Sun's baby is Charlie's.

War Matt Jones returning to the podcast.
War Kobe for MVP.
War Suns over the Heat in 4.

[Ryan]

Lol Issac. I never wanted them to be PC. Man, if you look at my original comment vs the feedback from it you would think they are two seperate topics.

Look, just like sports shows and any talk radio there is a certain breaking point where the show becomes less effective. If you add 7th person are you really going to get more insight? Or just more noise? In radio it is hard enough to tell who the heck is talking at any given time.

Come on, you all KNOW that third announcer during football games is not needed. :)

Add that to the fact that WE are all geeks and it makes it worse. It just goes into chatter rather then on point.

I don't know, maybe keeping it to one guest above the THREE regulars might have been a better suggestion then adding a woman to the show. Though a woman would probably balance things out a bit :)

This could also have something to do with Keeler not being around. He does an excellent job of keeping the show moving at an interesting pace and keeping the topic on point. He also tends to translate what some of the other guys on the show are saying.

So, maybe take this as a compliment to the regular crew rather then a needle at you guys.

Keep it up!!!

[Matt Jones]

I would agree Ryan. Not only does John bring a lot of insightful theories and observations to the table, he does a great job moderating the discussion. The cast is definitely tighter when he's riding herd.

Krista,

I was just reading back through the posts and caught your Mr. Clean/Libby connection. I like it. Maybe Libby was all whacked out because Mr. Clean dumped her. Or Mr. Clean dumped her because she was crazy.

[BLinder]

Honestly, last weeks podcast was different because of the map. That map was the "4th host" on the show. A total one hour extra detour around that densely annotated thing. It wore me out. Towards the end of recording I was like "what the hell was I just saying for 45 minutes." But I went back through it later inthe week (had to take a break) and it only went wonky a couple times. But it totally changed the format of the cast. No doubt.