Get Ready: ?

Wow... talk about a great episode of LOST last night, "?." I could get used to this idea of having a new LOST episode every week. There will be a lot to talk about this weekend. Got any thoughts on what this new hatch means? Speculation about Michael? Will Hurley beat him into a bloody pulp?????????

We'll be podcasting this weekend, so send us your thoughts by posting them here, sending us an email, or calling our automated audio comment voicemail at 206-666-2278.

Comments

[Black Eyed Dog]

The poor condition of the "new" hatch leads me to believe that there are definitely no more official Hanso/Dharma experiments going on--it's the central hatch, according to the black-light door map, built to observe the subjects in the outlying hatches...and it's obviously been abandoned for quite a while.

Which leads to the following questions:

1) Why, then, does Dharma/Hanso still deliver food? Are the administrators back in the real world under the impression the experiments are still going on?

2) The Others--assuming they are only one group--are the "fruits" of the experiments--maybe they revolted, or maybe they just decided to take over the island to pursue [WHATEVER THEY'RE UP TO] without informing officials at Dharma/Hanso.

(This is all assuming the original Dharma/Hanso project was well-intentioned.

Thanks--I listen every week!

[Teh Major]

First post??? Great episode last nite, I'll give it a 9. Why was the orientaion "film" on a vhs tape and the other was on 16mm? Where do those tubes go? I think Locke was folllowing a role he doesn't know he has yet by sending his drawing in those tubes. He made an observation, made note of it and sent it. And what is up with that girl that came back to life? Is she possibly an offspring of a DHARMA experiment, i.e. that phsychic that told Claire to keep her baby?!! And i def think that Eko has tapped into the soul of the island somehow. I'm so glad he didnt really die falling off of that cliff. More ? than answers. Great podcast, thanks for all you do, stay L O S T

[smokem]

this site has updated...

http://www.oceanicairlines.com/

[Cameron]

Guys - if ever we need Matt Jones, now is the time!!

The big question for me is whether Locke's speech to Eko was the truth, or just an act for the benefit of the camera in the Pearl hatch?

Does Locke retain faith in a sense of purpose that is more directly related to the island as a special place, rather than as a player in the Dharma Initiative's pseudo scientific nonsense experiments?

Man if I had invested serious $$$ in that outfit and saw that last tape I would be mightily pissed, but I guess someone is still inking the cheques (checks) for the food drops, so who can tell what is up with that.

Anyway, Locke wanted a connection with the earth in Walkabout, and we have recently had big clues about the importance of place over people with respect to Uluru. I'm still on board with Locke's faith and sense of purpose being in tact.

Matt's insight into what drives Locke has been critical before - I'd really like to get his take on this.

[PedroPericles]

Does everyone else remember when our voice of reason, Ana Lucia, told the Lostees that they were getting way too comfortable with their surroundings?

Our characters continue to do stupid, out of character stuff. John putting his drawing in the tube was just stupid. The old John would have been conscious of every move he made and would never give away his position or knowledge so recklessly.

Also, what about the camera that was in the ? hatch. Wouldn't you want to cover that up in case Big Brother was watching you?

Finally, I have to say that the only thing interesting about the Libby/Michael plotline was whether she would speak her final clue this episode or the next.

I thought it was an average episode though it confirmed that Eko doesn't get enough air time.

Stay LOST.

[whooptydoo]

I think that the pearl hatch is just another experiment. Why would they have a camera in the pearl watching the guys who are observing the other hatches. Plus why would Dharma want random people observing their experiments, wouldnt they want their scientist doing it? This was definately an episode worth watching again.

[Amy]

Hey guys! Love the podcast, and LOVED this episode.

So, back to where the ? came from... go back to your screenshots of the real hatch glow map.

I remember "The Pearl" being words written on the map, on the right hand side. I thought there was speculation about that being the name of Desmond's boat since it appeared to be on the edge of the island.

Now that we know the Pearl is really the hatch under the ?, what does that mean for what the map drawer knew?

My thought is that the map writer heard talkings of "The Pearl" and never knew what/where it was. So he wrote that note down on the map but didn't label it anywhere in particular.

If you saw the pearl logo, it looks blank (just a white circle). If someone ever saw this, it could appear blank until you know its named the Pearl and get the white circle. If something is blank, it is "?"

Perhaps the map drawer knew about the ? in the ground and was unaware of the full hatch below? Otherwise, he would have labeled the center hatch "The Pearl" on the map.

Hmmm.

[biolite]

Well I got the implication that the pearl hatch WAS indeed another experiment. It's a tiered experiment. You have people working on mindless tasks thinking they're doing something important (ie Desmond/swan hatch) then you have a different group monitering those other groups (ie Pearl Hatch), finally all the data is ultimatly sent to the very top for analysis through the tubes. The camera in the pearl was probably their to moniter the 2nd tier of the experiment.

Good episode though. Another nibble into the lost mythology. I was hoping the pearl would have a recording of Michael shooting AL and Libby. I really don't want to see the Losties walk into a trap.

I was somewhat suprised Libby went this episode. Will Hurley ever find out the truth??

Most interesting though, was the revelations about the psychic. He's a fake! Or so he says. More fuel to the theory that he was paid by Dharma to get Claire onto Flight 815. I suppose it's always possible that when reading claire he ACTUALLY recieved a vision, even though he'd made a career of faking visions. Who knows with lost ;)

[Dan]

I don't think that the pearl hatch was under the ? I think Eko even said it, that the image made on the ground was more of a bullseye, not a question mark.

[Dark_thommy]

I am wondering why the pearl-station is indicated on the map as a question mark. Clearly the person who drew the map has lots of information about dharma initiative, being able to identify a structure of hatches on the island. And the maker of the map must have been on top of the cliff to identify the question mark.

Or the maker of the map, identified that place where the drug plane is now, is the centre hatch and created a "?" sign themself. But why would you make the effort of making a question mark, instead of finding the opening in 10 centimeters of dirt?

So i am a little confused why the question mark is there, and who made it... maybe you guys can speculate on that one?

[dark_thommy]

yeah edit above comment, it is not a question mark in the hatch but indeed more of a bull-eye... so that takes some mystery away

[Chris]

Was it just me, or did it appear that the guy in the orientation film had his left arm this time?

[whooptydoo]

no, the dirt where someone has spread something so the grass wont grow makes the top part of the question mark and the hatch door makes the dot.
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[smokem]

Maybe the ? on the map IS the pearl hatch, but whoever drew the map didnt know what to call it because the symbol for the pearl is just that blank spot

[Nathan T-Smith]

Hey guys, so we found out this week that our Losties are part of an experiment. Just a thought that maybe this is exactly what the hanso foundation want them to think, and thats why they found the pearl hatch. Maybe their dreams were not their own and just planted in their mind by the Hanso foundation in whatever way. I just feel that everything that they have discovered to this point was not of their own doing. Either they dream it or somebody or something leads them to it. Much like the white rabbit episode where jack is lead to the caves by his dad. I dont think the hanso foundation are that stupid to let them discover all what they have discovered if they didnt want them to. The episode to me also suggests that other people have been there before them, much like what you discover at the end of the second matrix film. Would love to know what you guys think of my comments. Just another note to say you should definatly do some podcasts over the summer, maybe choose a book from lost each and have a bookcast. Keep up the good work Ill be listening. Peace out Nathan from the UK.

[West Syiad]

Maybe it is just me, but I'm really starting to notice some weird timeline inconsistencies. Like when Michael came out of the hatch it was night time, but Libby had just come in no more than 1/2hr before carrying blankets for the picnic and it was obviously day when she left the beach for the hatch. The same thing with Jack, Kate, John and Sawyer on their way back to the hatch. Also when Eko and John were out walking at first Eko had a (fire) torch, but when he was looking at the map he had a battery flashlight.

Also, last week Fake Henry told Anna that she had killed two of their people, but I only remember her killing Goodwin and Shannon... Hmmmmm...

Kicking the West Syiad...

[Bryan]

OK, first of all I would just like to say that this episode finally showed us two people debating over some logic for once. One guy thinks it's all an experiment and the other points out that it could not be just a coincidence that both he and his brother crash land on the same island. Previously we did'nt really see people aruguing and backing up their theories it was just "I have a hunch it's this..." "NO, your wrong, this is how it is...". ala' Jack and Locke. I hope to see more conversations between Lock and Eco where they try to deduce what is going on just the way that we do.

I would like to comment on what biolight said, I think they are spot on with the comment about the pearl being an experiment itself. We have all probably heard about the experiment where they put a guy in a room and then a collage student was told to shock them from outside the room everytime they got a question wrong to see if they would just do what they were told or if they would rebel and refuse to torture somone. I am sure there is a wiki on that or websight you guys could link up.

I think the phsyic is absolutly a real phsycic the reason he went out there and told Eco that story was to get him away. It was very desperate, why would somone risk there livleyhood. He had to make up that story to protect the truth.

Lastly, My tivo did not record past 10 pm so I missed the end of the episode right when hurley asked if he could talk to libby. I can try and see it on the abc websight but I am mostly upset that I missed "Next time on lost" can anyone link a place where they make that availble on the web?

To the Podcasters:

I do not remember you guys continuing to go over the lost diary and its newest page on abc.com it talks about a Steven, If you have I apologize, but if you have not I hope we can cover that.

Also on the fake airline sight there is a seating chart that brings up all kinds of weird stuff especially when you click on Locke (I jumped out of my seat). I don't know if this feature is very old but I would like to know what you all think.

off to work i go...

[Chris in Jackson, MS]

I don't remember coming away from an episode as confused as I did last night. Definitely need to watch again. Couple of points.

1) ?/Pearl Hatch- center of confusion for me. Is it really the ? hatch drawn on the blast door map. Or is the Pearl Hatch just another hatch? My heart says not the ? mark hatch but my mind says yes, based on the location (Ecko led them based on John's map) and the question mark etched onto the ground. I was convinced that the ? hatch would basically hold all clues to the island and would not be revealed until season 6 or so. I'm pretty sure now that what we saw was the ? hatch.

2) Nature of the Pearl Station- this is really where I want to go back and re-watch , including the new orientation video. Definitely looked abandoned, but also much more dusty looking and untouched-looking than any of the other hatches we've seen so far. Then again, nothing on this island is as it seems. We know there is more to this island than just a bunch of innocent experiments in the name of science. Ol' smoky is proof of that.

3) I think that either the Pearl was originally designed to monitor the other experiments, which were also "just" experiments originally until something happened to turn the island to the dark side, OR, that something sinister was always at work and the Pearl hatch residents were just led to believe that they're monitoring benign experiments.

4) Numbers and button- was it just me or did it seem like based on the print log, that different number combinations were used at different times. Maybe originally it was all just an experiment and it didn't matter what numbers were put in, as long as something was put in. At the end, it seemed like Michael was waiting for the counter to go down without entering the numbers. I'm starting to believe that the "others" do not want the numbers entered for some reason.

Well, I'm rambling now as my thoughts are all over the place. In true Lost fashion though, last night's epi created WAY more questions than it did answers. There's more to the Swan hatch than meets the eye. Things are not what they seem. Damon and Carlton are on record as saying that if the numbers and button were just an experiment, that they'd be pretty disappointed with that if they were a viewer.

[Courtney]

So I'm sad Libby's dead but I think we'll continue to see her in flashbacks....
As for the Pearl...
I think that it's definately possible that it in itself was also an experiment. However, working in science, I also think it's possible that it served a dual purpose of not only being an experiment, but of helping to serve as a fail-safe should the people in the Swan station become careless, etc. By haveing two people who spend all their time observing the workers in the swan, DHARMA can spend time doing other things. The advantage of the pearl hatch is that there itsn't much room for distractions, etc. If the actual DHARMA leaders were to have people remotely viewing the swan, then they could potentially become distracted by other things in the real world. I believe that used the "Pearl reports" to keep a close eye on the happenings in the Swan. Why would they do this..... Well, I speculate that Eko is right and the that button really is important. That would explain why the people in the pearl watched the swan station instead of other stations. It would also explain the need for attention to detail- you woulndn't want the folks in the swan to be leaving and risk missing the timer, etc.-, and finally, it would explain why the reports were sent in every 8 hrs at the end of each shift. If it wasn't important to make sure the button was being pushed, then it's likely that the data would have been compiled for a longer period of time before it was sent in and analyzed. Just some speculation....

[Courtney]

So I'm sad Libby's dead but I think we'll continue to see her in flashbacks....
As for the Pearl...
I think that it's definately possible that it in itself was also an experiment. However, working in science, I also think it's possible that it served a dual purpose of not only being an experiment, but of helping to serve as a fail-safe should the people in the Swan station become careless, etc. By haveing two people who spend all their time observing the workers in the swan, DHARMA can spend time doing other things. The advantage of the pearl hatch is that there itsn't much room for distractions, etc. If the actual DHARMA leaders were to have people remotely viewing the swan from headquarters, then they could potentially become distracted by other things in the real world. I believe that they used the "Pearl reports" to keep a close eye on the happenings in the Swan. Why would they do this..... Well, I speculate that Eko is right and the that button really is important. That would explain why the people in the pearl watched the swan station instead of other stations. It would also explain the need for attention to detail- you wouldn't want the folks in the swan to start acting carelessly and risk missing the timer, etc.- and finally, it would explain why the reports were sent in every 8 hrs (at the end of each shift). If it wasn't important to make sure the button was being pushed, then it's likely that the data would have been compiled for a longer period of time before it was sent in and analyzed. It wouldn't be important for the people in the pearl to know what was going on in the swan. It would actually be beneficial to use the guise that the task in the swan is unimportant. If you told the guys in the pearl that if the folks in the swan don't push their button then the whole island could explode, etc. then the guys in the pearl probably wouldn't do a very good job of watching the swan people, they would probably be more concerned with finding a way off the island or trying to find the button themselves to make sure it got pushed. Just some speculation....

[Courtney]

sorry for the double post... the second one is the one I intended to post.

[xandra]

Hey guys,I just wanted to thank you for great podcasts and let you know that we listen to you here in Poland as well:)Greetings from Warsaw!

[So]

I believe the reason fo thete question mark has been answered. The question is what's going on in each hatch. Go to the pearl hatch and watch the monitors. Then the ? is answered.

[AB]

Check out http://blogs.abc.com/inside_the_experience/

There is a link to it on the official LOST website

[Bill Hess]

I freeze-framed on the observer desk in the hatch. In addition to the cigarrette butt, I noticed that it looked like there was heroin on the desk as well.

[Katerina]

What if the Swan station was used as a screening station for people? Here people would stay 6 months (can't remember what the cycle was supposed to be) and Dharma could monitor their devotion to them by doing something with an unknown effect. If you think of Dharma like some sort of cult, you could see the posting at Swan station as some sort of initiation to see if a person can be brainwashed and follow orders.

Also, in the "?" orientation video it said that after an 8 hour shift people were to go to the docks to get a ride back to the barracks? So are we assuming here that there is another island near by that is much more settled as serves more as a headquarters?

Do you think our Losties will ever follow the pneumatic message line to see where it goes? I guess the manpower needed for that would be too much.

Also, does anyone wonder why the smoke monster has not made an appearance? Is it under the control of Zeke and his group? As in their first confrontation where they held Kate Zeke said that they have been leaving them alone. It seems so because at first when Fligh 815 crashed it made an appearance much more frequently.

[WeakLemonDrink]

1) What a brilliant episode. I totally agree with anyone saying that The Pearl is certainly an experiment within an experiment, so I'll be fascinated to find out more about that.

2) I very much doubt there'll be a record of Michael shooting Ana and Libby, though. For one, it seems like only one of the Swan's monitoring cameras are operational (I reckon the Pearl's only purpose is to monitor the Swan, nothing else, since The Arrow and Staff are clearly not experimental stations) and also there'll certainly not be enough tape to continuously record for 20+ years. What's more, the Orientation film didn't mention anything about archiving or sending through recordings.

3) Is anyone else confused why the big circle didn't actually have the hatch within it? The hatch was actually well *below* the circle, under the plane. Odd, that. Maybe the target was for the purpose of food drops?

4) The continuity really bugged me this episode, though. Unless Michael was lying about the time frame, and Jack and co. are SERIOUSLY slow walkers, then it got dark pretty damn fast.

5) Finally, here's a suggestion for something to do over the summer (love the BookCast idea, by the way): you could record your own episode commentaries! Firstly, it'll give you and us the chance to re-evaluate the whole season with the benefit of hindsight, and I bet you that you'll find stuff you've never noticed before! It could be fascinating to listen to.

6) And finally, finally: here's an off topic question for the Cast, just in case you run out of things to talk about (ha!). Are you currently watching the new series of Doctor Who on Sci-fi (or, indeed, from Torrents), and, if so, how do you view fast pace of Doctor Who and its ultra quick exposition in relation to a slow burner like Lost? Personally, I love both series, but, as a Brit, I will be interested to hear what you think of my beloved Who.

Stay L O S T, and all that.

[Mrs. Hurley]

Couple of thoughts.

First lets say Bryan is right and the psychic is real. If that were true maybe he fought to keep Eko from investigating so Eko would be on the crash. Because if he had continued with the investigation he would've had to pospone his trip for more time and wouldn't have been in the oceanic flight... Or maybe Dharma payed him double?

Second, based on the "next time on lost" scenes and taking into account the whole girl drowning and coming back to life... Couldn't Libby come back to life on the next episode? There is this scene on the "next time on lost" where they are all looking at something and someone says something like "it's a miracle"... I really really cant see them getting rid of Libby so soon. They cant, she's not finished with her story, there hasnt even been a proper flashback for her... If Libby comes back to life, I reckon that only those who have been redeemed or changed (Boone got over Shannon, Shannon stopped being a bitch, Ana Lucia decided not to kill) can truly die. Those who are still looking for their path can't die... though Libby could have changed or whatever and we just don't know it cause there hasn't been a flashback yet!!!/rant's over

Anyway, great episode, can't wait for the podcast... oh! and guys I agree with Nathan during summer some of the books referenced in the series can be discussed more in detail if you fancy. There's also the Lost Experience (really cool, but I'm already lost, too much has happened and cant keep up) and what you had mentioned about maybe going back to the first season and discussing the most important things that happened... how they connected to the second season... and then a summary of the series so far, what has been answered and what still mistery. or something along those lines.

And before i go... I think the pearl hatch is not the central hatch... where those tube with the notebooks go, that would be the central hatch or command center... though not necesarily in the center of the island.

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

The writers have said that anyone who dies on the island stays dead, but they also said Arnz would play a big role in season 2 just so his death was more shocking.

I loved last night's episode. I think the psychic was telling the truth and I think that Eko got played by the daughter the same way Claire was played by the psychic. Dharma wanted them both on the plane.

I still stand by my belief that the plane was filled with good test subjects and crashed intentionally. I think the "good" people were the people intentionally put on the plane, but the islanders don't know which is which so that's why they need the list. I think the pilot was in on it and not dead. It was all staged so they wouldn't investigate the front of the plane any further. That's just my theory.

[raj]

BRILLIANT!!! TOP NOTCH

First, i think we got proof that Libby was on the plane, pity she also died.

Secondly, I beleive that Dr. Waxman and Dr. Candle are twins. This is shown by Dr. Waxman (Doctor from 'Pearl" video) using both hands, while Dr. Candle couldn't use his left. Also twins has appeared twice in the Lost Series. Firstly, the novel just released is called: "Bad Twin". Secondly, in the first season Clare asks Kate if shes a Gemeni (The Symobol for the Twins)

Third, We still don't know if the swan hatch is a skinner box. Dr. Waxman did NOT give any details. although, most signs look like the Button is useless.

Fourth, the irony that the post-orientation chat is similar to that at the begining of the season where Locke now takes Jack's Pessimest view.

Fifth, I think that the tubes go to the other island where there is a ferry to take them there.

Also, i got one or two other things to say. but they are spoiler-ish so u should be getting my email soon.

Stay Lost

[Bryan]

OMG
Mrs. Hurley you just gave me an idea. What if the heroin is connected with Dharma and is part of the extension project. What if the fact that they injected her with it brings her back in the next episode?

NM... thats just silly.

In the pearl they would not have video taped the survalence because they were supposed to use the choclate chip high school journel books to record observations.

I still don't see the logic of telling people your a con artist (regaurding the psychic) it seemed so illogical when I first saw it. Once I theorized that he was just lying to keep anyone from investigating his family. I would not rule out the whole idea of directing people to the plane and knowing it will crash there as outlandish as that is.

[Mr_Hurley's Food Stash]

To back up what Mrs. Hurley has posted.

To me again it seems like the Psychic has now got someone else to make that flight (like Claire). Eko made that flight because the Psychic said it wasn't real, that nothing happened in a miracle sense and he should leave them alone (so he was free to leave). If he is a real Psychic, then isn't it possible his daughter has some of his skills? Maybe that’s how she had the vision? Again the theme of children seems to surface again in Lost. Maybe she didn't drown? However, the noise she made on that tape during the autopsy was quite scary/distorted and maybe something was hidden in that tape? Any sound engineers looking at it like the whispers?? I can’t remember in that episode, but I don’t think it’s mentioned to them (Psychic or daughter) that Eko had to plans to leave anyway…so how did she turn up before his flight to tell him what she saw?...someone knew where he was and what he was doing! I’m going to watch the episode again, too much happened and some of it didn’t sink in.

Locke seemed to be sending a message to Fake Henry as well when he put that map in the air vent, Locke saw they were being watched in the Pearl, he knows Fenry has some level of involvement with the others and maybe he believes that Fenry knew about the map in the hatch on the blast door, is it a message saying he’s ready to talk to Fenry about being part of their group? We all know Locke has found something here on the Island. He’s not looking to leave, it’s previously been hinted at that Locke could kind of go either way (good/bad) and maybe he feels like he owes something to the Island, we need to start thinking in a black and white sense that was hinted at in the first season, although they’re doing at great job in making grey!

What else, Libby?!...is it possible we’ll see her alive on the Island again, her death didn’t make sense in that we have no story with her really, why put that one scene at the end in the nut house? Something doesn’t add up….plus we’re going to get some unbelievable ending this season, so who knows.

Anyway, I’ll leave at that, here comes Hurley and he’s hungry!

Stay Lost

[raj]

i also like that idea to do episode commenteries. It will be like a nice little DVD boxset.

[Matt Jones]

Dr. Candel and Dr. Waxman is the same guy. He used a fake name on the Swan film. It was all part of the experiment.

I think the video from the Pearl will be how Michael is found out. There is probably audio too. Remember Brian's observation on the "Lockdown" cast about the speaker feedback.

The Sawyer stash revelation was great. Everything hidden in plain sight. Slick.

Who or what is causing the dreams and visions? I think that there is a powerful psychic at the center of the mystery. I think Dharma unleashed a powerful psychic. They need Walt to counteract their mistake. Or, maybe this psychic force brought this interconnected group of people to the island to help free it from Dhrama's control.

With all those TVs I wonder if they can see what's up in other hatches.

Remote viewing on the map may not be what we thought. Maybe it's just a notation for other observation stations.

Part of the Swan experiment could include what happens when a subject eventually gives up on pressing the button. Maybe the map is just another set of stimuli.

[Isaac]

So in this orientation film (tape), Dr. Marvin Candle introduced himself as Dr. Mark Whitman. So in every orientation film his name is different? Why?

And yes, saying that the Pearl hatch is part of the experiment certainly wouldn't be way off. The real question is of course...

Qui custodiet ipsos custodes?

[Isaac]

I'm sorry... it's Dr. Waxman? I watched that part again. While the tape "jumps" while he says his name, I thought it definitely starts with "Whi". But, with the Lost Experience (that I don't really follow), I guess "Waxman" is a fact. Ah, my poor ears.

[Scott in NY]

okay, great episode of LOST. Some food for thought:

(1) we know the Pearl hatch orientation tape was VHS with a copyright of 1980, and that the good Dr. had both of his arms in the orientation film. By contrast, in the Swan orientation tape, made later (i forgot the copyright date) he has the prosthetic arm, after the ‘incident’.

We are led to believe in the Pearl orientation film that the pushing of the numbers in the Swan was part of a psychological experiment, the pushing had no purpose, and that all that was important was that those people pushing the buttons believed they were doing something important. (Seems Locke clearly believed a variation of this after seeing the film). Whether this is truthful or not remains to be seen. But it is clearly possible that once the incident happened all this went out the window. Since the incident the pushing of the buttons has a purpose, one that needs to continue. The other hatches have been abandoned, hence the Pearl hatch is no longer needed.

(2) Over the past few episodes we have seen that Locke has been infatuated with whether Fenry Gale actually entered the code and pushed the button. Did he think to look at the log that he printed out which would appear to show everytime it was entered? If Gale hadn’t entered the code and hadn’t pushed the button, would that be reflected on the log? Will he look at it in the future and will Ecko force him to look at it in his attempt to reaffirm Locke’s faith?

(3) When the losties first opened the Swan hatch, the ladder was in complete disrepair and broken, and it eventually turned out there was another entrance. By contrast the Pearl hatch ladder was in perfect shape, and there is no other entrance (that we know about). Has someone been there later than its last usage? Is that why the computer that prints the log is still active with toner and paper, because instead of having the Pearl hatch manned by two people, individuals go on a schedule and print out the log and then send it through the air system.

(4) Based on the Pearl orientation film, we know that the air system brings the records or any sent items to where the orientation film was filmed, as the Dr says it will bring them “here”. Where is here?

I totally concur with anyone who is saying that the Pearl is an experiment within an experiment.

The podcasts are great, keep them coming, otherwise I would be LOST!

[majik]

West Syiad,

I also noticed those inconsistencies (except the Eko one).

As far as the 2 of "their people" Ana Lucia killed....you say Goodwin and Shannon. Obviously Shannon was not one of "their people," but if you remember when she killed Goodwin, at first she thought some other character was an "other." Remember the one he threw in the pit and wouldn't feed him? Didn't she end up killing him?

West Syiad...

"Also, last week Fake Henry told Anna that she had killed two of their people, but I only remember her killing Goodwin and Shannon... Hmmmmm..."

[Matt Jones]

She killed one of the Others that attacked the Tailes on the beach. Goodwin plus extra equals two Others down.

[Raz Minder]

Re: The Psychic 'forcing' Eko to take Flight 815

Sounds like a good idea. Here's my problem... how'd he know Eko was going to LA...

Claire was directly handed tickets for Flight 815... this would be a very indirect (and fortunate) manipulation on Richard Malkin's part.

If you can give me a good reason on how he would know that Eko was/would be taking that flight, then I'm sold... but that is a big "if."

-------

Dr. Candle, Mr. Waxman... maybe Mr. Wick next.

-------

You guys talked about a double-blind experiment in the last podcast, and after this episode, it seems as if both the Swan and Pearl stations are a part of a much larger experiment that they obviously aren't aware of.

[Alex]

Interesitng how much has happened on that single spot...

Also, now we know it wasn't the Island that healed Libby as we saw her in Flashback.

So, what do we all think about Locke losing faith?
I really want him to change again, he seems frustrated enough. I think he should do a bit more exploration again, the only thing he CAN put his faith into now is the Island, though he seemed pretty dismissive of that too?

[Bryan]

Scott in NY I am so glad you brought up the points that you did. In your point number 3: I was really curious when Eco takes all those printouts with him, how they will be of use, I like your theory. Also it has always bothered me why the Swan station film was on a film strip since a well funded program in the 80's should have VHS or BETA. Now that they have the BETA machine in the other hatch it makes sense. The Swan hatch is a giant magnet so you could not have video tape there it would get erased. That would also explain them using vinyl instead of 8 track tapes or cassetes to listen to music.

The magnet would also affect the computer equipment thats why it is sheilded in that seperate room.

This is probably all really old information for most people but I just got it. sorry im slow.

Back to work...

[Alex]

Re: Qui custodiet ipsos custodes?

Is it wrong I just laughed at the awful pun of "Who watches the Waxman?"

[Mark B]

Random thoughts some (all) of which may have been said before -- this started short and I just got carried away ….

Firstly LOST is back on form. Can't wait for next week. The finale will come too soon.

Candle/Waxman: Clearly the same bloke, but Candle can't move his left arm. Why ? The incident happened between the two films being shot ? Twins ? Wasn't there talk of twins being important -- hasn't been much about that, other than the book which isn't actually part of the show.

Pearl station: As others have said it's an experiment within an experiment. The real Dharma folk watch the Pearl people watching the Swan people. The notebooks go nowhere. The cameras do not record anything just relay pictures (was there sound?) so no hope of seeing Micheal shooting Ana and Libby. Even if it did record it would only do so for a few hours max. The nine screens were for different cameras in the Swan hatch, only one works now. Very Big Brother.

Micheal/Ana/Libby: I don't think Micheal had to shoot Ana as part of any deal. I think any deal is that he was to free Fenery. Ana just presented him with the chance to get Fenery out and Micheal took it. Libby walked in at the wrong time. Micheal did not mean to kill Libby he meant to kill Ana.

Cine film vs VHS: Had the Pearl been upgraded ? It would be easer to upgrade there as the "subjects" don't have the same requirements to stay. Or the cine film could have been a simple plot device so that they could find the missing piece and easily splice it in. Like the idea about the magnet affecting the tapes.

Numbers on Pearl Log: already covered by others. My thoughts exactly. Fenery will be found out.

Libby: She was on the plane and she's dead, and I for one am not happy. I think the writers blew it and should not have killed her, she was far too interesting and had lots of potential. Why introduce four new characters (Ana, Libby, Bernard and Eko) only to kill two off. All the writers have done is add credence to the DUI => out of show speculation. If they were after some shock scenes do an Artz, introduce a new character from the original 'anonymous' Losties and off them. The new character still could have been Hurleys love interest. If they wanted to kill an existing character they could have gone for Charlie who's story is pretty much complete. It will be hard to do flashbacks to explain Libbys back story without her. How to explain why she is in the nuthouse unless someone on the island we know put her there ? Rumours are she will be back in flashbacks. Perhaps she will appear in a dream and spill her guts (pun intended).

Psychic: Not sure if he is a fraud or not. He seemed genuine with Claire and how could he 'read her' and know she was pregnant when she only just knew herself - did her friend tell him ? That said I spoke to someone at work who said he thought the psychic may be a fraud and was in fact selling the unborn Aaron to the people in LA. The $6000 was the downpayment, he's keeping the rest. As for the psychic lining up Eko on the plane -- how did he know which plane Eko would book himself ?

Eko/Locke: excellent interaction should be seen more together. Really liked the Locke dream sequence and the "Wake up John" line. Initially I thought Femi was telling Eko to wake John up. Also the play on previous "we should see that again" line and the revesal of Locke into the doubting Jack and Eko taking Lockes place as the this is something we need to do.

What they see in the promo: could be anything. Micheal returning to the beach, a boat, a plane, a body in the sea, the Others, an unknown person, something else in the water (the underwater hatch ?), Walt, Desmond, whatever bought the plane down, Eko riding in on a bamboo tank, the list is endless. I think the glow people have refered to is just the sun, not some exploding plane or a mushroom cloud. Could they be having some group hallucination thing ? More dream sequence ?

Night and Day: was it just me or was there some time problems in the episode. It seemed to get messed up between night and day some of the time.

Mark B

PS Like the idea of you doing a voice-over for the DVDs.

[Challabuck]

Somewhere sometime ago someone astutely pointed out that the medical hatch where pregnant Claire was taken (I forget the technical name) looked like it had been abandoned for years when Claire et al. went back, even though it couldn't have been more than a month in the timeline of show. Could not the Pearl hatch be similarly fake-abandoned? According to the map, it's not just another hatch but is basically the hub in the wheel of hatches. The suction tube and the feed from Swan make it clear that it's still operational. My guess is ? will play a big as yet unknown role down the line.

[BG]

You know the tube in the pearl hatch....Well the video said it would send the notebook directley to them. Now tube is going to go across a huge ocean to there lab on some other land mass. My theory is that that dude in the video could be on the island or there is another hatch on the island that is or used to be packed with researchers.
READ THIS AND PLEASE GIVE ME FEED BACK. I FEEL LIKENO ONE EVER LISTENS TO ME.

[BG]

Also I was wondering why Locke didnt check that print out with all the accepted button presses on it to see if fhenry entered the numbers or not.

[quarantine_lockdown]

The timing (switching from day to night) is definitely a problem. Even if you consider that scenes may not have been depicted chronologically (ex: shootings actually happened while jack 'n crew were on their way back to the hatch), it still doesn't make sense.
Sawyer said 'give me 20 minutes' when he was to go back to the beach for the heroin for libby. why would it have taken everyone so long to get back to the hatch when they originally realized that AL had sawyer's gun?

Also, what was the deal with libby at the airport? It totally seemed like she knew the psychic-daughter-girl, and the daughter-girl knew her! Like - yeah,yeah, everything's cool libby. Maybe her role in the whole flight 815 thing was to make sure everything went as planned, or to be an observer. [ By the way, I got a kitten last weekend and named her libby. :) ]

And I cried for the first time during lost. Geez, that was crazy sad. I'm thinking they are eventually going to figure out it was michael who was the shooter....maybe through libby appearing in a dream to hurley??

I think the ferry is going to show up on the beach - that is what they are all looking so shocked at on the preview! Can't wait to see Walt and how they manage the olderness-factor!

[WeakLemonDrink]

It's possible that Locke DID check the printout and has his answer. It just wasn't revealed to us.

I utterly *love* the idea of Libby coming back to life and scaring the hell out of the Losties, though. Brilliant theory! It's possible that Lindelof's past comment about not bringing people back from the dead could be a lie. He's a crafty one.

Glad a few people like the DVD idea. If you mix the sound right so we can hear the episode a bit in the background, people wont even need the DVD or download of the episode to enjoy it, either!

[WeakLemonDrink]

Actually, I think it's worth mentioning how impressive Jorge was in his big scene at the end. He's really built up the most likable characters ever and to see him break down like that really hit home. Top job on the acting front.

[WeakLemonDrink]

"Glad a few people like the DVD idea."

Glad a few people like the *commentary* idea.

[Mark B]

BG:
No need to shout. Yes I agree the notebooks must stay on the island. Those tubes can't 'fire' the notebooks too far, they essentially rely on suction to work, banks and shops used to use them to send money around buildings not across towns/cities. I suggest (as other have before me) as the Pearl is just another experiment the books go to a room near the Pearl and no one reads them.

[Matt Lafferty]

NO NO NO! Is there a case of Locke-itis going around? Why in the world are we accepting the idea that the Pearl is the big question mark--just because Eko and John walked through the forest at night?!

The security system protects something, right? Undoubtedly it protects The Big Mystery, and I seriously doubt if The Big Mystery is that someone is watching the Losties on TV--(ahhh, we really are the Others!)

Look at the map: at the 3 and 4 o'clock position, it says things like "The Pearl?" and "CV IV?" and "high potential for R.V.S facility" and "interference might also prevent... use as listenting station...". It all points to the notion that Locke and Eko simply went off course. Heck, they made their geographic decision based on Locke's hand-drawn map with adreniline in there blood and reading by flashlight!

Furthermore, both orientation flims have made reference to 6 stations (they start by saying "The Pearl (5 of 6)" or "The Swan (3 (I think!) of 6). Six stations, presumably arranged in the same shape as sublymonal.com. After the creators have given us this fabulous map, which is pretty well detailed from the 6-12 o'clock positions, don't forget that it has less information from 1-6 o'clock--exactly where, I propose, Locke and Eko ended up!

This episode was all about having faith tested. Are we really going to believe that the big question mark on the map, which mirrors are own big question mark about the show, was answered last night? That the big mystery place, which the map labels as "Designation Unknown, Purpose Unknown, Relation to DIHG Unknown" merely required a quick visit to understand "Designation: Pearl Station; Purpose: Remove Viewing; and Relation to DIHG: Yes."

I'm not sure where the truth is, but The Question is still out there.

[Mark B]

Matt L:
I agree the Pearl may not be the "?" station. My initial reaction was that it was not. I think people are saying it is mainly due to Eko seeing a ? when he was up on the cliff and the fact that Lindelof and/or Cuse made comments Eko and John going looking for it in the official podcast. I suspect it's not and you are right Eko and Locke are in the hatch on the left of the map.

SUDDEN THOUGHT ---->> I think Locke sent the map up the tube so the Eko didn't realise his mistake !

[EUDORA]

Did anyone else notice how the orientation video started to get messed up right as he was saying "after your 8 hr shift proceed to the "pala ferry" (i think he said) to prepare for your next...Inaudible.....

Also it appears the pearl hatch has been dormant for quite some time... did anyone notice what all that stuff was on the table when they first walk in? Looks like a cigarette but and a bunch of rocks?? Strange.

Anyways, first time poster. You guys do an awesome job, keep it up

[Mark B]

Correction to my last post ....

I suspect it's not and you are right Eko and Locke are in the hatch on the *RIGHT* of the map.

[tyler]

does anyone know where the screen caps for this episode are. i would like to see the images that ecko sees after he realizes ana is dead in his dream.

[Chris P]

hey anyone noticed this... LOCKE'S DAD is on the Board... unsure how truthful the website is... but it is the Widmore Group.

[Chris P]

http://www.widmoregroup.com/corporate.htm

sorry here is the link

[Mrak]

What's odd is how the sound on the video wows and slurs... understandable on the Swan film but if a video-tape machine plays back at an irregular rate, enough to make the sound warble at least, then the picture would lose sync... certainly more than shown in the episode.

Oh man, video nerd :p

[jeremiah]

random thoughts from a man with a broken hand (just to explain the poor typing right now..)

so who wants to take bets on when Gary Troup shows up in a flashback :)
I wonder if he is dead or will pop up later. Sure he is dead to the outside world but they all are. He may be laying low as a 'sock' (official podcast reference for 'extras') or possibly he has been captured from one of the tailie 'attacks'.

Cindy is definatly an other and probably helped in the plain crashing.

you can download the first chapter of the bad twin from itunes for free right now.

speaking of subLYMONal messages. man I want a sprite about now....

[moviebuff15]

There's no problem with the time continuum; the last episode ended in the evening, and I believe that Michael was obviously lying about the "gone for 30 minutes" thing anyway. BUt forget that...a bigger thing has me CONFUSED. The doors of the Arrow, the Staff, and the Pearl were all doors that could simply be pulled open. So why did they have to frickin' blow open the doors of the Swan? Why were those doors locked tighter and kept more contained?

The only thing I can think of is that that station came later (after this incident when people were getting sick) and they felt to be safe, the quarantine doors should be added.

But it's hard telling with this show...

[Kate]

Random suggestion for summer podcasts:

I definetly think you guys should stay on the LOST track during the summer break. It's the one thing that we all have in common and if the subject matter changes it might not appeal to everyone. You might lose listeners and who knows how many would stay lost (haha). Anyway, I think you should really go over the picky details LOST provides for us now that we have the time (ie the book appearances, the hanso and dharma groups, character connections, ect...) Just a thought :) great job!!

[Rok]

oh yeah, the pearl and ? are so not the same thing. i mean, all we have to really make that conclusion is that THERE'S A BIG FRIGGIN' ? ON THE GROUND and the dot LEADS TO THE PEARL STATION. but other than that, there's absolutely no connection whatsoever.

man, i think some of you are REALLY trying to overcomplicate matters.

[Rok]

p.s. by the way, regarding the difficulty of opening hatches, remember that the swan hatch had a "normal" door, similar to the arrow hatch, that they found later. it's just that the hatch we all obsessed about in season 1 was what boone and locke stumbled upon first.

p.p.s. i really don't get why john put his map in the vaccuum tube to test it. one COULD read it as locke sending the others a message, but all of his actions say that he wants nothing to do with the doctors who have been conducting this experiment on him so far.

p.p.p.s. is this what people refer to as a "double-blind" experiment, where both the experimenter AND the test subject are unaware of their true purpose within the experiment, yet "interact" in a way with each other? i mean, you'd THINK the central hatch would be an administration point, BUT with the closed-circuit camera AND the vaccuum tube sending journals to "us" (as marvin candle or whatever he's calling himself now) show there is STILL a level higher than this.

final thing: in the preview for next episode, in the first black & white flash of michael being tied up and lead off, one of the people taking him away was UNMISTAKABLY alex, danielle's daughter. just load the preview at lostlinks.net and pause it on that frame.

[WeakLemonDrink]

Just a thought, do you think Locke might be sending a message to the others telling them he still wants to be 'chosen'? He could have written it on the paper.

I'd love Locke to change sides, that'd be ACE.

[Matt Jones]

My take on why the Swan has so many differences from other hatches is that the Swan is engineered to make whoever is inside think that something really bad has happened and they are the last hope. It's all stagecraft, smoke and mirrors. The quarantine signs mean nothing. The injections are placebos. The magnetic wall is nothing more than a big magnet behind a wall. The fancy computer equipment is just pretty lights. The filmstrip is propaganda. The incident never happened. It's all a just a complex set of stimuli for the human rats in the Skinner Box.

[Courtney]

So I just re-watched the episode and realized that I made a factual mistake in my earlier double-posting incident... They send the notebooks as they get full, not at the end of each shift, but all my other conjectures still stand. (Please forgive my oversight.)
In the new orientation video, near the end, just before it gets fuzzy, Dr. (Insert name here, I think it sounds like Wickman rather than Waxman) says something along the lines of...once your shift is complete make your way to the **fuzzy word** ferry.... then the video goes to static and then pops back up. I think this is huge. Most ferry's don't travel longer than overnight, so that would imply that the main headquarters (or at least the headquarters for the overseers of the island research) must be located on another land mass close by, maybe another island. This would also explain the pneumatic tubes. If the ferry takes them someplace close, it's feasible that the tubes could run to that place as well. This may even tie in with the cable that Sayid found on the beach coming out of the water.... All possibilites and all very interesting!
As for the inconsistencies with daylight and dark in the hatch, I have an idea, but I could be totally off base here. Isn't most of the hatch buried underground... so are we sure that the windows in the hatch are real windows to the outside... Could it not be that the windows are there to make it look more natural and homey for the people working inside. All I can remember seeing in the window is either light or dark, no shapes, no images. So could the windows simply be light boxes to make the person staying there feel more normal and to help them retain some semblance of regular photoperiods (night and day)? It would explain why it looks like daytime in the hatch when it's night outside and vice-versa. Just a thought. Looking forward to the podcast!

[Will]

It looks like "the Pearl" has torpedoed the Apollo-constellations theory.

And.. WHY DID NEITHER OF THEM TRY TO FIND OUT WHERE THE PNEUMATIC TUBE WENT?

[quarantine_lockdown]

The light by the eating area in the hatch is definitely simulation. The day/night inconsistency is that:
1. sawyer realizes that AL has lifted his gun at the beach in daylight, then they start back to the hatch
2. it is dark when they get back to the hatch and find michael stumbling out the hatch door
3. they go inside the hatch with michael, find the gunshot victims and jack starts caring for them. michael says the shooting happened about half an hour ago. they decide libby needs the heroin for pain relief. sawyer and kate go back to the beach to get the heroin, and it is daylight again when they get to the beach.

either that was one quick night, or it is a production error, or there is something else going on that we don't know about! Note: the beach and the hatch aren't that far away from each other - sawyer said to give him 20 minutes to go a round trip from hatch to beach.

[Walt is old now]

The ferry! It could easily take them to just another part of the island they're already on ( as apposed to another nearby island). It seems unlikely the tubes would go underwater.

[Bryan]

I really think the air tube thing is nothing to anylize. I don't think Locke really gives a shit anymore and I think they wanted to do two things with that scene.
1. show us that the tubes still work.
2. show how locke is disenchanted and is willing to just throw away his map that he spent a lot of time on.

I don't think he was sending a message, if you watch he just kinda feels around for somthing to play with sending in the tube. REalizes he has this scrap of paper, looks at it, says "F it, I just send this" and lets it go.

For those that can not except this is the question mark hatch. You maybe right it may not be but it probably is. This show is like a video game, they have admited it to be their intention. In Video games it is not unheard of to visit the "end game" area only to find nothing or that you need a special key to progress past it and you will be reveling the true secrets of that level after you find the treasures that unlock it. Additonaly there could be a ferry that, like a lot of role playing games, take you to another ilsand with more hatches (or game levels) that will be explored.

I am really bothered by the light and day thing too I hope somone will post it as a quest for the offical cast on Monday.

back to work...

[quarantine_lockdown]

This may be way out there, but could there be any connection to ? (question MARK) and the fact that the artist-previously-known-as-marvin-candle is there called 'MARK'?

[Bryan]

"the LOSTees will have a movie night where they watch the entire first season of Gilligans Island... hey it could happen, and how ironic would that be..."

That would not be ironic at all.

Irony would be if Hurley's favorite all time show as Gilligans Island and he really wanted to see it. But Charlies' favorite show is Monte Python's Flying Circus. And lets say they find the Pearl hatch and up on a high shelf they see a Video Cassette and the cover says Montey Python's Flying Circus. Hurley says, "I wish it was Gilligan's Island" and Charley says I can't reach it can you get it for me mate?". Hurley reaches up to the shelf but then the shelf crashes down on him and kills him. Charley says "oh well, thats too bad, always liked that guy" " but at least i have my Monte Python tapes to watch". Charley opens the cover only to find that somone put the wrong tape in and its the Season 1 of Gilligan's Island. Charley actually has seen Gilligan's Island before while touring in America and absolutly hates it. He see's the tape and say's "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO", just like Darth Vador.

That would be Ironic ;-p

[kitten]

1. I want to point out that the guy in the Pearl video called himself Wickman, not Waxman. I don't know where people are getting the name Waxman (although I have an idea, and I think the connection with the names is amusing).

2. When the "psychic" said he was a fraud and that he collected information on people, I immediately thought that he could've been in line with the guy who gave Eko the passport (and connected to Dharma). My guess is that there really WAS a miracle, and as soon as the "psychic" found out that Eko was sent to investigate, he told him it was just hypothermia and there had been no miracle -- solely so Eko's journey to LA went uninterrupted. I imagine that if he stayed on the case longer, his trip would've been delayed -- so the "psychic" wanted to make sure he left the country (and got on the ill-fated plane) on schedule.

3. I have a feeling the numbers on the log printout are minutes. so the experiment has been going on for 4 million minutes or so? I wonder how many years that is? (I don't have a screencap to reference, unfortunately.)

4. I watched the episode again this morning on ABC.com and noticed a few choice months/numbers on Eko's passport...April (4), August (8), 15 (or was it 16?), 23!

5. Something about the end of Eko's first dream strikes me as incredibly odd. Right before he wakes up, there are a bunch of scenes flashing on the screen, and the last thing *I* saw was a dark scene with the axe hitting the stump, complete with axe-hitting-stump sound effect. And then we see Eko wake up. At the end of that scene, Eko looks at the axe, which is sitting in the stump as though someone had swung it there. It's possible that Eko simply put it there himself before he went to sleep, but based on what I saw after the screen flashes and how Eko looked at the axe afterward, I have this weiiiiird feeling that someone/something put the axe there for Eko to notice. Now that I'm typing this out, it sounds a bit stupid...but I can't shake the feeling that maybe it was put there for Eko to notice and that it kickstarted his desire to follow through with what his bro told him in his dream.

Anyway, LOVE the podcast, guys! I discovered it when i was searching for info about the blast door map, and I'm so glad I did. Keep it up! :) (Btw, I'm curious what podcasts you guys like to listen to!)

[smokem]

Maybe, if one guy drew the hatch map then it could be that he found the door to the pearl and coulndt get it open, Eko and Locke were both grunting to get it open. Maybe he wrote ? because he never got in, which would explain why it say "purpose unknown". But who knows there are just to many "maybes", especially with the map.

[whooptydoo]

The only problem I have with the pearl not being the ? is, in Eko's first dream Anna and Lemmi wanted Eko to help John find the ?, so why would Lemmi lead him to the pearl if it wasnt the ?... they didnt say help john find some random hatch.

[Mark B]

Only reason I can see for the Pearl not being the "?" hatch is that I expected the "?" hatch to just be more revealing about the whole Dharma Initative not just a watching station for one small part of it.

whooptydo raises the best arguement yet for it being the "?" I also like Bryans 'video game' idea. I just think there has to be more to it than people sitting about for 8 hours watching other people -- whilst maybe being watched -- not exactly a big mystery unless the button pushing not being needed is the big deal here.

To be honest I never really saw the ? in the grass -- it looked more like a 3/4 circle to me. Looking at the screen caps on http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x21/questionMark.jpg it's hardly convincing. Certainly the vertical part wasn't very clear -- it seemed to be made up of the burnt plane which of course wasn't there before.

I'm still bummed Libby died.

[Dark Hurley]

Can someone recheck the preview of next week's episode and tell me if they show Libby in there? I could have sworn . . .

Anyhow, the hatch thing is starting to get on my nerves. They find another new hatch and this one is abandoned as well. All told, they have found four hatches now and only one of them held another human being. I'm confused, though . . . are there six hatches counting The Pearl, or does The Pearl make it seven? Anyway, if Locke would actually sit down and talk to Claire about something other than Charlie's addiction or Aaron's diaper rash, he might know that The Others use these hatches and are probably holed up in the two or three they haven't found yet.

Observation - Claire, Locke, Rose, Bernard, Jin, Sun and Walt have never killed anyone. Charlie and Michael have become murderers since they've been on the island. Everyone else killed someone before reaching the island (albeit Jack's and Hurley's victims were unintentional). Just bringing this up because I think it means something in the Good, Bad determinations.

Also: There is no redeeming Michael's character now. He will have to die. If there's any justice, I'd like to see Michael's fate sealed by Hurley somehow.

Ok, my time's up. Next . . .

[Lee, UK]

Im suspicious that just as Locke starts to lose faith and it seems he may stop pushing the button eko starts having visions and his journey ends with him convinced that the button must be pushed. Has the island recruited another servant?

Great podcast guys, stay LOST

[Cihan]

Definite Matrix Reloaded vibe in this episode...Loved it.

[biolite]

Yeah I think that the '?' on the map is the pearl hatch. I think we all assumed that the big question mark must be the big secret, the answer to all the questions (I know I did). It seemed pretty clear that the dreams led them to the question mark, the trick was that the question mark wasn't the answer ;)

Reading all the comments about where the tube system goes, I can't help but remember the simpson's episode where all the tubes empty into the river and the beavers use the capsules to make a dam, heh heh.

Was there a date on the Swan orientation film? It would be interesting to establish a time-line between the two films and the "incident" dates that were on the map. Perhaps the purpose of the swan changed after the incident. It does seem that the button will amount to something important.

Also, it's important to remember that the Psychic's story about hypothermia DID allow Eko to board the plane, but he would of been on the plane wether the daughter had been at the airport or not. The daughter's message served to reinforce Eko's faith.

[Cameron]

There are a number of inconsistancies in most episodes - especially where they have tried to recreate conditions in Australia. I'm not going to clog up the page with more from this episode (there were a few) but I will just raise one that may point to the fact that one of the characters is telling a lie.

The psychic says that his daughter fell into a 'mountain river' and went into hypothermia. In Sydney the closest thing we have to mountains are the Blue Mountains, which are in fact barely hills.

In September (the time the plane left) we are well into our Spring. It is far from cold. It would be absolutely impossible to go into hypothermia as a result. Those cases you get in the US and Europe where people fall through ice into water and appear to be dead just can't happen.

This is just far too hot a country for that sort of thing except maybe way, way further south for a couple of weeks in mid winter - maybe. Remember how Jack's father was commenting to Sawyer about the heat when they were drinking? And he was from Los Angeles!

My point: I don't think the psychic was telling the truth. He just didn't want the church sniffing around whatever he was up to - which was presumably something to do with HI/DG.

[Shelley]

There has to be research/experiments still occuring on the island or the things that happened to Clare in the medical hatch would not have happened. Something is going on . . . I would venture to say that it will be something connected to the Hanso Foundation and/or Widmore, or they wouldn't be focusing on those two groups in the Lost Experience. PLEASE TALK ABOUT THE LOST EXPERIENCE MORE IN THE PODCAST!!! What has happened last . . . what is the point . . . and why are strange things happening to some of the people who play?

[Cameron]

I was rewatching the Pearl orientation film just now and something dawned on me that is very, very disturbing.

OK, so to get this straight, we have:

- some people sitting in couches watching TV screens

- the people are noting down every single detail of what they see, nothing is too minute or seemingly unimportant to be recorded

- then they literally *upload* the fruits of their diligent observations like clockwork

- there is a computer keeping tally of the number of *posts* they make

- it is not important to these people that they know what the people they are watching think they are involved in - they just keep watching, and watching, and watching

- when the viewing is done they are told to go *visit* some other *site*.

Where have we come across such a bizarre, yet so strangely familiar, ritual before....

Hmmmm

[mike]

I cant wait for the 2 hour podcast that this episode will require.

[Coronado]

If they re-named this episode, they would re-name it "Locke Says The Darndest Things," honestly... Locke is just cranky throughout the episode until he begind to re-gain faith towards the end. My favorite quote this week...

(Eko and Locke are looking at the map)

Eko: "Is this a river?"
Locke: "No, it's a wavy line..."

C'mon Locke!!! Wow... up until the end of this episode I was getting really annoyed with Locke, just because of his attitude and loss of faith. I think he was a much cooler character when he "beleived," in the island, but I think Locke is going back to the way he was FINALLY!!!

This episode is proof that Eko is the coolest character on the island. And I think this was a great episode to just see Locke and Eko walking through the jungle in search of what they thought was essentially nothing at all.

At this point I'm not ready to beleive that the island is used for scientific reasons... especially after seeing the state of the new "Couch Potato" hatch. I think that there is something going on other than science experiments.

Eko has a connection to the palm reader who pretty much said that he was a fraud. So does this mean that he was wrong about Claire and Aaron... or not.

I knew Libby was still alive, but did not know she would die ONE EPISODE LATER... maybe this means there is still a Good Twin/Bad Twin possibility, because someone can always lie about their name.

Is Michael releived or scared that Libby is dead, there was a comment on last week's Cast that maybe Michael was not allowed to kill Libby because she was one of the "Good ones," or did Michael want her to die because she might tell them the truth??? I think by next episode they will learn about Michaels true intentions.

Re-cap...

-Locke is annoying
-Locke is re-gaining faith
-Eko is AWESOME!
-Libby is dead
-Fenery is gone
-There was something about a dead river girl
-Exorcist tape
-Eko has a connection to Claire's palm reader
-The palm reader is a "fake"
-Couch Potato hatch has been found
-Eko follows dreams
-Question Mark is a salted field
-Michael is a very, very bad person
-Next episode we see Zeke again!!!
-Next week I think they find The Other Others campsite

P.S.

I think we will soon see Charlie in the Couch Potato hatch eating Dharma Doritos and watching CSI... and the LOSTees will have a movie night where they watch the entire first season of Gilligans Island... hey it could happen, and how ironic would that be...

Take care... Stay LOST.

[Tom T]

Hi guys,
Just a thought on the whole cine-film vs VHS tape:
Although we don't know what's real and what's an experiment, there's definitely a magnetic source at the Swan station, and it would make sense not to use a magnetic tape based storage medium (like VHS) there - hence the cine-film. OK so maybe it might not be strong enough to effect it now, but maybe it varies in strength/intensity? I can't remember if the computers/machines in the Swan station seem to have tapes running on the outside or not - but then maybe those parts are actually fact/redundant anyway....

[Phil]

Im just hoping once Hurley does find out we get a scene similar to the Hurley Vs Sawyer fight but with Hurley totally destroying Michael!

Im just now hoping that theres some sort of video recording of what happened in the new hatch and I also look forward to them looking over that print out, hopefully it'll say what Henry did on the computer.

[Cihan]

Just because there is a camera inside the Pearl bunker, it does not necessarily mean that its a Matrix-within-a-Matrix theory scenario playing out here, i.e - the watchers also being part of an experiment. It could be just for security's sake, afterall the camera is in plain view. It could be a test, like Eko says, or it could just be protocol. At this point, the story could go either way, we cant assume too much. We're already assuming Dharma is actually real in the first place and not some elaborate smokescreen...(If we're going by the Lost Experience, I guess we have to accept that at least the Hanso Foundation is real)

And I'm really dreading the scenario where Michael is found out, because I really liked his character and am sad that he has now become a murderer (there hasnt been enough discussion on this obvious fact: Michael is now a murderer, his character is changed forever), and I'm also sad that there might be some retribution, from the hands of characters, and the writers, as this is the kind of thing we expect from drama, and possibly Michael's own death, which would mean the loss of Harold Perrineau from Lost, and that would suck. :(

[GBCh]

It would great if somebody, perhaps you, guys made some research about Lost-connected sites.. There is plenty of them and it's hard to figure out which are o importance, which of them are genuine and which are made by fans..
www.widmoregroup.com
www.paikheavyindustries.com
www.widmorelaboratories.com
www.valenzettifoundation.org (and Enrico Valenzetti's blog: www.valenzettifoundation.org/blog/)
www.globalparadigmscorp.com
www.accuracyinstitute.org
http://www.angelfire.com/rings/mygrandmothersbooks/books.html
..and ther's plenty more.. All these sites are somehow connected but which are a part of the lost experience? it's kind of creepy when the line between fiction and real sites is so thin..

[GBCh]

This is a qoute from http://www.angelfire.com/rings/mygrandmothersbooks/books.html
it's a short description of Enzo Valenzetti's(www.valenzettifoundation.org, they co-oparate with Widmore) favourite author's (S.K. Nave's) book titled HERE BE DRAGONS (there's a latin translation of this phrase on the map Lock has found in the hatch) "HERE THERE BE DRAGONS (1972) A flight of dragons awakens one mornings to find all of the humans in the world have simply vanished overnight. After centuries of hiding from mankind, they explore the modern world and try to discover what befell the race of man." On the site where I found this qoute there is a link to another site: http://www.geocities.com/tru_believer2001/sknave.html. It is said there that S.K. Nave was abducted mysterioulsy by either CIA of KGB, perhaps in connection with another boook she wrote, "UNDONE" about "beings of pure information". The aouthor of this article and the site has another site: http://www.accuracyinstitute.org/, where he denies having anything to do with Lost Tv show and he claims he's never heard of it before. However his explenations aren't very convinicing. What do you think about it?

[Karen LH]

On the day/night inconsistency: It might be possible to resolve that if Jack, Locke, and Kate went to Sawyer's camp shortly before sunset, and returned to the hatch shortly after. Isn't it the case that darkness falls more quickly as you get closer to the equator? Also, my impression was that some time had elapsed between when Ana and Libby were found, and when Jack sent Kate and Sawyer for the heroin. It could have been the next morning.

On how the psychic would have known which flight Eko was on: did Eko book his own flight, or could the guy who gave him the forged passport also have given him his plane ticket?

As for Libby being killed off prematurely: I'm really convinced that she is an Other (or part of Dharma or part of Hanso or some such), and so is not properly speaking one of the Lostaways. I don't think that she was ever crazy, but was in the psych ward to observe Hurley. It may be that Hurley will finally remember seeing her there (and perhaps elsewhere?).

And finally: I don't think that Eko's dreams are real. I think he's being manipulated via his guilt over his brother's death, just as Locke was being manipulated by Henry.

[Cihan]

So we've encountered two bunkers with orientation tapes that basically show us a setting for a very mundane and robotic task for the inhabitants. Its an interesting theme Lost is tackling, when you're given a task or instruction so utterly dubious and yet you do it anyway because you've been given the task by people or a person of authority. The choice is to either question what you're doing or have been told, or to swallow it whole and simply trust in authority.

You could say Lost is again commenting on the post 9/11 environment. I truly believe the series is an outcome of, and instrinsically tied with, that world-changing event. Right from the outset with the visceral plane crashing, conjuring immediate allusions to terrorism, to what we've seen so far: the multi-national characters dealing with paranoia, unseen threats and spies, the Others, the raging conflict on faith and logic, on doing the right thing or the easiest, its just an amazing American TV series, I hope they keep pushing the envelope and creating more discourse on the world we are all living in today.

I couldnt imagine how they could stretch the show to numerous seasons, but now I can see it. First it was 'what's in the hatch', then it was 'what does the button do', I cant wait for next season's Big Question!

[Cihan]

1] Although we dont know all of Libby's story yet, so far we can see that she was just a normal person who cared for Hurley and I just hope all those horrible Libby haters out there who started to call her an evil Other ('other' what, I still dont know) from the moment she appeared are ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES.

2] I'm seeing alot of hatred for Michael on forums, and yeah its justified, the guy killed two people, but we dont know what led to him to do what he did yet. I'm more sad than anything.

Maybe by the time we see his flashback, we'll empthasise more and even rethink what we would have done in his place, maybe we'd have done the same. Would you kill to save your child?

[Matt Jones]

I wonder if the Island thinks it's important that the button is pressed? What if Dharma unwittingly tricked the force, the intelligence behind the island just like they tricked their test subjects? Now the island does everything it can to keep someone in the Swan. Or, what if the computer system became self aware because of the island's properties? Despite being sentient it still has the button routine as part of it’s base programming. So while the button was benign before, now if it weren’t pushed the computer/island would cause an actual catastrophe. Or not.

Cameron,

Great observation. Are we all in the Pearl?

Cihan,

LOST and the post 9/11 world is rich fodder for a thesis paper. What I find most fascinating about it is they way that they truly balance the perspectives. They never endorse a course of action as being the right one. They simply show the motivations behind each character's actions. Because of that, and the fact that the producers never forget that their first job is to entertain, the show never comes off as preachy.

[Karen LH]

Well, the reason this "horrible Libby hater" :-) thinks she's an Other is because, when Hurley remarked that he recognized her from somewhere, she didn't cop to being in the psych ward with him. It just seems to me that, if she was on the up-and-up, and if she was falling in love with him, it would be the most natural thing in the world for her to say "I was there, too. I had problems, too." She wouldn't have any reason to hide the fact.

The fact that she never did this really seems fishy to me.

Hurley never told her that he was in the psych ward either, but the difference there is that he doesn't know that she was there too.

My guess is that Hurley will at some point remember seeing Libby in the psych ward and, not having a cynical or unkind bone in his body, will assume that she didn't tell him either because she didn't remember him or because she was embarrassed to say. I, on the other hand, having plenty of cynical and unkind bones in my body, am not buying it.

[Michael Daul]

Just wanted to point out that the videotape from the pearl station to me looked much too big to be VHS. Instead, I think it is a 3/4" u-matic tape. Not that it makes a big difference in the grand scheme of things...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umatic

-vs-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vhs

[kitten]

I need to revise my earlier comment...the axe bit didn't happen after the flashing images, but rather at the end of Eko's dream when Yemi tells him to "bring the axe." Just wanted to clarify (my memory was a bit spotty when I wrote that comment!).

[Cihan]

Matt, great point about character motivations leading the story and events rather than the story dwelling on the right or wrong. Without great characters this show wouldnt be that good at all.

Karen you horrible Libby hater you! :P I know that we had a good reason to be wary about Libby because of her unwillingness on telling him she knew him, but I think Hurley's flashback episode basically cleared up why she wasnt honest with him. Would you tell the guy you really liked that you used to be in a loony bin? Some people would, some people wouldnt. Considering that people on the island consider the crash as a tabula rasa, it makes sense to not go into crappy things that happened in one's past.

Libby's story is essentially done really, there isnt any need to know why she was there, the point is that she was, and that she changed. Unfortunately she's dead now, and Hurley has to live with it.