Get Ready: A Tale of Two Cities

Finally, season 3 of LOST is here! Last night, we got a great season premiere, A Tale of Two Cities. We've got plenty to talk about, and will be releasing our first podcast of season 3 this weekend on Sunday.

As always, get us your comments and questions for the podcast by posting them here, sending us an email or calling our automated audio comment voicemail at: 206-666-CAST (2278).

Comments

[Kris H]

Last night's show was pretty good, but my biggest gripe was: "Too many effing commercials!!!" Most of the other series/season premieres I've seen this fall have had limited commercials and now I know why, they were all shoved into Lost's timeslot.
I did enjoy seeing the plane break apart, "Benry" sending Goodwin and Ethan to their respective duties, and seeing a slightly more human dynamic amongst the others, not to mention seeing their village. I don't have a good read on them yet as to how good or evil they really are, but it shows that they're capable of being pretty normal people.
The show, for me, really didn't pick up until the end where "Julia" had Jack's file and was going over it. That was cool, but most of the show seemed a little too slow-paced for a season premiere. Maybe my expectations were too high, I don't know. I'm still absolutely stoked about the upcoming episodes and I'm sure that we won't be let down!

Stay Lost!
Kris

[Fish Biscuit]

Where is everybody?! I came here expecting to see 100+ posts. The episode ended 12 hours ago and I'm #2?!!!

[ursinha]

yeah, didn't love the show. i wanted to and i tried, but couldn't. maybe it was that i actually developed some hobbies over the summer when lost was off the air. :-)

really though, the slow roll-out just didn't do it for me last night. and i found myself thinking...why da bleep don't the others just get to it. so, anyway, i am sure i won't be a hater for long. stay losttttttttttttt.

[Fish Biscuit]

In the preview that came out last week with Sawyer in the cage, after he pressed the food button for the 2nd time the guy in the other cage said " I wouldn't do that" To which Sawyer replied " If I want your advice I'll ask for it, Carl".

In last nights episode they cut out the name CARL.
Just wondered why.

[bebopscat]

they did say his name, only later on when he was captured

[kitten]

Some of us posted in the previous thread because this one wasn't up yet. :)

[Robert]

Great show, I was very pleased with the episode. I loved the opening with a CD player, I'm guessing next season is an MP3 player.

I like the style of this group of others. The village was like an island Pleasantville. I wonder why the "earthquake" effect in the house though. I've never had a plane break apart above my house, but I doubt it would shake like that. Maybe it passed through some barrier or was a result of Desmond not pushing the button?

The manner in which they treated each individual was interesting. Jack gets an interrogator who looks like his ex, a grilled cheese and an ocean side room. Sawyer get's a man-sized skinner box and a fish biscuit. Kate get's a shower, new dress and a sneak peek into how her next two weeks are going to go. The only thing I'm confidant about is this is to break them down mentally and Benry doesn’t like Stephen King.

Also, why in the world do Sarah, Penny and Juliet have to look so much alike? I know some of the forums have been abuzz about their identity and if they are the same person, but there has to be something to them looking so much alike.

Anyway, hopefully we’ll get some great thoughts and comments to talk about on Sunday.

Stay lost!

[MeMissAnaLucia]

I thought last night's episode was a 3 out of 4 stars.

I LOVED the fact that they showed the opening from the Others perspective. I've always wanted to see this.

After Season #1, we had seen the crash from the Fuselage group's perspective.

Then in Season #2, we saw the opening scence from Desmonds perspective (explosion of the hatch at the end of Season #1) and then an entire episode from the Taily's perspective.

Now in Season #3, we the plane crash PARTIALLY from the Others perspective. It's hard to gain an understanding of "what" their motivations are since the rest of the show was really shot from Jack, Sawyer and Kate's perspective.

No shots of Hurley running through the jungle? No shots of Michael on the boat?

The backstory was great too, with Jack's dad. We finally got to see how Jack drove him his drinking binge death with his own "obsessive" traits. Jack wasn't an alcholic, but he's been obsessive all his life, thinking he has to fix everything.

I always wondered if it was realistic that, being the only doctor, if it was okay for him to be running around with guns risking his life and everyone elses if he got killed. I guess it's his nature.

[Carl, UK]

The cutting of 'Carl' could just be they where trying to shave time off the show, i dont know just a thought

[Gruss vom Krampus]

Wow I loved this one. Probably my favorite episode, but each new one is my favorite episode. I really liked the slow pace and how disorienting the sets were. Every scene was a complete surprise to me and I couldn't wait to see what would happen next. I loved the zoo-ish cages and the underwater hatch (was it really under the sea?) It seems like more water would come pouring through that door if it were really under the ocean. And Jack must have been near Sawyer's cage, because Juliette was in both places. I wonder what Juliette was doing with Jack to prepare him for Benry. What is Benry going to do with Jack now!? Overall the pacing, the detail in the sets, the oldschool twilight zone-like music, the subtlty is amazing. This show is a pilar of excellence. I can't believe they pulled it off again. Can't wait for the podcast!!

[biolite]

Yeah it wasn't bad. Not as shocking as last season finale, but defiantly gave us a lot to think about. It seems we confirmed the existence of the underwater hatch (The Hydra), and disproved the Jack's dad/Sarah theory.

It was interesting to see the perspective of the others and to see their creepy creepy village. I mean...there's something really off about that. Maybe it's just me, but the forced sub-urban American environment in this clearing on a tropical island seemed.... really creepy.

I'm sure the next few episodes should yield some interesting information. Can't wait to see what's been going on with the rest of the losties.

And good for Sawyer, he got a fish biscuit.

[I_Love_Sayid]

How awesome was that!?

The first 5 minutes alone was worth the wait. Can't wait to get home tonight and watch it again. Juliet getting Jack to do what she asked twice and then not giving him any food or water made me hate her. lol. That alone would make me nuts. It's like she's deliberately mocking his pain to make him psychotic. Kind of like what he does to Locke.

Was it me or did the pan-out of Othersville (great coin Kitten and definitely a creepy Pleasantville Robert) look like a Sims screenshot, lol.

So that was allot of commercials, huh? I usually wait a day and download but I had to see the premier… so I got out the old TV set. I guess we didn't notice the long message breaks 'cause we were to busy talking about what we had just seen. What’s this about AmEx?

How touching was the scene where Sawyer gives Kate his biscuit? I guess she didn’t eat the fresh nova lox brunch she was served. Of course when she got to the cave she kind of looked a bit roughed up though, didn’t she?

[Aurora]

I think they cut the Carl because there was a deleted scene before it where Sawyer learned Carl's name. Without that scene, it wouldn't make sense for him to say it.

SO is Carl a plant? He seemed to get out of that cage awfully easily, and to direct Sawyer to run right into where Juliet was standing. I think at the very least he was hoping they would be trying so hard to get Sawyer back they might lose him.

[Anyolina]

I wonder why they have someone like Desmond who apparently crashed into the island push a very 'important' button, and not one of the others who seem to be living a normal life in the middle of nowhere. Not to mention that since the hatch 'blew up'..there is no more button pressing..or is there?

[Symbha]

@Robert, I think the earthquake is related to the incident in the The Swan, and magnetism, not the plane crashing. Plane crash is a side effect of the incident (which I still don't get, why an aluminum plane is broken apart by magnetism, but I digress.)

In general, I enjoyed the episode, though I think it would have done them justice to have a 2 hour premier. In many ways they just introduced a few things.

I thought the Pleasantville village was a little bit hokey, though there could be some interesting detail to come later. I don't get why building such an out of place (architecturally) village would be a good idea to them. But it's a nit for sure.

I agree that it's interesting to see the contrasting treatment of the prisoners. I think Sawyer as rat in the cage is hilarious though.

Questions/thoughts I have:
- What happened to Carl? Was he a plant? (I tend to think so.)
- Do we presume the 2 hour bears are the Polar Bears?
- I wonder why 2 weeks? Kate is going to experience 2 weeks of 'unpleasant' I wonder why that long... couldn't it take longer?
- Did we actually see 2 new hatches? The Hydra is where Jack is, is Saywer in the same complex?
- Was Juliette trying to break Jack into trusting her? or break him into eating (drugs?)
- What was Benry leaving Juliette for dead, or turning her back on her during the flooding, what was that all about?

I think the whole thing is a setup for Jack having to choose to end Kate and Sawyer's suffering by performing some service for the others. But we shall see.

More if I can think of it... gonna watch it again tonight for details.

[Cassie]

@Symbha

"I don't get why building such an out of place (architecturally) village would be a good idea to them. But it's a nit for sure."
I'm not sure whether you mean them (the Others) or them (the producers). But first, i mean, if the island is uninhabited, how can something be architecturally out of place? Because it's not grass shacks?
As to the producers- they did'nt built that. It was shot in a bunch of cabins on Oahu where people go for vacations. Although ti's not really in a valley like that....
Oh, and I said this in the other thread, but Saywer, Jack and Kate are all at the Hydra hatch- the symbol behind Sawyer's cage is the same one on the door that Jack opens.
I think Jack is being held underwater for sure, but that can be interpreted different ways. Either he's really under the ocean, and those pipes behind sawyer lead to the entrace (and that's what Juliette came out of). Or he's more literally "under water", as in, he's being held under the main tank of the aquarium. The room he's in is a holding chamber, so they have a door that goes up into the main tank so they can go in and bring animals down into Jack's little cage to observe them in isolation.

[rachel_in_sg]

Hi, I haven't watched the show haha but heard a podcast recap, which sounds great. Anyway, they mentioned Juliet giving Jack a trippy drug to invoke memories? Sounds like Locke, anyone?

[Preston]

Man this is cool! But I am confused as hell... I wanted to see Locke, Desmond and Eko too but why do they have Jacks life story? The plane crash at the start was amazing, the whole episode I was like WTF! Can't wait for your podcast! :O)

[smokem]

I thought this season premeire was much faster and WAY BETTER than last seasons taillies premeire...

It was interesting when Julie played that song at the beginning, she almost got emotional... I dont remember, but if that was one of the songs that got played in the swan, maybe she was stationed at the swan.

And WOW, Julie has some MAD strength to, with ONE right hook, knock Jack out long enough to drain the hatch, drag him back into his holding room, and go get his file and dry off...

and now I know who Fenry truely is... he is Ben KENOBI, which also means we know where they are, a galaxy far far away... mystery solved everyone stop watching the show.

[Nick]

Going back to Robert's comment, mainly the house shaking...Anyone think it had to do with the "System Failure" that was going on in the Swan? I figured the shaking was related directly to the Swan, especially due to the fact that as everyone ran out of the house, the plane was still in tact. I know a plane just simply flying by overhead does not cause that kind of disturbance...Just my thoughts.

I agree that there were way too many commercials, I guess it was nice that they were shorter breaks.

I was hoping for more, but the peek into the Others' world was awesome and from the sounds of it, this first 6 week arc is going to be very exciting. I am ready to see how the rest of the losties are doing and see what they have planned for getting their friends back. I REALLY want to see the remnants of the Swan, I was hopeful to at least get a glimpse. Looking forward to the podcast this weekend and next week's episode.

Stay Lost,
Nick

[Andrew]

I really liked the opening segment, especially the shots that moved to a wider and wider perspective showing the others' weird little village and the plane parts trailing smoke down to the island.

The door: someone questioned the amount of water coming in. I agree. My knowledge of underwater engineering is limited to what I've picked up from TV but if that door was ever supposed to be usable wouldn't they have to have two doors with an airlock between them that they could fill and drain the water?

I thought the part about Jack obsessed with finding out Sarah's boyfriend's name was a bit weird. I thought Sarah was tormenting him (inadvertently maybe) by not just telling him if Jack thought it was such a big deal. Not such a big secret ("his name's Dave, he works for Bank of America"). I guess she could have been afraid Jack would find him and attack but if he was really motivated he could easily find out. Jack could have hired someone to find out who Sarah's boyfriend was and the private detective would have done a better job, although maybe the whole father thing was too embarrassing. Maybe he's just got to do everything himself, as someone mentioned above.

Potential concerns for the season: too many fan inside references like the skinner box?; how the imprisonment/interrogation suggestions of guantanamo/detainees will work out

mc gainey referred to bears solving the box faster than sawyer although the box looked a bit small for a polar bear.

i thought it was interesting how quickly jack fell apart while imprisoned while sawyer and kate seemed to remain closer to normal (for them). Maybe because kate and sawyer are used to incarceration while jack only spent a couple hours in jail for punching his dad or maybe jack can't hand le the loss of control?

Generally a good episode shifting to keep things new. Looking forward to the podcast.

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

I generally liked the episode. I don't think Jack is underwater. I think he's in the basement of that building next to where Sawyer was being kept. I think it was a set up/trap to see what he would do.

If I were Jack, I would have opened the door. If I were Kate, I would not have stripped and taken a shower. If I were Sawyer, I wouldn't have bothered playing their mind games until I was hungry.

[Fish Biscuit]

FYI - ABC has posted a new VIDEO PODCAST from
Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse.

http://abc.go.com/fsp/index.html?channel=Lost&clip=114441

[Mike in the Box]

I had posted these comments on the previous topic thread because there was not a new one up yet, but here are my thoughts:

some thoughts:

1) confirmation that Dharma is not operational
2) something happened to kate between her breakfast meeting with Ben and her trip to the cage.
3) confirmation of an underwater hatch.
4) two bears have better problem solving skills than sawyer.

two things i noticed.

1) juliet and ben were at one point a couple. there is a tension between them and this will be exacerbated when she eventually falls for jack.
2) the scene when sawyer pushed the button and got shocked was not the same as the one that leaked. I wonder why they changed it.

one more thing:

what is up with special web stuff for american express holders? hope to see that on youtube later.

Gonna sit down and watch it again.
------
RE: the leaked Sawyer getting shocked scene...

I actually thought that after juliet zapped sawyer he would wake up and go through the motions again and this time for some reason say that guys name (Carl). Then Zeke (Tom) would say something like, ah now he's starting to get it...
--------

I cannot claim any of this as my own, but found these while searching the forums.

RE: the book club.

Bea, the woman from the season finale is at the book club. Not only that, but the book that Juliet so passionately described as her "favorite" book is "Carrie" by Stephen King.

Remember when Locke gives Benry a copy of Bros. Karamazov and Benry says "you don't have any king?"

Here is a link to the pic:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/mmbox7/bookclub.jpg

Why is "Carrie" significant? it is about a girl with telekinetic powers. Maybe (and this is just speculation) maybe she is reading Jack's mind.

Ok, here is another find:

A screencap of the village.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/mmbox7/village.jpg

A screencap of the Hydra logo as seen from Sawyer's cage.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/mmbox7/hydra.jpg

And this one is mine:
RE: The location of Kate, Sawyer and Jack in relation to each other.

Obviously Kate and Sawyer were not very far from each other, could be possible that the locker room where she showered was in the building Sawyer was looking at. Could also be that Jack's "aquarium" was in that building. When Sawyer "escaped" he ran right into Juliet who was leaving Jack's underwater dungeon.

[I_Love_Sayid]

woohoo! video podcast from dl & cc

[I_Love_Sayid]

oh, i just realized i was wrong about Juliet getting Jack to do what she asked twice and then not giving him any food or water, as i posted before. i did'nt realize that when she was leaving the room she was comming around and opening the door from the outside...boy the set was disorienting. that kind of changes my perspective on her.

[I_Love_Sayid]

why am i unable to download the official lost video poscast from the abc site? it's not even on itunes. am i missing something?

[Matt Lafferty]

Fish Biscuit,
Yeah, as others pointed out, our chitchatting started on the other thread at 10:15 last night.

Here's a few of my thoughts reposted and edited from the other thread:

Introducing the Others as uber civilized was a nice twist (though not exactly uber suprising). The plane crash was spectacular. Henry/Ben's urgency at sending Ethan and Goodwin was notable. The fact that he had a plan ready was interesting too.

His meal with Kate, and Zeke/Tom calling Henry/Ben (okay, I'm officially calling them Tom and Ben forever and ever now) "him" seems to suggest that indeed Ben is The Him--same thing with the book club, and the comments about Ben liking or not liking the book and Juliet thinking that there was still free will (free will to disagree with Ben). The comment about the "next two weeks" being tough suggest to me that's the 6 week story arc. And in rethinking since last night, I definitely think that something happened to Kate in between eating and being put in the cage--like she was tortured. Bagels didn't cause the cuts on her wrists, and when she gets caged she does look emotionally broken.

The whole bit with Sawyer was interesting... a little comedic, but definitely lots of heartfelt emotion when he saw Kate. Oh, and was is cell buddy the Brazillian actor? He didn't look like much of a Brazillian Tom Cruise!

Juliet's dolphin comment ("dolphins too" in the aquarium cell where they're keeping Jack) seemed a bit out of place... one of those "hey, now it makes sense when way back she mentioned dolphins" things.

Overall... lots of questions, and a good start. Good, but not great: not quite the gravitas of the season 2 opener. Not that I'm complaining (and I'm certainly not saying "jump the shark"). It just feels like a slightly odd episode--which is par for the course, I suppose, considering we didn't have castaway beach or the rest of the survivors or anything.

A random prediction: Zeke is homosexual--I think his comment and chuckle about Kate not being his type was a little plant to suggest that. Why, you ask? The show has people of all races, religions, etc... maybe the creators figure why not?

Now some analysis with the beloved map. If, from Othersville, the fuselage crashed to the left and the tail crashed to the right... and if the fuselage crashed rougly around the Swan, and the tail around the Arrow... and the Arrow is, on the map, at the 12 o'clock position and the Swan is at 6, then we're on the mysterious 3 o'clock area of the map.

I'm guessing that if it's on the map, then Othersville is near C3, and that C3 is the location of the Hydra Station. (C3 being closer to the Arrow and presumed tail crash, with Goodwin only being a hours run from the crash.) 'Course, that also feeds into theory that's being hung onto by... well, me, that the Pearl is C4, not the center of the island.

My last thought, which I've had while rewatching: I'm glad that when Jack let the water in, there wasn't a Dharmashark. I don't like sharks.

Namaste!

[jg]

I can already see 2 factions in the Others.

1) The culture at large. This is controlled by Ben (Fenry) and his lock stepping disciples (Ian,Goodwin,Tom and other background gun toting grim looking characters). Perhaps Ben controls them by a "Cult of Personality" though I expect something far more nefarious. The neat village seems contrived and creepy. Ben's manners, clean pressed clothing and gourmet breakfast make him all the more sinister. He and his disciples are bad. They easily kill and kidnap people. They are all probably trained in hand to hand combat. Witness Ian's fighting ability and Juliet's swift KO of Jack. They all can weild a Tazer with ease (I don't think these are weapons easily distributed to or used by the average untrained person)

2) The revolutionaries. These people would be like Juliet and Alex. People who chafe under Ben's dispicable power. Juliet's sarcastic comment during the book club, "Here I am, thinking freewill actually still exists.",speaks to her opinion that freewill doesn't exist in their world and that Ben is responsible for this state of affairs.

Lastly, I think there are clues to the agelessness of these Others. Juliet refers to "what we used to be" (refering to Jack's DHARMA comment) and I would find it odd that a 20-30 something,i.e. Juliet, would find a 1964 Petula Clark song pickable music.

[Cameron]

Now that was worth waiting for! I take back all the complaints I made about the S2 finale. After such a long break, what a lot to discuss in the next podcast!

Some great ideas posted here already. Especially re Juliet and Ben being a couple at one point. My contributions:

- The day that we see the others hanging around in Othersville they look like they aren't working. My initial thought was that this looks like typical Saturday or Sunday activity. But it is supposed to be 22 September 2004, which was a Wednesday. Do the others have any kind of working week? I notice from the water bottle and sauce (ketchup) that they are living off DHARMA supplies.

- Is is just me, or does Othersville have some possible hints of Jonestown, Guyana?

- If the cage that Sawyer is was originally for bears, why paint a knife and fork on the large button - why not a picture of a fish? Hell, even half of what I eat these days doesn't require a knife and fork!

[I_Love_Sayid]

Matt, Othersville doesn't have to be in the 3:00 position on the blast door map...it can be in the center!

http://www.geocities.com/colwildr/OthersvilleMap.html?1160083206468

Please let me know if my link doesn't work. I through it up hastily.

[I_Love_Sayid]

haha...threw it up, i mean

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

My co-worker noted that "Downtown" was written by a guy named Tony Hatch. I miss the hatch and it's retro-ness.

Is it just me or do the others give off the same vibe the jedis did in Attack of the Clones? I mean a whole clone army was built under their noses - compared to Danielle's signal broadcasting for 16 years and they seemed surprised in the previews for next week about Desmond's boat. Is there a dark side of the island clouding them?

Wow...that was an incredibly geeky observation. I must admit.

[Loren]

Alright, since others are re-posting their ideas from the previous comment section, I suppose I will too:

Wow, good episode!

I actually was a little disappointed with the flashback... i feel like it didn't really reveal a whole lot except to re-display jack's obsessiveness and his crying-abilities. I do agree with MeMissAnaLucia when she said that we saw how Jack pushed his father back into drinking, but i just feel like the flashback really didn't provide any 'wow' moments.

The opening sequence was awesome! Sadly, I was completely fooled until I saw the plane and even for a second there i thought, "What?? How is the plane over a neighborhood? Oh, nevermind, whoa!" Good stuff. I am also a huge fan of the coin "Othersville" :)

I was incredibly excited to finally see the underwater hatch, which I have been waiting for since season one! I agree, Matt, that the dolphin comment seemed a little strange. I thought, during the episode, that Carl was a staged other to try to lure Sawyer into disobedience, but the more i think about it, the less likely it semms. I'm not sure why. I guess I've just gotten used to always second guessing myself on Lost.

Did anyone recognize the man who Sarah was with? Did anyone catch which Stephen King book Juliette was reading? Did anyone think that the commercials were kind of over-running the show?

Do you think that jack really heard his father's voice from the "communicate" box or that he was just really really hungry? I'd like to believe that the others had jack's life so infiltrated that they have recordings of things like that to mess with him. But that would be rather extreme stalking, even for the others. Although, i could pull this back to my "the whispers are the black smoke monster" theory, but I'll hold off on that one for now.

On one final note, over on the fuselage, people have started to call Fenry/Ben 'Benry' now, which I think is an awesome name :)

I'm glad we only have to wait a week now, not another 4 months!

[mark b]

Could Carl be a tallie that was taken ?

Sawyer wouldn't know him if he was. But then just perhaps Carl would mention the fact of how he got to the island if not ask Sawyer how he got there.

Was the fact that some tallies were taken mentioned in the 'previously on Lost' section ? Or was I dreaming that.

Certainly if I'd been Carl and/or Sawyer I would have spoken a bit more than they did -- but Carl didn't seem like the chatty type !

[Jack+Sayid=DurtyIslandLuv]

I thought it was a great ep. Some key points:

--The civilized others wasn't surpising at all, but I thought it was interesting that they lived in a picket-fence 1950's style suburb community. This seeems to me as more evidence of a Utopia project gone awry.

--I think we can put the two groups of Others officially to rest.

--Jack's Dad and Sarah are definitly up to something but my money is it is NOT what Jack thinks. It might be even worse. And I'm sure its the reason why Christian went to Australia.

--The Others seem to be in contact with the outside world. How else could they have assembled a dossier on Jack after not even knowing his name when the plane crashed?

--In light of the producers saying that this season our preception of time on the island will change, I'd like to throw a new twist out there. The Others are the Losties. The Losties are the Others. The plane crash keeps happening over and over again with the next group growing up to become the kidknappers.

[matt beale]

How Cool was the opening!!?!?!!!?

Finally sat down to watch tonight, 24 hrs after you Yanks ;)

Also, watched episode on Laptop with headphones - how many cool animal noise's could you hear during Sawyers scenes...(and what sounded like Whale noises in Jacks scenes after water hatch)

Sawyers scenes looks like an old Zoo..... Kind of reminded me of Jurassic Park/Lost World with an abanonded Zoo etc, with the cages, covered walkways etc etc...

[Errockk]

Awesome preimere! I think Sayid is going to cap some others with his AK next week.

[Paul]

I've never posted here before, but I'd advise most of you to check out youtube, and search for 'Hanso foundation' there's a video from the lost experience (Interactive web game by the creators of lost) which reveals a lot of stuff.

It tells you what the numbers mean.

It tells you what the Dharma Iniative was set-up for and what the stations are for.

And it tells you what the Hanso Foundation are up to now, although after that video the guy in charge gets caught. So they're supposedly not up to bad things at the moment.

The fact that the Hydra station is underwater/cages, proves they were doing experiments on animals. The next question is, are the Others the Scientists from the Dharma Iniative? Or are they other survivors? The question's already been raised I know but, they know so much about the hatch's etc I'd guess a few of them were Scientists, maybe not all though. As the ones who don't seem so keen to kill etc, maybe they weren't scientists, they were either, - brought up by the others and born on the island, or - survivors from other planes etc.

[AVDJ]

I wonder if Kate is being forced to help the others, and that she will be made to hurt Sawyer to help Jack, (or vice versa,) and that is how she will "choose" who she loves.

Also, I am beginning to wonder if the blast door map is less a physical representation of the island as it is some sort of way to organize the discoveries made about dharma. You know how in some cities, a subway map isn't a physical map, but made simply to show how things are connected?

I think last night was the first time we got an areal shot of the island. Also, there could be more than one island. Also, I am a nerd.

[LOSTY Is Talking everyone quiet.]

I couldent find a foothold for my intrest for a season opener i was dissapointed kinda like when you open up a 12 oz to see if you won a contest and there is a code on top of it so to see if you win you have to go on the internet.

Nothing amazing was reviled I knew they had to live somewhere on the island whats the big deal about them living in houses. This weeks episode of lost was cold porrage. The next week on lost thing was more exciting than it. I hope that next weeks is better. by the way you might want to learn about a enlightenment thinker named john locke I am not going to tell you about him now because i dont have the time but I will tell you he has alot of the same charicteristics of the bald man closest On lost.

[Cihan]

1] Loved the Pavlovian trickery with Sawyer, haha.

2] Zeke saying 'not my type'. I think the initial reaction is to assume he's gay but my initial reaction was "his type is Others". I mean we literally see a red herring in this episode, so I think the episode was full of them.

3] I think the writers inexplicably mixed Carrie with The Stand in the opening scene, very clever. Carrie for the characters, The Stand throwaway for viewers.

4] Cant think of anything that hasnt already been mentioned, but its good to be posting here again!

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

AVDJ - I like your map theory.

Also, when was the last time we heard any whispers?

[Cihan]

The scene between Kate and Benry (I know, I cant help myself) really reminded me of a scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark, with Marion and Belloq. You know the scene, with a new unwanted dress for the lady.

And I'm still pondering Juliet's scene in the beginning, she was pretty shook up. Maybe upset about her breakup with Ben, maybe pangs of guilt at her role on the island, who knows. I also have this feeling that everyone's names arent their real name's, anytime they mention each other's it just feels like part of a charade. But I guess considering all the hijinks the Others pulled last season, its not surprising I'm wary of their every action.

Felt for poor Jack this episode, sooner or later he's going to have to let go of the past, but it hasnt been long since the crash, plenty of emotional torture/character arc left! What with the I Ching floating around and Taoist references strewn over the island, it wont be long till he realises how to move on, I hope. It will probably be the Hollywood route of finding another love to replace the one he lost though, rather than the eastern spiritual route of freeing himself from desire and attachment. Prove me wrong JJ and Lindelof!

[Midnight]

Did anyone else think the sound of that water-lock door opening sounded a lot like the monster? Maybe just my imagination...

[Mike in the Box]

I know I am a hater, but Jack annoyed me in this episode. If the story revolves around Jack you can rest assured that he will at some point be crying: on the beach, in the jungle, in a cave, in a hatch, or in a subteranean dungeon. Jack may be a central figure but his character is very one sided. he is either emotionally distraught or trying to run things.

another thought, I never refer to my friends by their first names when i am talking to them. the others do this all the time. season two finale, tom calls ms. klugh "bea". juliet calls the book club guy, "andy". and at the end of the episode benry says something like, "good job juliet." the constant naming of each other seems odd and a bit contrived. is it just me or is this unusual to you guys too?

[Mike in the Box]

Yeah yeah, i am posting a lot, sorry, i just have a lot of thoughts.

I found the Stephen King connection interesting. I have thought for a while that there appears to be a "Stand" and "Dark Tower" connection. The connection to the latter presented itself in this episode.

When Juliet is talking to Jack about the file. She tells him they know everything, every detail. This reminded me of the Dark Tower series when they realized that King was literally writing them into existence. Father Callahan (Wolves of the Call) Discovers that there is a story that reveals so much about him that it could not be fictional coincidence.

The thought is a huge stretch, but made my mind wander in the direction of a writer creating these characters. In a st. Elswhere type of situation or otherwise.

I dunno, just speculating the crap out of this episode.

I wonder why my wife says i am obsessed with this show.

[Kris Wright, Aberdeen]

This may be insane, but when I was joking around with my GF during the episode, we thought of two Smoke Monster moments, but we weren't being serious. One, the sound of the Hydra door opening sounded extremely like it.
But the second, I was thinking about the Monster spliting the plane in half as a joke, because it seemed kind of out-of-the-blue from the exterior perspective. But now it doesn't seem so insane:
http://www.thetailsection.com/ScreenCaps/lost.3x01.003.jpg

The back of the plane looks suspiciously like when the Monster appeared in the Season 1 Finale (when they chucked the dynamite).

It's probably not, but the blackness seems unlike the rest of the jetstreams in that picture.

[Jack+Sayid=DurtyIslandLuv]

BTW just for everyone's information, our new friend Julliet once played Angelina Jolie's lesbian lover in a Showtime movie.

And yes there were love scenes.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0123865/

[riverfr0zen]

@ I Love Sayid:

I like your map, but the angle between fuselage and tail section points seems a little wide - check out the screen cap here of the greatest vantage point shown of Othersville:

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l213/riverfr0zen/lost_other.jpg

Still possible though, given a slightly different scale. Anyway, I find that shot quite interesting. For example, look at how Othersville is on this plateau. Quite strategic, even, one may say.

Re: Saywer v.s. the bears - hmm, I smell something ... fishy :) Notice that the button for food has a 'knife and fork' symbol painted on it. Why would this be necessary in a cage for a bear? Rather, I get the feeling the reference to bears is just something Tom made up to belittle Sawyer.

Unless of course ... polar bears with chimplike intelligence! I wouldn't put it past 'em :)

[Matt Lafferty]

I Love Sayid,
You are absolutely, absolutely right in saying that the middle of the island could be Othersville. In fact, as I was typing my little bit about the map, it had crossed my mind, so I certainly salute you for not accepting my blathering at face value. I love the map, I love studying the map, and the first time LostCasts was kind enough to read a comment of mine, it was a map comment. I have a certain view of the map which I gleefully try to push (The Pearl isn't the center!), and I appreciate you poking a few holes in this intellectual exercise.

And holy smokes... I just saw on your map that you suggest that the Hydra is located at the "Heavy Water Table" area (7 o'clock). I'll support ya by pointing out that The Map also says that it's an "Aborted #7"--maybe a 7th station? Just because we've seen 3 of 6 doesn't mean they couldn't have a seventh, right?

Loren,
Glad you reposted on this thread. I was a bit leery to do it myself, but you know what? Let's officially call it a-ok to do!

Mark B,
Love the "Carl is a tailie" theory. Maybe Carl didn't say much because he was concerned Sawyer was an Other plant?

DurtyIslandLuv,
Definitely agree that the Others still have contact with the outside world. The Hurley air drop suggested it; to me, the water bottle that Juliet had nailed it. Ain't no water bottles in the past they way there are now! I don't know if I'm going for your "Others are Losties, Losties are Others" time loop theory... yet. I'm officially filing it away as an ultra cool Twilight Zone kind of zinger. And we know JJ Abrams wanted a Twilight Zone kinda flavor.

Cihan,
Nice idea that Zeke's type is "Other." Heh, which sounds kinda funny. But it's getting late here. Nice idea!

Kathy,
The last time we heard the whispers was the skypecast :-P Seriously, the last official time was when Jack et all were abducted in the season 2 finale. But I'll just throw out there that the speakerbox "hallucination" was kinda whisperish....

Mike, (wow, lots of great comments from everyone that I'm compelled to respond to!)
I agree that Jack was rather annoying. Nothing against Matthew Fox--he does a great job--but the character is starting to grate against me. Plus, he's wrong a lot: think back to his "interesting theory" that he gave to Zeke. Completely wrong theory.

Lastly... wasn't it cool how when they were discussing the shallow nature of the Stephen King book, one that was "by the numbers," they were kind of echoing criticism on the show?!

HOLY HECK, Riverfrozen!
I just clicked on your link, and I've had an epiphany. Look at the mountains, from the right side, then how they curl around toward the screen, then to the left and back around again.

Question mark, perhaps?

Me bedtime now.

[jg]

I thought the opening sequence was the best part of the show. We actually learn much about the Others.

I agree that Ben clearly had a plan when he told Ethan and Goodwin to take off toward the wrecks. I thought he was looking up a bit prematurely for... like, say a plane. Interesting that the runners were sent out not to help anyone but to infiltrate the survivors groups and make lists. Lists of what? Goodwin and Ethan clearly knew what he meant (good people of course).

By the way,(from the panorama),in looking at the closest crash site, Goodwin must be a pretty fast runner to make it in an hour.

Cheers.
jg

[oldmangout]

I must be pretty dense, but I still can't figure out what "Two Cities" the title of the show is referring to..... please help, it's keeping me awake!

[riverfr0zen]

@Matt Lafferty

OMG - you're right. The hills - they could very well form a question mark. Good catch!

[riverfr0zen]

@oldmangout: Most common idea (including suggested by the official vidcast) is that the 'Two Cities' references the two camps - the Losties and the Others.

[oldmangout]

riverfr0zen:

I guess that could be, but wouldn't that mean they should have shown the losties camp at some point during the episode? thanks for the answer tho!

[riverfr0zen]

@oldmangout: Yes, I agree. You could say Jack, Kate and Sawyer were 'representing' the other city, but I admit it seems somewhat superficial. I've also read on somewhere on forums that the 'Two Cities' is not a literal reference to two parties, but rather a reference to an aspect of the *storyline* of Charles Dickens' 'A Tale of Two Cities'. Something about a love triangle and one dude dying (I haven't read the book), which may relate to Jack, Kate and Sawyer.

[Snow]

I'm not sure who said it, but I haven't ruled out two groups of "others." We don't know who else is out there or why.

I wonder if Juliette got Jack's "file" by communicating with Dharma staff who are "offsite" after the crash or if each of the people on the plane were hand picked by Dharma beforehand? Are there holes in the theory that everyone was picked pre-plane ride? Dharma knew the trajectory of the plane would travel over the island . . . turn on (or off) the magnet and viola! plane crash. I wonder if the "others" new that a plane was going to crash with new "subjects" on it, but just didn't know when?

I think the others will use the relationship between Sawyer and Kate to play them against each other . . . a.k.a. How far can Sawyer or Kate be pushed? How long will Sawyer starve before he will let Kate be hurt or abused by the others? That kind of thing. Psychological experiments.

I think Ben would like Jack to join them. He is in isolation. Sawyer and Kate are not. Ever heard of kidnapped persons identifying with their captors? Jack is a physician and relatively intelligent . . . maybe Benry could use him on the team.

Is the aquarium separate from the ocean area around the island? Is the ocean area around the island enclosed? How? Is there a separate aquarium underground on the island? Why would there be a random door that if opened lets all of the water in???? Not a great design if you ask me. What would the purpose for that door be?

I maintain that Widmore has a presence on that island . . . the balloon, the birth control . . . the writers probably put those things into the show for a reason . . . just don't know what the reason is yet.

Did anyone ever wonder why at the beginning of season one that Jack ended up in the middle of the jungle after the plane crash? What, did he fly out of the plane and land there? I've always thought that was strange.

I don't think Sara is happy . . . I think Juliette just said that. I don't know why . . . but I don't think Sara is happy. I don't even think that Juliette knows if Sara is happy.

OK. I guess that is all for now. Thoughts?

[Cameron]

Here is another take on the 'two cities' reference in the title. I know that the official vidcast gave the nod to the Dickens book, but there is also a 5th century work entitled 'City of God' by Augustine which I recall from undergrad legal theory. It deals with two cities, the City of God and the City of Man. Here is an excerpt from the Wikipedia entry:

-----

The book presents human history as being a conflict between what Augustine calls the City of God and the City of Man (a conflict that is destined to end in victory for the former). The City of God is marked by people who forego earthly pleasure and dedicate themselves to the promotion of Christian values. The City of Man, on the other hand, consists of people who have strayed from the City of God. The two cities are not meant to represent any actual places or organisations, though Augustine clearly thought that the Christian Church was at the heart of the City of God.

-----

No prizes for guessing where the others think they are at...

[matt beale]

Did anyone notice when they were running out of their houses at start (after the 'earthquake') people were shouting "Whats the source?"

Inresting!

[Mike Harris]

Anybody notice that whilst Jack is watching Sarah from the comfort of his car, the music that I presume is on his car stereo is the same music that Sayid and Hurley picked up on the radio on the beach during their starry-eyed moment?? Not sure if this is of any cosequence?

[Rene]

Do you guys remember when Ben/Henry Said" Not even god can find this Island" ? anybody ever wonder how the "Others" found the island?

The First Episode where they watch the fim in the hatch, did you ever notice the man smoking in the office window looked allot like "Jacks" father?

After looking at this new area view of the island, the (Others) camp is dead smack in the the Center of the island, Now water is around the island. How far to you think it took kate to walk to have breakfast with (Ben/Henry)?

Also if they are in the center of the island (The Others) where would the Hyrda be? would it be in the center near the village or closer to the beach. Because that view seems like atleast a 10 hour walk in either direction if not more.

Season 2 (Ending) - The guy in the Hatch with Desmond, wasnt he with Syeed and kates father in the army?

What do you think....?

[Jur]

Questions ! Are the Others still in Othersville ?? Or in the (what looks like) the Zoo ??
When does the cockpit parts from the fuselage ??

[Mark B]

If the flashbacks Jack is obsessive to the point of stalking Sarah but at the end of the episode he appears to be over it asking if she was 'happy' when earlier he wanted the mans name and appeared to go to any length to get it -- other than hire a private detective -- but I guess that's Jack for you, can't delegate anything.

I found it kind of funny to the point of unrealistic that he got over the whole Sarah leaving just like that or has the island changed him ?

Has Jack reached his watershed moment like Shannon, Ana-Lucia and Boone .......?

[mike]

Please don't call him "Benry" now. Just call him Ben. That's his name.

WTF were those things hanging down from that tented walkway that Kate and Mr. Friendly were walking under? They don't look like lights.

[Cihan]

I personally dont think Jack is over Sarah, it doesnt take a simple question/answer to resolve something like that. I think when he was told she was happy it made him feel even worse. She's happy with another man, not him. He's not grown so much in 60 days (or however long it is) that he can free himself from the attachment of the woman he loved.

Least I hope the writers will handle his emotional story with some semblance of realism, better for us as viewers too to see him develop. I'm sure the next 2 weeks in the story will see alot of development...

Also@Matt, when I said Zeke's type is Other, I meant that we know they dont consider the Losties 'good' and have to give them injections, so its not that he has a particular type, its that he thinks himself not compatible with the survivors in particular. Or maybe he's gay, haha.

[Preston]

I rewatched it this morning before going to bed and I noticed something I didn't first time. When the others are in their houses and the earthquake type thing happens, they all come running out and are looking up into the sky for a plane before the plane even comes into view.

This must mean they knew that the plane was coming, so I still think it was a setup. Like the others were just waiting for them to arrive, as soon as the plane crashes Ben goes into boss mode and gives out the orders like they have practice this all before.

[Paul Bacon]

Im sure the patient Jack was seeing in the hospital was Mr Fake Beard. Just another lost character connection

[Paul Bacon]

I think its natural to look up after something like that. I know if something i cant explain happens, i always look into the sky. Doesnt make sense really but its a natural reaction for me

[Cihan]

BTW the others didnt look straight up when they left their houses, they first looked at each other and the sorrounding area, then once we heard the droning sound above, they looked up. So the plane crash indeed was not planned by them, but we know by now that the island does attract boats and planes so they probably had a plan on how to deal with shipwrecked survivors, etc.

[OldManGout]

You know, I rewatched it too, and I think they were responding to a noise.....I heard it, and to be honest, there SHOULD be a noise in the air from a plane that close to the ground getting ready to crash. From engines whirring to the fuselage breaking up, all of that would create noise above them requiring them to look up.

As far as Jack being "over" Sarah....the time frame suggests that it has been a while (after this "past" episode, he still has to narc on Christian and Christian still has to die - I would assume that that would be a pretty long process) so there's no reason to suggest that by this time he hasn't accepted the fact that his marriage is over and has reached the point where all he cares about is the happiness of the one woman he loved. It happens in real life too!

Othersville VS. Hydra: I would hazard a guess that they are two different facilities. Particularly since they are apparently close to the water. And besides, why in the world would you want to put a, presumably, animal testing facility so close to a suburban community. Would YOU want to live where you work?

I think the whole concept of the crash and its occupants being predetermined is pretty retarded, especially keeping in mind that the whole incident with Desmond was obviously an accident. I will concede that they still haven't established beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Desmond incident was "THE" reason the plane crashed, but the fact remains that those two incidents seem largely related.

I do not think that Benry knew the crash was going to happen, I think he's just showing good leadership and decision making abilities - the kind you would need to lead in a situation like the Others'. I'm sure he did something similar for the baloon crash as well.

I'm kinda wondering how long ago the DHARMA Initiative was seemingly abandoned - definitely within the past 15 years. I mean, 3 years ago Desmond came to the island and went into the hatch. How long was Inman on his own? He admitted that he was with Dharma which would indicate that it was up and running at least 15 years ago (after the first Gulf War). I'm guessing it's been inactive for about 5 or 6 years at this point in the show since Inman and his original buddy were left in the hatch so long.

Has anyone noticed that all the hatch names are pretty prominent Greek/Roman mythological symbols? Added to that the Egyptian symbology and the 4-toed statue.....I'm really leaning towards Atlantis.

[OldManGout]

one last thing, like I said, I rewatched the episode with these, and many other forums, in mind.....the dude in the bed is totally NOT M.C. Gainey!!

[Cihan]

OldManGout, you're right in that a long time has passed since Jack's encounter with Sarah but the fact that he's still having flashbacks about her suggests to me he's still not past it. Maybe he's on the 'road to recovery' now, but still far from completely past it. I mean if Sarah pops up in an episode soon you just know he's not just going to be "Hey, hows it going? I'm totally over you!", etc.

Also, I dont think Karl (or whatever his name is) in the cage opposite from Sawyer was a mole or anything like that, I mean the questions he asked Sawyer would make no sense coming from someone with an ulterior motive. Not only do the Others already know the info Karl wanted, but Sawyer is well aware by now that the Others already know the answers too. I am leaning towards him being a tailie, but he could be an Other who simply pissed off the rest of the gang and wants out.

[OldManGout]

I should probably shut up soon, but I did have one last thought.....I'm starting to think that the Others, through DHARMA-ic experiments, are a little genetically enhanced. I mean, Ethan is super-monkey strong; Juliette knocks Jack out with just 1 punch and is able to pull him around like a rag doll (like when she pulled him from the water and she had to get him back in the observation area somehow); and Goodwin can run like 10 miles through jungle in less than an hour and is totally NOT winded!! Keeping in mind all of the stuff that the Lost Experience revealed this summer (like the stuff with Joop and all the fountain of youth type info) I think this is highly probable.

[OldManGout]

Cihan, I didn't mean to suggest that he's totally over her, but I think that he's accepted the fact that she's moved on without him. I've gone through similar stuff and even though I'm in a very happy relationship, I still have flashbacks to things that went wrong in the past. It's what brought me to where I am now, made me the person I am, and made my current situation possible. Too deep?

I've always wondered though, are the flashbacks on the show happening to the flashbacker at that moment, or are they showing it to us for our benefit? Maybe to justify and give back story to his final question about Sarah? I tend to think along those lines. Like the flashback sections of the show are there just to explain the final reveal at the end of each episode......

I think Carl is a Tailie.....

[Chris Mavis-UK]

I really enjoyed that episode interesting to see that the others were really putting the tent thing on. Also as always Sawyer provides us with some comedic value even in an episode so serious. Why was Sawyer saying Karl editted out? was it because it was shown before he was formaly introduced as Karl.
!I think Karl might be an other!

[OldManGout]

oh, and I don't think the woman in the book club was Bea.....just because she's black doesn't mean she's the same woman....the facial structure is totally different.

[Cihan]

I agree with you about Jack/Sarah, OldManGout. :)

About the flashback thing though, I personally think they're in the moment, just the vibe I get between the end of the flashback and then the cut to a close up of a character's face. In this episode we had Jack in a car, then the sound of cars driving by which continues into the present scene of Jack who flinches awake. I think its meant to signify to the viewer that that is what's on his mind.

The flashbacks are usually thematically tied to the present and I think the characters are thinking of the past BECAUSE of whats happening in the present and at the end of the episode they have to choose to continue as they've always done or make the choice to act differently.

[JB]

I did not read all of the coments so I do not know if anyone has brought this up, but was it just me or were there crocheted Dharma logos above the door to the kitchen in Juliette's house?

Also, I think that the purpose of capturing Jack, Kate, and Sawyer at this time, is for experiment. They are the 3 strongest willed people of the survivors, and if they can break those three down to their primal level and make them submit, then they can let those three go and they can control the rest of the lostie's.

I do not think it will get to that point because they will get rescued. I do not think that one of the other's will turn. Russo will help Sayid, Jin, and Locke recuse them.

Overall, good for a premier. You can't have too much for the first episode.

[OldManGout]

Does anyone think that they decided against taking Locke because Benry saw how easily he was manipulated? And no Sayid because he would actually be too dangerous (being ex-military and all)?

[OldManGout]

Cihan, good points, I'll pay better attention next week :)

[Rebecca]

Just wanted to throw this out for comments. I think the Others are grooming Jack to join them. Maybe all of them, but I think just Jack. I don't know, maybe they need a new doctor? But when Jack and Juliette are talking and she tells him, "It doesn't matter who we were, it only matters who we are." I think she was really saying that when you're an Other, your past is unimportant because the only thing that matters is your mission as an Other. Sounds very military, break you down to build you back up into what the group needs you to be. "We know who you are Jack" might as well have been finished with "but the question is are you willing to let all of this go and become one of us?"

I know people have speculated that the big surprise at the end of the 6 episodes is going to be a Jack turn to the "dark side", maybe this is setting that up?

[ChiefKujo]

The logo on the water bottles and the shark are the same (single horizontal line).

[Mark B]

Rebecca : I like the idea of the Others trying to get Jack to 'join' them however I don't think this will be the cliff-hanger. Jack turning to the 'dark side' will be a slow process not a sudden thing which make good cliff hangers. Perhaps he'll do something which is the cliff-hanger.

Also, given the Lost 'status' for names, any speculation on the family names Ben and Juliet ? Or why the names Ben and Juliet were chosen ? The only Juliet I can think of is the one with Romeo which was as everybody knows a tragic love story where two people from different and opposing familes fell in love and eventually both died.

[Chris Mavis-UK]

Just a thought I had now is there any significance as to why Jack said he was a repo man insted of a doctor?

[Drynn_03]

I did not enjoy the Season 3 premier. I believe it is due to the juxtaposition of Suburbanites and Terrorists. It did not work for me at all. The quaint book club meeting quickly disolved into apt and able psychological torturers. To me this whole episode weakend what I thought of the "Others". Unless there is just some massive reveal that makes you go "OH SH*T" wow I did not see that coming, I am begining to think that we have either way overthought this show(which is understadable) or our expectations can not be matched by the writers. I hope that is not the case, But Wednesday night's show has left me with a Desperate Houswives meets 24 Hour taste in my mouth and that is not why I watch Lost.......

[Challabuck]

Solid stuff for sure. Lots already said here, but I will emphasize a few thoughts:

1) The opening eye shot. Clearly, now we know it's a technique to introduce a -- or maybe the-- key character for the year. Season 1 brought us Jack's eye, while Season 2 was Desmond's. Now we have Juliette's.

2) The first 5 minutes was indeed amazing. So amazing that the remaining 35 minutes felt almost too subdued, although I'll grant that it was as powerful as (prison) cell-based drama can be.

3) Chris Mavis-UK: I was wondering the same question. All I can think is that Jack in his own head is not the repo man, but the victim of a repo man: the unknown man who "stole" his wife. He's like someone who has kept up with his car payments but is amazed when strangers come to cart off his Benz.

[uhmh66]

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere - wasn't "Downtown" the same song Desmond played in the S2 opener before the hatch was blown open by Locke? If so, are there any thoughts as to the significance either of the song, the era, or a link to Juliet?

[Vera]

Well, at least we know that there are still desant showers on the island.
This show is just too cool for television.
Kate and Sawyer where in a catche just one day and they already showt affection in an more animal way: sharing food :P

[Vaibhav]

First things first... Wooooo Hoooo!!! All new Lost!!!!!!!!

I had tried really hard (and thought I'd done enough) to avaoid spoilers... but just the first line of episode article on wikipedia and one glance at the pics posted at the end, were enough to ensure I missed out on the shock that my brother received when he realised that "Pleasantville" was actually "Othersburg"!!!

But nonetheless... the plane break-up scene was both unexpected and spectacular...

Now then.... even though we don't know where the story is going yet (duh!!), personally, I liked the mystique that the Others had before we saw them dealing with burnt muffins and plumbing problems!
Come on!! its just the Manhattan Project all over again!! They aren't hiding from the authorities!! The Others are Government employees!!!!!

'nough said on that.

Episode reactions: Well, i think the best part lasted just 4 minutes and 20 seconds... the first 4 mins and 20 seconds of the show... things got pretty tame after that! I'll take pains to avoid the obvious metaphor here... but hey!! the best should be saved for the last! or better still, another twist at the end!!

Facts:
1. DHARMA is gone... the Others know about DHARMA but weren't responsible for it.
Thats no small info!!
So it seems that the Others weren't responsible for it... and they don't particularly like to talk about it... perhaps they were its victims in some way? lots of possibilities here but not much to base actual theories on...

2. The Others are in touch with significantly resourceful people OFF the island (the Government or some intelligence agency... they don't have some "mystical" power... they don't just "know"... they get printed official reports! Man of Science: 1 Man of Faith: 0

3. Despite their resourceful connections...The Others did not plan to crash the plane. Nobody was "Chosen" to be brought to the Island.
Now this is interesting coz this separates the "supernatural" elements of the mythology from the Others, who actually seem like "Nerds gone Wild"...

4. The plane crash... though unexpected... presented an opportunity to them. An opportunity for what? who knows?

5. Theres an army kind of a set up in place behind the civilian dressing... The Book Club Others seem like military scientists/doctors... they carry sidearm type gizmos.... below these are Tom and the SeaBillies... who are armed with "real" weapons... kind of like enlisted men.. the brawn so to speak....

ok... thats it for now... pretty muddled up.. will sleep on it.. might come up with somehing more.

PS: Oh! and looking forward to the podcast! probably as much as I was looking forward to the show!

[Jeff]

Did anyone TIVO to cross word puzzle on Jack's seat. Looks like there was something on there....clue?

[adam!]

"Did anyone notice when they were running out of their houses at start (after the 'earthquake') people were shouting "Whats the source?""

sort of like... JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR?!?!?!??

[adam!]

"Did anyone notice when they were running out of their houses at start (after the 'earthquake') people were shouting "Whats the source?""

sort of like... JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR?!?!?!??

[I_Love_Sayid]

@Matt Laffert
@Riverfr0zen

The question mark is totally visable. It's even on Danielle's map, imo. Also, I think the line of site angle may actually work for this...

So I tried to work something out...tell me what you guys think. I could'nt do it all online so I did it in MSWord format. I reposted the map on the following link and you'll need to download the MSWord file from the top of the page. Let me know if it does'nt work.

http://www.geocities.com/colwildr/OthersvilleMap.html

[Nick]

I don't think it's very beneficial reading too much into the character's body language as some posts have. Ciahn wrote 'I also have this feeling that everyone's names arent their real name's, anytime they mention each other's it just feels like part of a charade.' Well, yes, it is a charade in a sense and these are not their real names, they are ACTORS after all. Are we really to assume each cast member has all of their subconscious quirks and body language down to an exact science to further their character development and the story? Please....

[I_Love_Sayid]

@ Vaibhav

"nerds gone wild" That's hilarious...and perfect. Just like us, lol.

So why you think they are US gov? I can't quite decide where I stand on that. There are certainly some examples to suggest it like the equiptment and the information.... but, as we're told by Penny, when you have alot of $$$ you can get all that stuff anyway. You don't necessarily need to be gov if your rich enough to work around it. Bad Twin and the whole Lost Experience thing seems to suggest corporate powers at work.

[I_Love_Sayid]

ummm...did I just suggest gov and corp are necessarily separate? achemm... scratch that.

[Bryan from the Dena]

Ok, so my first time posting, so be nice to me. In the first five minuets when we see Ethan and Goodwin get sent out it led me to believe a few things.

1) this was not the first time that people had crashed (or been brought) to the island. I think this because they had a set game plan for what to do in such a situation. If this was a total accident and they were not expecting people then they would have most likely sent people to help out.

2) I also am led to believe that the bringing down of flight 815 and Desmond not inputting the code is a coincidence. Benry knew there would be survivors in both sections, plus the game plan that they had seemed like it was inplace for when new guests did finally arrive. Another thing that leads me to believe that the flight was brought down was the file they had on Jack (and I will assume most of our other Lost-Aways). It is unlikely that they were able to obtain such a detailed file on Jack after figuring out who he was. Because that would mean that they easily can communicate and get items from the outside. However, they still are receiving supplies from a food drop like the one we saw in Season 2 (my evidence for this is the water bottle that Julliete brings to Jack, it is Dharma brand water and more than likely has the hydra symbol). Anyways, these are just a few of the thoughts that are trapped in my head. I won't even go into my ideas on what the island is, I'll save that for another time.

Hopefully that made sense, and sorry If I am just repeating something people have already said.

[I_Love_Sayid]

Hi,
I was just on The Fuselage to see if there was any discussion about the crash viewpoint changing the map perspective. I found a thread that was talking about distances from crash sites to Othersville. Someone said that they hear Benry tell Goodwin it should only take him a few hours to get there but it would take Ethan longer. Some say this proves Othersville to be closer to the Tailies and therefore not in the middle. What do you guys think? My thought is that the path to the Fusies is more mountainous making for a longer trip.

[Mark B]

Well I just watched the epi for the 2nd time and noticed a couple of things;

1. Sawyer does ask Carl a bunch of questions. My bad earlier saying that I was surprised he hadn't. Carl didn't answer though.
2. When Juliet is talking to Jack she says "you can trust me Jack, I'm not going to hurt you". I thought she was going to say "You can trust me Jack, I'm a good person", or is it that she did not say that for a reason (Note to self: stop over analysing !!)
3. When Jack tells Juliet his Dad was dead she seemed genuinely shocked. It must have been later she got all the info.
4. Kate was NOT physically hurt between breakfast and getting to the cage. Tom says "Scratched you up pretty bad didn't they" whilst taking off the handcuffs. Clearly he was refering too the cuffs in as 'they'.
5. Carl. Just before the escape atempt he said to Sawyer "What are the people like ? The people from your plane ?" How did he know Sawyer was on a plane ? Did he see it crash ? It seems like an odd thing to ask if he was on the plane and wanted to know if someone he knew survived. I now suspect he's a plant, a misbehaved Other, or he got to the island some other way. Perhaps he's actually from the other fraction of others ?
6. Those blasted Commercials: now I'm being really really sad because I timed it all... Lost lasted about 44 mins. The commercials lasted near enough 18 mins. However the last segment of Lost was 10 mins prior to that it had been 34 mins of Lost and 18 mins of commercials so 35% commercials --- we ended with a 70:30 split.

I'm off to calculate pi to 3142857 decimal places now.

Mark B.