OK, here it is, the poverty edition of LOSTCasts. Why the poverty edition you ask? Well, because there is zero production quality, the sound is screwed up and there is no John or Matt. But, what we lack in production quality we make up for in content. Brian L. made his comeback and thankfully so because I have nothing. So sit back and enjoy the poverty edition of LOSTCasts.
Download podcast 37 here
(note, there is a 50/50 chance I did this right, so the link above might not work)
Join us next week for a new podcast and we'll talk about the latest episode of Lost.
Stay LOST.
Just to let you know, it didn't work. It's not on itunes, nor can it be downloaded from that link. Hope you can fix it.
Denz
Posted by: Matthew Denham | October 15, 2006 at 12:08 PM
Works for me ....
Posted by: Mark B | October 15, 2006 at 12:11 PM
it Working for me m8
Posted by: WhiteSword | October 15, 2006 at 12:11 PM
I take that back, it does work on the site, but isn't on itunes yet, sorry I havn't donloaded it from the site before.
Denz
Posted by: Matthew Denham | October 15, 2006 at 12:12 PM
it does work from itunes
dont worry guys
Posted by: Rey | October 15, 2006 at 12:15 PM
Right click the link, then left click on "Save as". Save to your desktop, and then just double click to play it.
Posted by: Gavin | October 15, 2006 at 12:18 PM
Right click the link, then left click on "Save as". Save to your desktop, and then just double click to play it.
Posted by: Gavin | October 15, 2006 at 12:18 PM
I don't know if anyone has posted this yet, but whatever
there is a new audio Official Lost Podcast out in Itunes
go check it out.
Posted by: Rey | October 15, 2006 at 12:21 PM
Just listening to the first part of the podcast and your slating the episode. I loved it. Not the best ever but the best this series. The backstory was interesting and exciting, the on the island action was fanatastic, sawyer and kate kiss, great action with Henry Gale and the shooting from Sun. Whats wrong with you all! Are you guys totally about the mythology or something. This episode showed us the irony of last years episode "The whole truth", it showed how clever and shrewd Sawyer still is, and how Henry is slowly cracking Jack.
Your evidence for it being rubbish was also biased, there's loads of positive response for this episode on the numbers forum and the fuselage. Other podcasts were also positive about it. Cheer up, are you ecpecting a new village every episode or something?
Denz
Posted by: Matthew Denham | October 15, 2006 at 12:21 PM
have any of you fond the Official Lost Cast vid
in wmv format?
Posted by: Rey | October 15, 2006 at 12:33 PM
whoah! whats up with sound!!! Just kidding... grateful for you doing an episode...
Thanks guys!
Posted by: matt beale | October 15, 2006 at 12:47 PM
The new podcast sounded great on both levels: playback and content.
Another definition for Gallega: The original name of Christopher Columbus ship the Santa Maria. St. Mary and new worlds? More at wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Mar%C3%ADa_%28ship%29
Posted by: OpalMoore | October 15, 2006 at 02:09 PM
The official lost podcast isn't uploaded on the uk itunes yet, anyone know where else I can get it?
Denz
Posted by: Matthew Denham | October 15, 2006 at 02:19 PM
Well I thought that was a good podcast guys. Despite lack of John and Matt, it was a good length, good topics covered, still had the jokes and you mentioning my comments on Sayid, Jin & Sun finding something really made my night guys! Thanks for that! :)
Although how did I forget the possibility of it being the foot?! Lol.
And the sound was fine for me.
Cheers, Pete
Stay Lost.
Posted by: TTD | October 15, 2006 at 02:58 PM
1] I am also leaning towards the 'chain gang' work in this episode being an archeological dig, for two reasons: a) if there's freaky four toed stone feet lying around the island, there might be more freaky stuff worth digging for, and b) because an archeological dig also ties in with my Indiana Jones & Raiders of the Lost Ark observation of the first episode (in the beachside meal scene, replace Ben with Belloq and Kate with Marion in a new dress having a forced meal).
2] Sorry, still dont believe there are mysterious bare-foot Others. Goodwin, when asked by Ana why people and kids are being kidnapped, doesnt act surprised and says 'they're better off'. One group. But a subversive element, as shown by Alex and Karl. (maybe Juliet)
3] The whole Googling 'benjamin linus' thing does indeed lead to lots of interesting info via mackthompsonlaw.com. I had no idea there was a Hanso Air, and that flight 815 was 'utilizing a test version of the Artificial Intelligence Piloting System (AIPS) supplied by The hanso Foundation'.
Posted by: Cihan | October 15, 2006 at 03:04 PM
No Sweat Guys, It sounds great. You are the #1 Lost "Netcast" (Podcast is out, too Appley, its not theirs it's all of ours, so Netcast now). Always a treat to hear intelligent convo on Lost.
Posted by: Atem Ra | October 15, 2006 at 03:19 PM
Great podcast guys! Timely, topical, and thought-provoking.
I don't understand all the hate dished on this episode either. No, it wasn't the best episode of LOST ever, but the great episodes can only stand on the strong stable shoulders of episodes like this one. And although I agree that the main storyline wasn't very compelling, some of the moments in the Kate/Sawyer scenes and the Ben/Jack sequence were spine-tingling. I loved the return of Alex, Ben's revelation, and Sawyer's antics. But yeah, this was a transitional setup episode, plain and simple, and for what it was it was great.
I agree that the story of the Hatchlings will probably be much more compelling. I think the creators know this. Originally next week's episode was supposed to air before this one, but for some reason they swapped them. Perhaps there's some editing reason for this, but I think more likely we're going to have some major turning points next week and the show didn't want to pull out the big guns too early. As I said in my comment in the last thread, "Orientation" as the third episode of season two was really pivotal for the season arc, so I think we're dealing with a similar situation here.
Having said that, I do agree that these episodes might drive away people who are new to LOST and have been reared on more conventional TV that delivers non-stop action. I do think the producers might have planned a more exciting six-episode arc.
Anyway, keep the faith! Again, great show, and I especially liked the analysis of Linus.
Posted by: Seth | October 15, 2006 at 04:12 PM
As more and more episodes of Lost are aired the total number of episodes increases. As this total increases the chances of an episode rating being higher or lower than the statistical median decrease. As the number of episodes of Lost tend to infinity, the rating tends toward "average". Yes I am a maths guy.
Posted by: Wisdo | October 15, 2006 at 04:17 PM
Sounds good to me.
And fyi, the scene where Sun tells Jin about the baby...she's said in interviews that they wouldn't tell her if it was Jin's or not at the time, so maybe it's not a good idea to read too much into facial expressions.
Posted by: Chris | October 15, 2006 at 04:19 PM
This episode was slow-moving? In whose universe? Everyone's getting shocked, shot, or thrown out windows. I mean, Jin brutally beats the crap out of somebody! This is one of the most action-packed episodes of lost ever! It was also the first time we see a darker side of sun; she's typically such a victim and I feel she's really fleshing-out as a character in this episode. this wasn't my favorite episode ever, but I thought it was better than about 50% of Season 2. I can't even imagine what people want out of lost anymore: a forty-minute explosion-fest with new anomolies every few minutes? Sounds awful to me.
Posted by: russellihrig | October 15, 2006 at 04:23 PM
Damn I forgot to "say" as well, Watch the film "Lost Horizons" by Frank Capra. I presume you acolytes have come across it already. Although I havent heard it dicussed on the podcast - Basically remove the "horizons" bit from the title and you have Lost. Literally.
a brief synopsis from IMDB:
"A plane crash delivers a group of people to the secluded land of Shangri-La -- but is it the miraculous utopia it appears to be?"
These survivors are rescued by a mysterious group of people who possess excellent health and may be older than they first appear. What is the secret of Shangrila? etc etc. Top stuff from film genius Frank Capra. Shot in monochrome, no character is all black or all white and a strong moral sense pervades the film; faith, hope and love being the central themes. Other connections: Its set in the himilayas - so lots of snow and ice, but a tropical jungle exists in the middle, thanks to micro climates. Watch for Everett Horton crying in the woods!
Actually If you like Lost maybe dont watch it - SPOILERS!
Warning: I may have made some or all of this post up. It's late, who knows?
Posted by: Wisdo | October 15, 2006 at 04:32 PM
Perhaps we were too hard on the episode. I'm willing to accept that. The fact that we were still able to talk for an hour about it without going in circles or rambling too much shows the episode earned its keep.
Posted by: Blinder | October 15, 2006 at 04:40 PM
I don't mean to be rude but Kate most definitely WAS married. Back in Season 1 her and Sawyer are playing "I never" and he says he's never been married. Kate takes a small sip and says she was married only for a little while. Those pictures of her in a wedding dress are most probably flashbacks to this whirlwind marriage of hers.
Posted by: Janel Drewis | October 15, 2006 at 04:41 PM
Blinder, basically any episode lacking Locke is going to be sup par for a lot of people. Or any episode where Locke is in hapless vitim mode. We only got a brief glimpse of superhero Locke, of "if anyone can get us safely off this Island, It's John Locke" Locke. He is the shows central mystery I feel. However either the writers either dont feel the same or the y do and they just feel a little bit 'O Locke is all you need for a season. A dab'll do ya.
Posted by: Wisdo | October 15, 2006 at 04:47 PM
I don't know, this episode did a bit more for me than the premiere. It didn't have any earth-shattering reveals, except maybe at the end, but I think it setup a lot of interesting plotlines for the next couple of episodes. It also did so while adding some tension/action (like last year's finale).
Sawyer in the labor camp was a nice reminder of how great a character he can be. It's also nice to see that at least one of the three captured is still putting up a fight. He also doesn't buy into Juliet's "good cop" act unlike Jack. And he can read these "Others" better than anyone else.
And that final scene with Ben and Jack was exceptionally well done (but maybe that's because I'm a Sox fan : ). But really, Jack's reaction was perfect. Make fun of his crying escapades, but Matthew Fox is a pretty damn good actor.
Sayid's plan was rubbish, but then again, he wasn't a military strategist either. The writers had to get rid of the boat and they took a lazy way out - the weakest part of the episode.
Jin/Sun's flashback was really well done - at least for what there was left to tell. Again, I think the LOST audience is a pretty smart one, and a lot of the "reveals" in flashbacks are ones that have been speculated on for a while. But still, I think the way the writers have turned the Sun/Jin dymamic basically upside down since season 1 is interesting. They are no longer the "violent and repressive husband" and "loyal and sad wife."
Anyway, they didn't introduce the Colleen character only to have her die off right away. They'll keep her alive just long enough for Jack to make a decision on helping her.
A few other setups:
Sawyer testing out the guards = uprising to follow
Ben monitoring the cages = squashing their plans
Ben offering Jack a chance to go home = the eventual climax of the first 6 episodes.
All that said, I'm glad the next episode is soley focuses on Locke, Desmond and Eko.
Posted by: Raz Minder | October 15, 2006 at 05:22 PM
Yeah the "sox" thing was an enigma to me and my friends. We did a little snooping and found out that it is rare indeed for this sports team to win in its sport. A tad to colloqiual for me, seing as half the Losties are not americans, but I suppose since Ben and Jack are americans the demonstration is basically an airtight proof of their connection. I assume "baseball" is some variant of "cricket" right? Is it really such a big deal in America? How oddly obscure.
Posted by: Wisdo | October 15, 2006 at 06:07 PM
For being a "povertycast", I think it was still very well-done! I liked it a lot. :)
Could the Galaga even be a group of people? "It's ten minutes from where the Galaga can retrieve it -" The Galaga could be a team of Others (that have a specific mission, etc) or something like that.
Posted by: mooze | October 15, 2006 at 06:24 PM
"Always a treat to hear intelligent convo on Lost"
just listening to it right now, and yes, it's always a treat to hear LOSTcasts' intelligent LOST convos, whether povertycast or skypecast or basic netcast. i've tried listening to other LOST netcasts, and (not to name names) found them to be slightly... snobbish... and unfriendly, and too cliquey-cool. i love the ramshackle mono analog quality of LOSTcasts geekery, like bootleg weezer mp3s. just wanted to tell you people that. keep it up!
Posted by: adam! | October 15, 2006 at 07:25 PM
Dudes, hansoadoption is totally a fansite.
They were stalking us over at the numbers forums all throuhout the ARG with thier BS.
The site used to be tied into the ARG, now they've switched to the show.
Some fans are crazy, I bet they paid for this.
Posted by: jack+sayid=durtyislandluv | October 15, 2006 at 08:22 PM
here's a reverse IP of the hansoadoptions site.
Its hosted on the same server as "qdultnews.com".
I don't think ABC would do that.
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5316/hansoadoptionscamor5.jpg
Posted by: jack+sayid=durtyislandluv | October 15, 2006 at 08:52 PM
Hey guys get podcats, i grab it everyweek at listen on my way to work. Anyway thought you guys would find this funny.
Lost-Fiction - http://bluemafia.com/potd1.php?id=11
Posted by: Pete | October 15, 2006 at 10:01 PM
Wisdo says:
I assume "baseball" is some variant of "cricket" right? Is it really such a big deal in America? How oddly obscure.
Yes is it. Baseball is our national pastime. And even more so when your home team is in the World Series. GO TIGERS!!!
Posted by: Renee | October 15, 2006 at 10:08 PM
" I assume "baseball" is some variant of "cricket" right?"
now wait just one minute...
There's no way this is for real right. I mean, Baseball is a very popular sport in other parts of the world besides america (such as Japan). I just thought it would be impossible to not know anything about it. I mean I've never seen a single cricket game in my life, but I still know what it is. If this is for real, I'm very curious to know where you live.
Posted by: russellihrig | October 16, 2006 at 12:18 AM
Something tells me Wisdo was being sarcastic about the baseball thing. ;)
Havent listened to the podcast yet. Will grab it when I get home. I`m sure I won`t be disappointed. :)
Just a random thought about the Jin/Sun baby thing. If the baby wasn`t Jin´s, wouldnt Sun have been showing signs of pregnancy earlier? It`d be a bit weird for her only to get suspicious after 2 months?
Posted by: Midnight | October 16, 2006 at 07:20 AM
Great podcast - John can have no complaints about how you guys looked after the shop! But where was Matt Jones? Perhaps down at Taco Bueno, enjoying the fine cuisine :)
Re Sun turning out to be not so nice, I just wanted to remind people of her fairly significant (even back then) comments from Season 1. I think that these were around the time that Claire is returned from being kidnapped, and is having nightmares and amnesia.
Sun: "Do you think all this, all we've been through, do you think we were being punished?"
Shannon: "Punished for what?"
Sun: "Things we did before, secrets we kept, the lies we told.."
Shannon: "Who do you think is punishing us?"
Sun: "Fate"
I also thought your analysis of whether a person can be a killer or not was very insightful. Again in a throwback to Season 1, recall the Australian guy who sold the revolver to Sawyer at the docks in Sydney. He told Sawyer that when he points the gun at someone, he will find out if he has what it takes to pull the trigger, and if he doesn't have what it takes, there are no refunds. I believe this will come back to haunt Sawyer. He has been itching to kill someone since he came back from the failed raft voyage. But when he gets his chance, will he really be able to pull the trigger?
So, if only for some providing some continuity back to the foundation themes of Season 1, and so to give the show a little less of the 'making it up as they go along' feeling that we must all be getting from time to time, this episode is worthy of recognition.
Posted by: Cameron | October 16, 2006 at 08:43 AM
Ya.. I agree.. great podcast, this one... I didn't notice any technical issues or anything either...
btw, can some post a link to the second Official podcast? I just cannot find it on the ABC website... I believe its got an interview with Elizabeth Mitchell... right?
Posted by: Vaibhav | October 16, 2006 at 08:48 AM
Woa... I read there was an earthquake in Hawaii...
wonder if people came out searching the skies...
further jokes subject to damage reports.
Posted by: Vaibhav | October 16, 2006 at 08:57 AM
No Team had ever come back from a 0-3 hole like the 2004 Boston Red Sox did in the ALCS when they beat the Yankees.
The Sox went on to sweep the Cardinals in 4 - to win the World Series.
Yes...it's a big deal....the win lifted the "Curse of the Bambino".....Boston's bad luck began when they traded Babe Ruth to the Yankees.
Posted by: Oaktown_Funk | October 16, 2006 at 09:57 AM
Just started listening to the podcast. Thanks for the mention.
Perhaps I was a little harsh on the episode too. The reason I didn't like it is that it added very little to the backstory of Sun/Jin other than compound what we already knew. Jin has a conscience and Sun is not the perfect little wife, not sure where else the writers can go with them. The on-island stuff was OK but it moved too slowly. The whole Sayid ambushing the Others scenario was a sham of an military operation but then perhaps we are expecting too much of him. The Sawyer-Kate interaction was good as was the last 5 mins with Jack and Ben. The theme of this episode seemed to have been violence.
TPTB have set-up many many questions and so far we have very few answers. These six episodes should have featured the main characters and the Others. Hopefully this weeks episode will be a good one as we are back to the beach.
BTW Cricket is played professionally in way more countries than baseball; England, Australia, India, Pakistan, most of the Caribean, Sri Lanka, Kenya, Zimbabwe, South Africa, New Zealand and so on. Basically any of the English colonies other than the US.
BTW2: The official podcast is on itunes.
Posted by: Mark B | October 16, 2006 at 10:37 AM
Don't know if this has been talked about.
Going off the Hanso-Adoption site, if it is real.
What if the losties (people of appropriate age; Kate, Jack, Sawyer, Hurly, and so on) were born on the Island, created or whatever, on the Island, and then were adopted out because they were “bad”; or did not fit into the purpose of Hanso. What if they receive some kind of power because of the island or because of the experiments? Explains all the strange stuff that they experience on the island; And what if the Island is calling back the people who were born on it, to stop the “good guys” from what every they are doing. Maybe, Dharma watched all the kids after they left the Island; because they wanted to keep track of them and their power. (explains why they have all the information on Jack, Sun and so on) OR what if they adoption deal was apart of changing the numbers; Like putting these “different” people into the genetic pool of the world would do something; or change something. I’m reminded of what Lock’s mother said about being “special”.
Just some random thoughts.
Posted by: Sigillum Dei Hemeth | October 16, 2006 at 10:43 AM
Enough about the episode--no one's mentioning the return of Brian L.?!?? Really good to have the sardonic wit back. I enjoyed the goofy digressions that Robert and Brian were indulging in this podcast...great to hear Robert a little more than his usual 'just chiming in', and great to have Brian's enthusiasm back, along with the sarcasm, singing, and knack for digging through the forums and pieceing together interesting theory bits.
Missed John's structure, research and production though, and Matt's encyclopedic brain. Everybody brings something good to the table, which makes me look forward to each new podcast almost as much as each episode of Lost. You guys form like Voltron. Keep up the good work...and bring back Brian permanently!
Posted by: bonneville | October 16, 2006 at 10:51 AM
OK... here's the importance of Ben telling Jack about the Red Sox, and showing it to him.
I believe that Jack's dad used to have a saying, something like, "Yeah... and the Red Sox will win the World Series." I think back in a season 1 flashback jack's dad said that to Sawyer when they were talking in the bar. Then later on Jack said that to Sawyer as well, on the island. Sawyer kind of shot Jack a wierd look, and Jack said, "Just something my Dad used to say." I think it was then that Sawyer realized he had met Jack's dad at a bar in Sydney.
So... that seems to link The Others to Jack's dad!
The daddy issue questions continue!!
Posted by: Popmerchant | October 16, 2006 at 01:14 PM
Jin didn't know about Sun and the bald dude.
Posted by: mike | October 16, 2006 at 02:55 PM
Popmerchant, I agree that Ben using the Red Sox to get into Jack's mind was not mere coincidence, but the question is whether Jack's dad is involved in this whole affair or if Ben's file on Jack has: "Likes the Red Sox", under the 'Trivia' section.
Posted by: Cihan | October 16, 2006 at 03:02 PM
Some of my friends believe that jack's dad is not really dead. Remeber, the casket was empty when Jack found it on the island. Perhaps he is way more ivolved in this than anyone realizes? And to me... this whole Red Sox thing connects Jack's dad to "the others."
Was he working for them, or against them? I dunno, but there is a defnite connection, as far as I'm concerned.
Plus, it just adds to the whole daddy issue theory.
Posted by: Popmerchant | October 16, 2006 at 03:40 PM
The link to the official LOST audio podcasts is now:
http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/podcast
For those who had it bookmarked etc, they changed it recently - it USED to be at:
http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/podcasts.html
but that link now takes you back to the index page where you only see the video podcast.
Why they had to go and change it I don't know. I guess they have a monkey somewhere that updates their website, and it got a little bored ...
Posted by: Cameron | October 16, 2006 at 03:48 PM
Great Podcasts, even if it's an abbreviated cast. I love it when the whole crew is there, but excellent work.
On the chain gang: I think there's prolly plenty of lame work to be done, without making them do it for nothing.
On Sawyer's surveillance saviness: I think everyone knows that surveillance is always part of incarceration. I very much want to think Sawyer is playing a long con some how.
Can't wait for next week... 2 days more.
Posted by: Symbha | October 16, 2006 at 03:58 PM
Hey! I listened to the podcast at work today. I was actually a little scared. I was looking forward to it all week and was bummed to hear it was a "poverty" version.
So I was extremely happy when I listened and it was almost like normal! Thanks guys and great job!!
A point that I think was overlooked in this episode is that Colleen calls Sun by her full name. These Others have done their homework. They didn't have the flight manifest (or did they), but they knew Sun on sight and her full name.
I think that proves the information the Others have on Jack was not gained through drugging him. I don't suppose he knows the other Losties last names.
Posted by: Joni | October 16, 2006 at 04:50 PM
I don't think the Red Sox quote is a big deal and I don't think it should be a link to the fact Jacks Dad was involved in Dharma/Hanso. I think that Ben mentioned it cause it was an important event. Like if the plane had crashed pre-superbowl then they would have had a tape with the team that won the superbowl. I don't recall when we first heard that Jacks Dad say the Red Sox line but either the writers were thinking way ahead or it was just dumb luck (for the writers) that the Red Sox won the World Series unless of course Dharma fixed it ......
Posted by: Mark B | October 16, 2006 at 05:30 PM
bonneville,
I completely agree that the guest hosting by Brian was wonderful! I've come to enjoy the tone of the podcast lately, but his presence and sardonic wit was a true joy.
Mark B,
"Basically any of the English colonies other than the US" play cricket. Not to get off on a tangent (but hey, the touching, character-driven episode didn't have maps, monsters, or magnets), but there was this lil thing I happen to be reading about in the book "1776" which may explain why your "English colonies" in America don't play much cricket anymore! :-P
Lastly, to Robert and Brian,
A pleasure, sirs, to be mentioned in connection to the woeful rating that Lost got last week. Obviously, its not necessarily a reflection of THIS episode; the scary thing is that its a reflection of the previous episode (the season premiere), which I think everyone agrees was an enjoyable start to things.
Any thoughts about what the site/podcast will do during the break (which is now ONE MONTH AWAY!)? It's been nice having things so chatty around here again. Perhaps if not the "book club," then more of the pop culture flavor that was thrown around in the spring?
Posted by: Matt Lafferty | October 16, 2006 at 06:07 PM
Matt Lafferty,
To continue your off topic conversation whilst waiting for a new episode ... 48 and a bit hours and counting.
1776 -- was that the last time (prior to 2004) that the Red Sox won the World Series then ? 8-P
In any case why is it called the "World" Series when only one country takes part ? Surely the One Nation Series would be a better name ? 8-)
What is this "Curse of the Bambino" ? Does little Aaron Turniphead of Craphole Island have that much power over a baseball game ? IS this why the Red Sox won the World Series ?
I too would like to know what plans are in place for the off-season ? Perhaps a week or two break followed by a season so far review ? And a what next ?
Mark B
Posted by: Mark B | October 16, 2006 at 07:29 PM
"Perhaps if not the "book club," then more of the pop culture flavor that was thrown around in the spring?"
i second this, and also suggest maybe one of the LOSTcasters subscribing to Verizon to discuss the 13-part mobisode they seem to be planning on doing to fill the gap?
Posted by: adam! | October 16, 2006 at 08:05 PM
Hey, about the whole basseball discussion, i just wanted to say I'm not from the states (i'm actually from south america soi'm a soccer fan), and I've never watced a full basseball game in my life, but i still know how popular it is there and also know about the world series and what a big deal it is for a team to win it. What i didn't know until lost season one, was that the red sox never won it, and now i learned they did later within the show timeline, which i found really interesting. Of course this whole red sox thing as an element on the show might not make all the sense to me and other outsiders as it makes it for people who are in to basseball, but i can still get the picture...
Posted by: Art_Vandelei | October 16, 2006 at 08:13 PM
The Others are building a runway for an airstrip. This is the only reason they would be tamping the earth down. Also note the orientation of the site is very linear.
Posted by: ChiefKujo | October 16, 2006 at 11:32 PM
i loved your podcast this week. Has anyone watched the Canadian trailer for this week's show? I don't want to give anything away, but it does look cool. I would think that all countries have the same preview, but I guess I would be wrong. If interested, check it out here:
http://www.lostlinks.net/videos/promo2.htm
Posted by: AVDJ | October 16, 2006 at 11:32 PM
The whole baseball "when the Red Sox win the World Series" has just been a running gag since season one. The Gag culminated in episode 2 of season 3. I would not put any more stock in the hows or why, it was just a clever way to bring the joke home.
I still think everyone is being a little harsh on Sayid. All it has ever shown in his flashbacks was that he was an "information" officer. It never hinted that he was special forces or that he ever saw real battle. He tortured err interrogated prisoners.
All the information about the others that he "knew" was what he learned in part from Anal and mostly from Micheal. While he knew that Micheal was compromised, surely he could see that Micheal was at least telling the truth (as far as Miceal knew) about how lacking the others were. To strengthen the argument he even found there abandoned huts. There is nothing to suggest that Kate ever told him about the fake beards and costumes as everyone never tells anyone else what they discover.
So I still stand by what his plan was. We can't look at it from what we now know of the others. So there is no way that he could know, that even before he built the fire, the others already knew he was there and had already made plans to steal the boat. His plan, while brazen to the point of ignorant, was still a pretty sound plan.
1) The others would not have known there was a boat so would not have known that he had gotten behind their line.
2)The others seeing smoke coming from the beach would have sent a group to investigate.
3)While investigating the fire on the beach they would have been ambushed and shot down. (remember they are lightly armed as far as Syid knows but even if they all had guns the element of suprise was still in Sayid's favor and sometimes thats all you need)
Where the plan fell through was that the others apparantly did not come through the woods to the beach, or even look at the fire, they boarded the boat, probably from the water.
As for last seasons Rambo style attack of the village, I attribute that to pacing for the show, what we did not see was how long he crept around or scouted and saw noone there before he started checking huts.
The only real questions thus far are...
What happened on the beach between Fenry and Kate, and why was her wrists all scratched up from the cuffs? Could it be she attacked Fenry with her cuffs on and he told her that if she ever tries something like that again he will cut Jacks head off?? This would explain why she has been so docile.
And while the first time I watched episode 2 I was under the impression that Sun did not sleep with Korean Kojack, She told him "I can't" and he did still have his pants on when he reached for the pearl necklace. Upon further viewing I caught that he said "I don't want to share you anymore" when she was refusing to take the necklace because of her husband. That pretty much shot that down, so I guess it is gonna be a soap opera till the baby is born.
As far as what they want Jack Kate and Sawyer for... well I have come to the conclusion I don't really care. At best it is probably going to be disappointing at worst we won't "Really" find out why for another 3 seasons. There have been 50 episodes after the season 1 Pilot and I still don't "Know" what knocked the trees down in the forest, what do I care what some island refugees have in store for 3 people from a downed plane.. I don't even know Why the plane was downed.. I might know what led to it but after a full season. I still don't "Know" what it is that was in the swan hatch. I know that Fenry did in fact entere the numbers, but then he lied which makes even less sense from what we know now. It is lose/lose situation to lie to Locke and say it doesn't do anything. Because there is only one logical outcome to the lie. The button not getting pushed. So was the "event" not known to Fenry or was the "event" not as bad as world ending and he didn't care if it did go off. Also How does "God" not see the island but a Red Sox game can.. Also why can Locke Walk. Also.................
You see, this is becoming another X Files. More and more questions and little to no answers and what answers you do get are generaly meaningless or out and out wrong. Where are the paraphenominal super being "others" we were led to believe were running the island, surely it's not these suburbanite yuppie freudian wannabes???
So why do I think these first couple of episodes have been diappointing?
Over the summer we were told, no, we were guarenteed that if we did not participate in the Lost Experiance we would not really miss out on anything important as far as the show goes. WTH!?!?!? They only found out what the NUMBERS and DHARMA were for. That is a pretty substantial Detail to the show compared to how forthcoming they are with what they actually show on the series. So don't give me the "Your expectations are to high" when I say that the writers could have done a little more with the season premier. They should have opened with an "Other" flashback and if not answering anything else at least have shored up the whole Valenzeti and Dharma angle while they were manhandling the captives. That would have made a much better episode than the whole turnabout on Jack. In season 1 we thought he was doing the right thing by reporting that his father had been drinking while under surgery, now we know that its Jack's fault that his father was drinking. We also now know that Jack is a full on psycho creep that attacks his father at an AA meeting, not because he misses his wife but becuase he wants to know who is boning her. Yeah thanks guys, I don't need a soap opera, give us good character development and gives a good story that has some kind of ending in site. Because as you lose viewership you lose advertising dollars. As you lose budget you lose the abilty to tell a good story and you lose production value. As you lose that you lose more viewers. Who gets screwed in the end? People like me because we have followed the show and we are intellectually involved and we do want to know the best story and where it is all going. Don't make the same mistakes X Files did......
PS.
and to the person questioning who is a killer. Sawyer killed an "other" at the end of last season, Kate tried hard to kill one, Jack definatly would have killed one had they showed themselves, Charlie has killed one as has Eko... I believe Sayid would have no qualms to killing one either.
Posted by: Drynn_03 | October 17, 2006 at 01:00 AM
Excellent job on the B-team podcast. Still better than any other - great reasoning and it's not at all self-promoting.
I'm worried about the show losing viewers. Some of my non-fanatical friends bowed out over the course of last season. Many of the remaining seem to be already disenchanted with this season. I've enjoyed the first two episodes. But ratings are going to drop significantly. Wish they would have done the epidsoes as 7+8+8 instead of 6+17.
1. That Jin's English teacher was her affair was pretty obvious. We get so many crazy ass theories. Anything can happen in Lost, but most of the foreshadowed plot points develop as expected.
2. Kate's facial expressions so far have clearly indicated resigned acceptance. Between the meal on the beach with Ben and her arrival at the cages with bruises, she underwent and/or agreed to something. Her behavior toward Sawyer hints strongly that there's something bad that she cannot tell him. The whole Rosseau's (sp?) daughter "that's my dress" line could be more than literal, meaning that Kate is now being groomed for some sort of important role with The Others - fertilitly?
3. That may be where Jack comes in. Sure, his path off the island may be tied to his leadership of the Losties. But he's supposed to be a great surgeon. Put my money on his ticket stateside resting on some sort of surgical prodecure - and no, although he may have to operate on the shot Other, that won't be the reason. It will be tied to Kate and pregnancy.
4. "Rubbish at special ops." That line makes me laugh.
5. I wish I could read a smart, thorough piece on what we really know after two seasons and the Lost Experience. Ben seems to pre-date Dharma on the island. I'd enjoy if the whole different factions of Others idea meant that there was another group before the group moved to the island. However, I'm afraid that would be another reason for the non-fanatical viewers to say, "I've had enough." Suspect it will mean disagreements among leadership in The Others. But I see viewers leaving even if this is true.
Don't mean to be so negative about Lost losing its audience. But the impatience coupled with the increase in serialized shows...
Posted by: Mike | October 17, 2006 at 01:24 AM
I am having a problem letting go of the whole "Underworld" aspect of the show.....and I am probably trying too hard to find correlations, but I did find some interesting info:
From Greek/Roman mythology -
Cerberus/Cerebus: multi-headed dog, guardian of the Underworld
Hydra: had an entrance to the Underworld beneath its lair
Caduceus: Hermes also guided souls from the world of the living to Hades (Underworld), the realm of the dead. He carried with him a caduceus or herald's staff.
Swan: the connection was mentioned in an earlier lostcast podcast but I can't remember it
Arrow: as a symbol of Apollo who is sometimes referred to as *Soranus Pater*, essentially "a Lord of the Underworld"
There's actually quite a few other references, but they require a lot of stretching to make connections (e.g. the arrow could also represent Centaurs who use them to hunt and are represented heavily in mythology in the Underworld)
Egyptian Symbols -
at the end of the countdown mean Underworld
Chinese Mythology -
Pearl: TI-TSANG WANG is the God of mercy. Wandering in the caverns of Hell, a lost soul might encounter a smiling monk whose path is illuminated by a SHINING PEARL and whose staff is decorated with metal rings that chime like bells. This is Ti-Tsang Wang, who will do all he can to help the soul escape hell and even to put an end to his eternal round of death and rebirth. Long ago, Ti-Tsang Wang renounced Nirvana so that he could search the dark regions of Hell for souls to save from the kings of the ten hells. Once a priest of Brahma, he converted to Buddhism and himself became a Buddha with special authority over the souls of the dead
Head.....hurting......
What does all of this mean? Hell if I know, but it does seem like they are taking a bit of every culture when referring to the hatches to make "underworld" connections. But I'm starting to think that there's more to the hatches than we have seen. I do believe that they are all connected (and, as mentioned by others, could have aided Goodwin get to the crash site so quickly) and that they have a greater purpose than we have seen.
Posted by: OldManGout | October 17, 2006 at 01:39 AM
One more thing,
On other "Others"
In the Video podcast, Factions are mentioned with the word "Caste". That makes sense on how people like Alex and Karl might be rebelling against the 1984'esque way Fenry is Big Brother'ing his leadership and might explain whats going on emotionally with Juliette. I think it is a weak point to think that there is a wild group of Others just because Fenry says he wants lists in 3 days. Lets review, Night #1 kids were taken. Apparently it only took Goodwin an hour to get to the Tailees so it is not outside the realm of possibility to think it's a safe bet that he would report to someone that there are kids. Prior to the first abduction and them finding a list on the second night noone was watching if anyone left. By the second night he could have given them a list. He did not have as many people to look over as Ethan did. All this shows was that Goodwin was effecient.
I think the whole barefoot others was a ploy, I think they knew Micheal was out looking for his son, and I think they knew that Jin and Eko was following them. I think the walkby was a way to re-enforce that there was nothing to show them being advanced. As for the kid following them with the bear, if it was the same boy, he could have easily been drugged the same way Claire was.
Posted by: Drynn_03 | October 17, 2006 at 02:30 AM
great podcast guys! thanks!!!
i was def. too hard on the episode; can we speculate about the other group of others. who are they? are they with the others or apart?
stay lostie.
Posted by: ursinha | October 17, 2006 at 02:30 AM
Old man, good stuff, hope your heads o.k.
I've been curious about the underworld thing because it seems like the smoke monster(s) come from below.
Posted by: Joop | October 17, 2006 at 02:49 AM
"are they with the others or apart?"
i think they're working within the main group, just because i get this feeling that (being generally technocrats and/or moral highrollers), i don't think the status quo (ie, ben, tom, danny, et al) would tolerate a satellite rebel others camp existing in the island. it makes more sense that the rebels (if they are rebels) would be working as subordinates within the system, maybe plotting a coup d'etat of sorts, something we'd probably see by the end of the third season, and by "end" i mean season 3 episode 23-24.
also, re: mobisodes and maybe potential SPOILER: it's been (somewhat) revealed in one of the latest comicons that some of the people featured in the mobisodes are Hugo, Sawyer and Kate. seeing as to how the number of projected mobisodes (13) and the number of weeks LOST will be off-air (13) coincide, it sounds like they'll be filling in the 13-week gap with the mobisodes, and that (some of our) speculations about Jack staying in with the Others is (somewhat) accurate.
Posted by: adam! | October 17, 2006 at 05:56 AM
Great podcast as always, guys. I think you did well on your own.
As a non-American, I just want to point out that many of us out in the rest of the world must have found it amusing that the Sox-thing was what Jack didn't buy. As for me, I would have been more sceptical to the fact the story about you guys actually reelecting Bush. Now, THAT'S unbelievable!! :-)
Keep up the good work with the podcast, guys. You're doing a great job.
Posted by: Nimrod | October 17, 2006 at 08:48 AM
Hey Drynn_03 - I just wanted to let you know that the first abduction of the tailies was on the first night and they only took 3 men (and failed at taking Eko). The Second abduction was on the 7th night and that's when they took the kids.
Now I've been thinking about this for a bit and was wondering why, if Ben wanted the list after 3 days, did it take until the 7th to abduct the rest and here's my theory:
Goodwin was able to get the list to them by the third day (and that does make sense because it would take a few days to get everyone's names). With their ability to have contact with the outside world, it then took them another 3 days to get all the information on those people on the list in order to determine who to take and who was not worthy (i.e. the dude killed by Goodwin) and 1 final day to coordinate their attack. I mean, it DID take them about a day or so to compile the info on Jack (assuming they hadn't already had the file - and I only make that assumption because Juliette didn't know Jack's name immediately).
Now, other questions arise like: why was it so easy for Ethan and Goodwin to kill (or attempt to kill) Losties/Tailies, especially considering that they think of themselves as "good guys"? How in the world was Goodwin able to kill that dude AND hide his body so quickly and how was Ethan able to subdue 2 people (Charlie and Claire), who I assume were struggling (or, if they were both knocked out, CARRY 2 people), and hang one so quickly AND also how was Ethan able to crush every bone in Steve/Scott's body (have you ever tried to crush a bone BY HAND)?
The first question is answered simply enough: they killed easily because the people they killed (tried to kill) were not deemed worthy to be abducted and therefore were expendable. Goodwin killed that one guy because he simply was not needed or wanted. He tried to kill Ana because she was not, really, a good person. Ethan tried to kill Charlie because he, too, was not useful (heroin addiction) and Claire was on the chopping block because she was annoying (just kidding, but she's the only one's expendability I can't figure out).
My second question's answer goes back to my other posts last week: the Others are genetically engineered/enhanced!!! I mean, jeez, I am a pretty strong guy and I am a Marine and I would have a hell of a time doing the stuff Ethan and Goodwin have done (and I've been trained to do it!!).
Posted by: OldManGout | October 17, 2006 at 09:58 AM
adam! - on one of the official Lost podcasts, Lindelof and Cuse said that the mobisodes would be broadcast during the 13 week hiatus for Verizon users (then available a week later on the web for non-Verizon subscribers). I don't think though that they will be in current continuity (I'm pretty sure that if Hurley found a videocamera - that's the concept - that the battery would be pretty dead after 69 days) - who knows though.....I suppose we'll find out in 4 more weeks.
Posted by: OldManGout | October 17, 2006 at 10:03 AM
Drynn_03 - sorry to keep bagging on you, but I reread your post and wanted to say one thing - Sayid's plan was a good one....had he not left the boat in clear view of the shore. Yes, the fire would have been a tempting target for the Others, but damn, if I saw a boat docked and just floating around, the boat would be my first target - it's much more tempting and valuable. Sayid would have had to know that the Others would recon the area from afar before moving in so he should have had Sun sail the boat off shore and out of site so that the Others only had one target to investigate when they thought the coast was clear.
Posted by: OldManGout | October 17, 2006 at 10:17 AM
Just got back from Miami and listened to the podcast/netcast. Great job by Brian and Robert. I disagree with their take on the episode. I enjoyed the hell out of it. A little action, a little romance and a lot of exposition.
I like the Sun and Jin flashbacks. I find their story compelling. I think what we learned about Sun is important. Not only is she a liar, she is a remorseless liar. Possibly even a killer. Put me in the she pushed Mr. Clean camp. She knew that her father is all knowing. If he found out Jin didn’t kill Mt. Clean then Jin is as good as dead. She sacrificed Mr. Clean the same way she sacrificed the maid. Too cover her own ass. I don’t think Colleen/Trixie’s miscalculation of Sun was an accident. It showed us that Sun can kill and that the Others are not all knowing. They used the lists to get the surface information of the Losties, but they can’t read minds. They don’t know everything.
BTW. As a Deadwood fan I kept waiting for Trixie to bust out with a cocksuker or two. First Swerengen and now Ben. She sure can pick her men cant she. I’m also pretty sure she’s the one who threw the firebomb at the raft in season 1.
As for Sayid’s ambush lets face it, the Iraqi army was not exactly known for it’s tactical genius.
I like the Archeological dig theory for Kate and Sawyer’s chain gang work, but it looked too unorganized. It seemed like more of the mind-numbing busy work DHARMA is found of to me. I loved the Cool Hand Luke references by Sawyer though. It’s one of my favorite movies of all time. Sawyer testing the guards was great. I think what he said about the younger ones not having any real fighting experience is key. You can train all you want, but you really have no idea how you’ll be in a fight until you get punched in the face. I think the kiss was just his bonus for the beatdown he knew he was going to take. The fight also punches a hole in the superhuman Others theory. They aren’t super strong, just well trained.
Kate, Kate, Kate.... I have no idea what her story is. She seems to know more than she is letting on, but maybe she is just reeling from being dressed like a girl for once. I don’t know what to make of Alex either. Obviously there is dissention in the ranks.
Jack is being turned, but I think he’ll be the one to turn the tables. I think that the Others are lacking in practical human experience. Like the guy Sawyer fought, they know the right moves, but haven’t applied them in a real scenario. Being very logical they will underestimate Jack’s stubbornness to their own detriment.
Now for baseball - we call it the World Series because at the time we were the only people in the world who played it so whoever won it was technically the best in the world. Self centered? Maybe, but that’s how we roll. Boston winning it is the equivalent of Team USA winning a World’s Cup. As for Cricket all I know is that it is baseball’s even duller ancestor and it involves something called a Googley.
Posted by: Matt Jones | October 17, 2006 at 10:45 AM
What up guys! Robert, you're too hard on yourself, the last podcast was just fine. Brian, welcome back, hope to hear you on the podcast as a regular again.
OK guys, go listen to the latest offical podcast, posted today. Damon and Cartlon seemed to let a few good nuggets out. To me, the most interesting thing they had to say was related to time. They were talking about the last scene in 3.2 where Benry tells Jack that they've been on the island for 69 days. According to Damon, there is probably good reason NOT to believe Benry. This is the second time I've heard the exec producers make a reference to time (and the fact that time is not passing normally). They made a similar comment at Comic Con. I personally think that time is passing normally in the real world, but at some sort of alternate rate on the island.
Damon and Carlton also basically confirmed that Benry pre-dated the Dharma Initiative, and that we should all "re-think all of our theories". Also, they confirmed that Sun and Jae were having an affair (I've heard a few people say that the bed scene was not clear) and that even Sun herself doesn't know for sure who the baby's father is, but that we (and Sun) would be finding out later this year. Also, commented on Sun's shooting of Colleen and how Danny Pickett (confirmed by Damon and Carlton) would not be too happy about it, considering the exchange we saw them have.
Anyway, I think the point of all this is, despite all that we think we know and figured out, things are still NOT WHAT THEY SEEM. We are being fed a story and given a VERY narrow scope of context. I'm pretty much at the point of giving up figuring this thing out and just enjoying the ride.
I can't believe everyone complaining already about the show (not here necessarily, just across the LOST universe in general). NOTHING has changed from the pilot. We get more questions than answers, we don't always get the story-line we want at the time that we want it, there are a bunch of commercials (hello TIVO!), and yes, it's very deep and somewhat difficult to keep straight. Like I said, seems like the same show that we've always loved. I'm not understanding the hate. Relative to 99.9% of the rest of the garbage we're fed on TV, LOST is still, far and away the best drama on TV, and in my mind, the best show regardless of genre.
Looking forward to tomorrow night's episode, but don't expect to find out why Locke was in a wheelchair! :)
Posted by: Chris from Jackson, MS | October 17, 2006 at 10:46 AM
You are correct, well almost anyway..
Day 1) 3 men are taken and as was an attempt to take Eko, this was explained by Goodwin as taking the the strongest, maybe so Goodwin could have time to make his list.
Day 12) The list is made and 9 people are taken of which the kids were 2.
Day 23) Goodwin kills Nathan, he explains that had Anna started cutting off Nathans fingers to interrogate him, she may have started to believe he was not an other, so Goodwin killed him out of self preservation.
Day 27) find the Arrow Hatch and a radio. Anna follows Goodwin to the mountains where she confronts him and he explains why they took the people. We learn that the first 3 was that they were stronger (we have to surmize that this was the reason because he did not suspect that Anna knew he was an other when he suggested this) and that the 9 were taken because they were good.
41) radio contact with the fuselage losties, 45) capture Jin Sawyer and Micheal. 47) start hiking to the other side of the island to join the group from the fuselage, 48) kill Shannon
While I was completly wrong on who was taken when, after reviewing "The Other 48 Days" the point I was making still holds. Otherville was less than an hour away (Anna notes that Goodwin was there within 10 min of the crash, I put this down to production error but can probably explain it away as everyone was kinda in shock due to the crash and 10 min estimate could have been off)and the 9 was clearly taken on day 12 because of the list. There is only one group of others shown to us thus far. The barefoot ones we see in the forest when Jin and Eko are hiding has the kids which we know was taken by Fenry's group.
Posted by: Drynn_03 | October 17, 2006 at 11:23 AM
"As for Sayid’s ambush lets face it, the Iraqi army was not exactly known for it’s tactical genius."
nah. i agree more with what some of the posters here have said, that sayid's poor tactical performance was due to bad intel more than anything else.
"I'm pretty sure that if Hurley found a videocamera - that's the concept - that the battery would be pretty dead after 69 days"
i was under the impression that it was a PHONECAMERA, but then again, i don't think the world (outside of japan) had functional phonecams circa 2004, so maybe it IS a videocamera (probably a miniDV?).
re: 69 day battlife; there's always suspension of disbelief, i guess, seeing as to how it's LOST...
Posted by: adam! | October 17, 2006 at 12:34 PM
Still have to agree with Sayids plan. think about it from his viewpoint. After our group did not show up to the beach at the first fire. He must have realized that his first plan (The plan that was to agree with Micheal and only take the 4 on the list) must have not gone well. He knows Micheal is compromised and Micheal is unaware of Sayids plan. Now he has to make the best with what he has. The plan still holds even with the boat. The others show up, find an abandoned beach fire and see a boat. After an appropriate amount of time scouting the fire they sneak out the dock to check the boat. Sayid and Jin cut them down. Granted Sayid has completly uderestimated the Others but then so has everyone else. Even we don't know the extent of thier force or their reconnisance capabilities. I think given the time he had and the circumstances under which he was operating it was a pretty good plan. Had the writers spent a little more time (not that I wanted them too)showing why Sayid was attempting this it would have had better effect. But I understand why they couldn't I definatly needed to see that Zoom Zoom commercial one more time that night.
Posted by: Drynn_03 | October 17, 2006 at 12:36 PM
I disagree with Matt Jones's well argued Sun pushed Mr Clean out of the window theory. This is just so unlikely from a physical standpoint if nothing else -- she isn't the biggest of women and whilst Mr Clean is a bit wimpy compared to Jin I think he could handle Sun in a fight who I have down as a slapper, scratcher, and hair puller. Also how did Sun know Jin was off to deliver the 'end it' message to Mr Lee. For all she knew he was on another errand for her Dad. Are we meant to assume Sun follows Jin on all his errands or did she just assume her Dad would send Jin to 'off' Mr Clean. I think Mr Clean topped himself cause he couldn't live without Sun, hence the pearls in his hand. Unless of course Sun turned up with a gun and made him go out on the balcony then pushed him. I think until told otherwise we should take the most obvious path and that is he killed himself. I tend towards thinking that Sun accidently shot Colleen though I'm not sure about that. That said put in the right (wrong) situation I think most people are capable of lying and killing to protect either themselves or loved ones. Sun did not seem remorseful afterwards, if fact as far as we know she never told anyone she shot someone.
I had a thought about Alex and her 'that's my dress' comment to Kate. Could Alex originally in the same position as Kate -- forced to wear a dress and do hard labour ?
Team USA could yet win the WORLD Cup (not World's), they just need to toughen up some and play the game like some other countries do.
Posted by: Mark B | October 17, 2006 at 02:13 PM
Sorry just thought of another scenario.
1. Jin beats up Mr Lee.
2. Mr Lee phones Sun to tell her what happened and explain what a bad man Jin is and that she should leave Jin for him.
3. Sun tells Mr Lee she never wants to see him again and no matter what happens they are finished.
4. Mr Lee jumps, pearls in hand, as a message to Sun that she is the reason he killed himself.
Far more likely than little Sun pushing Mr Lee.
Mark B
Posted by: Mark B | October 17, 2006 at 02:24 PM
WORLD Cup (not World's)
Who cares? It’s soccer. (Kidding of course)
I pulled the Team USA example out of my ass. There is probably a better example our international audience would know of a team that is very good, but just can’t win the big one - to the point that they seem to be cursed.
As for Sun the killer. She is not a fool. Jin has to “deliver a message” for her dad on the same night her old man caught her boinking Mr. Clean. It would be reasonable to assume that she put two and two together. She follows him. She comes in after Jin leaves. She lures Mr. Clean to the balcony, returns his pearls and gives him a shove when his guard is down. I also don’t think it was a coincidence on the part of the writers that the episode began with a falling glass ballerina and includes a falling man. Of course it’s possible that Sun didn’t literally kill Mr. Clean. But, her lies certainly set the chain of events in motion that led to his death, just as they led to the firing of the maid. She knows better than anyone what her father is capable of and she put Mr. Clean at risk anyway. As for her “accidentally” shooting Colleen, when you point a gun and pull the trigger it’s hardly an accident that the person you’re pointing it at gets shot. Regardless of the extent of her culpability in Mr. Clean’s death I believe the point of Sun’s arc in this episode was to show that Sun is more calculating than we thought and that the Others are not as all knowing as we thought.
As for the Iraqi Army crack, it was just that – a crack. The only problem I had with Sayid’s plan was him putting Sun on the boat which would obviously be the Others’ main objective. Especially when Ethan showed that the Others can strike from the water.
Posted by: Matt Jones | October 17, 2006 at 02:47 PM
When I saw the episode, my first impression was that Sun killed Mr. Clean. I think it makes the most sense. Colleen telling Sun she is not a killer and won't shoot her, and what does Sun do? Sure Sun's aim wasn't them best, but her intent was to defend herself by killing Colleen (I assume Colleen is still alive).
The pearls in his hand seem more like murder than suicide, not the other way around.
Posted by: Juggs | October 17, 2006 at 03:09 PM
BRIAN!!! It's great to have you back!
Another great episode guys - even if it is the "poverty" edition!
Posted by: Courtney | October 17, 2006 at 03:22 PM
It's football not soccer. What the US refer to as football is American Football but then that game hardly uses the foot so it's a bad name I've always though Chuckball would be a better name 8-) As for a better example of an unlucky football team I would say Spain, Holland, Portugal, and to some extent England but I get your point. Having worked with a Red Sox fan in 2004 I saw what a big deal it was.
I meant Sun accidently pulled the trigger. I don't think she, unlike most of the other Losties has had previous experience with a gun. I don't think we saw her as calculating at all. She had an affair ended it and that was it really. Yes she but Mr Clean at risk but then she put herself at risk too. She lied as a child and lied as an adult. I don't think the average eight or nine year old who is in a ostion to have a maid really gives a toss if the maid is fired and they get off. Children lie to get out of trouble. She saw the maid as a scapegoat, a way out, clearly she's seen the bad side of her Dad before and would lie to avoid his wrath. She is not a good person by most peoples standards. If anything this taught us as much about her father a person who would fire someone for something he knew they didn't do rather than punish his own daughter. Similarly he would rather have Jin kill Mr Clean than punish Sun (though killing her lover would be a punishment as she was directly responsible).
However put the way you have I agree it is possible that Sun pushed Mr Clean, less likely than he jumped but possible. I don't recall Sun taking the pearls though, I thought she told Mr Clean she could not take them. If she did take them then she did it.
I also agree that the Others may not be as all knowing as we thought. They may get a video with the Dharma drops that keeps them up to date with events off island. Such big news stories as the re-election of Bush, the Red Sox winning etc. would be on the tape. They many have seen a 20:20 style tv show about Flight 815 which I'm sure would include details of Jack. There was a drop for the Swan during their time on the island why not a drop for Othersville ? However I suspect they know little more than most peoples names and general life history. Kind of what we know in flashbacks. For example they may know Charlie was in Driveshaft but I bet they don't know which school he went to.
At the present time it looks to Jack that the Others do know everything but I'm guessing they'll make a mistake after he's been turned and say something that is wrong and he'll figure it out.
Mark B
Posted by: Mark B | October 17, 2006 at 03:25 PM
Sun being at the Funeral and her looks does not fit with if she was the killer. I think Jin made it clear that the Korean Kojak was gonna have to give up his life and disappear or he would be back to kill him. I think he took the easy way out, he still had the pearls and he pined over what he had done and what he was losing and jumped. Prior to showing the pearls in his hand I assumed it was the same guy that Jin was taking to kill the last person he paid a visit too. Once I saw the pearls and then saw Sun crying at a funeral she most definatly should not have been at I assumed he jumped on his own.
In regards to the glass ballerina lie, there are 2 possibilities. She is either a spoiled brat or her Yakuza dad would have beat her severly. Either way, she lied and someone else paid the consequences for it. In regards to the affair, Jin also played a role in that. He elected to put her father before Sun so it should not have been a suprise if she cheated on him. The only thing I see strange about Sun is that her dad and Jin seem to live by the old honor code, while she is much more "westernized". Thats the fault of her parents not her.
And of coarse it was not her Intent to shoot Colleen. She was smart enough to tell Colleen to not talk loud so the ones up above would not here. So surely she was smart enough to know what would happen if she shot a gun. She jumped when they started the boat and Colleen got shot. If it is anyone's fault that she is shot it is Colleens. Sun asked to be let off the boat when Colleen first entered the cabin, but since they want to hide thier identities she paid the price.
And this is one more episode that the flshback did not fit the person that has been living on the island for the last 69 days. Sun has generally gone out of her way to help people.
Posted by: Drynn_03 | October 17, 2006 at 04:15 PM
excellent job on this podcast. you guys did a great job. thank you for including the audio comment i left you. im looking foward to this week's episode, and your upcoming podcast.
stay lost.
Posted by: anthony | October 17, 2006 at 04:30 PM
I see Sun crying at the funeral in a different way. Sort of a repentance for killing him. She is sorry in a way but had to do it for her own sake. She is selfish in the way she said the maid broke the Ballerina, protecting her own interests. Remember she chose Jin and couldn't be with Mr. Clean. One of her main interest goals was not to let Jin know about the affair, thats why at the funeral she asked her father if he told Jin anything about the affair.
And Colleen assumed Sun was not a killer because the others only have hard copy type of facts/records on the Losties, not the cover up lies that only themselves know.
Posted by: Juggs | October 17, 2006 at 04:55 PM
Out of curosity - are any of you going as anything Lost related for Halloween? I saw some great costumes at comicon and figured I'd ask. If I can get all the supplies together, I'm going as the Tivo logo which is slightly Lost related. I'd be Lost without it. *slaps knee*
Posted by: Kathy aka Fangirl | October 17, 2006 at 06:29 PM
I'm going as a Lost podcaster.
Posted by: Matt Jones | October 17, 2006 at 06:37 PM
That's some scary sh--!
Posted by: Joop | October 17, 2006 at 06:57 PM
Best Lostcast ever! No frills, no production, just actual discussion of the episode and theories. I wish every podcast was like this.
Posted by: Justin | October 17, 2006 at 07:23 PM
Drynn_03 - whoops, sorry, I missed that little lead-in screen saying "Day 12" - but it still kinda supports my theory that they took that time to do a little research on the Tailies. And, it still doesn't refute my claim that Nathan was an unworthy abductee - if he were worthy, they could have taken him that 12th night......
Well, anyway, I have one more question: I know that everyone is assuming that Alex is Rousseau's daughter, and I'm probably remembering this incorrectly, but wasn't the Rousseau's kid abducted as a baby? Why would they keep calling her Alex? If they had botten Claire's kid, would they have called him Aaron? Kinda goofy I guess, but I just thought it was weird.....
Posted by: OldManGout | October 17, 2006 at 11:32 PM
i am moving away from the sun/jin episode. btw, i don't think she killed mr. clean, and i think jack will have to save trixie...i guess that is a given.
anyway, have a question. why did the others dress in ragged clothing and disguises, etc.? Was it a disguise from the losties or a disguise from the ragged others who kidnapped the children?
i would hazard to guess that the others were hiding from the ragged others. maybe because they are really "bad". i.e., more savage and primitive? Maybe they are the 4-toed beings? Maybe they were who Clancey Brown was referring to as the hostiles (this might be true even though he was lying to desmond about other things).
it could be that these ragged others have found ways to use the island to their benefit...ways in which the original others do not understand. could explain the whispers. perhaps walt was able to tap into the ragged others?
well, this is all speculation. i am also interested in the new cast members such as rodrigo...what will his role be? also, did anyone notice when they called sayid, the iraqi? do they not have information on him?
alright, alright, alright...light 'em up.
Posted by: ursinha | October 18, 2006 at 01:58 AM
I think that the reason they kept Alex's name (beyond the obvious production reason so that we could make the connection) would be, They believe what they are doing is justified, much like the over used example of the German people thought what Hitler started out doing was right. That being the case, they were justified in their minds to take the child but being good means they let the child keep the name their parents gave them.
As to why the Other's wear disguises. I don't believe there is a "wild" group of others. I think the ones you saw with Eko and Jin are part of Fenry's group. So why the disguises? Think about what they do, they know they are going to interact with with the castaways to some extent, even if it is just the one time they take the "good" ones. So if you were stuck on an island with no chance of rescue would you try to attack a group that appears to be worse off than you or a group that appears to be living fine and has communications or a even a chance of communications with the outside world. Chances are you won't mess with someone worse off than you because you gain nothing from it. But it might be worth dieing to try and contact a rescue team. Hope that made sense.
Posted by: Drynn_03 | October 18, 2006 at 02:38 AM
Re-watched Glass Ballerina and it was way better the second time. Glossing over the whole 'worst ambush ever' made the episode way better. Think I was a bit too hard on the episode.
Listened to the official podcast last night and I got the feeling that DL and CC were having a dig at the fans for expecting too much and wanting too many answers.
SPOILERS from Offical Lost podcast follow....
1. Ben pre-dates Dharma on the island. If you believe him when he said he'd been on the island his entire life.
2. John 'Man of the Jungle' Locke returns.
3. Hints at a time paradox issue on the island.
4. We find out about Jacks tattoos (I think we knew that).
5. We get to see the Flame station.
6. There is going to be a new love triangle between Charlie, Claire and an unknown third person.
Mark B
Posted by: Mark B | October 18, 2006 at 07:35 AM
That was a good podcast the sound quality was okay. As for the above spoilers posted by Mark B the Love triangle wid charlie and Claire sounds interesting about time Claire got a main storyline. Wonder who the unknown person people will say Locke but I think that would be sick. Just speculation but maybe Desmond?
Posted by: Chris Mavis-UK | October 18, 2006 at 07:57 AM
Sorry think I read that spoiler wrong is it a new charecter or one we already know. Depends on how you interpret unknown.
Posted by: Chris Mavis-UK | October 18, 2006 at 07:59 AM
Chris Mavis-UK -- the way I interpreted it the unknown person could be either a current character or a new one.
Does anyone have a list of the next four episodes and who will get the flashbacks ? I saw it on a website somewhere but can't find it now.
Not that I'm counting but it's less than 12 hours to Lost.
Mark B
Posted by: Mark B | October 18, 2006 at 09:15 AM
mark B - try spoilerfix.com
Posted by: OldManGout | October 18, 2006 at 09:25 AM
Happy Lost Day!
Posted by: Kathy aka Fangirl | October 18, 2006 at 01:19 PM
And a very Happy Lost Day to you too!
Posted by: Courtney | October 18, 2006 at 02:55 PM
Damn I have to wait till Thursday morining GMT :(
Posted by: Chris Mavis-UK | October 18, 2006 at 03:25 PM
All I can say is ....Whoa
That should have been the Premier. Welcome back, Island. We missed you.
And in the Famous words of Locke..."We're gonna have to watch that again.."
Posted by: Drynn_03 | October 18, 2006 at 10:05 PM
Tonights episode was excellent. I was so happy to see our old Locke back in action...
What does everyone think about the interaction between Desmond and Hurley?
Any thoughts?
Stay Lost!
Posted by: melontherocks | October 18, 2006 at 10:13 PM
I really yhought the airport scene was great, Charlies refrence to the movie Alterd States about John going into his magic hut and devolving into a monkey, was very funny. And whatever is going on with Desmond will surely prove interesting. This ranks with me as one of the best shows.. I look forward to more...
Posted by: Drynn_03 | October 18, 2006 at 10:24 PM
Easter Egg Edwards Sheriff Number is : 4 8 0 23
Timeline for flashback is 1989 or 1990
Posted by: Drynn_03 | October 18, 2006 at 10:49 PM
Not to beat a dead horse on the Red Sox thing, but nobody's gone back to look up the possible significance (at least in Jack's mind) of learning about the Sox victory. In "Outlaws" of Season 1, he told Sawyer, "Its just something my father used to say going through life knowing that people hated him. Instead of taking responsibility for it, he just put it on fate. Said he was made that way."
Ben probably didn't know that Jack's dad used the Red Sox' 80 years of bad luck to justify his own chosen fate, but that recording clearly affected him in a more personal way just finding out that his favorite team won the Series (even considering the whole curse thing). That personal connection is what made Jack want to cooperate so he can return home... it's all wrapped up in them daddy's issues.
Also, that was episode 16 of Season 1, so 2004 Series was long over when it aired.
Posted by: Jason | October 18, 2006 at 10:52 PM