LOSTCasts 45: Stranger in a Strange Land

This latest podcast focuses on Season 3, episode 10 of LOST, Stranger in a Strange Land. We talk about the mixed reactions to this Jack-centric episode of LOST, and connections to the Robert A. Heinlein book of the same title. In addition, we explore Jack's flashback, tattoos, and evolving relationship with Juliet and the Others, as well as the new "sheriff", Isabelle, and our brief interaction with Kate, Sawyer and Karl. As always, we cover some LOST links, and what to expect in the next episode.

Download podcast #45 here

Links related to the podcast:
Take our survey!
Why LOST is "lost" blog post
Shishir Kurup on IMDB
The Fuselage: Rate this episode
When will all the right questions be asked thread
Stranger in a Strange Land Wikipedia entry
Buy Stranger in a Strange Land on Amazon
Bai Ling singing (TVgasm.com)
Author J. Wood on Rosicrucian connection

LOST links:
Make your own DHARMA rations

As we mention in the podcast, please fill out this survey to help us sell advertising to upgrade our equipment and cover costs associated with the podcast. Thanks!

See you next week. Stay LOST.

Comments

[waitingforlost]

Guess I'm first to dwonload it .....

[my-2-cents]

SPOILER ALERT! (1st posted Feb 17th). Spoilerfix.com reveals "Eye-Patch-Man" as Mikhail Bakunin, named after the 19th-century Russian anarchist / philosopher / anti-Marxist revolutionary of the same name. [Episode 11 – “Enter 77” – airs March 7th]. Having double-checked imdb.com, actor Andrew Divoff is clearly the same face we saw in episode 5 staring back at us from the Pearl Station TV screen. Divoff is officially credited with appearing in that episode, and has played some pretty creepy characters before. The real Mikhail Bakunin was always in trouble with Russian authorities over extreme political views, but was a master of escape and a master organizer of political movements & revolutions from Europe to Japan. Aside from his fiery personality & extreme philosophies of government, the best nuggets I found from Wikipedia about Bakunin relating to LOST are:
(1) Bakunin “spent three years in the underground dungeons of the Fortress of St Peter and St Paul” which may correlate to Eye-Patch-Man being stuck in the Flame Station as someone’s prisoner.
(2) “He later recounted that he found some relief in mentally re-enacting the legend of Prometheus.” This may explain the name of the FLAME station since, in the Greek legend, “Zeus in his wrath denied men the secret of fire.” Later, Zeus “had his revenge” on Prometheus by arranging for a special gift box to be given at his brother’s wedding. “When Pandora opened the box, all suffering and despair was unleashed upon mankind.”
Summing it up, When Locke & Sayid & Kate release Eye-Path-Man from his dungeon, what kind of suffering and despair will he unleash on the Lostaways?

[Justin (AKA Locke Junior)]

Thanks guys for getting the podcast up early - This makes my Sundays!

[Seth]

Good podcast! But for the love of smokey, why the Bai Ling clip? My ears!

[Jur]

Eeeh, episode 10 ???? You can easily change that to 9 dispite your old equipment.

[Cihan]

You mispronounced my name (its kinda pronounced 'jee-han') but I love you guys anyway. When you start getting in revenue, you guys should do a vidcast.

I'm going to do my best Gob impression and say COME ON!!! One group of Others! Those two kids are the same actors from the beginning of season 2! COME ON!!!

I also laughed my arse off at Bai Ling singing. This is ironic though because I saw a film with her last month ('3 Extremes') and she had a good singing voice!

As for Heroes, I'm not a hater but the writing is no way near on the level of Lost, and there are plot holes and inconsistencies everywhere, I just cant take it as seriously as I take our beloved island show. Also they brought back that goddamn Indian voice over at the beginning of every episode, godamnit.

Last of all, to the people demanding characters interrogating other characters for all the answers, these scenes you want just wouldnt make good television. There's nothing worse than exposition and thats what you guys want. I'd rather have Jack scream spittle at Cindy for a few seconds than ask dozens of questions and get answers in return. Seriously.

Oh, and interesting stuff about tattoos guys.

[Mark B]

Thanks for reading my comment even if it was a bit negative. Great podcast.

After watching the epi again I actually quite liked the island stuff just Jacks backstory was so lame. It was not a great episode but it was OK.

J Wood would be a great guest.

@Cihan, I don't want interogation or a vast amount of exposition I just wamt the Lostaways to act like normal people and ask a few questions.

Oh and the survey is great -- I particularly like the part about if I'd trust the podcasters opinions on certain things like, financial advice, healthcare, cars, movies, alchohol, tobaco ..... 8-)

Just sell some t-shirts, mugs etc and be done with it.

[Cihan]

Mark B, we've gone 3 seasons watching characters act not normal...its fun! Admit it.

[jg]

Great Podcast. While, this episode apparently received a “mediocre” score on the “Fuselage”, this podcast should get a 9 or 10.

Whereas, I am out of theories worth mentioning, I do have some questions.
1. Jack appears to be calm and collected most of the time. Then he appears to melt down at inappropriate times. Is he an alcoholic or something?
2. How much suspension of belief do we have to endure?
a. Medical preposterousness
b. They do not talk to each other.

3. Does anybody else think that the literary references are anything more than nods to the works and authors, than really having anything to do with this story?

I would have tattooed “I’m a Dufus” in Chinese or Swaheli if I were the threatened chick. But, maybe that is what it really means.

Cheers
jg

[Neale in the UK]

Okay, firstly great podcast guys, people were looking at me weird as i was walking down my high street as i was laughing at you guys clowning around... can we have photo prof of Roberts Tear Tattoo? lol.
I enjoyed the episode on the whole, i dont mind Jack as a character, i mean come on, theres pretty much no way that they could kill him off...we might as well get used to crying ways.

***Question about Spoiler***

Right, i've seen the previews and you guys mentioned that Vinncent find and give Hurly a dead blokes hand with a key to the VW van on it... Right, hold on a minute!! Didn't we have photo prof.. Screen Cap posted at the end of season two that Vinncent was on the boat with Walt and Micheal????????????????????????? So he swam back???????

Is it me and my drunk man memory but isn't that the case????

[MrSmartyPants]

On the whole Achara/Hindu/Thailand thing...

Although the name Achara does appear to originate from the name of a clan within the Jat ethnic group from India (from the Wikipedia entry), it's not that outlandish that such a name would appear in Thailand. There's a Thai model named Achara Tongtep (http://www.pixiart.com/stars/thai/ , semi-NSFW). Also, there's lots of Hindu influence in Southeast Asia. The island of Bali in Indonesia is still largely Hindu, though the rest of the island chain is mostly Muslim. The Champa civilization in Central Vietnam, which predated the Vietnamese, followed Hinduism. Plus, Theravada Buddhism (practiced in Thailand among other countries) of course has a huge Hindu/Indian influence.

[Sobaika]

Great stuff about the tattoos. I think it was interesting that in this past episode both Juliet and Jack were essentially branded. For different reasons and with different meanings (not that we know what Juliet's means) but very different than they way we look at tattoos.

[Cameron]

Apologies if this has already been posted, but for anyone who has not seen it, it is very funny. It is a send up of the awards LOST has won.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctSeLc2JUM4

[Jealous_Guy]

Hey, thanks for the quote-out :D Very cool. Once again you guys prove to me why this is the podcast I most look forward to every week.

It's funny, the more I watch this episode, the more I like it. I'm still racking my brain about that whole scene with Isabel, though. First, Jack covers up for Juliet for no other reason that I can imagine other than that he has the hots for her, and then even more befuddling is that Isabel seems to know he is lying about it. I don't know how she could know or if she's psychic, or if she's just pretending to know, but all this time we thought that cue card scene between J&J was a secret, now all of a sudden Isabel knows. So who else knows? Is this supposed to mean that Juliet was "in on it" the whole time, that all the Others knew about the cue card video? Or maybe all the Others except Ben know about it? This one's frying my brain just about as much as "Flashes".

[Lorne]

I can't believe I didn't realize this till now. If Freckles gets her wish and tries to rescue Jack, she'll be going back to Alcatraz. But it looks like Jack's going to the main island, to Othersville!
So they'll be going in opposite directions!

[alex's slingshot]

@ Lorne

Well if that pointless goose chase takes up the rest of the season I'll be pissed. Kate and Sawyer finally get back to the beach only to gather a bunch of people to leave again and go BACK to Alcatraz when they could be looking for the Others village on the island which would be way more productive for them and the viewers. I mean Karl did tell them about their "backyards" and what not, but those idiots set him free before interrogating him further. I swear if they head right back out there and then all of a sudden it's Kate, Locke and Sayid in the polar bear cages I will be pissed.

[biolite]

Yeah I found the Carl part of the show aggrivating. Kate and Sawyer both saw the brainwashing room, once Carl started talking funny I would or tied his hands. It was such irrational behavior it made me wonder if Sawyer let him go with some other purpose in mind. He was awfully entranced by that brainwashing screen ;)

Is it just me or have the flashbacks this season sucked? (not including desmond) I've always enjoyed the lost format but all the flashbacks we've seen for our established characters (Jack, locke, Kate, etc) have been really redundant. Yes we know Locke is a sucker, we know Jack has issues, how many more times are we going to see the same story dressed in a different flashback?

Also, I have no problem with you guys overusing the word interesting. That's what Lost is, interesting.

I think the Losties' return to "Alcatraz" might be interesting. The others have ditched that station, just like they ditched the medical hatch that Claire was held at. Now that the Losties know where the island is they're moving on, going back to Othersville. It'll be neat to see what Kate, Locke and Sayid might find in the abandoned Hydra station when they get there.

[frankmorris]

I agree w/ Jealous guy that Juliet may be 'in on it'. There's been so much effort to make us feel sorry for Juliet, the big twist maybe that she is fully indoctrinated & playing Jack to the hilt. Jack just may be 'converted' & Kate will save him in a much deeper sense.

I really don't understand the posts that try to portray the Losties as just as bad as the others, after Toms glass house comment. Every great work of fiction has a great villain, & when has playing God ever worked out well?....Jonestown anyone?

[j-me]

First off, I don't think you guys can dismiss there being other uh?thers.

Danielle is not of the other uh?thers, so doesn't she qualify as another other? And if Danielle has been living there on her own, why wouldn't there still be OTHERS that have also been ostracized by the uh?thers?

Did anyone (else) pick up on something Juliette said. She said that Ben calls Othersville (Capitol of Bensilvania?) home. He sent Walt and Michael “home” and promised Jack and Julliette they could go “home”.

Could Ben just be f-ing with their heads. “Here you go, you’re home….oh wait - you thought I meant YOUR home? Sorry no can do.”

Anyway, great podcast for what I hope was the suckiest Lost episode of all time.

Get found.

[Jamie (c)]

OBTW- perhaps I’ve been on an island somewhere but when did we learn that Alex was actually Danielle’s daughter (and not just viewer speculation)? I notice on IMDB they credit her as Alex Rousseau.

I would think they would credit her as Alex Linus, seeing as how we know him to be her “dad”. Or is this like Jonestown (Benstown?) where Ben is the dad for all the childrens?

I must have missed the discussion about that.

[mooze]

I'm starting to think that the "This was the best/worst episode ever!" feedback is kind of useless. People are saying either one of those for every single episode. It's relentless.

The new time slot sucks. :/

[Mark B]

@ Jamie (c)

We found Danielle had a daughter called Alex when she (Danielle) told Sayid (I think) that she was 7 months pregnant when she was shipwreked on the island and she gave birth to a daughter she named Alex. She later said that Alex was taken by the Others. Not sure when exactly we found out that gem but we did. I'm sure someone knows the exact epi. I think it was the epi when Sayid followed the cable and got taken prisoner. Not sure how the Others knew Alexs name because she wouldn't have told them being a baby. The assumption has always been that Danielle wandered the island shouting for Alex in the style of Miicheal calling for Waaaaalllllllt.

Of course Danielle could be lying and she may have spied on the Others, found out they had a girl called Alex and made up the entire story. She could be an Other or even one of the other Others that may or may not exist. Or she could just be some loony woman with a dodgy eastern european accent who happens to speak French and English.

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

I've always wondered why Danielle would make that broadcast in French if she spoke English and English seems like it would be more commonly known that French.

I also didn't understand how they took her baby, but she told Sayid that she never saw anyone on the island. Plus the whole comment about - they will lie for a very long time. She's not telling us something.

I trust that they did take her daughter, but the exact circumstances seem to be a bit muddy. I'm still waiting to hear who Brandon is and what keys she is talking about in her broadcast plus why oh why does she like the Black Rock so much.

[Mark B]

@Kathy aka fangirl

I agree about the broadcast being in French is odd. English is a far more world language (OK I know Mandarin is the first language spoken by more people)

Who is Brandon and when did she mention keys ?

I missed that.

Wild speculation after an early evening beer ..... Danielle is Jacob.

[Jamie (c)]

@ Mark B

Of course I know about the Danielle stolen baby story but that she said her name was Alex I must have missed. Alex still having the name would be quirky but not un-Lost like.

Still, if she's Henry's daughter shouldn't her credit be Alex Linus, unless of course the uh?thers never bothered with changing her last name.

Henry: Here's my Daughter Alex Rousseau, oh she has her mom's last name. We thought it best so she knows her lineage.

Certainly this could all be explained the next time they feel like giving us some USEFUL character history.

I mean Danielle might have once been the REAL leader of the uh?thers and divorced Ben, leaving him with custody of Alex. Danielle got the cool private shack with the radio.

Sure would like to see more of her story than ANY MORE of Jack's Tats or the dysfunctional love triangle.

j-me

[Mark B]

@ Jamie (c)

I guess TPTB want us to think Alex is Danielles Alex so give her that second name. No one on the show, to my knowledge has ever refered to her as anything other than just plain Alex. It's not like they've run a DNA test or anything. I think Cuse and Lindeloff have refered to her as Danielles daughter in the official podcasts.

The viewer assumption has always been we believe the crazy French-Croatian-Bosnian-Latvian-Polish woman who told us about the Others in the first place and not Ben. Not sure why really. I can't recall Danielle being caught in a lie but Ben has on a bunch of occasions so her beliveability quotiant is higher.

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

Shannon's translation was not very accurate. The Actual translation is:

If anybody can hear this, they are dead.
I'll try to go to the Black Rock.
Please help us.

Please help us.

He (or it) is outside, he's (it's) outside, and Brandon took the keys.
Please help us.
They are dead.
They are all dead.

They are all dead, help us...

Please help us.
PLEASE help us.

If anybody can hear this, I ask him (most probably not 'it') to go to the Black Rock.
Please help us.
They are all dead.
They are dead.
He (it) kill them, he (it) kill them all.
I ask him (most probably not 'it') to go to the Black Rock.

this is from: http://www.patriotresource.com/lost/insights/french.html

[Joop]

interesting :)

[Jeff]

Did anyone else get a sense from the last episode that the real "stranger in a strange land" is Ben, not Jack? There was something about the way that the final scene depicted the injured Ben being lifted into the boat that really set him apart from the Others. This effect was enhanced as the sheriff was confirming the meaning of the Jack's tattoo's right as the camera was focused on Ben.

I'm probably way off base but based upon his ultimate authority, his being called Alex's father, his emotional separateness from Juliette and the Others, and the fact that he's the only one claiming to have always lived on the island, his situation somewhat fits Michael Valentine in the Heinlein novel.

It's like they were using Jack's story to tell us something about Ben.

Just an idea. Thanks for the great podcast.

[sam]

YES!!! I got quoted two weeks in a row!!
Great podcast, especially that Sam guy, where does he get his genious? Anyways, just wanted to say great podcast, and I love how you guys seem to talk more about Heroes than LOST in the first bit of the podcast.

[Jeff]

Here's a quote from Heinlein's book:

"Smith is an intelligent creature with the ancestry of a man, but he is more Martian than man. Until we came along he had never laid eyes on a man. He thinks like a Martian, feels like a Martian. He's been brought up by a race which has nothing in common with us--they don't even have sex. He's a man by ancestry, a Martian by environment. . . "

What a perfect description of a born-from-a-Dharma-experiment Ben!

[Jason]

To the commenter who mentioned Vincent being on the boat with Michael and Walt. Apparently Vincent was on the boat when the filmed it, but was edited out before it aired so... we were to assume he was not on the boat.

[Tahir]

Re. The Lost Experience.

Its sort of obvious to me that the producers/writers really don't want to go the 'mythology' route with this show.Hence The Lost Experience.
Probably, near the end of season 1, they saw the mass of internet interest in Losts' mythology and decided to make TLE to keep us 'geeks' happy.
Matts comments about artists being the last to know why their stuff is succesfull seems to apply here.WE want Lost to go down the mythology route but the writers want to go down the human relationships route.
The problem is there are tons of shows about human relationships on tv...if thats all Lost is then that explains why the show started at 23 million viewers and is now down to 13 million.

I still like Lost but its not the show I thought it was at the beginning.

[Paddy_N]

Just had a thought while listening to the podcast. While you were discussing Bai Ling's gift. Something dawned on me, she said her gift was to see who people are. Then describe Jack the be a good/great man etc. (Tenuous link ahead)

What if she is on the island and has some part in making the "list" of good people that Ben talks of. She can tell which are the good people and the bad

OR

She had some part in orchestrating who ended up on the plane in the first place. Just a thought

[Cihan]

Good comment Tahir, I think you've got it right concerning the Lost Experience's purpose. Although I think we may seem them indulge in mythology more in the show to placate their ever-frustrated fanbase. I honestly dont mind either way, its a well written show most of the time and keeps me entertained, whether its delving into sci-fi tinged conspiracy theories or dealing with dramatic character interactions (say what you want about Michael's character, but this dude brought alot of entertaining and emotional stuff to the show, the episode where he confesses to killing Ana Lucia was really good)

[waitingforlost]

@frankmorris

I think I may have started the Losties are bad as the Others comments. I guess my point was that the Losties aren't angels, they've done plenty of bad stuff themselves. I know the Others started it by taking the kids and the 'good ones' from the taillies and kidnapping Claire and hanging Charlie and killing Sceve and taking Walt but the Losties have done their fair share of killing (I'm sure the Losties are winning the death match) and they've thrown in a bit of torture and imprisonment of their own. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that.

I think the writers are trying to keep banging away at the fact that there is no black or white /good or bad and it's all perspective. OK at present we don't know what the Others motives are (because the Losties won't ask any questions) but they are doing what they think is right (in a similar way that Mr Benett in Heroes is doing what he thinks is right, he likes the morally grey areas). The writers are also taking time to personalize the Others (esp. Tom) so we like them and therefore care what happens to them. Pickett we all hated but now a lot of people like Tom, he's a nice guy.

BTW I'm liking this LOST (and LOSTcasts) is on every week deal. 9pm isn't too late, kids are in bed asleep, dinner eaten etc. You can pause it on your Tivo as it begins and not start watching until 9:20 or so then fast forward through the commercials and still get finished by 10pm.

BTW2 Another LOST vs Heroes cross over. Not in yesterdays episode but the one before. When Dr Suresh and Silar are at the motel, Suresh goes into Room 23.

[Bekka]

@Podcasters (Maybe this will help with the "interesting" problem... :)

From Thesaurus.com
Main Entry: interesting
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: appealing
Synonyms: absorbing, affecting, alluring, amusing, arresting, attractive, beautiful, captivating, charismatic, compelling, curious, delightful, elegant, enchanting, engaging, engrossing, entertaining, enthralling, entrancing, exceptional, exotic, fascinating, fine, gracious, gripping, impressive, intriguing, inviting, lovely, magnetic, pleasing, pleasurable, prepossessing, provocative, readable, refreshing, riveting, stimulating, stirring, striking, suspicious, thought-provoking, turn-on, unusual, winning
Antonyms: boring, uninteresting

But seriously, I never noticed how many times you said "Interesting" on the podcast until you pointed it out. That's all for now...Stay Lost!

[Justin]

@Cihan
"say what you want about Michael's character, but this dude brought alot of entertaining and emotional stuff to the show, the episode where he confesses to killing Ana Lucia was really good"

You mean the season 2 finale?
Yeah, that was a good little episode...

[Cihan]

Heh, because of the damn break, the season 2 finale feels so long ago, I thought Michael's confession was a couple episodes before the finale. I cant wait for his and Walt's return in season [insert random number], there's still plenty of story left for those two.

Concerning the Mittlelos bunch (probably more accurate description than 'others' at this point), I dont think the purpose of this season was so much to get us to like them as it was to get us to simply understand where they're coming from, why they're doing what they're doing. Of course midway through season 3 we still dont friggin know, but by the time we do then it'll make for good viewing, like Battlestar Galactica and all the complex and conflicted characters and motives floating around that show.

Personally I still dont like Tom, and am disappointed in his growing fanbase. Sure he's interesting and humourous but his character is as much a jerk as he was when he was tossing grenades while wearing a big bushy beard.

[Tahir]

@Bekka

I've noticed a lot of other podcasts I listen to say the word 'interesting' in abundance too.I HAVE noticed our podcast dudes say the word a lot but really didn't want to come on in here and mention it.

@Justin

I agree.Bring the dude back.Failing that lets have a mass killing off of characters.Not Charlie though.I used to hate the guy but after watching Deadwoods' character, E.B. Farnum, I finally 'get' the point of Charlie.
Like E.B. Charlie floats between groups and leaves the hints for future antagonisms.

[Brian]

Regarding Alex - If they made her character name Alex Linus from the beginning, then there would be no point in the reveal of her as Ben's daughter.

[Brian]

Can I bring up the prior comment on Saywer's character...We still don't really know what they did to him when they took him. And he was strangely engrossed in activities of the room that Karl was locked in (oddly, the 2 women showed little interest). Ever since then Sawyer seems to have come to terms with certain things...he was ready to die at the hands of Pickett and his buddy. Ever since the heart-rate monitor episodes, we've seen Sawyer's hard edge soften a bit.

This brings up the question: Why did he let Karl go?

1) He considers him useless dead-weight during his trip back to the beach with Kate.

2) He let him go so he could follow Karl to the Other's camp without Karl knowing (so Karl would not be punished).

3) He was told to by Ben (or someone else) in return for some other favor...maybe to go home???

Discuss...

[static]

LOST is like that relationship you have..where you're totally obsessed with eachother and love eachother to bits but then they start acting funny..and they're not who you thought they were. From there..you can either let the relationship die and stop watching, or try to make it work and keep watching. Personally, and ironically enough[not being a "woman of faith"] I'm going to make it work. Cause I really believe LOST is something magnificent and unlike anything I've ever known. It's made me happy from day one.

Honestly though..LOST is different now, nothing can stay the same forever, but I'm okay with that. I still thoroughly, completely, 100% enjoy it and rarely have any complaints about it. Chill out sailors, hold on for the ride, and you might enjoy it more and find less to whine about.

..lol.

P.S. - I didn't really understand Tom's glass house comment.. x_x Enlighten me?

[waitingforlost]

@static

Tom made some comment about Jack being in a glass house and getting him some stones after Jack had listed all the bad things the Others had done. That is a reference to the phrase "People in glass houses shouldn't through stones" which simple put means that you should not make comments about other people if you've done the same or similar thing. So Tom was telling Jack the Lostaways are not so innocent as Jack made out.

[waitingforlost]

@Brian

I think letting Karl go was for another reason .... the one Sawyer said ....

When Ben finds out that Karl is with the Lostaways he'll send some bad people in to get him. Karl must have done something really bad to get stuck in Room 23. I'd like to know what an Other has to do to get sent there or if this is just part of an indoctrination process they all go through. Maybe Sawyer was sent there, we are to asume he and Kate were in Jacobs list.

OK potential flaw in Sawyers plan, Karl can't go back to the Others or they will "kill me this time" so Ben will have no reason not to think Karl is with the Lostaways and will send the bad people to get him anyway. They will not find Karl but will not believe the Lostaways just let him go. So trouble is brewing. This assumes Ben finds out Karl was with Kate and Sawyer on the boat and doesn't think Karl is hiding on Alcatraz somewhere. Not sure if anyone else saw him in the canoe.

I'm sure there's a whole in my logic.

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

This cracked me up. Here is the mini description for last week's Lost episode:

"Lost - All right! The most compelling mystery of all gets explained this episode! Well, no, not that one…no, we still don't know what's going on there, either…no, apparently the numbers don't mean anything and we've heard all we're going to hear about them…okay, never mind. We finally find out what Jack's tattoo means! No, it's not how he was scared during surgery and counted to five…the other part of the tattoo! The Chinese stuff! Yes, I can sense your excitement."

[Khatruman]

Hi,

Long time listener and reader of this forum, but first time poster.

Ok, I have a couple of theories to put forth, the first of which came to me from the latest episodes, and the second coming off of listening to the podcast.

The first is in regards to the good/great theme. It seems people have looked at the good people comments in regards to good vs. bad: that they are morally right. We have seen this ironically in regards to the Others, in that what they have done, from what we have seen, as morally wrong, yet they stand by their being good. Now, in the past couple episodes, a good vs. great dynamic has been reinforced. Now we seem to be looking at good as a kind of comparative/superlative dynamic. With Desmond, it seems he is told that he is good to a degree but will never achieve the next step up, which is greatness.

What if we look at good and great in another way? The good people are those who are part of society, working for the good of all others (pun intended). A good person goes with the society to help perpetuate that society and its status quo. A great person is more outside of society. There are few great ones, and to quote the famous Emerson "to be great is to be misunderstood." Great people shake things up, create change, and are not the hobgoblins of little people, or minds. This isn't saying that great people are necessarily good, or a higher order of good. What they do may be harmful to others (pun again intended), but they are exceptional: "They walk among us, but they are not one of us."

Ok, now as to my second theory, it works out of a comment the guys made on the possibility that the Losties were manipulated, perhaps by Dharma to be on the plane. There is evidence in the show, even in the random connections between them, that they were brought to be on that plane. The guys concluded that this was done to bring them to the island alive for whatever purposes.

What if they were manipulated to be on Flight 815 to be killed?

Think about it... one of the criticisms of the realism of the show is the unbelievability of all these people surviving that plane crash. One lost essay collection has an article by a pilot stating how impossible it would be even for a few to survive, let alone over 40 of them! Why would Dharma choose this method to save them? It would most logically kill them. They were off course with no radio contact for quite a while, easy to disappear and die and never be found. Perhaps they were key to the Valenzetti equation, and their demise might change the numbers (or at least one of them) enough to save humanity.

However, as Mrs. Hawking pointed out, the universe has a way of course correcting, and perhaps their survival on the island was that course correction. Think about how closely the Losties are tied to the numbers, especially in the character of Hurley, who almost represents the numbers themselves. What is his "bad luck" all about? It causes damage to others (pun again intended), but what does it do for him? He is arrested--he sues and makes more money, his box company is destroyed, he makes more money in insurance. Hurley's bad luck is bad for others (uh huh), but it brings him fortune. The numbers like him. It is his guilt over what it does to... uhhh, you know... that causes him misery.

So was Dharma trying to kill them, like it was using a virus to attack a selected portion of the population, and the equation working to keep them from that death? What do you think?

[Bekka]

@Khatruman

I don't have much to say except that I really liked your theories! Thanks for joining us by posting. I think you might be onto something with the one about Dharma intending to kill the Losties to change the numbers...Very interesting!

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

Happy Lost Day!

I was just curious if anyone else noticed in the preview for tonight (so this is spoilery for those that think commericals are spoilery)Charlie says "Victory or Death." Now that may be from something else, but it immediatlely makes me think of "Last Starfighter." Just wondering if anyone else thought that. Not that it means anything just made me smile and immediately turn to my roommate and say "Greetings Starfighter. You have been recruited by the star league to defend the frontier against Zor and the kodan armada."

[Lorne]

What an interesting week for the writers to run and hide instead of having a new podcast... oh well, here's hoping they're in the war room trying to figure out how they can fix it before Feb Sweeps are over. Wow, I can't believe they put Stranger in a Strange Land during sweeps...

[Chris in Oly]

@Brian and @Waitinforlost:

Reading the discussion of why Sawyer let Karl go, I think the reason he gave is his logical one - but I also think he did it so Kate would not go running off to find Jack.

When they were escaping from alcatraz on the boat, Kate wanted to row around the island while Sawyer was sleeping, and Sawyer would not let her since he thought she would turn around and go back to get Jack.

I think that Sawyer was using the same logic, if Karl is around Kate will use him to find Jack. So by getting rid of Karl it would slow Kate down and prevent her from running off right away.

[Nash]

Lost jigsaw puzzle cipher cracked:
http://www.lostblog.net/lost/tv/show/jigsaw-puzzle-cipher-cracked

Nothing blatantly spoilerish has come out thus far, despite the warnings. It has some strange food ramblings, about peanut butter (Claire/Charlie Season 1 reference) and mac and cheese (Season 3 reference, was seen in the supply drop). It confirms some abbreviations from the blast door map (CV = Cerberus Vent, P.R.D. = Periodic Resupply Drop; we now know they occur every 6-8 months).

THERE IS NO SICKNESS
NEED MORE MAC AND CHEESE
PERIODIC RESUPPLY DROP
ALVAR HANSO
WHAT GOOD IS PEANUT BUTTER AND CEREAL WITHOUT MILK
QUARANTINE IS A HOAX
DHARMA INITIATIVE HANSO GROUP
CERBERUS VENT
EMERGENCY ESCAPE PROTOCOL

[Lorne]

*sob*
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/02/28/apontv.salvagejob.ap/index.html

ABC must find a stronger lead-in for the show, which recently has aired after either its own reruns or sitcoms, and the producers need to focus the story lines on key characters: "Get those people in danger, have them sleep together, create those jealousies," Nunan said.

In other words, sex sells.
------------------------------
No, for the love of god, don't do that!

[SMKGrl]

Thanks for the depressing post Lorne. It just hit me...what if Lost really is going to start spinning out of control from where we are now? The good writers will jump ship, we'll never get a good ending and we'll all be disgruntled. I don't like to be a conspriracy theorist, but my first thought when I saw the shortened Official Lost Podcast this week was "OMG...Carlton and Damon have quit from all the abuse they took about this episode". Now, I kid, but seriously it seems suspicious that they didn't have a podcast this week. Can't they even face their most die-hard fans?

[Sarah]

Paolo and Nikki get a flashback in Episode 14, Expos.

[Nash]

I'm sorry, but anyone who puts Studio 60, Friday Night Lights, and Lost in the same ratings predicament needs to get their head examined. Lost qualifies as ABC's most-watched series in the Wednesday 10 o'clock hour in 9 years and its top-rated among Adults 18-49 in 10 years - since the 1998-97 and 1996-97 TV Seasons, respectively.
http://darkufo.blogspot.com/search/label/Ratings

Remember to go to
http://go.yaplet.com/?url=http://www.lostcasts.com
for an informal live chat during the episode tonight

[frankmorris]

@ waitingforlost & other moral relatavists :)

I'm fine w/ the writers showing a different side of the others.
I just miss the dark, menacing tones of the previous seasons.

About the glass house comment, Tom may be referring to something in Jacks past that we haven't seen yet. Remember how much information they had on him?
In the same episode Jack seemed to be starting a tailspin of weird behavior, which may be something they exploit to 'convert' him.

I don't know...if the others are really the 'good guys'.
I hope the bad guys show up soon.

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

The people that I know who have walked away from Lost would come back if there was a reasonable end date and a promise from the writers that each episode would move us toward that date. I think ABC is better off ending the show early on a high note and make a fortune off the DVDs then let it drag out X-Files style.

[Jon Dunn]

That episode - yecch. I really liked the "why lost is lost" essay and it rings true to me. I mean, if you listen to the official lost podcast, you can only conclude that either 1) lindelof et al really have no inspiration or that 2) they're effecting an elaborate ruse of having no inspiration. Either way I was too bummed out to listen to that podcast too often. Now, the "is lost" essay seems to sum up quite clearly the random and uninspired nature of what's going on in the writing den.

[waitingforlost]

Having given this all of 30 seconds thought it may be that the Others are not comparing themselves to the Lostaways but to the outside world in general when they refer to themselves as the good guys. It may be that they think they are saving the world by doing whatever they are doing. If the Lost Experience is to be believed then Dharma/Hanso were trying to save the world by altering the Valenzeti Equation. Direct assumption is that the Others are continuing that work.

Off to watch LOST now. Apparently the rating were up by about 100,000 from Flashes to Stranger. I hope Stranger didn't put people off.

People I know stopped watching cause they couldn't be bothered with all the subplots and endless questions and lack of story moving forward. In general people watch shows that have a story encapsulated in an hour or two max. People like instant entertainment. Movies last 3 hours max. Only exceptions I can think of are Lord of the Rings which managed to keep the public interested for 9 hours or so and maybe 24. LOST is about 55 hours long and we are probably half way done.

[Nash]

any thoughts on what the reveal is going to be at the end of tonight's episode?

[ebonX]

I just wanted to respond to some comments from this discussiion thread ...

@Cihan - I am a huge Heroes fan and actually think the writing is very good for what its supposed to be ... If LOST is a 1000 page mystery novel, Heroes is a weekly comic book ... Both shows imho are written well, just written for completely different purposes.

@Jealous Guy - When I saw Isabel interrogating Jack, what reason does Jack have to tell the truth ... It's not a court of law ... What repercussions were there to him lying? I was thinking I would do the same thing when I was watching ... It could only help Juliet.

@Kathy et al - You guys got me thinkin on the whole Danielle deal ... What if she is Jacob (or the leader of the Others above Ben)? We only took her info to be true in S1 (Alex, shipwreck, French message, etc.) because we didn't know any better. What if Rousseau took that name the same way Ben took the name Henry Gale? Remember that Sayid was the one to mention the message in French, not Rouseau ... This would also explain the whole Eastern European accent and her speaking English (as I agree, if one spoke English, why would one make a distress call in French).

@Jeff - I think Jack is the "stranger among us" to the Others, but Ben is the "stranger among us" to the audience ... Thus "He looks like a man, but behaves like a Martian".

@Tahir - I am in total agreement with you as to the reason for TLE ... It is to expand the mythology of the LOST universe. I have always said that the TPTB set-up TLE in much the same way the Star Wars franchise is/was set-up ... The TPTB used the TLE to simply expand the LOST universe mythology, but that info is not necessary to the central mysteries of the show itself.

Sorry for the long post ... Stay LOST!

[Lorne]

Trisha Tanaka is dead....
Wow... well what the heck was that? A Family Guy shoutout? Did the writers decide that instead of a plot, they needed as many Sawyer 1 liners as they could thing of?
If I wanted to see a bad buddy movie, I could go see Road Hogs!
And if anything Hurley's flashbacks diminished his character, which is so so sad. Especially how they throw the numbers in our face, and then do NOTHING with them, unless there is some hidden thing somewhere... what a waste of sweeps...

[Tahir]

I liked TT is dead.It was a good fun episode.

No mysteries or adventure or mythology but I'm really not expecting too much of that anymore.I've made my peace as to where Lost is going and now am just gonna enjoy it while it lasts.

[Brian]

Great episode. Fun A story with the Hurley party van, some interesting character developement, Charlie becomes fun again, and we get a great set-up for a Commando style rescue of Jack. All around good stuff.

[alex's slingshot]

Better than last week, IMO. I like having more group scenes, esp. w/ hurley, charlie, sawyer and jin.

But more exciting to me are the previews for next week. Patchy is connected to Sayid somehow?? I hope so, it would mean Sayid is actually getting a decent story line, much less a story line at all.

[Nash]

I see the need for comic relief with a show like Lost, but I'm not sure now was the time for it. I realize finding the van will probably be important in the very near future, but still.

So do you think Patchy is Jacob and the Mayor of Othersville or is the animal farm actually another group of others?

[alex's slingshot]

oh yeah... i hope hurley doesn't waste too much gas driving around in pointless circles, it's not like there's a shell station on the island (that we know about)

[Nash]

after a quick first pass, i found a couple interesting screen caps...

another Hurley Island picture, this time in his mother's house:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilagentesegreto/406433991/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilagentesegreto/406433936/

similar but not the same as the one in Dr Brook's office:
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:2X18-HurleyBrooksMeeting.jpg

the "dirt road" map might also prove useful to those viewers who are cartographically inclined:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilagentesegreto/406434023/

[Nash]

chess game in preview for next episode:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilagentesegreto/406434322/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilagentesegreto/406434357/in/photostream/

[my-2-cents]

MODERATE SPOILER ALERT! If - IF! - you wanna know the spoiler secrets behind all 4 LOST jigsaw puzzles, they've been fully decoded by the folks at lostpedia.com:
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Jigsaw_puzzles
Some of the decoded messages (2/3rds of the way down the page) may confirm speculations shared by many since the end of Season 1; others are filler; one in particular may tell us about a physical feature of the island to watch for related to the Smoke Monster.

[Steve]

Very disappointed by the lack of Scooby Doo and A-Team references.

[my-2-cents]

SOILER ALERT! Right after tonight’s new LOST episode, L.A.’s KABC News @ 11 aired a segment called “Secrets Of LOST” in which George Pennacchio summed up his interview from earlier today with Lindelof & Cuse about things coming up on the show. After rambling a bit about Rodrigo Santoro’s movie career, the following is word-for-word from tonight’s broadcast:

“. . . So, will Rodrigo survive the season? I talked with producers Carleton Cuse & Damon Lindelof today, and they won’t go on record with that. But they will say he definitely still has more to do. Expect a Rodrigo-centric episode at the end of March. They also told me Also actress Marsha Thomason is joining the show as the first character who: (1) wasn’t on the plane, (2) isn’t an Other, and (3) is not appearing in anyone’s flashbacks. Next week, fans will get a number of answers about the Dharma Initiative and its relationship to The Others. Then, three weeks from tonight, fans will learn when the character Locke went into that wheelchair. As for the season finale, producers promise a big surprise – an awesome twist – something they say will be worthy of ‘the rattle-snake in the mailbox’ – in other words, something you wouldn’t expect to see coming. And then there’s that whole Jack-Sawyer-Kate love triangle: it’s going to become a love quadrangle when Juliet, the character played by actress Elizabeth Mitchell, gets in on the loving.”

IMDb has more on Marsha Thomason: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0859720/

[Mark B]

Well having incorrectly called the Stranger episode "filler" I feel I missed the epi by one. Trisha Tanaka is Dead was filler but it was great filler, fun filler, entertaining filler, comic filler. It was a great episode. It was pretty predictable but in a good way. There was no mystery or plot movement really but the episode was all about hope and being positive. Hurleys flashbacks were good, they were done well, may not have added very much except that he didn't start over-eating until his Dad left. Also found out that the girl (Scarla ?) from the CD store did go out with him but she left him for his friend. On island stuff was OK as well, Jin is learning English, maybe Kate and Sawyer have a future, nice set-up for next week with Danielle. Oh and Paulo and Nikki weren't that bad.

I really enjoyed that episode, I'm sure some people didn't.

[Matt Jones]

Episodes like that are why I got into the show in the first place. A very satisfying evening of TV.

[Experiment 626]

I've noticed that many people say "the plot didn't advance" when what they really mean is, "The plot didn't advance as much as I wanted." ;-)

My thinking is, "Enjoy the ride, see the sights along the way, and stop asking 'Are we THERE yet?' every five minutes. When we get there, it's OVER. So if you need to know when and where the end comes to continue watching, just wait for the DVD box set when the series ends. Otherwise, let the producers tell the story. I swear, I'd hate to read some of you a bedtime story!

In other words, to quote The Princess Bride: "Yes, you're very smart. Shut up." ;-)

Question: near the beginning of "Tricia Tanaka is Dead," when Hurley was rattling off the bad luck he'd had since winning the lottery, he talked about someone falling off a roof or something like that, but I couldn't make out exactly what he said. Anyone know?

I suspect the reporter's name was an homage to Family Guy, especially since her full name was always given in dialogue. I guess it would have been TOO obvious and much too silly if she'd been called "Asian reporter Tricia Tanaka."

SSB

[riverfr0zen]

@my-2-cents:
"They also told me Also actress Marsha Thomason is joining the show as the first character who: (1) wasn’t on the plane, (2) isn’t an Other, and (3) is not appearing in anyone’s flashbacks."

Duh - what about Mira Furlan (Danielle)? Unless ... they are suggesting she is ... an Other? ;) Or will appear in a flashback (perhaps her own).

@Experiment 626:
When Hurley was meeting with his financial consultant (season. 1 or 2 flashback, I don't recall), a guy falls down past the office window. That's the closest thing I can think of.