Get Ready: Enter 77

Wow... we got a great episode last night. This weekend we'll be podcasting about season 3 episode 11 of LOST, Enter 77. Send us your thoughts about this Sayid-centric episode by posting them here, sending us an email or leaving an audio comment via our automated voicemail at: 206-666-2278.

Comments

[Jamie (c)]

Great episode, couple of theories / observations

1) Locke (who's a good chess player) knew 77 would blow the facility.

2) The cat is a clone created while doing fertility experiments.

3) Our Lostaways are pretty ballsy, if I was in a building that was wired with C4, I would either get the f out of there right away or deactivate the stuff.

4) The other's have a new name? The Hostiles. (isn't that a punk rock band?)

5) Danielle has increased my suspicions of her. I don’t buy her story about not knowing this facility / people for one minute. I think she was afraid that someone there would bust her.

6) A week of Sawyer and no nicknames is too short!

7) I need to wait for the new thread to start before posting. :)

[Experiment 626]

As for the cat ... at the end of the episode, when Sayid was looking at the cat in the weeds, I said to my wife (in my best Sayid-like voice), "Shoo, smoke monster!" :D

SSB

[Courtney]

Sawyer – Really missing Kate (I like it! Josh does the “meaningful sad look” very well.)
Danielle – She definitely knows a lot more than she’s letting on. My bet is that as soon as she gets to Alex, she abandons our Losties or possibly offers them up as a trade.
Locke – Let’s just say if he met Jack’s friend from a few eps back, he’d end up with gullible tattooed on his forehead. And to think, I was so excited last night when the guns came out a blazin’, I thought that Locke the hunter was back, but alas, I was wrong.
Sayid – Kind of a strange flash back in that I’m not sure we really learned much, but the highlight of the flashback was definitely the cat. I think we’re safe in saying that it’s more than just coincidence that the cat was on the island and its name was Nadia.
As for Patchy… I’m interested in finding out what the dialogue was between him and “Miss Cleo.” I also hope someone got some good screen caps of the paper that he seemed to have been editing.

I think there were a few “big” reveals in this episode:
- Hurley plays ping pong better than Forrest Gump
- There are farm animals on the island (randomly made me think of Animal Farm – if only there had been pigs!)
- The two “others” theory was somewhat confirmed in that the others/hostiles and Dharma seemed to be/have been opposing groups
- There is sonar and satellite access on the island
- They don’t work (probably since the hatch implosion)
- The others do have at least one sub (Galaga?)
- The others travel via horse and underground tunnel 
- Othersville is definitely in the valley
- The incident or the end of Dharma was possibly 11 yrs ago (since that’s how long Patchy has been in the station)

Big questions:
How long have the hostiles/others been there? (Patchy made it seem like forever)
How did Dharma come to know about the hostiles?
If Dharma truly has been defunct for so long, how do you explain the continued supply drops?
If there are such strict rules about killing one of their own, why did Patchy shoot Cleo?

I think now would be a good time to go back and take a second look at two things related to Locke – the blast door map (now that we know more about the stations, cables, tunnels, etc.) and his dream from the sweat lodge earlier this season.

While I’m sure there is plenty that I missed, I’m also sure everyone’s tired of reading by now so I’ll end with just 3 words…
LOST is back!

[Courtney]

I know I just posted, but after reading the posts before mine, I do think it's possible that Locke knew the hatch would self destruct. Maybe he did that to keep the others from ever being able to communicate with the outside world? I do think that Locke is someone who doesn't really want to leave the island, and by destroying all parties chances for communications, he helps himself ensure that he's not rescued and returned to the real world. Just a thought.

[static]

WOW! Such a wow episode!

I was considering how people don't think the flashblacks this season have done anything for our characters, in terms of development or progressing, or giving us a better understanding of them. I think they are wrong. Just because flashbacks may tell us what we already know..obviously doesn't mean they are worthless. It's the other things embedded in the flashbacks and the actual island happenings themselves that mean a lot. Plus, those flashbacks TELL A STORY. And that's the best part. Anyway, for instance, the Jack-centric episode we just recently had.. didn't tell us much we didn't already know about Jack, right? Okay. Well, one- it told us a story. Two- it's obviously an IMPORTANT part of his life, if he's remembering it at THAT particular time. We should know this by now, it has a reason. I mean, they wouldn't show a flashback of someone remembering a time they just.. took a walk in the park, got some ice cream, and read a nice book by the fire. Pretty normal. Every little thing counts so don't take it as a whole that the flashback didn't do anything for us. Cause it did a lot for them and it definately means more than, "Oh, Jack's just dumb and controlling and can mess anything up with women." - I dunno, just a small rant I wanted to get out. :/

Anyway, a few things about THIS episode.

-Did Sayid really remember Amira or was he just saying that to save his life? He DID say he wouldn't admit to something he didn't do, but then Amira told him that story, and he was probably getting desperate at that time..it just didn't add up really clearly to me.

-Could it be possible that, in light of the Hostile's threat to the Dharma Initiave [seeing as they already assumed it to be a possible compromising situation, as seen with Marvin Candle's 'options' after the chess game] created the theatrical glue and dirty clothing items specifically because of that? I mean.. I don't think Dharma were having little get-togethers and putting on plays for eachother. Could it be assumed that, in case of emergency, the Dharma members dressed as Hostiles? [Pardon me for not expanding on that, you can see where I'm going.] And after the Dharma wipeout from the Hostiles [after the Purge] they took over the Barracks, and nearly everything else for that matter, and became a little more civilized? Sounds like a decent theory to me, but I was never one for thinking out theories..

Was a little disappointed that Mikhail turned out to be an Other [or a Hostile, heh] and that the Flame went kablooey. :[ Oh well!

About Danielle.. her statements didn't make me suspicious of her at all. I think she really survived on the island, by avoiding encounters with those people. It would make sense because if she hadn't done so, she may have seen Alex at least once. I still think Alex really is her daughter and she really is NOT an Other. But she probably IS lying about somethinggg..

I think that's all I have to say for now but I'll keep checking back on comments and might have something else to say between now and Sunday. :)

STAY LOST! WOO!

[static]

@Courtney - 'Cleo' [Bea Klugh] was ordering Patchy [Mikhail] to shoot her. If it was an order, of course their people will understand.

[Courtney]

Thanks! Though it does make you wonder where Bea ranked in the chain of command that she was above Mikhail, seemingly their communications guru?

[daviboy]

I have believed for two seasons that there were two groups of "others" on the island and that was somewhat confirmed last night. However it puzzles me that Ms. Klugh was hanging out with Mikhail at this outpost when we know she has a major role with Ben's group of "others".

Have her and Mikhail been secretly forming their own rebel alliance against Ben's group? Was her sacrifice at the hands of Mikhail's gun a way of keeping the dream alive?

Seems like to me that our "Losties" are in the middle of a turf war.

[MsBlugh]

Some troubling things:

Why the whole charade? Why shoot Sayid in the arm and then play dumb? It doesn't add up.

Why the heck didn't they shoot patchy when he raised his gun to shoot Klugh? They couldn't possibly have known who he was going to fire at.

Some very weak links in an otherwise great episode.

[Jamie (c)]

@ Courtney - seeing as how Patchy was a hostile and lieing, how can anything he divulged to Locke be trusted?

I discounted all his dialog once it was clear he was a hostile.

Also, it's appeared (to non Russian speaking viewers) that 'Cleo' ordered Mikhail to kill her then himself. No need to worry about repercussions.

@ Static - I agree, I'm felt that Sayid was just telling her what she wanted to hear. He seemed just as sincere in both disclosures. So we get from that that he's a kick ass liar.

And Danielle may not be an 'Other' but she's definitely a hostile. :)

[Jamie (c)]

@ daviboy - didn't Tom (or someone) mention that commuications were down since the purple sky? My assumption was that Patchy and Cleo were there trying to restore the station.

[Bob]

Since all the leaders have gone off looking for Jack.

Who's in charge of the losties?

Sawyer?

[Courtney]

@ Jamie (c): Once Bea showed up and it was obvious that she and Mikhail were working together I took it that Mikhail was actually an other. My understanding was that when he was divulging all of his information to Sayid and cres, he was still pretending to be Dharma and was refering to what we know as the others as the hostiles (because that's obviously what the Dharma folks called the others if we take Dr. Candle's video message as fact). Then after Mikhail was outted as an other was when all heck broke loose. Maybe I misunderstood, but that's how I took the episode. So just to be clear on my theory "hostiles = others" but as always, this is LOST and things are never as they seem, so I could be wrong!

[Courtney]

I guess one reason that I saw it this was was that it was only after Sayid told Mikhail that the Losties had killed one of the "hostiles/others" that Mikhail gave up the facade.

[Bob from Chicago]

I have a question. If Kate and Sayeed found the C4 charges in the basement so easily then the others would have found them too. So why didn't Mikhail and/or someone else neutralize the bombs so that the station couldn't be blown up?

[Courtney]

"was was" should be "WAY was" oops!

[Courtney]

@Bob: Excellent point. I suppose though that they may have left the bombs in place in case they ever came under attack and needed to destroy the flame rather than allow it to be taken by an enemy.

[Burnt72]

I think entering in the number '77' on the chess game is a 'last ditch' signal to the outside world (or to Widmore?) - to send help to the island.

[Andy]

Has anyone found a translation of the russian conversation yet?

[ebonX]

Compliments of Sobaika (posted in the previous discussion link for "Tricia Tanaka is Dead") ...

http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/03/dialogue-in-russian.html

[Mark B]

Well I liked that a lot, I would say "LOST is back" but I won't cause it will only annoy people but I thought it really had the feel of a S1 episode, lots of discovery and mystery. Lots of things already said but;

1. Locke and the computer : was it all about temptation and having to win ? Did he feel beating that computer would somehow make up for "losing" to the hatch one ?

2. Locke and entering 7 7 : he may have thought it sent some kind of distress signal to the Dharma people who by that stage he knew were not the Others. Perhaps he thought the cavalry would come running.

3. Locke and the explosion : was it me or did he not look THAT surprised or that pissed off. I'm thinking he does not want off the island.

4. To DHARMA the Others are the hostiles and vice versa. It was a war. There is some history in the word "Purge". Stalin did a bit in his time -- basically it was to throw all his political enemies in jail or worse. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

5. Kelvin was the last DHARMA as he was actually doing something that Dharma wanted done. The Others left him alone as he was saving the world one click at a time.

6. Mikhail was there to fix the transmission equipment which broke when the sky went purple, hence all the computer stuff in pieces. Klugh was just checking in on progress.

7. Not sure if anyone from Dharma is still on the island. Could be a little pocket somewhere. Of course we know Ethan was originally Dharma as he recruited Juliet for the island fun so there are some Dharma folks left. How did some Dharma people end up with the hostiles ? Who were the hostiles originally ? The people who lived on the island before Dharma showed up or some internal faction of Dharma who broke away ? Political differences leading to the "purge" same as Mr Stalin ? Or are the Others desendents of the Black Rock ?

8. Not sure why Mikhail shot Klugh either -- there was another way apparently. Seems somewhat excessive to me unless Klugh knew too much to risk being caught.

[Matt Jones]

I apologize in advance. This is too easy, but I can't resist...

Leave it to the French chick to take off when the shooting starts.

Again. I apologize. I now stand ready to face a barrage of idiot Texan jokes.

[Jamie (c)]

@ Matt - nice try but you're ass-u-ming she's French. I still say she's from Kansas.

Until we see a flashback, who knows?

BTW- I may be alone here but I never thought the flashbacks were going on in a character's head in real time. I just thought it was a tool used to give us backstory that (hopefully) is relevant to the character in focus.

[smokem]

Awesome episode...

I agree that Locke knew pressing 77 would blow the hatch, but I think he did it on purpose, he has allready said he likes it on the island, wouldnt be to far-fetched to think he would destroy their only chance to contact the outside world...

The whole Sawyer missing Kate thing is going to annoy the hell out of me... I thougt the love triangle was as bad as it gets, but Sawyer pissing and moaning over Kate is definatley worse, although Sawyer asking who the hell Palo was, was great...

I think Klugh wanted Mikhail to shoot her because she knew Sayeed was a torturer and would break if tortured...

Next week looks like its gonna be another great episode, look forward to the cast

[ebonX]

@Matt Jones - LOL ... 1st the Spoilers and now French jokes ... Absolutely Awesome!!!

[waitingforlost]

One thing no-one has mentioned yet is Hurleys line to Sawyer "I know you need stuff".

We spent so little time on the beach that maybe this has significance.

Was "stuff" refering to Kate or more real stuff ? Does Sawyer need to surround himself with stuff to appear important ? I've not given that much thought at all but it seemed like an odd line -- it could have been an excuse for Hurley to go over to Saywer.

Also with regard to the frationisation of Dharma into the Others and leftover-Dharma could Juliet have been recruited by the Others rather than Dharma ?

[Mindy]

Hey Y'all . . . I'm a long time listener with a first post. I got a friend to translate the Russian from this episode before I saw ebonX's post from Sobaika above. Her translation said basically the same thing.

I also paused the screen and had my friend look at the document near Mikhail's typewriter. From what she could read, she said it seems like either a historical novel or a political report from the time of the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan or later.

A man's name (Andrey) is underlined in red and a note written in the margin that says, "I'm being called, too. --Andrey". The second note written in the margin doesn't quite make sense but seems like it says "----- forgot about Afghanistan".

If Mikhail really was a medic in the Soviet army, this document might relate to that somehow.

[daviboy]

@ Jamie (c)

Good point about Klugh and Mikhail being there to repair the station. The thought didn't even cross my mind.

[Anna]

Yeah, was it ever specified that Juliet was being recruited for Dharma?

[Lorne]

The idea that Locke doesn't want to get off the island doesn't make much sense...
He started by trying to access the sattelite.
He then tried to access the sonar.
For someone who was trying to stay there, those actions don't compute.

[sam]

ok, does any1 know what EXACTLY was said between Patchy and Ms. Klugh?
I know she was probably saying shoot me, but I just wanted to know exactly what was said!

[Lorne]

Also, Picard > Sayid...
There are 4 lights :)
(Ok, not a real 1:1 comparison, but I felt that vibe at the start of the ep)

[josh]

Great episode! I'm definitely going to have to watch it another time or two to take it all in. I believe Kelvin also referred to "Hostiles" back in S2(?) when we saw the episode showing how Desmond got on the Island and was brought into the hatch.

I think Danielle is definitely hiding some information from our losties. She is either an other or is in cahoots with them in an effort to get her daughter back. It doesn't particularly make much sense why she would have let Ben go without interrogating him (or at the very least asking Sayid to find out about Alex). Also, if she was really looking for her daughter I think she would have to expect to have encounters with other people on the island. Or maybe its just sloppy writing... ya never know ;)

[paula]

As per Lostpedia - The Russian dialogue is as follows:

Klugh: Mikhail. Mikhail! You know what to do.
Mikhail: We still have another way [out].
Klugh: We cannot risk. You know the conditions.
Mikhail: There is another way.
Klugh: They captured us. We will not let them get into territory.

Klugh: You know what to do. It is an order.
Mikhail: We still have another way!
Klugh (in English): Just do it, Mikhail.
Mikhail: Forgive me. (shoots)

This brings another dimension to the story:
(a) the chain of command...Klugh over Mikhail.
(b) they would rather die than get caught???
(c) what "other way" did Mikhail have in mind - and will he use it still?

[Courtney]

Thanks for posting the dialog paula!

[Mke Brenner]

does anyone know how many viewers and the ratings for this episode

[I_Love_Sayid...&_Lostcasts]

awsome ep...
some thoughts:

1)Sawyer is going to find a boat and circle around the island just in time to help save Jack... Kate sais, "I knew there was more to you than just porn mags."

2)Classic random humor:
Patchy: Nadia be good.
Sayid: What did you say?
Patchy: I was talking to Nadia, my cat.
Sayid: [astonished] Your cat's name is Nadia?
Patchy: Of course! [points to the random poster of Nadia Comanich on the wall] After Nadia Comanich...the greatest gymnist of all time [canned laughter]

[bryguy]

At the beginning of the episode sayid says "We must stop to eat" and then he goes to pick fruit out of the jungle.
Why didn't they just bring some DHARMA food from the camp with them?

[Rob van den Berg]

Hey Everybody.
Great episode again. Still a big fan. Here are some great promo's..
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1e2of_par-avion-us-promo
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1e2ow_par-avion-promo-cdn

[frankmorris]

Loved Sayids backstory, very 'Death & the Maiden'. An island/backstory hasn't worked as well together since season 1.

Should be an excellent podcast, but could you guys use the words heavy or groovy? Enthralling & alluring are just to square.......man.

[ebonX]

Here are the ratings from last night ...

http://www.zap2it.com/tv/ratings/zap-ratings030807,0,1598089.story?coll=zap-tv-ratings-headlines

[smokem]

@Lorne- Locke chose those options first because those were given first...

Before he enters 77 he has this very conflicted look... now if this was because he didnt know what would happen, then he would have brought Sayid and Kate in on it, but since he didnt it leads me to believe that he knew this would destroy the station and was torn between his friends wanting to get home and he wanting to stay.

[static]

@Bryguy - I was thinking the EXACT same thing! XD.

[Lor]

For Locke - But then he would have skipped talking to the outside, and gone for the ones that gave him more info about the island.

As for the food - Kate's all crazy and running away, and didn't want to either waste time, or have people know she was leaving (getting food would have gotten attention). Sayid and Locke left fast just to catch up.

[smokem]

I didnt see a skip button

[Lorne]

Before the communications options, there were options about info on the other hatches and some other option I can't remember.

[Mark B]

OK here's my thinking ......

1. Mrs Klugh is aligned with Ben
2. Patchy is aligned with Mrs Klugh
3. Therefore Patchy is aligned with Ben (unless Patchy and Klugh are in cahoots against Ben which I think unlikely)
4. Patchy is not true to Dharma
5. So Ben is not true to Dharma
6. Ethan was part of Mittelos which may have been a mainland front for Dharma
7. Ethan was with Ben on the island
8. Therefore Ethan was not Dharma when we saw him on the island -- but was he when he was on the mainland ?
9. Juliet was hired by Ethan to be part of Mittelos
10. Juliet is with Ben so is no longer part of Dharma (if she ever was). She could have been hired by the hostiles.
11. There was infighting in Dharma. Assumes Ethan was part of Dharma and now isn't.
12. There was a "purge". The purge was won by the non-conforming Dharma people (the good guys).
13. The purge could have taken place at anytime in the last three years (post Juliet getting to the island)
14. Everyone we have seen is in the Hostiles (Others) except Kelvin
15. Kelvin was working for Dharma.
16. If the purge had taken place before Des arrived the Others left Kelvin alone as he was serving a purpose. As Kelvin mentioned Hostiles I suspect it did. I think the timeline is such that Juliet has been on the island longer than Des so she could have been hired by Dharma.
17. Juliet can't go home as per promise from Dr Alpert as she's now part of the Hostiles. Dr Alpert is still in Dharma.
18. The people who remained loyal to the original Dharma were "purged" or are in hiding.
19. Juliet is trying to set-up a second "purge" perhaps to return to the true Dharma ways and/or just get the hell out of Dodge.

[Sphere TL]

1) Dharma can't be out of business in the Island. They are dropping supplies.

2) Not along ago, Desmond was in the hatch "working" for Dharma. The plane crashes just when he killed the previous worker. So, 60 days ago or so, there were still people in the Island hired by Dharma and working for them (Kevin)

3) The others do not work for Dharma, although they use their facilities;

4) Some of the others worked for Dharma, like Ethan (. Maybe Mikhail and Klugh, but we're not sure about that.
Mikhail is on the Island for 11years, maybe he came with Dharma in a sub after all, but had defected like Ethan did after a while.

I think that the Others are trying to dupe Dharma into thinking that all is well in the Island. Mikhail use of the uniform is a testament to that. If he wasn't expecting Saying, why would he'd be wearing a Dharma overall? Maybe because he was being watched by someone at Dharma, maybe only low level workman, who was playing chess with him. We can clearly see a camera looking at whoever plays chess.

I also believe that Rousseau was put in the Island as a Spy, at the same time as the losties. She lies about it, of course, but maybe she is the only one that really still works for Dharma, and is on the Island to know what the Others are doing with the losties. She is a monitor. That is why she didn't go to storm the flame station, she did not want to interfere with the experiment. Since the others do not not about her, she cannot interrogate Ben, or interfere much with what happens in the Island, unless when she was testing the losties.

So I think Rousseau is on the same side of the smoke monster, but where the latter only evaluates the losties, Rousseau is more concerned about the Others.

And what is the deal with the others? I think they are into similar paths as the Dharma, only that they maybe want a cleaner way. Dharma is more of an industrial comples, and the Others have the skills and some of Dharma resources to study their things in their own way.

I'm still thinking along those lines, I'm not sure.

[Lorne]

I'm still confused as to which group wants to kill a whole bunch of people using a "vaccine", as described in the Lost Experience.
Is that the Dharma Initiative? Is that the hostiles?
Was that the plan that caused the purge?

[Sphere TL]

@ MarkB, Agree with you about Kelvin, since my theory is that the Others are duping Dharma in to believe that everything is well in the Island. Makes sense to keep Kelvin pressing the button, it is a hard work, and the 108min don't let anyone stray too far, so the Others could afford to not "purge" him. If they did not do it people outside the Island would noticed something wrong.

[I_Love_Sayid...&_Lostcasts]

@ Lorne

that would be the Hanso Foundation... the Dharma Initiative

[riverfr0zen]

If the 'Hostiles' were there long before Dharma, it kind of blows the 'hostile corporate takeover' (Widmore v.s. Hanso, etc.) meaning away, doesn't it?

I don't think Sayid *literally* tortured that *specific* woman - at the beginning, he seems quite adamant about it. I think one of two things, the latter being more likely for me (1) Sayid knew that if he didn't lie, as his captor said, he would die (leave in the bodybag) (2) Towards the end, when Sayid admits to be her torturer, he means it in a much deeper sense - perhaps, one could say, a symbolic sense. By having held post as an interrogator, by collaborating, by being part of the problem, he *did* do this to her. I think that is what Sayid meant, and I think the woman knew this too.

[Jos™]

Locke did not know about the C4 in the basement, Sayid and Kate never had a chance to mention it to him, therefore, there is very little reson for him knowing what possibly could have happened when he entered 77.

[Dave]

Only one group of Others/Hostiles. Ben, Klugh, Makail, Tom, Juliet....everything points to them being together in my mind. Remember who was present on the dock and that Makail was protecting Othersville from Sayid. The Flame station was what Tom referred to when discussing the "comm's" being down since the "sky turned purple". The big question is why was Juliet recruited to join the "Others" by Mettilos Labs and what is the Mettilos involvement? The Lost experience seemed to indicate that Thomas Mittelwerk (sp?)believed DHARMA had failed and this was their last chance to save the world

[Sphere TL]

@Jos Either way, Locke is a very lousy team player. In the first season, Locke would ask Jack to press the button for the first time. Now he goes around playing chess and triggering things at random without caring to share the information to Sayid and Kate? I think he should have said: hey guys, look, we got a choice to make!

If I were Sayid, I would have hit him hard.

[Lorne]

@Sphere:

Yep! He screwed up that grow op as well. He does not play well with others.

[Jamie (c)]

@ Jos, you may be right and we may find out next week but you can't say that for certain at this point because of the way the show is constructed.

We come back to scenes after being away for an undetermined amount of time, we don't know what they've said to one another.

It's REALLY a stretch to believe Sayid and Kate wouldn't tell Locke about the building being wired to explode...but if that's what the writers want us to believe, ok then.

I guess that's what Lost is really about, people who just can't communicate with one another. ;)

[sam]

wow
my brain hurts

[SMKGrl]

I have a thought about Locke Entering 77...

Maybe what Locke was trying to do was redeem himself. He screwed up the last Hatch, and maybe he was just so eager to try to make up for that mistake, that he lost all sense of reason and just entered 77 without talking to Kate and Sayid, or stopping to think.

It's so hard to tell sometimes whether or not the actors are not correctly portraying the directors/writers vision of a scene, or whether we're misjugdging the purpose of the scene, and I think this is one of those scenes. Had it been acted a little tighter, we would know what was going through Locke's head as he was doing what he was doing.

Either way, if it's true that characters won't get killed off until they've learned from there past mistakes, Locke is going to be around for a long time it seems!

[Sphere TL]

@SMKGrl "Either way, if it's true that characters won't get killed off until they've learned from there past mistakes, Locke is going to be around for a long time it seems!"

LOL!

[Courtney]

It was Mittleos that hired Juliet. Do we have any hard connection between them and Dharma? (I'm not remembering one.) Therefore, I would posulate that Mittleos is associated with the others/hostiles and not Dharma.

@ sam: my brain hurts too! But, at the same time, it's kinda nice to get back to the old brain bending discussions!

[Cihan]

As I was watching this episode I was thinking how much torture we're seeing on TV lately, and of course in the news since 9/11, but thankfully Lost shows the complexities of it all rather than go the '24' route.

Also regarding a comment way above: how does this episode prove there are two 'others'? The episode merely renamed the others as 'hostiles'.

Anyway, nice numbered list Mark B, summed things up nicely.

So, now that Locke has entered 77, does this mean we can expect more off-island activity heading our way?

[Cihan]

Oh yeah, we finally know what that cable into the ocean is! Woo! One mystery down, 99 to go!

[Raj]

RANT @ THE FUSEALAGE

hey all,

before i begin...good episode, the writers are begining to hit the heights of the first season. Mystery, questions answered and more questions asked.....all with hurley making us laugh.

first, for all the people that are screaming death to nikki and pablo....give them the benefit of the doubt untill a flashback comes. Yes, it's not the smoothest of introductions, but it feasably works, and they are now on the same footing with the rest of the cast. The list of people that we hated till their flashback is long...Shanon, Jin (till we found out he wanted to run away), Michal (we thought he was a bad dad, till we saw he had no choice in the matter) and so on.

Secondly, i along with a lot of fans had a chuckle with sawyer's line "who are you" to nikki. The writers having a dig at us. But the 4 discussions on that single line were longer then the discussion on the food drop.
People on the fusealage complain about episodes with no mystery. And when a mystery is mentioned they rather talk about an inside joke from sawyer.

Third, following on from point 2. People on the fusealage complain and moan when there is an episode with no mystery, no matter how could the story of the episode was. However, they become hypocrites sometimes.
I use the two episodes from season two: 'The long con' and 'One of them'.

The Long Con - Good backstory, Good story for the island. Zero mystery. Was a good episode, I liked it and since it was a sawyer story, the fusealage loved it.

The episode that followed it was "One of them" - Good backstory, big advancement for the mystery and introduced Ben, a person who is now a fan fave. But wasn't as well recived by the fusealage.

I'm willing to say that the fusalage has sawyer love, where anything with sawyer will make it a higher rated episode.

And following the news stories saying that even though lost's ratings are falling, it's still popular amongst the higher income earning viewers. I hope that this will bring an end to the talks that lost will be getting pulled mid season.

I'm sorry for the long rant, but i feel that the fusealage, along with the promo department are the ONLY things that are bringing down season 3.

i'm looking foreward to your podcast this weekend.

Oh by the way, matt.....as someone from England, kudos on the french sitting on the sidelines comment!!

[Courtney]

@ Cihan:
While I'm not sure which of the above posts you are commenting on for the "two groups of others" theory, my post was trying to get at the thought that this episode somewhat proves the "2 groups" theory in that we could look at Dharma (no longer active on the island) vs. the others/hostiles as two opposing groups. At one point on the official LOST podcast, Damon or Carlton made some sort of non-descript nod in the direction of two groups or factions of others and this could possibly be what he was getting at. I'm not convinced that there are still two opposing groups of "others" on the island now, just that there were in the past.

[MusselsFromBrussels]

About who was stationed at the flame, I think it's pretty obvious from the presence of the farm animals that at least one person must remain there at all times. Not 11 years though, probably shifts. And Sayid's remark about the horse still saddled shows that Miss Klue was probably on an inspection round, or maybe just picking up some ribs to grill back at othersville ;)

[Matthew A. Wilkinson]

Definitely a great episode.

[Joni]

I am convinced more than ever that Danielle is an Other. Either she was booted out or she is manning a watch station.

All the stuff she had in her little hideaway??

Ben, the leader of the Others, wondering around by HIMSELF, and he got captured and no one went looking for him?? I find it highly suspicious.

And something that has bugged me from the start. How did the Others know the baby's name was Alex? or if the Others named her Alex, how did Danielle know?

[Jamie (c)]

BTW - after this episode, we've got a good idea where Juliette got the hamburger from, eh?

And I'm pretty sure that though the cats look similar, they didn't use the same cat for all those scenes. Not that that really matters...

[MINDRIOT]

IS IT JUST ME, or have the writers turned this show into a more clever/dramatic version of Gilligan's Island? Locke of course is Gilligan, as everything he does is with good intentions, but he always seems to screw it all up for the other castaways.

At the end of last night's episode, I imagined Sayid (as the Skipper) hitting Locke with his sailor's cap shouting G-G-Gilligan!!! And then they roll the credits over some campy theme music.

[WhatsUpWithThat?]

Anyone else notice that the ball they were using was a wiffle golf ball, not a ping pong ball.

What's up with that?

[riverfr0zen]

Has anyone deciphered the text (and scrawlings) on the piece of paper Locke picks up in Mikhail's computer room? It seems to be all in Russian, but likely a clue.

[riverfr0zen]

Aha ... nm:

http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/03/russian-letter.html

[biolite]

Fantastic episode!

Finally some mystery meat to chew on.

My 2-cents?
I think Locke knew what was going to happen, he didn't seem suprised. Perhaps Dr. Candle disclosed something after 77 was pushed, but we didn't see it. I got the feeling that Locke didn't seem to care what Sayid thought, he's working in his own world, like S1 Locke.

I think Mikhail was giving an accurate synopsis of the Dharma/Hostile clash and the purge, but he lied about which side he was on. It seems pretty clear that "The Purge" was the incident, and the various posters above are probably right to think Kelvin was the last Dharma member left. The Hostiles probably found out what the Swan hatch was doing and knew that it had to continue to function.

Mrs. Klugh? Probably trying to repair communications. Whatever the swan did when it imploded/exploded it destroyed communication (according to Tom as well).

Danielle? Who knows...she could be a hostile, she could be an other other, we don't know enough to say for certain.

Wow, can't wait for the podcast and next weeks episode.

[biolite]

Oh, I mean to add that we have seen the others brainwashing people (Carl). We know that the people they take don't all end up dead (Cindy + Kids). It's totally possible that Ethan was taken from Dharma and turned into an other. Do we have a timeline on when Juliette went to the island? It seemed that there wasn't much of Dharma left after the purge, the others have definatly made themselves at home in all of the Dharma stations.

It could be that "The Purge" conflict created the anomaly in the Swan station which led to a "truce" between the hostiles and Dharma. If the Swan was as big a threat as it seemed, they would of needed time to contain it and establish the 108min failsafe system. At that point Dharma may of been mothballed with the exception of the Swan station. Dharma may of kept it staffed and functional (ie food drops) in order to "save the world" and the others know it's signifigance left it alone.

Sorry, rambling on.

[lostratings]

Other than the fact that LOST came second can someone explain the numbers to me .... what does 7.6/12 mean ?

At 10 p.m., a "CSI: NY" rerun, 7.8/13, on CBS edged ABC's "Lost," 7.6/12, for the top spot. "Medium" came in at 5.8/10 for NBC.

[waitingforlost]

@whoever asked about why the food drops carried on,
Assume that the Flame station kept asking for them. There was a manual on food drop protocol. I think a certain response in the chess game would lead to a food drop.

@ whoever asked about the Others knowing Alexs real name,
See discussion on previous podcast

[DnG]

This is from "The Programming Insider" [ http://pifeedback.com/eve/ ]:

At 10 p.m., and opposite a repeat of CBS’ CSI: NY, ABC’s Lost took center stage in both total viewers (12.34 million) and adults 18-49 (5.5/14). But, let’s be honest: ratings for Lost are not what they used to be. Second was the CSI: NY second-run (Viewers: 11.64 million; A18-49: 3.5/ 9), followed by NBC’s Medium at 8.78 million viewers and a 3.0/ 8 in the demo.

AWESOME episode by the way!
LOST is back!! (hopefully... ;)

[col_mustard]

We just need more clues!

[Mark B]

@What's Up With That
It's probably de to the wind. Hve you ever tried playing ping-pong outside in even a breath of wind. The ball goes all over the place.

@Courtney
No we don't have a direct link between Dharma and Mittelos. Assumption by me (on my numbered list) is that Ethan worked for Mittelos, who were a mainland front for Dharma, and recruited Juliet. Dharma ran the island when it was fully operational and so would have needed recruits. Ethan (and Juliet) joined Bens faction during the purge. The Others are not really doing anything like what Dharma did and I don't think they have the mainland presence that Dharma do/did to get people to join. I get the feeling Bens Hostiles can't really run the island but are just watching the shop.

@Anyone who's got this far
I don't know much about body decomposition in tropical climates (who does ?) but is it possible that Roger Workman was killed by the "hostiles" or at least crashed during the "purge" and that is why nobody came looking for him ? Probably not as the purge was only 3 years ago if it happened after Juliet arrived.

[Nash]

some interesting screen caps:

Russian typewriter
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/414576922_2db48a1834_o.png

palm trees in Paris?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilagentesegreto/414581369/in/set-72157594577052676/

Sayid's new map to Othersville
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/149/415200070_63c234d140_o.png
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/188/415200261_79d8e3cfdc_o.png

[Nash]

I also heard about this somewhere on the net. The chess game that the computer said Locke won wasn't actually over yet. The computer could have protected its king (temporarily at least) by moving its bishop or knight. Not sure what the significance of that is, but I think it's far to egregious an error to be overlooked by the writers.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilagentesegreto/414592035/in/set-72157594577052676/

[frankmorris]

@ Nash
Good catch. That isn’t checkmate, but it is next move by queen taking either the bishop or knight (depending who blocks). Did white resign? Seems to support the speculation that someone was playing Locke & watching him from that camera.

I just don’t get what the chess game had to do w/ the Dharma command codes.

[Jeffinthe9]

Here's some thoughts...
1. Food drop. Its controled by the computer (chess game) so the others had the food dropped for the Losties a while back.
2. The Dharma folks thought there would be a hostile attack at somepoint on the island, and the flame was the most open location, thus the C4, where the others are secure hatchs. If Dharma knew about the hostiles, so much so to rig up some C4, you'd think they would have more things in place to protect their people, like the fense in next weeks episode. Are the Hostiles really people from the Wildmore group? That would explain the furtility experiments, Juliette, and the others, and the lack of Dharma people. Kinda gives new meaning to a hostile corporate takeover.

[Mike in the Box]

Regarding the chess game:

White's bishop could have defended the rook attack. this would take the king out of check. depending on blacks next attack, the bishop would be taken by either the queen or the rook. the knight could then take the attacking black piece.

a say all that to say, this game was obviously not complete. this is a strange place to admit defeat.

i too am confused as to why there was the pretense of a chess game in order to send or receive messages. seem a little odd

[frankmorris]

My bad, it's over in 2 moves. Black sacrifices rook, then checkmates w/ queen.

[SquirrelPhister]

So, remember way back in first season, I think it was Sawyer's first flashback episode, when Hurley said to Walt, "Back home, I'm known as something of a warrior myself"? I think we finally know what he was talking about. He was a Ping Pong Warrior!

I'll bet we'll get a flashback next season where we see Hurley having to take on some smarmy rich kid in a ping pong tournament to stop his dad from closing down the local rec center. We'll get the scene where he wanders into town, has a run-in with the rich a-holes, he gets challenged to a game of ping pong to defend his honor where he'll lose, then we get the long training montage where he gets real good at ping ponging, then he comes back, hands the rich kid his ass (metaphorically), saves the rec center, and get the rich kids girlfriend! It practically writes itself!

[Cihan]

Raj: I kind of agree with your Fuselage rant. No offense to the billion people who post there but that place really rubs me the wrong way most of the time.

Courtney: thanks for clearing your post up, whenever I see 'others theory' I just think of John Keehler adamantly insisting that there are other others. Factions within the others I can accept, but so far we've only seen the presence of 3 active groups of people on the island: Losties, Frenchy, others (who as Mark B is excellently pointing out may comprise mostly of Mittlelos employees).

Question: Did Sayid take the Dharma operations manual? I'd love to see the contents of that folder. We also saw a food drop manual, I think its safe to assume its an automated thing and wasnt planned for the Losties specifically. The more important question is how the plane that supplies the drop finds the island in the first place.

There seems to be alot of debate about Locke's intentions during this episode which I never felt conflicted about while watching it. It seemed pretty clear cut, he's playing chess like an idiot, then attempts to do the rational thing by trying to obtain mainland access, and when that doesnt work he enter's 77 to say 'yes, hostiles have attacked'. Then he's lucky enough to not be blown up by the c4. I did sigh when he left his guarding duties to play chess though, but we know Locke is an impatient and impulsive person on the island so I guess it was in character...

[Tahir]

Re:The Chess game.

As mentioned above that is definately NOT checkmate.
(It said Checkmate on the screen).

Patchys comments 'it cheats' is very odd.
So, was Locke playing against someone else on the Island and not the computer.And this, someone else, prematuraly let him win to access the Dharma stuff.

On the other hand.....
If all the Chess scenes are purely production errors then that is extremely poor.They must know, 3 seasons in, that scenes like this are screencapped.

[jur]

At the end of the episode when Sayid is looking for Danielle and shouts her name, the camera shows Mikhail's face and to me it looked like he knew that name. If so, is Danielle an other or Dharma or both (a Dhother) ???

[Deviant]

And the headline reads: Patchy Saves Lost.

Desmond's episode gave me hope, this one finally got Lost back to where I want it to be, in terms of both storytelling style and quality. This episode, along with the previews and episode summaries for the next few episodes, officially has me back on the Lost bandwagon.

Thank you Patchy.

[Vaibhav]

Awesome!

I mean.. AWESOME!

will surely comment in detail later!

[riverfr0zen]

Well, what if the Candle sequence was just an extension of the chess 'game'? Hence, the AI 'cheats', letting John think he's won the game, and then tests him with the number-entering sequence. The chess game is probably just a security interface - there is probably an ordained sequence to access the system. All of this may be in the protocol books that John blew up - e.g. 'never enter 77'. An intruder would likely not know this rule, thus leading him/her to blow the compromised station up.

Kind of ties in well with what I thought was the best line in the show - "Why are we still playing this little game ... when we all know it has moved to the next stage!" - said in that awesome Russian accent.

[MsBlugh]

Remember when Eko decided not to repent and smokey smashed him?...

I wonder if kitty (smokey) let Sayid go because he was sorry about what he had done to that lady and for not killing patchy.

That cat is up to something :)

[Courtney]

May I just take a moment to say - Thank You Everyone!!!
While I never really got down about Lost over the last several episodes, I did get down when I would read all the posts of dislike and despair regarding those episodes and where the show was going. While I would enjoy Lost without reading the posts or listening to the podcast - I enjoy it twice as much by doing those things, and that is mainly because of the quality of posts and info that you all provide. So, thank you to all you posters (and the podcasters) who continually make an already great thing even better!
Stay Lost!

[Cihan]

These days, I'm beginning to think the others have indeed lived on the island for centuries. I imagine that Dharma arrived, recruiting the indigenous people to help in experiments and stuff (perhaps sending some off-island to recruite around the world like Ethan), and then an Age of Discovery-type clash of cultures inevitably resulted in Dharma going down.

If so, I see more post-9/11 allegories and themes flying around, in a manner now traditional to Lost, what with the effects of imperialism in effect and all.

Note: If Dharma invaded my land and tried to mess me up, I'd also say "We're the good guys" to Michael while he looks at me in a crazed fashion.

Addendum: A whole bunch of what-ifs, but hey, this is Lost.

[Inta]

Most likely flying in the face of popular opinion here but I am not necessarily sure that Locke was to blame for blowing up the Flame...

1. The explosives seemed a bit crudely placed and wired to be some self destruct mechanism. Surely if the intention was to blow up the hatch following the 77 command then the placing of the explosives would have been done with a bit more care and attention that just slapping the explosives on the wall with wires dangling out of them! Such a failsafe mechanism would hardly fill me with confidence knowing the criticality of the purpose its designed for.

2. Isnt it possible that Mikhail or Klugh could have triggered the timer? We did after all find Klugh downstairs in the basement where all the explosives were. Maybe she set the timer when she knew the Losties had discovered them or perhaps Mikail somehow set it during/after his struggle with Sayid.

3. Locke didnt seem to have known what he had done, had the 77 command been a detonation command it then wouldnt it have given him some kind of indication that self destruct mode was imminent - you would have heard him screaming for miles!

4. Many people have stated that it seemed rather elaborate to rig up the chess game to control all these actions such as the food drop and sonar. Surely if an attack was being made on the Flame then its highly likely the computer might get hit by a stray bullet or destroyed in a struggle. Look how well protected the failsafe key was, this security was hardly afforded to the chess computer was it? point back to the fact that it seemed to be a much more hastily wired up protection mechanism which was rigged up after the losties crash rather than installed professionally by Dharma.

[Cihan]

Courtney: I also cant imagine what it would be like experiencing Lost without the podcasts. Its a perfect marriage of two mediums that benefits both consumer and creator.

MsBlugh: Good thoughts about Smokey/cat. If Smokey is these various animals and such, then it makes re-watching the whole series more fun.

[Cihan]

I still find Mikhail shooting Klugh really extreme, I dont think we've seen this kind of behaviour from the others before in Lost, right? I mean I know they dont want to help the enemy but still, my initial reaction was, and still is: WTF.

[Jamie (c)]

Again, I have to wonder why they didn't disarm the C4 when they saw it rigged to blow, then taken some along to help free Jack from the hostiles. It’s stuff like that that always bugs me in stories.

Even so, most death fearing people would have vacated the place immediately, while warning friends (or even Locke). If I was in Sayid's shoes I would have immediately thought it was a trap, GTFOOT!

As for the Chess game being an overly elaborate means to send for help (or services) - consider entering numbers every 108 minutes as a mechanism for saving the world. It felt consistent with the Lost mythology, I liked it.

And I don’t recall it ever saying Checkmate, just “you win’ – a response a human opponent would make when conceding the game before Checkmate is reached. And that goes to support the camera being a feed to someone watching.

It seems likely that there was someone on the other side of the camera who set off the C4, waiting for the occupants to be at a safe distance. BTW and FWIW, to me that camera looked newer than the other gear there.

I now postulate that Locke’s actions DIDN’T directly set off the explosion – it was a sore looser on the other side of that camera.