Get Ready: Par Avion

Quite an ending for this latest episode of LOST, season 3 episode 12, Par Avion. Have thoughts about this Claire-centric episode? Get us your thoughts for the upcoming podcast by posting them here, sending us an email or leaving a message on our automated audio comment voicemail by calling 206-666-2278.

Comments

[I_Love_Sayid...&_Lostcasts]

wow...am I 1st... yay!

Namaste!!!

[Courtney]

Only have time for a few things:
1)When Mikhail was talking to the losties about how he didn’t know them – when he got cut off talking to Locke, he was going to say Locke was “paralyzed” (could this be why Locke killed Patchy?)
2)I also think that Mikhail was talking about the mythical Jacob, when he was talking about the “great man”
3)Confirmation that Claire is Jack’s half-sister
4)The barracks = Othersville
5)The “security fence” = Awesome
6)Locke knew about the C4, which serves to confirm that he knew what would happen when he pushed 77
7)Sayid is on to Locke
8)I appreciated the commentary between Locke and the other losties about “if you’d told me…” (At least they acknowledged they don’t talk sometimes!)
9)Kate is really pi**ed at Jack
10)I also like that Kate questioned Danielle, but I don’t buy Frenchy’s line of reasoning about not wanting any info on her daughter – if she doesn’t want to know about her, then why is she looking for her???? This too feeds into my belief that Danielle isn’t on the up and up with our losties, and that she is hiding some serious secrets!!!
11)The Claire back story and Claire/Charlie storyline was heartwarming
12)How are the Kate, Sayid, and Locke planning to get back over the security fence?
13) Locke is a man on a mission with a vendetta against someone in particular
14) I LOVE LOST!!!!!!!
Can’t wait to hear everyone’s speculation!!!!

[jg]

@ Nash.
Thanks for the screencaps.

@ anyone analyzing technical things on this show,
Stop.
Perhaps I’m the only one that looks at things on this show to find some semblance of technical reality. That means I’m deluding myself. Time and again I’m let down. The most recent technical improbability can be found on Nash’s map screencap. The apparent Security Pylon perimeter is no more that 7 house lengths away from the nearest building. The scene with the discovery of the security perimeter would suggest they were on a large plain, far from any abode. Furthermore, wouldn’t the loud noise have attracted some Others to the disturbance if the fence was that close? By the way, all the medical situations are technically absurd. The starting of the van was also absurd.

I herby forswear any further technical analysis. Is anyone with me?

I still love the show.

Cheers
jg

[Deviant]

- Emily de Ravin is ****ing GORGEOUS with black hair and the make up.

- As an Australian myself, it was good to see and hear genuine Australian actors. Any time any American tries to put on the accent, it just sounds way off and almost insulting. There is something about attempting our accent that just murders any and all subtlety in the person's delivery. Good attention to detail on stuff like the cop's uniform too.

- Emily de Ravin runs like such a girl. Hopefully there won't be any intense jungle chase sequences for her any time soon.

- Is anyone else sick of Christian Shepherd? Jack, Ana-Lucia, Sawyer and now Claire. If he wasn't dead, I'd suggest that he may be Jacob. Even though I really don't want to see him again, I almost want him to be directly connected to Dharma (or whoever) simply to justify how connected he is to so many people. It's well beyond the chances of coincidence at this point.

- So Jack and Claire are half-siblings. How could this ever matter on the island? Will the Others stumble across this in a DNA test? Do characters like Ben already know it?

- Preview for next week showed season 1 Locke clips. Do you think we'll get a couple of on-island flashback clips as well as the ones showing how he got in the chair? I especially took notice of the preview showing the infamous shot of Locke looking up at the monster. Do you think we will see the "white light" version of Smokey next week? If so, freakin' awesome.

- I think on-island flashbacks are the future of the show. Some back stories are already pretty well told, and I would really like to see more flashbacks to on-island events, as the Nikki/Paulo episode promises to deliver.

- Seriously, Emily de Ravin with black hair... *goes off into dream world*

I am incapable of making short posts.

[Radzinsky]

Wow. Wow. Wow.

@ Courtney -- I love this show too. SUCH a good scene with Jack tossing around the football. Would have liked it if he spied the other Losties in the trees and the episode ended that way, but I'll take him spiking the ball.

A few of my observations from last night:

(1) Rousseau ain't so simple.
There's definitely more going on with Rosseau than just her being "shipwrecked" and surviving on the Island for 16 years. I think she knows all about the Hostiles/Others and that she herself may be the last surviving member of Dharma. Her radio distress call might be the last act of the "Purge" -- after Dharma lost the conflict. I've got more to say on this one if people want to chat about it.

(2) Locke = Keyser Soze?
Anyone think there's a lot more going on with John Locke than we know about already? Knocking out Sayid, letting Boone die, opening the hatch over Hurley's objection, finding the Pearl, blowing up the Flame, and now killing Bakunin? All of these were intentional actions, and all could be part of a pattern of managing events on the entire Island. Is Locke FBI? CIA? Dharma? NSA? Freemason? Illuminati? Get my point? Is it so far-fetched to see some massive reveal, some backstory sequence, where every action Locke has taken all fits into some grand scheme where he's more than just a plane crash survivor, but a major behind the scenes player?

[alex's slingshot]

@ Radzinsky

There's definitely something up with Locke... if there isn't then the writers certainly did a number with the consistency of his character development. The intentionally made him kind of creepy/ kind of heroic in season one, and I remember back then people I know I didn't feel satisfied with the reason he clobbered Sayid. We were kind of on the fence about him (is he up to no good? or is he just naturally strange?) I understand his desire to stay on the island, but you're stranded on a freaky deserted island with complete strangers and no continuous food/water source or significant healthcare (this is all pre-hatch) and you are going to start attacking someone who's just trying to help? Really Locke? How selfish.

And then of course, S2 Locke was such a dope nobody really took him as seriously sinister as he could be taken now. Especially his storyline with Ben where he clearly did not have the upper hand. But it seems this season the layers of Locke's intentions are being blurred again and it's got to be intentional and not just "ooh locke is crazy about the island." There is something so much more sinister in the way he's been acting. Killing someone who has possible answers to the island mystery that Locke is supposedly obsessed with is not particularly smart. And he did it so non-chalantly. And seemingly just because his past in a wheelchair might be revealed. I mean that just seems so... ugh. I know he doesn't want to come across as weak, but the Losties have gotten to know him almost three months as an able bodied person, so I don't see what the big deal is. It might even get more Losties to be more into the insland mystery and side with Locke's desire to figure it out. On killing Mikhail alone I see there is something deeper ramification to whatever patchy was going to say to warrant Locke's murdering him. Maybe that he is connected to Dharma since patchy obviously knew Locke pre-island...? Maybe Locke made an agreement with patchy in the flame station and are now allies which is why he granted him his wish of death?

It just seems to me that in the situation the Losties are in, it would make sense for Locke to act a little more like a team player and since he insists on being so cavalier in doing his own thing he clearly has his own secretive interests... ( i don't know if it's dharma, maybe something even more complicated...)

man i cannot make short posts either.

[I_Love_Sayid...&_Lostcasts]

My take on what's going on with Locke is that

1)He doesn't want off the island, for obvious reasons and therefore would rather not have contact with the outside world. He cannot be so stupid as to not know 77 was a self destruct last resort option... the swan had one, right...and Lock knew that.

2)The Island is his god and he aquiesque to it's every will. If the Island says go North 305' then that's what he must do. If something or someone gets in his way and prohibits him from carrying out his orders then he does what he must. He's a man obsessed. I would bet he believed he was brought to the flame to blow it up and kill Mikhail to ensure the island and its powers are never found - and since John's invested in it's powers, he's all for it.

[biolite]

@ Radzinksy -- HA HA, I knew the Illuminati was behind it all!

Seriously though, what's up with Locke? Was he a former Dharma recruit (because he is totally the type to get suckered into Dharma). I REALLY wonder if Locke found out something we don't know about yet when he was in the Flame station. That's really the point where Locke started acting funny....for Locke.

It makes sense that he might not want to leave the island and is activly trying to remove means of leaving. But why?

A simple thought is he's scared of losing his legs again. I mean it MUST be a VERY tough transition from having use of your legs to not having use of them. Perhaps Locke feels that the island is what gives him use of his legs and that is the sole reason he wants to stay. But why ruin it for the rest of the Losties? We know Locke has a history of making bad decisions, maybe Locke thinks it's best if everyone stays on the island.

Danielle: Still kind of fishy. I think the biggest hole in her story is that she hasn't seen anything on the island. Yeah she knew where the Black Rock was, but that's it. It's been said many times before, in 16 years she never came accross the Flame or the giant fence?

Jack: He's playing the others, blending in...but probably enjoying it a bit.

I have to say, after the slow-ass first 6 episodes the 3rd season has really hit it's stride. The way the season's going there's going to be a huge clash with the others. The losties are invading their home turf, theres a fight brewing ;)

[Bryan]

I expected to see some better moved from Jack after his wonderful performance in We Are Marshall.

[Bryan]

moved=moves

[I_Love_Sayid...&_Lostcasts]

and one more thing because I can't shut up about the map stuff ;)

if we take the blast door map seriously and follow a 305 baring from the beach near the swan... dun dun da daaa we get the flame station... and the small islands on danielle's map if we overlay her map over the blastdoor map (hydra?) so the island did lead john to the flame and posibly the hydra if they kept going.

ok...i'm done, sorry ;)

[Radzinsky]

@ Alex's Slingshot & I *heart* Sayid

I hear what you guys are saying. At least we seem to be in agreement that there is some force driving Locke right now -- and it has to be more complicated than "I have been a nothing all my life and I finally found purpose on the Island and nothing will interfere with it." That explanation sufficed to explain why he knocked out Sayid originally, maybe some other stuff as well, but not his current actions.

I also don't think we can explain away his actions as "curious" Locke, either. Maybe curious Locke was the one who ignored Hurley and had to get into the Hatch. Maybe curious Locke was the one who asked Mr. Eko if he could open the hatch door to the Pearl. But no way does curious Locke intentionally detonate the Flame station, nor does curious Locke kill Bakunin (who, incidentally, seemed to be giving some straight answers).

Let's also note that this is the same Locke who *wanted* to be pulled down into one of the Cerberus Vents to hang out with our little Island security system. (You guys all know about the map, and how Smokey probably = Cerberus, and the jigsaw puzzle and the Turn of the Screw cipher, I hope?) Maybe curious Locke wants to find out what's down that hole, but that's just a mite bit too curious for me.

I don't really know whether Locke is going to have some Keyser Soze-esque, major reveal. I sort of doubt that he'll eventually be revealed as one of the major architects of everything that's gone on. But every so often, he gets that look in his eye that just tells you that he knows more than you think he knows...

Chalk me up as another one who can't write short posts -- but I like reading all your long posts, so what the heck?

[Nash]

some screen caps...

Sawyer reading Fountainhead:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilagentesegreto/422035429/in/set-72157600001056724/

Sayid's map showing security perimeter and subterranean passage:
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=422026768&size=o&context=set-72157600001056724

Claire's note flipped and almost legible:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilagentesegreto/422074132/in/set-72157600001056724/

The newest Jack-face with the pigskin:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilagentesegreto/422042266/in/set-72157600001056724/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilagentesegreto/422042883/in/set-72157600001056724/

[I_Love_Sayid...&_Lostcasts]

@Radzinsky

Can you cue me in on the jigsaw puzzle and the Turn of the Screw cipher. My appartment was way too small for a jigsaw puzzle project so I never bought them. I'm super interrested 'cause I love the Turn of the Screw and have been trying to figure out the meaning behind it's hiding the orientation video.

[Tahir]

Totally loving Lost at the mo but I cant make sense of anything.

Whats up with Locke ? Whats the big deal about letting the
rest of the Losties know he was paralysed.Why not let on about the c4.

Whats The Others big secret that they lay down their lives with no second thought.(The writers had better come up with something cosmic when we finally are told)

Danielle - what the hell is her real story ? The whole "I've been here 16 years and seen bugger all" does not wash.(Neither does she btw)

It seems, and I may be wrong, that some of our Losties are "special" and The Others want them - what for ?

Why a submarine to bring them to the island ?

There are more questions than answers it seems.Lets hope the show doesn't get cancelled before we find out.

[riverfr0zen]

Well well well. We have a little conversation about Ayn Rand on the cast and the boards, and what do you know - a couple of weeks later, good ol' Sawyer is reading the Fountainhead on the beach.

I was previously of the opinion that there was much in Lost that resonates with Rand's novels - but now - with some prodding from the cue, I see a little similarity between Rand's main characters - Henry Roark, and later, John Galt - and this 'great man' that the Others keep talking about.

Perhaps we will find this 'great man' to be modeled after these two characters and express some of their traits: Utter selfishness, no guilt, refusal to compromise to lower standards ... etc, etc.

[I_Love_Sayid...&_Lostcasts]

clue me in i mean ;)

[riverfr0zen]

"I was previously of the opinion that there was much in Lost"

was = wasn't

[jg]

@ Radz,
Love the Locke discussion. Oddly, Bakunin referred to a memory of John Locke. Thoughts?

@anybody
Are we sure Jack's name is really Jack? Thoughts on how his name may be Joseph, Joshua, John,...
Cheers
jg

[Tahir]

Just looked at Nashs' Jack screen cap - is that a new tattoo on his left arm ? or an injury ? or a brand ?

[Nash]

@ILS&L,

Here's a ton of info about the jigsaw puzzles (contains spoilers):
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Jigsaw

[Nash]

@Tahir,

Definitely a tattoo that I only noticed when doing the screen caps. Do we know if Matthew Fox has that tattoo or is this one just Jack (and therefore even more important)?

[Nash]

And what's going on in this scene from next week's episode?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilagentesegreto/422043176/in/set-72157600001056724/

Did Locke plant the C4 on the submarine to stop the Others from leaving the Island too? Is he possessed by the Island?

[I_Love_Sayid...&_Lostcasts]

thanks Nash

[Radzinsky]

@ I love Sayid

The link right above mine should answer your questions about the jigsaw puzzles, the Turn of the Screw cipher and the additions it makes to the map. Most notable, in my opinion, was the knowledge that the "CV" abbreviations on Radzinsky's (my) map stood for "Cerberus Vent". I think from that we can fairly assume that Smokey lives underground (like Cerberus, the three-headed dog who guards the gates to Hell) and only surfaces through particular openings. It is my opinion that Locke was almost pulled down one of those openings, or vents.

@ jg

I think Bakunin was about to reveal to the Losties that "the last time I heard of John Locke, he was paralyzed," and the "paralyzed" was cut off.

@ Tahir

You want to talk about Rousseau? Let's talk about Rousseau. I agree with you -- the whole "I was shipwrecked here" is hogwash. Even Lindelof and Cuse have said there's more to Rousseau than we know. Did anyone not think that Rousseau had a *reason* for not going anywhere near the Flame Station? I, for one, think Rousseau knew what was in there.

Why do I think this? Because Rousseau used to be Dharma. In fact, she -- not Bakunin -- may be the "last suriving member of the Dharma Initiative." I think the distress call that she sends coincides with the Purge, discussed last week. Try this: the Hostiles fight with Dharma, the Hostiles win and start comandeering every station, all the Dharma resources, but they leave a radio tower alone. Rousseau is desperate -- she goes to the radio tower and sends an SOS... "They're dead, they're all dead, they've killed them all." Makes a little sense, no?

Here's another reason why I think Rousseau is Dharma. Who do we know that's *definitely* Dharma? Kelvin, Radzinsky (me), and... Dr. Marvin Candle (or Marc Wickman), our friend from the orientation videos and the Flame chess game menu. What else do we know about Candle/Wickman? At some point, he lost an arm. In the Pearl Station video, he's got both arms, it's very clear. In the Swan video, and in the chess game menu, his left arm has been amputated.

Who else has talked about someone losing an arm? Rousseau. When Rousseau was walking the Losties to the Black Rock in the S1 finale, as they enter the "Dark Territory," Rousseau comments: "This is where Montagne lost an arm." Then, Artz freaks out and runs away. Could Montagne be Marvin Candle/Marc Wickman? We have the "M" thing going on... and we know that this guy is prone to name changes, so why not? And if Candle/Wickman is definitely Dharma, what does that make Rousseau?

Rousseau's backstory has yet to be revealed, and there's almost certainly a closer connection to Dharma and the Hostiles than has been previously shown.

Another long post... hope you all find it interesting.

[Jonny]

hey this is my first comment but not a bad time b/c this was an awsome episode! i have one thing to say.

1. http://humpys.net/view_pic.php?id=324&season=3

thats a link to a pic of the barracks map. if you look at the top left you can see a compass with north. it looks like the others have a working compass or one that doesnt get interered with like sayids. also on the map the are "subteranean passages". may be thats how the others get in and out of the fence without setting it off.

jonny-

[Mark B]

Mikhail did not know Locke in the outside world. Clearly we are meant to think that Mikhail has read the reports on everyone. This is a reference back to the Juliet/Ben and Jack conversations that showed they knew all about Jack from the dossier they had on him. But since really all Mikhail said was their names it would be a simple thing to get a copy of the manifest that Hurley had, Ethan could have got a copy, and he could also have given the Others descriptions of everyone. The paralysed bit would be tougher to work out unless it said that on the manifest but then Hurley would have seen that too. I suspect the Others may well have dossiers on everyone and this is how the list was put together but now it's a case of who IS on the list. As I said in my post on the previous comments section "Who is on the list ? Not Kate, Jack, Sayid or Locke. Assume Hurley isn't either as Klugh let him go. So who of our main characters is left … Claire, Charlie, Desmond (unlikely), Sawyer (unlikely as he was allowed to escape and was treated badly), Nikki, Paulo, Aaron ? Eko was. Cindy and the kids were". And to continue if the list and the people on the list are so damn important why have the Others not come for the people on it. Unless of course nobody left is on the list and thosde taken (plus Eko) were the only ones on it.

Jacks lower arm tattoo was there in season one. Don't have a screen cap but I re-watched a few wpisodes last weekend and it was there.

[Harley]

@jg
Your thought on Jack's name got me thinking. Jack is short for Jacob...could be be related to "the" Jacob? Could that be why they needed/wanted him? What if he's a sleeper and they're doing things to him to "awaken" the Jacob within? Wouldn't that be a good plan, plant one of your people withing the other group? Just a crazy thought, probably not on the right track at all...but just a thought! :)

[alex's slingshot]

@ radzinsky

i think you're rousseau theory is highly plausible. but if she is the last remaining dharma member (except, i guess for desmond who abandonded his post), why is she being so elusive with the 815 survivors? they clearly aren't hostiles and she seems to trust them enough to actively seek them out on occasion, whereas she's always frightened to get involved with the others (even refusing to interrogate benry herself). so, why wouldn't she tell them she's dharma? it would give the losties a lot more info to go one esp. as they are about to invade Camp Other-town.

Speaking of Desmond previously working for Dharma-- It's obviously possible that what he was doing was something for the hostiles who had already taken over Dharma stations, esp. since Kelvin was trying to steal his boat and didn't care about "the sickness" by having a tear in his hasmat suit. Something that's always bothered me is that if Desmond was not actually working for Dharma, then wouldn't the Others know about him? And even if he were working on some defunct Dharma project, wouldn't the Others still know about him? They have control of communications and it also what goes on in the hatches. If Kelvin was a last remaining Dharma person, why'd they let him stay around? If Kelvin was an Other, what'd he need Desmond for and why do the Others seem to not know about him or not care about him or what he does?

[Bryan from the Dena]

@ jg,

I know we shouldn't be so obsessed with things like map scale and what not but there is one technical problem that bugs me (I don't know if this has been mentioned), and I am curious what everyone else thinks. The incident caused by the Swan imploding set of an EMP (as explained by Mikhail and the evidence that we see no working electronics). My problem is that while all electronics should be fried certain ones are not:

1. The computers and monitors in the Pearl Station (I am willing to let this one go assuming that the bunker could have been shielded since it was in the ground)

2. The computer Locke plays chess on in the Flame Station. Since we don't see Locke turn on the computer we should assume that it was on during the incident. (I have issues also with Locke playing sitting down instead of figuring out why th island led them there)

3. The surveillance camera watching the computer. Same issues with the computer (I am going to throw out the idea that Flame was shielded since besides the computer and the camera, and i guess maybe the meat locker (?) everything else is fried)

4. The Security fence around the Barracks/Othersville. Obviously we know nothing about the construction of these but it seems strange that they would have been built to be protected from an EMP, also since it seems like the fence was built to keep animals out and just happen to work for the winning side of the purge.

Anyways, that is my little issue with technical issues.

So lots of people have reasoned that Locke is trying to get revenge on someone, and I agree. Ben essentially made a fool of him by getting him to blow up the Swan station (although i don't think Ben knew it would lead to the EMP, or maybe he did) so now Locke wants revenge, we know he doesn't let things go (like how his dad rejected him and he couldn't just move on but rather sat in front of his house all the time).

More thoughts floating around in my head, hopefully these made some sense.

~Bryan from the Dena

[Tahir]

@ Nash amd Mark B

Just watched 'Stranger' again and yes, that tattoo is there.
Funny....I've never noticed it before.

[Black Eyed Dog]

Wonderful episode...Jack running towards the camera at the end was great...football was unexpected.

But...

Claire's rescue note.

Beautifully written, but how about including some landmarks or other details that MIGHT, just might, help searchers find the island? Seems to me you wouldn't be rhapsodizing about the hope that new life brings when you should be listing things like "huge four-toed statue" and "another island about a mile away."

Weird.

Stay Lost
Black Eyed Dog

[Bob from Chicago]

@Radzinsky

I agree with your Rousseau theory. Perhaps when she was in Dharma she hooked up with Ben and got pregnant. This may have happened because the women of the others cannot get pregnant. So Ben went looking for someone else. Then when Ben's group or Jacob took care of Dharma Ben warned her and she got away and hid. But this was on the condition that she give up the baby when she was born. So Alex is really Ben's daughter and Rousseau is really her Mom. That is my idea.

[Courtney]

So, I was originally against the idea of Rousseau being DHARMA, but you all make some really good points and now I'm thinkin' I might be a believer in this theory!!!

[jg]

@Bryan
I was thinking the exact same thing! But, I’ve moved on now… and I am at peace.

@Harley,
Jack=Jacob,…now that would be a game changer.

@Radz,
Rousseau=”The Last DHARMA”. A paranoid liar with experience with the Others. I’m sold.

Also, did you say Locke is Possessed by the island. Yeah..I bet he is. Or is there some rendition of Locke that IS the smoke monster?

Cheers
jg

[I_Love_Sayid...&_Lostcasts]

good call on the arm Radzinsky... you're on top of things aren't you?

@Jonny

So do the Losties. Their compas works...it's just that it was off due to the magnetic anamaly. You can figure out where North is without a working compas. Sayid new where North should've been in season. That's how he knew the compas was off. Anyway, once you do this you can set the angle of declanation on your compas to adjust for the difference and then you can use the compas. You would have to do that anyway, even if you didn't have as gross of a magnatic anomoly as you do on the island. Usurally, though, you know beforehand what your degree of declanation is so you can set your compas. It would be nice for a map with a declanation diagram to show up on the show. If that happened we could look it up on the Isogonic charts and find out where the island is ;)

[Radzinsky]

A little more on Rousseau as the last Dharma...

If she was indeed Dharma, and the SOS from the season premiere coincides with the Purge, we can put a bit of a timeline together...

Losties Crash: Sept. 22, 2004
That's my birthday, believe it or not...

Rousseau's SOS: 16 years earlier, approximately 1988
Was that when the purge went down? Did Rousseau make her distress call *during* the Purge, and have the Hostiles/Others dominated the Island since then? I don't know, 16 years seems like a little too long ago for the Purge to have happened...

Swan Orientation Video: 1980
We assume that this is pre-Purge, when Dharma was functioning as it was supposed to, but after the "incident" that is referenced in the video that caused the EM buildup in the Swan.

Anyone else have thoughts on when the Purge happened and how it affects the current Island residents?

RANDOM THOUGHT: a lot of people on the show have said that pushing the button = saving the world. Well, now that the button wasn't pushed, we know that all electronics and all contact with the outside world from the Island has been severed. Are we really sure the outside world still exists now that the sky turned purple? Is there a chance that NOT pushing the button somehow doomed the rest of the world, and -- just as there is a small circle at the center of a nuclear blast that is unaffected (there is, trust me) -- the Island was safe in the middle of the world-ending EM blast, but the rest of the world is gone?

-Radzinsky

[Britigger]

I have wondered about the possibility that Jack could be Jacob before he knows he's Jacob. Perhaps he takes the name Jacob later similar to the way Biblical individuals were often given different names when they were brought into the fold of God so to speak. (Abram becomes Abraham, Jacob became Israel, Simon became Peter)
I also asked myself how someone like Jack and not even on Jacob's list could become one of them...because he is Jacob, they just don't know it yet and so it's really his list.
Time plays a role in my theory because I also think perhaps Adam and Eve in the cave were Jack/Jacob and Juliet. Some how they get sent back in time and make this list which they present somehow to the others to influence the others to get certain people from the crash when it happens (which they know about because they have been through it in their past/future.) They do it in the name of Jacob and in such a way as to make the others believe thay are gods and hence their reverence for this Jacob. They probably even do it sight unseen....ie the appearance of some "divinely" produced tablets with the list on it perhaps! Then they somehow end up hiding out in the cave and die there in each others arms to be found later by JAck and the other losties when they crash on the island in the primarytime line. Little do the others know the Jacob they are holding up as a god figure is really the Jack they will/have just captured, sent into their past from their future. Jack/Jacob is doing this in an attempt to change something in the timeline and save them all!
The time thing makes this very hard to put on paper but that's my crazy theory and I'm sticking to it!

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

First, is their anyway to add a spell check or an edit feature to this comment section? It seems like we all have typo/spelling issues these days. :)

Second, maybe Danielle was her cover like Ben had the Henry Gale cover - only she went all Long Kiss Goodnight and bought her own cover as truth. They don't go after her because she keeps to herself because deep down she just knows to stay away. Maybe she raised Alex when she was taken from the real Danielle until something happened and she was thrown out. We don't know if Alex knows who she is or not. Just because Alex has made no mention of a mother doesn't mean she doesn't know about her.

Third, won't that be a fun moment when they find Jack's dad's body and Claire and Jack realize their related. That is pretty much the only way they will ever figure it out since she doesn't know his name.

[ebonX]

WOW!!! Now LOST is starting to build-up ...

@jg et al - Great observation of the Heart of Darkness and Fountainhead themes ... perception of good/bad --> Others/Losties --> definitely an allegory for a post-9/11 world (especially in the US).

Also, it would not surprise me if Jack ended up being a nickname, and his real name is John (... think JFK).

@Mike in the Box - Great minds think like!!! I totally thought "Luke & Leia" during the episode ... It probably also helps that ROTJ is in heavy rotation on HBO right now too.

Mikhail - He made an interesting comment about why K/S/L were not on the list ... They are all flawed! This made me think back to my Freshman Philosophy class in college and remembering the different ideas between Plato & John Locke ... Plato believed man was inherently good and that we "learn" to be evil ... On the other hand, Locke's belief was that man is born as a "blank slate" (knowing neither good nor evil) --> If you equate the Others to Plato (Greek connection, ancient civilization, etc.) and the Losties to Locke (Western/Modern thinking), then one has an explaination as to why they only take children and specific "good" people ... A "flawed" person is someone who has "learned" to be evil. Therefore, the Others take children (since they have yet to "learn evil") or "Good" adults ... Sorry, kind of tangential to the main Locke discussion, but I just thought it was a valid explaination of the List.

Locke - I think that Locke's character in S3 has come to represent religious zealotry ... As he is following the word of his god, the island.

@Deviant - I actually think Christian Shephard is a very important catalyst ... So far, one could say he had a direct effect for getting Jack, Claire, Sawyer, Ana-Lucia, Boone, & Shannon to the island ... If the theory holds true that the Losties were "brought" to the island, then I think it will be revealed that Christian is a major reason for getting them to the island. If not, then it is a great discussion point of free will vs. destiny.

[phelixshu]

some thoughts:

I wonder if Rousseau isn't a defunct DHARMA person, instead, she's a defunct Other. My theory is this: during the "purge" Rousseau found herself disagreeing philosophically with what the Others were doing. And while she wasn't a DHARMA member, she didn't want to see the DHARMA people destroyd--i imagine the purge to be violent, i don't know why. In the end, i think she went into hiding, and since she knows so much about the others, she know how to avoid the others. This also would explain why she knows so much about DHARMA, without really knowing anything about DHARMA. I wonder, too, if she'd already had her baby and made the decision to leave her behind. She new the others ultimately wouldn't hurt her daughter, and this would also explain why the others and Rousseau use the same name for her daughter. I don't know, just a thought. The more i watch Lost, the more i think she's an Other, yet, i don't think she's an Other. Just some food for thought...

[Nash]

So I've been thinking about this whole Jack tossing the ball around with Tom thing. There are a couple of possible explanations:

1. It's not really Jack, it's a clone or twin. TPTB have said that this is not the case. 'nuff said.

2. It's not really happening, it's actually a holographic projection of some kind. Perhaps it's the worst thing Kate could think of seeing and somehow that brings it into reality (ala Crichton's Sphere). Seems a little too advanced for 1970's Dharma technology and I don't think the writers would go that far.

3. It is Jack, he has seen the error of his ways and is now a proud card-carrying member of the Others. Seems possible (if we ever find out what makes them 'the good guys') but WAY too sudden. Could there have been some temporal distortion allowing Kate et al to see the future or go into it the way Desmondo does? Also possible, but seems a bit of a stretch given that they weren't the ones who turned the key.

4. It is Jack, but he's drugged, ala Claire giving up her baby to Ethan and not wanting to leave the medical hatch when Alex was trying to save her. This seems like the most likely explanation to me. Whatever they gave Claire sure had her on Cloud 9 and I don't see any other explanation for Jack acting that goofy. Even when everyone was happy on the beach, Hurley had to practically club Jack to get him to play golf, which is much more respectable/in-character than spiking the pigskin like an idiot.

Still makes me laugh:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilagentesegreto/422042266/in/set-72157600001056724/

[ebonX]

@Radzinsky - Your "Random Thought" got me thinking ... What if the "Incident" was a mini-form of what happens when the "Sky turned Purple" ... i.e. DHARMA discovered that the "Incident" made everyone on the island sterile and thus, if the button is not pushed, it would cause an "Incident" worldwide --> The entire world is sterile now (ala Children of Men novel/movie). I was thinking about this because I just found out that Brian Vaughn (Y: The Last Man) is now a LOST writer.

@Bryan - Technical explainations for the Pearl & Flame ... The Pearl was shielded from the EMP (It was an underground sylo) ... The Flame station electronics were fixed (at least the Computer and the Camera, as those were the only electrical devices that we saw working) by Mikhail in the 2 weeks, since the "Sky turned Purple". I am deducing that b/c we saw all those various electronics parts strewn across the Flame station.

[Courtney]

I think we shouldn't over look the possibility that its just Jack, in a bit of a shell-shocked mode. We saw him leaving alcatraz under the agreement that he would stay until Ben was back to good health. Juliette's alive, Kate and Sawyer got away, and right now, everything's pretty peachy for Jack. I could see him being so excited/relieved/stunned by seeing houses, yards, bikes, and footballs, that he was able to stop sulking for 5 minutes to play a bit of toss. He knows that he doesn't have a chance of escape at this point (not that I'm sure he really wants one if he really believes in his agreement with Ben) and he knows he's gonna be around for a while waiting on Ben to heal, so I don't think it's too far-fetched to think that he could let his guard down long enough for some football. On the other hand, Jack could have a master plan of finding out more about the others in hopes of using it against them at a later date in order to help his losties. If this is the case, he would want them to believe that he has become one of them and playing football with Tom would be a great step in that direction.

Alas, I too can't seem to keep my posts short - and I know I have some serious typo and spelling issues!!!
=)

[Nash]

@Britigger,

Cool theory, but why wouldn't Jacob/Jack put Jack on the list (remember Danny muttered that "Shephard wasn't even on Jacob's list") to ensure that he isn't killed by the Others before he gets a chance to become Jacob and go back in time to become Adam? Seems a little to BSG: "All of This Has Happened Before, and All of It Will Happen Again" for my liking.

[joop]

How to catch a sea gull: http://www.jibjab.com/jokebox/jokebox/jibjab/id/551132/jokeid/124527

[biolite]

@ Britigger

I love that idea! Jack picked up the weird black & white rocks at the begining of the series then at the end he has them when he dies in the cave back in the past. He sees how events played out in the present and makes the list....for some reason ;)

So many questions, but hard to come up with a good answer until we know what the others' endgame is.

Biolite

[Mke Brenner]

First off, for all those doubters about Lost and its "slump" and ratings drop, you should notice that Lost is still a top 20 show according to Nielson.
http://www.tv.com/story/9079.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=news&tag=headlines;title;4
Now, that episode rocked. The island stuff was great. One of the most tense moments of Lost this season I say was Kate scooting over the pylon.People have to agree that the security fence scene was exciting and very "Lostesque" It seems that the writers are starting to amp up the action and incorporate some of the "grass roots" Lost of season 1. I just hope that all this suspense and tense moments leads to an amazing climax otherwise its a bummer.
As for Jack/Claire's dad, i knew that ever since "Two for the Road" so it wasn't as shocking but still a decent flashback. Claire joins the ranks of the numerous characters who have Daddy issues. I'd be curious to know which characters' flashbacks haven't shown daddy issues. Im sure its not many.
Now to my big point: Locke. I'm becoming convinced that Locke is becoming less stupid and more like his more mysterious self. He seems to have a purpose, other than Jack, to go on the mission. Plus, why does he need the C4? Locke taking the C4 could definitely point to the fact that Locke blew up the flame on purpose...perhaps he knows more than we've seen. Finally, when Mikhail was cut off by Danielle, was he going to reveal something new about Locke or reveal that he was paralyzed? Maybe Locke had a "fleeting memory" of Mikhail that he didn't want revealed so he used Mikhail as the guinea pig for the fence. Great scene by the way...very shocking, edge of the seat thrilling. Also, why did Mikhail say "thank you" when pushed into the fence? Did he want to die nobly or he didn't want to face the Other's? Lastly, i hope next week's payoff as to why Locke was in the wheelchair is interesting and exciting and not a bummer like a car crash or something. That's all i have to say...Stay Lost

[I_Love_Sayid...&_Lostcasts]

Jack knows they're not going to kill him - they want him to stay and be camp doc ;) Jack is their prisoner, he's carefully watched so it's not like he can make a run for it. His plans to get the upper hand work somewhat, he's respected, and he's been promised a ride home. He now believes he has no future with Kate and no reason to stay, plus he thinks he'll be sailing into the sunset with Juliet soon. Juliet has survived thus far as a prisoner of the Others but still a free and functional part of their society (like most of us). Really Jack has 2 choices at this point. Spend all day every day crying in the woods out of dispare or do what Juliet has been doing (before shooting Picket, anyway.) At some point he'll "be sent home" with Juliet, but in the mean time the Others are going to try their hardest to indoctrinate him... and maybe they'll succeed. I think they may have convinced Jack that they're not all bad.

[Nash]

@Kathy aka Fangirl,

Make the switch to Firefox 2.0. It spell checks anything you enter in a dialog box (including LOSTCasts comments) and underlines misspellings in red like Microsoft Word. Awesome feature!

[biolite]

@ Nash

Patchy said that K/L/S were not on the list because they were flawed. Perhaps Jack needs to go through the experience he is going through to overcome his flaws and become Jacob. If the time theory is true, Jack would need to leave himself off the list so that he would go through those experiences and grow/evolve into jacob.

Biolite

[Mke Brenner]

Does anyone notice the motifs with Charlie's "deaths." They all seem to be when Charlie tries to help claire (the lightning, Claire drowning, Claire getting the birds). Maybe the way for charlie to survive is to stay away from claire, despite his feelings for her and aaron. Maybe that is what Desmond is trying to do, he is trying to break them up. But since claire knows about Charlie's "sentence" perhaps that wont happen. A great payoff to Charlie's dilemma is that someone else dies besides charlie. It wouldn't be shocking if charlie died, because we were told, by Desmond, that he would die. It would be more shocking, and exciting, if someone died trying to save Charlie. Hopefully, that storyline will develop and conclude sometime near the end of the season. Hopefully, since i like charlie, doesn't get a flashback...because that spells certain doom for the washed up rockstar. Hey, he still needs to make his comeback!

[Radzinsky]

@ all these "what's going on with Jack theorists"

Here's what you're missing: Jack is the best con man on the Island.

I think you're all forgetting just how subtle Jack is. We had a MAJOR window on to Jack's personality during the poker game with Sawyer. Jack is a great judge of personality -- he had Sawyer pegged in that game. Jack is a great bluffer -- he knows when to drop his hand and when to follow through.

Jack's been playing poker with everyone around him since he got to the Island. Getting the medicine from Sawyer, tricking Sawyer into talking about his STD history when all he needed was glasses, getting the guns back from Sawyer when Libby needed the heroin from Sawyer's stash, wanting to trade Ben for Walt, bringing Kate out to the "line in the jungle" the second time because he knew that the Others didn't want her, pitting Ben against Juliet, getting Ben to admit that those were his X-Rays before he really knew, making the huge gamble of injuring Ben during the surgery to let Kate & Sawyer get away, bargaining for Juliet's life with Ben's future treatment... the list goes on and on. After all the talk of conning and con men, Jack's the only one who's consistently outfoxing everyone else.

Why does all this matter? Jack's playing poker with the Others again. He's committed to getting away from them (maybe with Juliet), perhaps getting revenge on them, and he's just lying low. Jack's got another card up his sleeve, it's only a matter of time before he plays it.

-Radzinsky

[biolite]

Well Charlie is seriously boned when the camp finds out that he attacked Sun.

[Nash]

@Courtney and ILS@L,

I just can't buy that. If anything the writers have cracked over our head time and time again, it is that Jack cannot be happy (with his wife, father, Kate, etc). He is a born leader who "walks among us, but is not one of us." There's no way he just woke up one day and said "I'm proud to be an Other, now let's play some ball."

[Nash]

@Mike Brenner,

I'm down with that. Maybe if they sacrifice Claire to the course-correction Gods then they'll let Charlie survive. I'm tired of her constant yelling/nagging.

[waitingforlost]

Wild theory about why Mikhail thanked Locke.

We've seen a Viking/Norse like religious ceremony for Pickets wife (her name escapes me). So other Viking/Norse mythology may be part of the Other religion. If so my speculation is that Mikhail belived he was going to this great place and death was only a mere gateway to that better place.

This is based on what Wikipedia has to say on Valhalla …
"Valhalla (Old Norse Valhöll, "Hall of the slain") is Odin's hall in Norse mythology, located in Gladsheim and is the home for those slain gloriously in battle (known as Einherjar) who are welcomed by Bragi and escorted to Valhalla by the valkyries".

Further on Wikipedia says
"The valkyries' purpose was to choose the most heroic of those who had died in battle and to carry them off to Valhalla where they became einherjar (spirits of warriors who had died bravely in battle). This was necessary because Odin needed warriors to fight at his side at the preordained battle at the end of the world, Ragnarök"

This does not explain why Mikhail shot Klugh though or why it looked like he was going to shoot himself right after.

Also this makes we wonder why Locke would stop Mikhail from killing himself and then only a matter of hours later chuck him into the sonic boom fence --- unless Locke really thought it was broken.

[phelixshu]

@Radzinsky: Amen brother(re. jack). I was trying to write up something similar to that, but you put it better than i ever could.

[Experiment 626]

I've heard some minor complaints that having Jack and Claire confirmed as half-siblings had no "twist" to it. First, it's confirmation of a twist in and of itself. Second, I'm not a fan of the producers dropping in twists for their own sake. If EVERYTHING is unpredictable, nothing is. And I believe that this relationship will somehow come into play later.

What is the purpose of the sonic fence? It seemed that Mikhail had to stand between the pylons for a couple of seconds before he was killed; if he'd gone through it at a run, would he have been safe? Or was that just for dramatic effect? It doesn't appear to pose a threat to The Monstah -- if the Lostaways can climb over it, then surely Smokey can fly over it. Maybe the fence used to work instantly, but no more.

If Locke's motive is simply not to leave the island, are such drastic measures as he's taken (blowing up The Flame, presuming he really did so -- as well as what he's rumored to do next week) really necessary? Why not simply refuse to leave, should the opportunity ever present itself? Or is it not just that HE doesn't want to leave, but that he thinks NONE of the other people on the island should leave? I think there's got to be more to it than that he doesn't want to leave.

Mikhail's comments in this episode lead me to believe that Locke is not an Other (though he might wish to be) -- he isn't on The List because he's "too angry."

However, I'd support Locke's action in pushing Mikhail past the fence. Mikhail had said the fence didn't work, probably intending to lure one or more of the Lostaways into attempting to cross the perimeter. It seems logical for Locke to test this on Mikhail -- who else should he push? I don't think he wants to kill Sayid, Kate or Rousseau.

Speaking of Danielle -- she's CLEARLY up to something. She's the only on-island character to have been around since the first season who hasn't had a flashback (other than Vincent, and I think he's up to something as well). I firmly believe that we haven't been shown her backstory because it would reveal too much too soon.

How, exactly, did Charlie and Claire secure that note to the seagull in such a way that they reasonably expect it will stay intact and attached until the bird reaches an inhabited land?

Things seem to be moving quickly now. Even more than I otherwise might, I'm looking forward to "The Man From Tallahassee" because I AM a man from Tallahassee!

By the way, the local phone directory lists four Waffle Houses within the Tallahassee city limits, and there's one more just outside the city. Doesn't seem excessive for a city with an estimated metro-area population of over 250,000! ;-)

SSB

[Courtney]

@ Nash - don't misunderstand. I don't think Jack is/has become an other or that he wants to. Just that he knows he only has to put up with them for a little while and then he's rid of them, assuming he really believes Ben will get him off the island. And then there's my other possible theory that matches VERY nicely with Radzinsky's comments about Jack being a great con artist.

@Radzinsky: Very well thought out comment on Jack. I completely agree. That's what I was trying to get at with my "jack having a master plan to get info from the others in order to help the losties idea". Only you worded it much better than I could have. Excellent theory my friend!

[Nash]

am I the only one who thought this scene with Kate climbing the tree trunk w/ two orbs attached beneath was a little amusing?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilagentesegreto/422031595/in/set-72157600001056724/

[Radzinsky]

@ Courtney & phelixshu: Thanks

A few more comments...

(1) I also wondered if just running through the fence would maybe hurt -- like a lot -- but not kill you. Maybe something that the sonic emitters, um, emit... causes muscles to freeze up? Then you're caught in it, you froth at the mouth and blood spurts out your ears?

(2) Is anyone else upset at ABC for revealing SO MUCH of each episode in the commercials now? I had to turn off the "next week on Lost" because it's basically telling you everything. If you knew what to look for, you'd know that this week Claire and Jack are revealed as half-siblings AND that Bakunin was thrown headlong into a weird looking electrical fence, probably to his death, and that the Losties wouldn't get anymore information out of him. That's most of the episode right there. About the only surprise was Jack's tossing the football. Two weeks prior (in the Bai Ling episode), they showed you Cindy! That was about the only reveal in the show! I would have been shocked by it if it wasn't in the freaking commercial!

-Radzinsky

[Courtney]

@ Nash - when I watch the episode with Kate climbing over the fence, I was so in suspense that I didn't even notice, but now that you mention it, with the attached screencap - that's kinda funny!!!! =p

[Nash]

@Radzinsky and Courtney,

I think you're definitely on to something. He's definitely playing the Others like a fiddle. Maybe we'll see yet another role reversal between Ben and him.

[Britigger]

@ Biolite exactly.

@Nash didn't need to because he already knows he doen't die, he's Jacob! and maybe he's tried a few things and they haven't worked.

I think "Daybreak" was a subtle clue hiding in plain sight.

I think Desmond is not having flashes of the future but rather is experiencing memories as he did in his loop we saw in "Flashes" .....meaning he loops again at some point!

[riverfr0zen]

LOL @nash: those orbs are amazing! kate's da man, man.

[Britigger]

@ Nash and Biolite

I like Biolite's take....he knows he's not killed in the primary timeline AND knows he needs to experience some of what he does in order to become Jacob in the first place!

[OaktownFunk]

@nash - that is some really funny stuff!
Kate really showing off her assets in that reverse cowgirl tree trunk straddle (sounds bad but I love me some Kate)

[Cameron]

Is that security fence supposed to keep people out, or keep people in?

[jg]

@Nash.
I would submit also that “I Love Sayid..” points out that Jack is now a Juliet-esque prisoner and enjoying some autonomy. But, always the opportunist and con man. (Radz & Courtney)

Another great screencap. Did you also find it odd how long they filmed Kate on that tree?

Did anyone else notice that when Mikhail shot Sayid he shouldered the rifle onto his right shoulder? This maneuver typically requires the shooter to aim with the right eye. When I saw him shoot Sayid I laughed out loud.

Cheers
jg

[frankmorris]

This episode gave some credence to 'Fire + water'.
The vision of Aaron trapped in the piano & Charlie's consequent behavior (not to mention the heroin), caused Claire to want nothing to do w/ him. I think it's obvious that the 'island' (for lack of a better word) does not want them together.
Also, there was a dove ascending in the 'mother & child' vision. It was interesting that they used a bird as a means of salvation.

[Cameron]

from jg:

"Did you also find it odd how long they filmed Kate on that tree?"

Well, as a male who is squarely in the demographic to which TV advertisers try to sell beer and SUV's, I would have to go with 'No' :)

[alex's slingshot]

Claire definitely has something to do with Charlie being in danger of dying. The "Tricia Tanaka is Dead" ep. provided a great scenario to kill Charlie, but no. Why would the universe be so fickle about how Charlie died? It must have to do with Claire since his death scenes always involve her somehow...

[col_mustard]

There is a high probability that Locke is the key to the whole island mystery. I have always thought that Locke is an operative and part of the psyop.

[Raj]

LOST IS BACK!!!!

3 great episodes in a row confirm this!!!

Can't wait till sunday and the podcast.

Take care and stay lost

Raj.

[alex's slingshot]

@ col_mustard

what, like Locke unlocks the key to the island?

sorry, so many possible puns so little time.

[Bob from Chicago]

Another thought I had.

Did the others want Clair's baby because he is Jack/Jacob's nephew/ Christian's grandson?

[frankmorris]

Nothing to sinister going on w/ Locke. The combination of his 'don't tell me what I can't do' attitude & his new found freedom from the wheel chair (& to much time in orange county) is what is behind his island zealotry. I don't think he is being to deceitful about who he is.
I do find his belief that 'we were all brought here for a reason' interesting after the discussion about the Valenzeti equation.
As for the list, I wonder if it was composed before flight 815, or after the crash.

[jg]

@Cameron,
Your point is well taken. Whereas, I’m not old enough to be Kate’s dad, I am at the upper end of the target demographic.
No more SUV's, thank you...a Guiness would be good though.
Thanks
jg

[Mark B]

Well I've never seen the comment section fill up so fast.

Main themes seem to be;

1. Danielle : Other, Dharma or barmy French woman ?
I have to say for a while now I've been convinced she's not just shipwreked on the island as she claims. It's not just one thing but a combination of many small things (her lack of apparent exploration, the look on Mikhails face when he heard her name, how she knows the Others will lie but claims to have avoided them, etc.) I'm really not sure if she is a Ben Other or a Dharma person. I like the theory about her being the last Dharma and setting up the distress signal BUT it does not say "They killed them" it says "It (or he) killed them". Also we still don't know who Brennan was on the message ? Could that be Jacob Brennan ? Also why have the Losties not asked her about it ? I totally agree with however said Danielle needs a flashback but won't get one cause it'll give too much away.

2. Locke : lunatic or man with a plan ?
He's definatly a changed man, I initially thought he'd killed Mikhail to prevent he saying that Locke was paralyzed but now I'm not sure perhaps he really is on a mission to destroy the Others. I'm still not convinced he blew up the flame on purpose and may have accidently done it by messing with the C4. Enter 77 may have done something else.

3. Jack : is he playing the Others or is he now batting for the opposition ? I'm sure he's playing the Others, no way Jack would turn his back on his Losties. We have been told over and over he needs to save people and he will do his upmost to save them. I don't think Jack is Jacob or Adam. That kind of time altering is just a spiralling rabbit hole which will cause no end of grief and as discussed before will open up the show to too many loopholes.

4. Claire/Charlie : Is she the cause of his "deaths" ? Desmonds future seeing is begining to annoy me already. He needs to see something other than Charlie dying. Why is it fixated on Charlie ? I agree that it's more than a coincidence that Claire seems to be the root of Charlies deaths.

6. The LIST. Nobody seems good enough to be on the list. So who is ? Is the list just Eko, Cindy and the kids. If so why did Ethan hang about at the beach so long ?

7. The plot twist that wasn't. Jack and Claire wasn't a plot twist cause we've speculated it to death here. Speculation is great until your right then the twist is "blindingly obvious". A friend at work never saw it coming at all, she just watches the show so clearly it was a plot twist for regular people like her. If you want to be surprised stop going to the forums/comment sections.

[jg]

@ Mark B,
Locke: “perhaps he really is on a mission to destroy the Others.”

I have felt for a long time that perhaps the Island: 1) had a ‘Spirit/Consciousness’. 2) The Smoke Monster is the physical manifestation of this Supernatural state of affairs. 3) I don’t think the Island likes the Others and wants to kill them. . 4) (The Island/Smoke Monster probably doesn’t like intruders in general.) 5) Finally, the Smoke Monster can only function effectively on part of the Island.

The Others are threatened by something,... like the Smoke Monster. That’s why they have to sneak around on the Island silently so as to not disturb the Monster.

Therefore, I posit that John Locke is an agent of the Island/Smoke monster. And he will never leave his beloved Island.

Thanks
jg

[sam]

I am now convinced about two thing:
1. Rousseau, or Danielle, is an other
Patchy was about to say "But you John Locke, you I might (blah blah blah) the John Lock I knew was par...
and then Danielle butted in.
Patchy was about to say Paralyzed. How would Danielle know to butt in at that very moment if they hadn't talked about it before. Why, I'm not sure. But you gotta remember that no one knows that Locke was paralyzed except for Rose, who hasn't told anybody.
2. Locke doesn't want to leave
He loves being able to walk around and and he is intrigued by the fact that he is in "the list." As both Ben and Patchy have said. Locke lied (about the C4) because he doesn't want contact with the outside world. He wanted to blow that thing up because he didn't want to leave. Locke is a very determined person, and being in a wheel chair lessens what he can do. And, if my Brain and Behavior class as taught my anything, that makes him feel that because he is mroe able on the Island, that leaving can only hurt him. he wants to stay!

Now, this is just my oppinion, hope to hear yours!

- Sam

[Mark B]

@Sam

Patchy said Locke was not on the list. He looked at each of the Losties in turn and gave a reason why they were not on the LIST. They were "flawed", "weak", "afraid" and "angry". I think Locke was the angry one but Mikhail may have be generalising and meant they were all all of the things. I'm not sure who is on the list.

Ben was playing Locke when he said he had come for Locke. He was trying to make Locke feel more important than Jack and thus break up the Losties. At least that was my take on it. I could be wrong, I usually am, just ask my wife.

However I agree Locke wants to stay on the island and has no reason to leave. Along with Rose and Kate and maybe Sawyer. See discussion between Kathy Fangirl and me on previous comments section.

[Jamie (c)]

Liked the show a lot, my favorite this season.

- I love that Sawyer is reading Fountainhead (but that’s just my objectivist upbringing influencing me).

- The fence was way too easy to defeat, heck I saw the solution well before Patchy asploded. (loved the cranberry juice squirting out his ear) So this makes me think it was constructed to keep dangerous animals out (and maybe a few stupid humans). Heck, you could probably run and dive through it with only trivial damage.

- It was nice to see Jack so happy, I hope Kate doesn't spoil it for him.

- I guess Rousseau didn't want to jump the fence? She must be French. Why was she with them again?

- Loved that Locke has been caught being sinister again. That's the shiat that makes this show so much fun.

- Felt like there was an odd 'thing' between Patchy and Rousseau - I kept expecting one of them to blow their cover.

- As valiant of an effort putting the note on the bird's foot was, being that it wasn't in some sort of container to protect it from the moisture, it'll likely not stay intact to be found by anyone. It'll be interesting to see if the partial note is found.

[bonneville]

this is eerie:

http://mattmadden.blogspot.com/2007/01/moomin-and-lost.html

[waitingforlost]

More on Rousseau, some old, some new ….

Q. Why when she kidnapped Sayid (in Solitary) did she happily torture him suspecting he was an Other to try to find information on Alex yet when she had Ben in a trap she knew he was an Other (how ?) she turned him over to Sayid. Why ?

Q. In Solitary, Sayid sees her name on the back of a set of grey coveralls not unlike Mikhail was wearing (his did not have his name on though). Coincidence that her team and Dharma have the same coveralls ?

Q. The wire from the beach ran right along the ground. Sayid was caught in one of her traps where the wire was clearly visible just lying there. Why has she never followed it ?

Q. For 16 years she's been looking all over the island for Alex. She has found the Black Rock but she has not found the Flame, the Sonic Fence or Othersville. How come ? Are they in the Dark Territory she once spoke of ?

Q. She claims that for 16 years (that's ALMOST 6000 days) she's been looking for Alex yet less than 80 days since she was first introduced to us the first time someone says they may have found Alex she's totally not interested. Duh ?

Q. She claims she has avoided trouble by avoiding contact with people. Yet she has sided with the Losties and gone of on expeditions with them, taken them to the Black Rock etc. Why ?

Q. She says she knows the Others will always lie but claims to have had no interaction with them. How does she know they will lie ?

Q. She claims to be a scientist shipwrecked on the island. What kind of scientist was she ? Could she have been a Dharma scientist on the way to the island just like Juliet ?

Q. Why was Rousseau spared by either the sickness or the Others ? Is she naturally immune to the sickness (which allegedly does not exist according to the LOST jigsaws)? Was she given the vaccine ? Is she on a list ? If she is on a list then why is she allowed to roam free ? Did Mikhail look at her when he was giving reasons they were not on the list. I thought not but maybe, Lostpedias episode synopsis does not mention her as not being on the list.

Q. If the sickness is a fake then Rousseau is lying about that. So what did kill her team ? The Others ? The monster ? Is she just mad and she killed them ? Was there ever a team ?

Rousseaus actions do not add up -- either she is a badly written character with lots of plot loopholes or she is someone with very mixed motives. Potentially she could just be crazy.

Some of the above can be explained as plot issues e.g. not following the wire and not finding the Flame or Sonic Fence or Othersville -- if she knew about them she would have told the Losties and that would have been a little dull.

[Jamie (c)]

@ waitingforlost - Rousseau = Jacob = Empress of the Others.

[Nash]

Spoiler Alert: behind the scenes pictures

http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t292/geoffislost/

Photos of a fresh beach grave and the submarine!!!

End Spoiler.

[Nash]

@Jamie(c),

Of course! The sonic weapon fence's main purpose is only to keep the polar bears from invading Izodville!

@waitingforlost,

Spoiler Alert: Jigsaw puzzle messages

Rousseau was spared by the sickness because it never existed. The messages on the back of the LOST jigsaw puzzles have revealed that fact: "There is no sickness" and "Quarantine is a hoax."
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Jigsaw#Completed_secret_messages.2C_decoded

I don't know if that means that she is just crazy, Dharma, or Other? My vote is on Dharma with a little bit of crazy mixed in for good measure.

End Spoiler.

[waitingforlost]

So if Danielle is lying about the sickness what else is she lying about ? Is Alex really her daughter ? Was she shipwrecked ? Was she part of a team ? Is she lying about everything or just selectively lying ? Is she the female "Henry Gale" ?

BTW Has anyone seen the Canadian trailer for next weeks episode ? It reveals way more than the US one.

[Joop]

Sometimes a felled tree between two metallic orbs is just a felled tree between two metallic orbs.

[Nash]

If it wasn't for her being female, I would be thinking that maybe she is Jacob in a Kaiser Soze kinda way. Of course Mikhail would probably be acting a little differently in her presence, but maybe he knows to play dumb in that regard. This is quite a stretch, but maybe all the evidence of Jacob being a man is just to throw the Losties off her scent? Makes for great OPSEC to pretend the leader is a man when it's actually Danielle. Maybe only certain people (like Ben) know her true identity and all the others just know of Jacob.

No, I haven't seen the Canadian trailer. Is it available on YouTube or anything?

[Cihan]

Rousseau as ”The Last DHARMA” theory is excellent, Radzinsky, good work.

I also like your thought of the world being destroyed except for the island. My first ever theory after watching the first episode was that humanity suffered some kind of alien attack and the island was all that was left, which of course is a hole-ridden theory now, but still interesting.

Also, I still think Desmond's visions are hallucinations caused by Smokey.

Anyway, great episode. I'm glad to see Locke back in ambigious creepy bastard mode. I wonder if Christian is simply Jacob and the mastermind behind everything, would be disappointing, but would make sense.

[jg]

@ Joop,
"Sometimes a felled tree between two metallic orbs is just a felled tree between two metallic orbs."

Thanks.
I'm still laughing.
jg

[waitingforlost]

Canadian promo is on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUv6JVXRuIc

Q. Who is the unknown man with the gun ?

[Nash]

@Joop and jg,

Priceless. Updated the title accordingly :)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilagentesegreto/422031595/in/set-72157600001056724/

[Jamie (c)]

@ Nash - excellent. I'm glad I wasn't the only one (ah hem) 'enjoying' that scene.

I'm SO glad they didn't use the C4 on it, ouch.

[lmnop]

is the community that jack was in at the very end the same place that was in the advertisement juliet was shown in her flashback about mittelos?

[alex's slingshot]

The theory about the outside world being destroyed when the sky turned purple definitely explains a lot. It explains why the Others lost communication, not necessarily because their equipment doesn't work, but because there is no one to communicate with. It sets up a compelling storyline involving Michael and Walt who clearly never could make it off the island. It is an easy out for the Others who promised both Jack and Juliet they could be released. It validates the women in the jewelry shop who said pressing the button would save everyone. It validates the notion that the work Dharma allegedly does "saves the world." It obviously gives creedence to the Desmond storyline where he does continue to relive events until the button always gets pushed thus saving the whole world. It also means that Claire spent all that time writing a beautifully poetic rescue note that will reach no one :(... It explains so much in fact, that I hope (if it is true) it's not the entire premise of the show (the purpose of Dharma or the Others, the reason no one can find the island etc) because that will kind of ruin the mystery of Lost.

[Jamie (c)]

@ alex's slingshot - how does the scene with Penny Widmore fit into the 'world being destroyed' theory?

Remember? Season two's cliff hanger? (that they've not gone back to yet).

"they've found it"

Seems to me the world is still intact, just sayin'.