Get Ready: The Man From Tallahassee

Yet another great new episode of LOST last night, with the airing of season 3, episode 13 of LOST, The Man From Tallahassee. Got any thoughts about the episode? Thoughts about Locke? Speculation about what happens next?

We'll be podcasting this weekend, so get us your thoughts by posting them here, sending us an email or leaving an audio comment by calling our automated audio comment voicemail at: 206-666-2278.

Comments

[tracic67]

Loved the episode last night. Some really great dialogue between Ben and Locke. I have searched through a couple of websites and everyone seems to think that Cooper, aka Locke's dad, is "The Man From Tallahasee". Why is that? When Ben tells the guy to bring me the man from Tallahasee, and he responds with why do you need him, isn't it obvious that Ben needs him as leverage? So, we would he ask that? So...my thought is, could the man from tallahasee be the guy that recruited Juliette in Miami? Or have I missed something? Thanks and I can't wait for the podcast.

[Anna]

So I can't take credit for this thought, but when Ben was talking about "the box" my friend brought up Leonard when he was telling Hurley not to use the numbers and that he would "open the box". Just thought that was an interesting connection...

[alex's slingshot]

McCutcheon whiskey makes a return. I guess it's the official drink of rich, but terrible father figures.

[Brian]

This was a great episode. Although I wish Locke hadn't blown the sub, I can see haw it contributes to the story. Ben left that situation scott-free!

Locke's fall off the balcony was a great carry-over from his last encounter with his father. Why is Cooper on the island...? Well, if we believe what Ben is alluding to, then the island made Locke's father "materialize" (either through another accidental arrival on the island like a crash, or through some worm hole). He materialized because of that "feeling" that Locke had when he realized his father tried to kill him. I think the island connects with Locke because his follies are not of his own doing. His follies are mostly at the fault of others around him...his father, the drug cartel, Ben, Eko, etc...

This contrasts with the faults of Jack, Sayid, Kate, Sawyer...and many others. They are responsible for the evil that has entered their lives through their own decisions. Therefore, they are the ones who suffer on the island, not knowing their own fate. Locke has "seen inside" the island and made a connection with it because of his honesty and integrity. So, the island has "delivered" to Locke the one person/thing that has caused him so much pain. I think he will have an opportunity to confront his father and either make peace, or make war. This decision will determine whether he is free to leave, or whether he stays forever and dies there.

One more thing..Anyone think that Ben is the DeGroot's son?

[Jamie (c)]

@ Anna - I wonder if there's a box connection there? I thought that Leonard was referencing Pandora's box.

It's really too bad that Locke is such a tool. Even when Alex told him that Ben was a manipulating him, he went ahead and blew up the sub.

His behavior is like he's the island's (or Ben's) puppet.

Now I know this is a stretch, but for a moment there I got this feeling Ben was sizing Locke up like one might a car they're about to buy.

Could Ben be planing a brain transplant into Locke’s body? I mean the box can deliver anything you really want, right? ;)

[Alex]

@Jamie

I don't want to start a big discussion on this, but if the episode last night said anything, I believe it said that Locke is not a tool. it pretty much confirmed that everything crazy he has been doing lately was for a reason. And he blew up a submarine. Even if Ben wanted him to do that, Locke wanted it ALSO, so it wasnt just being a tool to blow it up.

[scott]

wow. That was a really, really great episode. I was starting to lose faith in poor stupid Locke - but now I remember why I love him so much! I thought that ALL of the character interactions were fantastic... I found myslef on the edge of the seat just wanting more out of each conversation. Especially Locke & Ben's conversation. so much was written into the show without using words - very brilliant.

"You've been on this island for 80 days, I've been here my whole life. What makes you think you know so much more about this place than I do.

Because you're in a wheelchair and I'm not."

best lines of dialogue I've heard from both these characters... so great.

[Jamie (c)]

@ Alex - not what I got out of it. To me it feels like he's manipulated to think he's on a special mission and to not think for himself.

But I could be wrong. Also, what was the comment about 'them' leaving the C4 in Sayid's bag? I thought it was in Locke's bag. (scratch scratch)

And why was Locke soaking wet? Was the it a sauna sub? ;)

[daviboy]

Great episode! After two and a half seasons we finally learn about Locke's accident...albeit a little over the top with the 8 story fall. However, I felt so sorry for Locke when he didn't want to sit in the wheelchair. Terry O'Quinn is an amazing actor when it comes to emotion.

Also, I think Ben's reference to a "box on the island" is just an analogy. We all know Ben knows a little too much about our Losties and I don't see it being a stretch that he could have Locke's father kidnapped and brought to the island so that he could have some leverage over Locke and his connection to the island.

BTW, wasn't the dude who opened the door for Locke at the end of the episode a member of the Hanso Foundation? I'm pretty sure he was in the LOST EXPERIENCE over last summer. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Can't wait for the podcast! Stay LOST!

[Radzinsky]

Another GREAT episode. With the exception of Hurley's feel good VW ride and Juliet's branding, Lost has been ridiculously good since it came back (I didn't think that the first 6 episodes were so bad either).

So... let's get the theorizing started today.

I'd like to start us off with a biggie. And controversial.

We suspect that the Island now has some "wish-granting" power. Ask for something hard enough, want something bad enough, open up this proverbial box, and inside will be the object of your desires. And this has supposedly brought Locke's Dad to the Island.

Who else do we know who wanted something very badly and, against all odds, it appeared on the Island? Who said that he believed in God because a miracle just dropped out of the sky?

**** Could it be... that the Island's "wish-granting" powers brought Ben a spinal surgeon? Is that what crashed Flight 815? ****

Let's chat about it...

~Radzinsky

[Courtney]

Anyone get the feeling that someone in the past opened the box and smokey is what came out? I got the feeling that Locke's dad was a manifestation of smokey - not really there in person. Could how smokey reacts to you in its manifestations have something to do with whether or not you're on the list?
And can I just say that Ben doing comedy was HILARIOUS! "we have two giant hamsters running on wheels..."
I also felt incredibly sorry for Locke when he was being put in the wheelchair. Almost shed a single tear for him. He is such a great actor.
As for the guy opening the door... I'm pretty certain he was the same guy that recruited Juliet, posing as someone from the Mittelos corp. This gives even more credibility to the theory several of us talked about last week - believing that Juliet was recruited by the others posing as Mittelos rather than her having been a DHARMA recruit.

[Alex in Dallas]

One of the many things I found interesting about this episode was that Locke's dad told the lady he was conning that he was from Ontario. Isn't that the same story Ethan Rom told the Losties right before they exposed him as an Other? Hmmmm?

[daviboy]

@ Courtney

"As for the guy opening the door... I'm pretty certain he was the same guy that recruited Juliet, posing as someone from the Mittelos corp."

Thanks for the clarification on the guy opening the door. I knew I had seen this guy before but I wasn't for certain.

[Jamie (c)]

Just a thought - might all the odd shiat on the island "bad wishes"?

Smokey, Polar Bears, that mechanical noise thing that sounds like a dinosaur?

Could the sonic killer fence be a way to keep the bad wishes out of the compound?

Though it's fun to believe in 'the box' - remember who told you about it. Ben 'the puppet master'.

So, I also have to wonder when Penny and her search party are going to arrive. The last episode for the season?

[Bernie]

Why couldn't the man from Tallahassee be Jack. When Ben said to go get him, Jack was urged to go by his "keepers" and then he ended up in Ben's place. Any thoughts on this?

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

@radzinsky

I was thinking that too about the spinal surgeon falling from the sky bit. Here's the thing though, so far anything that seems supernatural at the time gets a scientific explaination it seems. So, in 80 days they could have found out Locke was there, got his file, realized if they wanted him to be a part of their group they would need some leverage, and then had their people go find him ala recruiting Juliet. If they did this quickly enough, he could have been on the island before the sky went purple.

[Bernie]

BTW, I am from Tallahasee, so that aspect interests me. We even had a write up in the paper about the Man from Tallahassee. I love Brian's theories and the theory about bad wishes. That would tie things up well - some of the wierder aspects of the first episodes.

[mudshark]

The Man From Tallahassee may have just showed up one day (recently?) and Ben's people took him prisoner. How much info do they have on the Losties? They figured out his connection to Locke in any case, and the attempt to further manipulate (recruit? test?) our hero goes on...

As far as blowing up the sub, it may not be for selfish reasons. Consider that 'Entering 7 7' may not have been what blew up the flame, but initiated another Candle film full of further instructions.

[sam]

HOLY SHNIKY MUFFINS!!!
that was one ending I didn't expect.
How, to address the whole Locke is more intune w/ the island thing, Ben is playin him sooooooo bad! He has known this since the moment that Locke landed on the island, and he knew that he would need to use him. Ben, like Alex said, is a manipulator. He knows how to use people to benefit himself. He knew that Locke would come in handy, and thats why he hasn't killed him yet. Ben has plans for Locke, because if Locke has a "communion" with the island, then wouldn't he kill Locke so that he couldn't mess up Ben's plans or something.
As for the whole Ben speach about how he couldn't kill Jack because that would be going against his word. He said that his people feel this way. Well, not all of his people. Remember Ethan Rom? ohh yeah, and that guy who was with the tallies (can't remember his name)? Well, they didn't seem to feel that way.
And did anyone else think that Jack was talking more and more like the others when he was talking to Kate?

STAY LOST!!!

-Sam

[sam]

HOLY SHNIKY MUFFINS!!!
that was one ending I didn't expect.
How, to address the whole Locke is more intune w/ the island thing, Ben is playin him sooooooo bad! He has known this since the moment that Locke landed on the island, and he knew that he would need to use him. Ben, like Alex said, is a manipulator. He knows how to use people to benefit himself. He knew that Locke would come in handy, and thats why he hasn't killed him yet. Ben has plans for Locke, because if Locke has a "communion" with the island, then wouldn't he kill Locke so that he couldn't mess up Ben's plans or something.
As for the whole Ben speach about how he couldn't kill Jack because that would be going against his word. He said that his people feel this way. Well, not all of his people. Remember Ethan Rom? ohh yeah, and that guy who was with the tallies (can't remember his name)? Well, they didn't seem to feel that way.
And did anyone else think that Jack was talking more and more like the others when he was talking to Kate?

STAY LOST!!!

-Sam

[my-2-cents]

As previously hinted, we're gonna need to brush up on Flann O'Brien's "The Third Policeman" and the relation between the magic box mentioned there and the mysterious box Ben describes. Also, I think it's reasonable to believe that Leonard did in fact have a life-altering encounter with "the box", whether it is a form of Pandora's Box or not.

[Bryan from the Dena]

Hey guys,

Great Episode, it always feels good to be out of breath (figuratively speaking) at the end of a Lost episode. So here are my thoughts:

1. Ben confirmed for us that the only way on or off of the island was by the submarine, and since the beacon had been destroyed the sub can leave but not return. I am fairly positive we can take this as truth since we get Ben's little explination about Jack leaving. My question is this, where does that leave Michael and Walt? If what Ben said is true, the Michael and Walt could not have been able to escape the island (or rather group of islands [more than the 2 we know]). And if they couldn't escape the island then they are either driving around in their boat still or the bearing given to them lead to a third island. Of course on the other hand, if the bearing given them was accurate, then Locke blowing up the sub still wouldn't solve Ben's problem because the have Desmond/Libby's husbands boat. So because they still have that boat, and Ben definately doesn't want Jack to leave I must conclude that they still have plans for Walt and the bearing given them was to another island, not the way home. However (and i need to go back and see how the scene played out) if a promise was made to Michael about being set free, then that just raises the whole, if Ben breaks a promise he would be seen as week and unable to lead the group. So was it a group decision to lie to michael and walt or what? (Sorry I am so long winded today)

2. The box that Ben talks about. I know most of us immediately thought of Pandora's Box ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora%27s_box ) for the obvious similarities. The wiki article has interesting information pertaining to it. I could be way off here but this seemed interesting to me:

Pandora's Gifts Lost Characters
Healing Locke, Rose, Jin
Curiosity Locke
Cunning Sawyer, Jack, Ana Lucia, Sayid
Boldness Sawyer, Kate, Jack, Locke, echo
Charm Sawyer, Kate, Hugo, Rose, Bernard
Mischeviousness Sawyer, Kate, Charlie
music Charlie
Molded her Claire, Sun, Aaron
Clothes Hugo (clothed naked desmond)
jewels Bernard (i think it was him who wanted the pearl)

Obviously I am missing some, but the gifts of the gods given to Pandora seem to be our losties. (although i guess i could've done this with ay show. Oh well!)

Anyways, that is my rant for now, what do you think?

[Black Eyed Dog]

Wonderful episode...Lost has hit its stride again.

But remind me why Sayid has such a bad-ass reputation? I can't remember the last time one of his plans DIDN'T fail. I almost laughed out loud when it was revealed he'd been captured. Anyone else getting a "Monty Python" feel about Sayid?

Deadly serious delivery: "I am a torturer."

"But you didn't get anything out of Ben."

Deadly serious: "I have a plan to rescue Jack, Kate, and Sawyer."

"But you blew up Desmond's boat and didn't get them."

Deadly serious: "I will cover the front. You go around back. Locke will take the side."

Five minutes later he's on his face, hands tied behind his back while Kate and the box salesman have infiltrated the compound.

[Lorne]

Why is noone mentioning Walt? I thought it was theorized that he had the power to materialize thoughts.
Maybe Ben has Walt somewhere?

[Drederick_Tatum]

What a great episode! What a great twist! But is this Cooper the same Cooper from outside the island, or is this Cooper a "copy"(ie; "The Prestige") of the Cooper from the outside world. Now, I'm off to rewatch the entire series to see which "manifestations/teleportations/faxes"(call it what you will) might be on the island!

Also, I think Locke did NOT blow up the sub, but rather let it sink and blew up the dock area around it after swimming to the surface...

[Deviant]

"The Man from Tallahassee" is Cooper/Locke's dad. Ben was talking to Tom and Richard. Richard is the man who recruited Juliet, but in the first scene you didn't see his face. This is when Locke was in the closet with Alex. Richard didn't know Locke was in the closet, hence why he didn't know why Ben wanted "the man from Tallahassee". In the final scene, Richard and Ben present Locke with TMFT/Cooper.

No mystery to look into there, folks. Except maybe why they were referring to Cooper as TMFT.

As for my thoughts on the episode, I'm just so glad to see that Lost is back to pumping out an hour of solid entertainment every week. As for the rest - the theories, the lesson on some historical figure named Peter Talbot, etc etc, that's why I listen to Lostcasts.

Until then, I'm just a satisfied viewer. Looking forward to the podcast, as well as next week's Nikki/Paulo episode, which looks... interesting. Really not sure what to make of what I've seen and heard about it so far, but I'll save that for the spoilers section of the podcast.

[Deviant]

"Also, I think Locke did NOT blow up the sub, but rather let it sink and blew up the dock area around it after swimming to the surface..."

Holy crap, that is a fantastic theory. That definately fits, explains why he was soaking wet, and adds a new twist to the "who's playing who" angle. I think you're onto something. VERY interesting.

[Truman]

My theory is that Ben saying, "get me the man from Tallahasee" was his way of secretly asking for Jacob. Jacob controls the smoke monster which, as we've seen, can manifest itself into any one/thing a person wants to see (hmmm...sounds a lot like "the box"). Smokey (Jacob), manifests itself into Locke's dad at the end of the episode.

[Tahir]

This goes down as one of my favourite Lost episodes of all time.It joins the list with The Pilot, 2 for the Road, Lockedown and Tricia Tanaka.

Although a tad contrived Ben is brilliant in this.

I too felt sorry for Locke when he first got in the Wheelchair - I'm also glad he wasn't acting the fool and he had a plan all along.Wether we agree with it is another matter.

As for Cooper...I dont know.The logical explanation is that he's been on the Island for a while.

[Joni]

It would be interesting if Locke just submersed the sub and blew up a bit of dock to make it look the sub was destroyed. I couldn't figure out why he went into. Why didn't he just slap it on the outer surface above the water? Why was he soak and wet? Seems to fit!!

Again, Lost is BACK!

Locke is really my favorite. He has the most interesting story. His dad has controlled his life since he was child wondering about his parents to living in a wheelchair as a result of his father. Now his actions on the island are driven by the interaction with his father. Finally, he has the power.

Can't wait to hear what you guys make of Cooper being on the island! Or if it even is Cooper.

Also curious about Jack's tattoo.

And when Peter Talbot said his mom was seeing someone named Adam Stewart . .I almost thought he said Sawyer.
Cooper is most definitely Sawyer's Sawyer.

[Cornelius Jacobszoon Drebbel]

Have we discussed, or explored the question of why you need a sub, specifically? What is it that makes traveling to the island, at the surface level, impossible, dangerous, or whatever? There has to be some reason to have a sub versus a boat. If it was to detect the homing beacon, I would think a boat could be equipped with an underwater sensor. Makes me think that there could be a security perimeter at the surface level of the water that a sub would be able to "subvert" by going under the surface. I'm sure there are many other possible explanations, and I look forward to reading what y'all think.

[bernie]

I love the theory about not sinking the sub - excellent and makes for a great spin on this. Have you noticed how cat like or goat like Ben's eyes are. They look pretty devilish and I wondered how they achieved that effect and if it means anything - I think so. I also think the man from Tallahasee is not Locke's father but who is Jacob and how does he control the smoke monster? I am new to this. I want to know where the numbers come in and hope we get some idea before long.

[Greg]

I thought it was yet another great episode in a string of fantastic ones.

One relationshipp that I haven't heard talked about too much is that if this sub required a beacon to navigate it back to the island, the implication seems to be that the island has a very unique relationship with the real world (enter worm hole/interdimensional theories). How then was it possible that Flight 815 just stumbled upon the island? could they have picked up the beacon's signal and thought it was an airport?

I guess in my mind it points to more than just a coincidental crash...

[Scott]

Apparently the island can manifest peoples' wants, with greater or lesser directness depending on the individual. We also know that Him (Jacob) has been described as a great man but also an unforgiving one. Perhaps Jacob is so admired and feared because the island manifests his wants with even more directness than it does for Locke. If so, a possible inspiration for the Jacob character might be Anthony Fremont, played by Billy Mumy on the Twilight Zone episode "It's a Good Life".

http://www.scifilm.org/tv/tz/twilightzone3-8.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_a_Good_Life_(The_Twilight_Zone)

I could be wrong, but I see the smoke monster as having relationships with various people and giving them what they want if and when IT feels like doing so.

[Lorne]

@Greg
Maybe the Island brought them there.
I think the island is a physical manifestation of the Valenzetti equation.

[Jamie (c)]

@ Joni - I agree about Locke just sinking the sub, better still he opened the balast tanks, closed the lid and blew up the dock. He didn't 'sink' it as much as just parked it on the bottom.

This would explain why he went in and was soaking wet later. It would also make his character seem stronger and more mysterious, with a still unknown hidden agenda.

I'm not certain - but when he's walking back from the sub, the sub is not docked (or visible) as it was when Alex brought him there.

[Lmnop]

@anna

i think you might be on to something. I was watching some episodes from season 1 yesterday and one of them was "numbers" (i think that was the name). it was when hurley went to visit leonard and he told him he used the numbers, and leonard started freaking out about how the box has been opened. It may not be significant, but maybe it's something to look into.

[biolite]

At first I was going to write how I thought this episode was somewhat weak and predictable. When Ben asked for "The man from Tallahassee" I immediately thought it was Locke's Dad.

BUT, reading everyone's comments and thinking about it myself I've changed my view from decent to awesome!

I think the idea of Locke NOT blowing up the Sub is a great one. To be fair I'm not sure if Locke would know how to submerge a submarine then leave the ship while it's underwater (I’m not even sure if you can do that. I would be more inclined to think that Locke simply moved the sub somewhere out of sight, swam back and blew the dock.

The magic box...wtf?! Is there really a magic box on the island that grants wishes?? At first I thought Ben was trying to mess with Locke, but I think it's too far-fetched to NOT be true ;)

It defiantly gives a Pandora's box vibe. The notion of the box gives me a big Pandora's box/His Dark Materials trilogy/"Shore Leave" vibe.

In The Subtle Knife (book 2 of the HDM trilogy) the characters discover a knife that can cut through dimensions, but doing so releases these specters that eat adults thoughts.

For those non-Star Trek fans, the episode "Shore Leave" from the original series puts the crew of the Enterprise on a planet where their thoughts would manifest on the planet. For example if you were reminiscing about an old friend, that friend would walk out of the bushes, or if you were thinking about Alice in Wonderland all of a sudden the white rabbit runs in front of you. To be clear, you didn't wish for something to appear and it did, you merely thought about something (almost sub-consciously) and it would show up, good or bad. In the episode someone thinks about a tiger and gets attacked by a tiger, someone else thinks about medieval stories and gets attacked and killed by a "Black Knight"

SO, what if...There is some sort of magic box on the island that will create whatever you think of, as Ben said. If it is a property of the island it's possible that the entire island is to a degree a wishing box, it's just more potent in a certain area (which the others most likely control). That would explain why people's thoughts sometimes manifest into physical objects: Walt & the polar bear, Kate & the Horse, Jack & his dad, Hurley & Dave or Hurly and the food.

To postulate further (and to go back to my leyline theory from WAY back) it's possible that only people that are "in tune" with the island are the ones who can REALLY make good use of its abilities which is basically all our main characters/anyone who is connected to anyone else and/or the numbers. Just because Ben was born on the island doesn’t mean he is "in tune" with the island.

Also, as many other people have stated, someone could of made a "bad wish" which resulted in the creation of the smoke monster with a Pandora’s box/subtle knife vibe.

Whew, sorry I'm really going on here. TO close I thought the dialogue in this episode was great. Ben/Lock had some great moments and I liked the little exchange between Sayid and Alex "...you look like your mother." That was awesome.

Can't wait for the Podcast.

Biolite

[bernie]

Sayid, Hurley, even Sawyer have all begun relationships with women on the island only to have them killed off. Somehow they aren't allowed to be happy, content, in love and we see the seeds for Charlie going, breaking up that relationship in some way and next week it looks like more trouble for the Japanese couple. Alex was not allowed to be with her love. Does Jacob not allow relationships for his own motives. Everyone seems lonely and alone in some way or another, including the others who seem to be monk like and non-sexual as in a monastery. They steal children. Why do they have to? Why are they not what they seem? I think extraterrestrial and unable to produce. Ok - now I am reaching. We will see but if Jacob does guide every individual on the island, he leads them into loneliness and frustration.

[heathen]

Fabulous episode and I can't wait to hear the podcast and your thoughts. As far as I can tell, no one has commented on the Jack and Kate exchange and what they think that all means. We know nothing should be taken for face value on Lost and Jack's comments seemed to have something behind them. The Locke stuff was so great that we might forget to look at some of the smaller details and what they might mean. Any thoughts?

[Challabuck]

So is it possible to bound and gag the smoke monster? If anyone can do it, Ben can. Anyway, that was the first thought that crossed my mind.

[Courtney]

@Challabuck
I agree - if anyone can, it's Ben. But the real question that I have is: Is the bound and gagged Cooper a manifestation of Ben's mind or Locke's? (this, of course, hinges on the idea that Cooper isn't really there, but is a manifestation of smokey)

[Jon]

There are a number of boats available:
- Walt and Michael's (maybe still doing cookies in the sea) the same one that Walt was abducted with.
- The 'big' other boat that they evacuated Alcatraz with.
- Desmond's sail boat (which has had several owners, including Libby at some point)
- Alex's outrigger.

At least two of those might provide off-island transportation. Unless surface of the ocean is increasingly muddled and impossible. The sub could escape under the sea, and the Dharma drop plans can arrive through the air.

Other outsiders might be pertainent as Desmond's girlfriend mounts a rescue effort from the cliffhanger of last season.

The whole freaking cast has Daddy issues:
- Jack - nuff said
- Locke - almost killed by his
- Kate - killed hers
- Charlie - had issues with his butcher shop father
- Claire - same as Jack's
- Sun - oppressive
- Jin - embarrassing (though honorable as a fisherman)
- Walt/Michael - a bit symbiotic

Magic box, which tends to grant 'wishes' but does so through natural circumstances. i.e. Ben needs a back surgeon, cue the magnetic incident while Desmond was off the reservation.

Did Ben's others even know about the hatch (or other hatches) until Ben got captured by Danielle? Did he press the button, then lie to Locke, so that Locke would eventually not press the button? Seems like Ben just has the upper hand in getting Locke to do what he wants, though I do agree that in Locke's view, it was what he wanted too.

[bryguy]

Did anyone recognize the tune that Jack was playing on the piano?

[Nash]

@Truman and bernie,

I was just thinking of something along the same lines. What if Locke's dad is an Other (maybe even Jacob, but Ben didn't want to use that name showing all his cards) and he's just pretending to be held hostage to con Locke one more time. This would be another Kaiser Soze-type strategy similar to the one that Ben took when he was captured by Rousseau. I just don't buy the magic box story that Ben told. He's always messing with Locke's head and I think he's doing it again both to get out of the hostage situation and figure out how Locke is getting his powers from the Island. I also think the Lost writers will deliver something a little more tangible than the Sphere storyline.

[Jamie (c)]

Sub ain't sunk theory, support.

Here's a picture of the sub docked, it's clearly visible in the light

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f5/darkjohnson/Lost/Sub_docked.jpg

Here's the dock moments before the blast

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f5/darkjohnson/Lost/Sub_is_gone.jpg

And here is the blast, note it's center is not where the sub would be.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f5/darkjohnson/Lost/Blast_Center.jpg

So there you go, sub lovers. It seems very likely it's not the last we've seen of subby. :)

[black_eyed_dog_90]

Loved the episode, lost really has returned to the format that we love!
In regards to what my-2-cents said about the third policeman, as far as I can remember they get in a lift in some place and go to a place which they call eternity because they do not age there. It is a place full of doors and you can reach into anyone and pull out whatever you want. However you cannot take any of it with you back into the real world as it says in the book
"you cannot enter the lift unless you weigh the same weight as you weighed whenyou weighed into it" (they had to be weighed before they entered the place "If you do, it will extirpate you unconditionally and kill the life of you"
As for stuff about a box, the narrator has commited a murder and seeks black box belonging to his victim. I can't really remember much about it but wikipedia has some stuff on it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Policeman

Can't wait for the podcast!

[Alex]

Just had a thought. Maybe Locke was wet because he didnt blow up the sub. Perhaps he submerged the sub, or moved it, swam back, then blew up the end of the dock, to make it look like he blew the sub. Who would know, its not like anybody really knew he was there anyway.

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

I surprised no one has mentioned that we got something actually answered. The question was why would Ben want Locke to stop pushing the button? The answer is because Ben doesn't want his people leaving the island and he couldn't do it himself otherwise his people would be suspcious. Ah. An answer. Yay!

[Drederick_Tatum]

@ Jamie (c) - Thanks for backing the theory up. I'm waaay to lazy to do all that!

[Challabuck]

@Courtney

The reason I jumped on the smoke monster idea was that Locke seemed to look around the room at first, not focusing on anything in particular. I mean, why wouldn't he look straight at Daddy Locke when the door opened? Plus there were odd sounds coming out of the room, very un-boiler roomesque.

[Martin]

This feels so much like Forbidden Planet to me. Or for those of you not into classic Sci-Fi, the story is basically the same story in the lame Rip Off Sphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbidden_Planet#Plot

The other thing is that last week the guys mentioned the Tempest and Forbidden Planet according to Wikipedia is based upon The Tempest. So maybe Forbidden Planet is a lame rip off of that.

At any rate, the plot points are VERY similar, check it out.

[Cihan]

Not much to say just yet, but the look on Jack's face at the end was priceless.

Jack V Locke...continues!

[Nash]

@sublovers,

I think Locke was wet merely because he put the C4 on the outer hull of the sub and not on the inside. That way the hull would be sure to rupture and the sub would be inoperable. If he blew it up by putting the C4 on the inside, it might just destroy all the equipment that might be repairable later on. Based on his decision to blow up the Flame station as well, I think he's on a destructive mission to keep everyone on the Island where his destiny lies. After all, "all things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one."

@boxlovers,

To continue on my previous thread that Locke's dad didn't come out of The Box, I think Ben was making it all up, but maybe drawing from some experiences he's had with Cerberus/Smokey that seems to have similar powers. After all, do we actually know for 100% that he's actually Locke's dad? I don't think he ever had a paternity test done and he is the ultimate conman. He could just be Jacob of no relation to Locke, but kidney compatible. Somehow he used the powers of the Island to find a compatible donor and spun this complicated web of being his father as a long con.

Of course that theory might not follow Occam's razor either :) Maybe the Others just have a tesseract (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesseract) in the closet that can control to bring things from other places and time like a wormhole.

[Courtney]

@ Challabuck
Don't get me wrong, I am definately in the group who believes that Cooper was really a manifestation of smokey. I am just interested in who was actually manifesting Cooper... Locke or Ben (because he knew that would have a huge effect on Locke)???

[Frank Abagnale Jr.]

The theory that the plane "happened" to crash on the island, or somehow ended up there by coincidence just doesn't hold water for me, and this is why.....Cindy was a flight attendant on Oceanic 815. She is a confirmed Other, by when we saw her with the kids. Why would an "Other" just happen to be on the flight, as staff, when it crashed on the island. I know we have accepted that Desmond brought the plane down when failing to push the button, but I just can't see it being that happens-chance. There had to be some type of plot. Now, to work against my own point, I guess Cindy could not be an other, but just bought into their society in order to take care of the kids, after the crash...but I just can't see how the plane crash was anything other than an intended, manufactured outcome by Ben and the boys. Why else do you staff the airline with your people? No magic box theory for me.

[Jamie (c)]

@ Drederick_Tatum - no problemo, it's easy when you have an HD dump of the show. :) I'm convinced the sub is in a 'safe' place and that Locke wants them to think it's sunk (not sure how long that deception will hold water) ;-)

@Frank Abagnale Jr. - Cindy was with the tailies and was abducted almost right way. Have we seen anything that establishes her as an Other prior to the crash? I just thought she converted easily.

As for the crash being a coincidence, I'm not sure how many feel that to be true but I'm not one of them.

[Cihan]

I am confused. This is Lost so no surprise there. What is a manifestation of Smokey (Christian, horse, boar, Yemi, etc), and what is from the metaphorical box? Is the box analogy made up by Ben to deceive Locke? Is Smokey from the box? Or is Smokey the box? Is Cooper Smokey, or from the box? Or is Cooper actually real?

Locke not blowing up the sub is a pretty ridiculous theory I must admit. You'd think everyone on the dock would notice a sub was missing before the explosion.

When Locke fell out the window (ouch!) was Hurley in the building at the time, because that would be hilarious when re-watching that infamous Hurley flashback...

[Jamie (c)]

@ Cihan - "You'd think everyone on the dock would notice a sub was missing before the explosion."

Not if they were distracted by the sudden appearance of Locke - it just seems that if TPTB didn't want that to be a mystery they wouldn't have made the sub invisible in the scenes prior to the explosion. You would have had a close-up on the bridge exploding.

Why wouldn't he blowup the sub? Because 1) Ben wanted him too and he knew it, and 2) He wants it for his own use. Note: there ARE submarine simulator games, he may have mad sub skillz. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_simulator

So Locke COULD have been a Sub Commander (in his own mind).

[bernie]

Something interesting about Tallahassee. We have one of the biggest magnet labs in the country that draws scientists from around the country. Hmmmmmm... I'm not kidding you.

[Toad734]

Why did Locke need to blow up the sub?? Just because the survivors might get rescued doesn't mean he has to go with them. What does he care if others leave the island? He doesn't really seem to need them for anything. Unlike Kate, he has nothing to hide when the outside world finds them. As with Rose, Locke isn't going to be the only one who chooses to stay.

[Nash]

@Jamie (c),

Nahhh. Ben and Cooper(/Jacob?) are con-men and they've always played Locke like a fiddle. Ben got exactly what he wanted through a little reverse psychology, telling Locke that he didn't want him to blow it up so he could keep his promise to Jack and let his Otherlings think they could leave at any time.

[Lorne]

Bryguy : Did anyone recognize the tune that Jack was playing on the piano?

Nope, but I'm going to guess it's a song his Dad sang to both him and Claire, and that's how they'll start connecting the dots.

[SMKGrl]

I'm just not getting this...

If the "Box" makes your dreams come true, why would it bring Locke's Dad to the island. Does anyone believe Locke really wants to see him again? Why would it give him THAT of all things. I think it should have been an all-dark meat 20 pound cooked chicken in the locked room.

[bernie]

Nash -
Cool idea that Locke's dad is an other. I like that. If he is trying to raise money by cons for the organization and Locke has gotten the ability to be powered by this island from his dad . . . also, how is the heck would he not die falling 8 floors. The nurse implied this, maybe he had powers from his dad, just not fully realized. I am loving this idea. . .

[alex's slingshot]

not only do a lot of characters have "daddy issues," but sibling issues (shannon/boone, charlie/liam, eko/yemi, and now maybe jack/claire) and relationship issues (jack/sarah, kate/tom/kevin, boone/shannon, sun/jin, claire/tom, claire/charlie, sawyer/kate, sawyer and that women he allegedly had a daughter with, jack/kate, jack/juliet, hurley/libby, juliet/edmond, desmond/penny).

if you expand daddy issues with parental issues then you can include sawyer who lost his parents at a young age, ana lucia who had issue with her mom, shannon who had mommy issues, and desmond and jin who were both unsuccessfully trying to impress sig. other's fathers.

all that suggests a greater theme of family issues.

[I_Love_Sayid...&_Lostcasts]

After reading the below article from Lostpedia I'm pretty convinced Locke's dad is an Other:

"During DJ Dan's 7/05 podcast, a listener by the name of Anthony called in saying that in the 70s his grandmother joined what he thought was a cult by the name "KARMA Imperative", although he probably meant to say the DHARMA Initiative but simply misspoke the name. According to Anthony's story, his grandmother joined the "KARMA Imperative" while attending the University of Michigan and was taken to an unknown location in the South Pacific and was never seen again, declared dead. In DJ Dan's First Live Podcast of August 11, 2006, Dan identified Keith Strutter as the guitarist and founder of Geronimo Jackson, and noted that Strutter's previous band was called the Karma Imperative. He also said that Strutter started Geronimo Jackson in the '60s." (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Geronimo_Jackson)

[Cihan]

I'm leaning more towards it actually being Locke's dad in the room, not a manifestation or Smokey. Primary reason being that human manifestations are usually seen by one person, whereas it looks like Locke's dad is going to be interacting with everyone. Plus he's the man from Tallahassee and has been kept in Othersville for a while it would seem. This entire show is like a Bond villain's wet dream.

[Brian]

i don't think the smoke monster can manifest itself into other creatures. the smoke monster was once described as the island's "security system." why would a security system need to create manifestations to complete a task? if it's goal is to protect the secrets of the island, where was it when Sayid, Locke, Danielle, and Kate were scaling the wall into Othersville? Surely, the E/M pulses or waves that were created from throwing Mikhail into the electric fence would have attracted the black cloud and caused a confrontation of another kind.

- i don't think the black cloud is a manifestation, nor can it cause them

- i don't think the black cloud is omniscient (Jacob) pertaining to island matters either, or it would have met our Losties scaling the electric fence.

- i also don't think the hatch implosion cut off all power or communication to the island or Othersville would have no power, therefore no chicken leftovers.

- i think Ben was born on the island, but i don't think he is a "native" of the island. therefore, he has no super-human connection to it.

now, what i do think:

- i think Cindy was an other...along with several of the other passengers on the flight. those first rounds of kidnappings in S1 were the Others "rescuing" their own kind from our unknowing protagonists' follies.

- i think the pilots of the plane knew exactly where they were going and were waiting for Desmond to misstep in the hatch. Desmond's misstep was contrived and timed with the plane crash by Ben's instruction.

- i think the sub was necessary so the Others could move en-masse to and from the island without being seen. there must be some kind of cloaking on the island so that it is not visible from satellites or other traditional methods. the hatch implosion was the only indication we have seen that anyone outside the island knows it exists or has any indication it is there.

- finally, Sun goes crazy in the next epi and kills someone...

[I_Love_Sayid...&_Lostcasts]

@ nash & bernie

remember Bad Twin? The hier apparent was conning his father into giving him $ and it turned out that he was using it to fund a hippie spiritual pearl farming commune off the coast of Australia.

[alex's slingshot]

@ Jon

don't forget Hurley! he definitely had daddy issues

[Nash]

@bernie,

TOTALLY! I hadn't thought of Cooper being a Mittelos/Hostile/Other fundraiser but that totally fits. I think we're on to something. Of course the 8th post-zombie season might reveal the two giant hamsters in the basement conjuring up giant water bottles without those annoying metal balls stuck in them.

@ILS&L,

Maybe I'm just dense (and I didn't follow The Experience all that closely), but how does Keith Strutter founding Geronimo Jackson further support our Cooper-is-an-Other theory? If Strutter started the Dharma Initiative he probably didn't also start Mittelos/Hostileville since they were at war during the purge, right?

[Toad734]

Oh, not only did Locke not need to blow up the sub, but why did they say that no one can now find the island now that the beacon was down?? Cant these people read maps and compass'?

[Nash]

@ILS&L,

So you think Cooper is actually Alexander Widmore continuing his conning ways to fund Mittelos? I never read Bad Twin after the review it got on Lostcasts, but here's the plot synopsis:
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Bad_twin#Detailed_synopsis

[Truman]

@ nash

Okay, I know circumstances are totally different, but someone can survive a long fall out of a building (16 stories in this case) and live: http://www.startribune.com/462/story/949072.html

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

@ Toad

No, they can't because of the magnetics of the island. They can only find it because of the signal the beacons give off.

I'm starting to think that the "incident" might be that maybe something caused the magnets to increase to a point where they couldn't get to to the island any longer in regular boats. That's why the numbers needed to be typed in every 108 minutes so the beacons can let people know how to get to the island.

[Joop]

Locke wins the daddy issue prize hands down.

Whoa...did you see the tension between Jack & Locke? The 'man of science, man of faith' little game has moved to the next stage.

Locke's supervisor used to mock him about playing war games so taking a sub simulator course would not be out of character...although he could have been wet because, as Nash said, the outer hull would be the place to put the C4.

I won't pretend to know WTF is going on.

I love this show.

[Jallafsen]

Wow! Best episode of the season! Proves that John Locke is still the most interresting caracter. About time we got a decent backstory, and great othersville-action too!
The cliffhanger was excellent, i bet his father is smokey!

[I_Love_Sayid...&_Lostcasts]

@ nash

ok...it's possibly a bit of a stretch but...

Anthony called into to the show and said that his grandmother joined a cult in the south pasific called the Karma Imperitive (which was the leader of Geronimo Jackson's first band). Anthony is also the name of Locke's dad. Perhaps it's hinting to the idea that way back when "the cult of The Others" started Lock's family was involved...and still is. Maybe all the references of the band around Locke (the record he finds in the hatch, the cop with the tee-shirt his dad gave him)are part of this connection.

Also...and this is a super big stretch:
The Lostapedia article sais that Magna Carta (Geronimo Jackson's album that apears on the show) anagrams to "Anagram act." So I ran Geronimo Jackson through an anagram program and found "A CON JOKER SING OM".

[I_Love_Sayid...&_Lostcasts]

Maybe Charles Widmore and "Anthony Cooper" are the Widmore twins referrenced in Bad Twin. Charles is the stern businessman son who took over the family business and Anthony is the prodical Zander... Jacob have I Loved anyone?

[Courtney]

@ Brian
Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty certain that we got conformation from Damon and Carlton that smokey/the monster/the black clouds/etc... does create manifestations. In one of the official LOST podcasts they discussed how we've seen smokey more than we thought and in another podcast they dissuced the people/animals that our Losties have seen. Also, remember the first time Eko meet smokey - smokey showed him several images or manifestations if you will, in the smoke.

[Anonymous]

The Man In Tallahassee was a great episode, rushing with tension and disbelief and MAKING GROUND on other episodes, perhaps the first time since Lost has been on the air.

As Kate and Sayid rush in to get Jack, they are immediately captured (Sayid on a swingset, Kate in a billiards room). A key moment for these two is when Sayid sees Alex and informs her of the mother that she obviously doesn't know she had, which gets Sayid hit by the guard along the swingset. More tension rises as Jack reveals to Kate that he is leaving on the submarine the morning coming.

But by far the greatest point of the episode was its informative look on the man known as John Locke. Flashbacks begin with John giving up disability pay for his depression at an office and the meeting of a man named Peter Talbot who says his mom met with a Mr. Adam Seward and that by curiosity about this man, Seward had found out that John Locke gave him the kidney. Locke lies and says it was an anonymous location. John follows this and finds his father in a florist show with Peter Talbot's mother and realizes that his father is conning Seward's mother for her money. He instructs his father to call off the wedding (to stop the insanity of another family) or he'd tell her himself. Later, however, it is revealed that Adam Seward is killed and reluctantly, Locke goes to find out if his father did that. At his condominium, Cooper (Locke's father) tells him that he is simply a con man, not a murderer. Unfortunately, John doesn't believe this. Anthony Cooper tells him to call Ms. Talbot if he wants the truth. As soon as Locke asks for the number by the phone, Cooper charges and throws him out the eight story building to a deathly plunge below. When John wakes up in hospital, two detectives inform him that his father fled to Mexico. Finally, with speckles of tears in his eyes, the poor man is helped into a wheelchair by the physical therapist.

John's storyline went as follows. As John follows with Kate and Sayid in the beginning, he goes towards Ben's house and confronts him with a gun, asking him for the submarine that Mikhail had told him about (see the last few episodes about this). As Locke is forced to the ground by Others (or the Hostiles, whichever fits), Ben instructs one of them to bring in "The Man From Tallahassee". Locke then asks Alex, Ben's daughter (and Rousseau's, see other episodes), to get Sayid's pack. As Ben is helped out of bed by John, they confront John's life, as Ben sees it. Ben confronts John on his back and Locke says, "I felt my back break." It is revealed that John wants to destroy the submarine so he can never leave, so he doesn't have to go back into a wheelchair. Ben complains that it will bring problems to his people (the submarine creates an illusion that they can go home, despite no communication to the outside world) and then bribes him not to blow it up by revealing a secret: a magic box that can make anything you want appear in your eyes. When Alex returns with the pack, however, John gets her to take him to the raft (despite her complaints of him being used by Ben). As Jack and Juliet go to the submarine, they find it blowing up and the culprint John Locke. As John gets captured one more time, Ben tells him he did want that to happen and that he'd show him the box as his reward. The magic box (a certain door in the Other's house) contains John's father, gagged and tied to a chair. John asks aloud, "DAD?"

Top notch episode, perhpas the best one of the whole series so far. This one, along with the episode detailing the Boston Red Sox winning for Jack, really stuck out among the rest. An element of this episode was making Ben look like John's father: conning people to do something. Very good work by the Lost crew. It also put lots of ground on the show and gave us an element of escape (the submarine) and yanked it back at us. It is like a line in Borat: "You can never get this. You can never get this. LALALALALA!"

Finally, it gave us insight into, in my opinion, TV's best character on the air, taking all the pressure of making better episodes and then stuffing for us all to see. Very well done.

NEXT EPISODE: EXPOSE (flashbacks Nikko and Paulo) Sun finds out about what Charlie and Sawyer did to con the castaways! Some heads are gonna roll. . .

[Jamie (c)]

You know, I'm not sure I get that Smokey is anything but some sort of smoke probe, like the water probe/tentacle in Abyss.

http://sgistuff.g-lenerz.de/movies/abyss1.jpg
http://www.evl.uic.edu/aej/527/pics/abyss.jpg

Did I miss something somewhere that made people think it's got this sort of ability?

[Rok]

forgiveness if this was mentioned and i missed it, but now i am beginning to get everything to coalesce from the info in the past few episodes.

let's assume that the dharma initiative to "save the world" was legit. i won't get into the specifics of the whole lost experience for those who didn't play or just don't care. but let's say that the dharma initiative didn't save the world, but what they DID do was make a tool TO save the world. the wish box. problem is, much like chricton's (sp?) "sphere," you have to be REALLY FRIGGIN' CAREFUL who you let use said-box. if you let someone use the box who is bad (can you say "flawed"?) you may get catastrophic events. but if you get the one person with the best moral fiber possible, you MIGHT just be able to use them to save the world.

so in this case, "the list" is a list of the best people possible to hopefully materialize the one thing that will save the world from destruction. the smoke monster is the result of them letting someone bad use it, maybe back when it was first constructed. so now, why bring locke's dad into it? to see if locke enacts his revenge against his helpless dad. or rather forgives than gives into it. perhaps the power of "the box" effects the entire island to a certain extent (and as long as someone on that island WISHES for the island to remain a secret to the rest of the world, it remains so...), and since locke has shown the most remarkable connection with the island (remember, ben seemed shocked at how instant locke was healed, and locke implied that his first exposure to a monster... maybe not THE monster... it was a bright shining light), ben needs to see if locke is the purest heart that could possibly use the box correctly and save the world.

this would explain why the others are so desperate to a.) keep anyone who they see as flawed OUT and b.) incorporate as many "good" people as possible IN. and the dharma initiative still makes the food drops and orchestrates incredible scenarios to populate the island with those individuals who it think can possibly be the one person good enough to use the box correctly?

[Cihan]

With all the mention of boxes, maybe the LostCast gang can go through all the analogies, from Pandora to Schrödinger's (cat) box. The wiki intro to Schrodinger is very Lost-ish:

"Schrödinger's cat is a seemingly paradoxical thought experiment devised by Erwin Schrödinger that attempts to illustrate the incompleteness of an early interpretation of quantum mechanics when going from subatomic to macroscopic systems.

If a scenario existed where a cat could be so isolated from external interference (decoherence), the state of the cat can only be known as a superposition (combination) of possible rest states (eigenstates), because finding out (measuring the state) cannot be done without the observer interfering with the experiment — the measurement system (the observer) is entangled with the experiment."

Replace cat with island.

[Connor Clements]

I hope Cooper is an Other, by the way did anyone notice the picture in his apartment? Its a building with 'Apollo' written on the side, slight connection?

[Rok]

p.s. this might also explain why the children are taken, as they are certainly the least "tainted" of anyone they can find to use the box. and if anyone falls out of line, they're put in the "room," for re-programming, because an accidental stray thought could kill them all if made too close to the box. this reminds me of the original star trek series episode where kirk, spoke et al. land on the planet where ANY thought was fabricated into reality.

[Rok]

sorry about the multiple posts, but something just occurred to me... didn't they also take desmond's sailboat in the raid that saw sun kill that woman? so it doesn't seem like the sub was the ONLY way off the island available to the others.

[Word]

I do not think Locke blew up the sub. John knew that Ben was going to let him do it as he did not take the C-4 from him. He just wanted to make Ben THINK he blew the sub up. Why would Locke carefully examine the sub's interior only to climb out, jump into the water, and somehow stick this wad of C-4 to the outer hull? That does not make any sense. I think he managed to move the sub away from the dock, swim to shore, and set off the C-4 there.

[Cihan]

Ben probably meant the sub is the only way off the island because they only have 1 sub. Sailboats and such just end up going in circles as we've seen via a drunken Desmond.

[frankmorris]

...which would imply that Michael & Walt were never meant to leave the Island...

I personally would love it if Locke didn't blow-up the sub. He would be yanking the strings of the puppet master. I can't wait for the line... You're pretty good...Ben...but I'm alot better.

& you guys thought Locke was stoopid.

[VegasMatt]

Rose had cancer then was cured by the island.
Locke was Paralyzed then also cured.

Ben had delevoped cancer and is now paralzyed,
since the Losties arrived.

Is there a deeper conncetion here?

[Cihan]

Nope, I think Locke blew the sub, his and Ben's goals were similar, its that simple. There's no reason for Locke to merely sink the sub, I mean what does he get out of it? I'm sure he'll get one over on the puppeteer one day, but not any day soon thats for sure, Ben just keeps coming up with surprises. Having said that I still dont understand why he was soaking wet, it did look like he went for a swim as opposed to sweating alot.

And yeah, I'm fairly confident Michael and Walt never left the island, they're cooped up somewhere, probably as 'guests' of Ben and co. Maybe they're in the large box or something.

I wish i could be bothered, but I want to see a screencap of Jack's expression countered with Locke's in their last scene together, so funny.

This season is really tiring my brain, I dont think I've come up with a big unified theory since mid-season 2, everyone else is too ahead of me these days (although I suspect they're spoiler-hounds thats why), I'm content with listening to podcasts and letting the show surprise me (I didnt see Locke getting chucked out a window or his dad at the end).

[louis_marino]

Just an idea, but what if the guy who recruited Juliet is 'the box'? When Juliet said she wanted her husband to get hit by a bus it happened right? What if he has some kind of power, maybe he can move around in time like Desmond and influence peoples' destiny (i.e. going back in time and somehow making sure that Locke's dad ended up on the island). He might also be the man from Tallahassee, but that could also be Locke's dad. Or neither.

Plus, it looks like he wears mascara, even on his lower eyelashes which is always a sign that something weird is going on.

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

I agree. I think Locke blew the sub. It would make less sense to the character for him to just sink it and be a puppet master. Not only is that not how Locke works, that is the very behavior that lost him a kidney and put him in a wheelchair. I don't buy it.

I'm not drinking any of Ben's kool-aid either. Everything he told John in the house felt like all the stuff he said to him about not pressing the button. He's just manipulating him just like everyone else in his life has prior to the island.

[sam]

@ lorne
DUDE!!!!!
I was totally thinking the same thing.
Except maybe Walt is the smoke monster!!!
nah, thats even a stretch for LOST
Anyways, I think that you may be right about the whole Walt thingy. Good idea!!

[Rob]

Terry O'Quinn deserves an Emmy for that episode...

BTW, Jacob is a great man. Jacob may NOT be limited by the boundaries of time and space (i.e., Physics). Jacob IS the smoke monster. He has evolved/transcended/whatever to that level. Those that were willing to die hope to get to that level. They were studying Walt to see if they could use any of that potential because Walt is not limited by the boundaries of time and space.

[Nash]

@Cihan,

In one corner we have John I'm-so-sorry Locke:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilagentesegreto/430912040/

and in the other corner, we have the reigning champ, Jack I'm-gonna-kick-your-a$$-so-hard Sheppard:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilagentesegreto/430912044/

[waitingforlost]

OK Nielson TV ratings just called me to fill out an tv watching guide .... so how many people can I squeeze into my front room at 9pm on Wednesday ???

[Lmnop]

remember in hurleys flashback when he was talking to his lawyer in first seasons and a man was falling outside the window? was that locke?