LOSTCasts 47: Enter 77

This latest podcast focuses on LOST season 3, episode 11, Enter 77. In this Sayid-centric episode of LOST, we discuss Sayid's backstory in Paris, the discovery of "the flame" station and the introduction of Mikhael Bakunin (aka patchy) and his history of the island.

Download podcast #47 here

Links related to the podcast:
Doc Jensen Entertainment Weekly Shoutout
The Fuselage: Rate this episode
Wikipedia: Mikhail Bakunin
Russian letter translation
BuddyTV interview with Lindelof and Cuse

LOST links:
LOST parody, Nun-fu: Found

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Join us next week for another podcast. Stay LOST.

Comments

[SmokeMonster]

i'm first!!!

[Tahir]

No Matt!

[Cihan]

Dude, dont turn this into AICN or we'll have a beer and cheets on you. Or something.

Even though Matt wasnt in the podcast, he still somehow manages to fit in a lame joke in there. That's my boy... *wipes tear*

[kristen]

nice intro 'music'!

[Cihan]

Oh yeah, that was a nice change. Although I dont like the destiny lady, cant wait until she's proven WRONG.

[kristen]

so, if there are no dharma people left, who was kelvin? was kelvin the last true dharma member, or was he an other?

[my-2-cents]

SPOILER ALERT!

Sneak peek! Great character makes his first appearance in the FLESH around mid-May:

http://themisfitishere.blogspot.com/search/label/marvin%20candle

Kate's husband Kevin to show up on LOST island?

http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2007/03/nathan-fillion-on-island.html

Aerial photos of new LOST set?

http://themisfitishere.blogspot.com/2007_02_01_archive.html
Cuse and Lindelof seem to think a FEW of these 8,468 people come pretty close to explaining the nature of the Smoke Monster:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AhhkOecU9RtQcXGCKlUDnlHpy6IX?qid=20070205191623AAxWW5B

Bumbed into Daniel Roebuck (Doc Arzt) in a Do-It-Center in Burbank, CA. Asked if he would appear in any future flashbacks, he winked in the affirmative. Also saw L. Scott Caldwell (Rose) eating breakfast at IKEA (also Burbank) a few weeks earlier in a pink jump suit (non-Dharma issue); she would only say while blushing politely that she's pursuing other opportunities.

Season 4 starting in Spring 2008? Bummer!

[my-2-cents]

Sincere thanks to Doc Jensen in the above EW.com article
for his shout-out to my post (Feb 17th) on this site
regarding Patchy as Prometheus, fueling more theories.
And thanks for bringing more fire to the masses,
"Carleton Zeus" and "Vulcan Lindelof" be damned!
I'm hoping their next "12 Labours"
will yield more enlightenment.

http://www.lostcasts.com/2007/02/get_ready_flash.html#comments

my-2-cents (aka "My Two Cents" in Doc Jensen's article).

[Aaron]

If I'm not mistaken, I think that the husband was also in the movie Crash. Incidentally, Daniel Dae Kim was also in it at the beginning

[DannyBoy]

i think sayid was lying bout knowing the woman. just watched it again and when he first meets her he doesnt look shocked or startled at all. he told her he thought bout her everyday. if he did surely as soon as her saw her he'd know what was going to happen or looked suprised or something.....

[Tahir]

I love you guys but that was a seriously weak podcast dudes.

[Jamie (c)]

@ DannyBoy, I'm with you but either way Sayid is quite the liar.

I'm in the camp that he was stretching the truth (aka lieing) at the end when he told her he knew her.

[Jamie (c)]

@ Lostcast Boys - Not only is Locke stupid about pressing 77, Sayid and Kate are stupid about NOT telling him about the C4. Overly friggin' stupid, beyond what I would expect from their characters.

They're on their way to confront 'the hostile others' and yet they don't take something that could give them a HUGE advantage?

It was a contrived writing choice and it doesn't age well the more I think about it. At least they could have had a scene explaining why they’re NOT taking it, three lines like…

Locke: Do you think we should take that C4? It could come in handy.
Sayid: I think not, it’s wired to blow if anyone should try and tamper with it.
Kate: Good enough for me, feed the damn cat and lets get as far from this place as we can.

Bottom line, I don't think Locke is responsible for the flame's destruction. I'm confident that it was triggered by who ever was monitoring Locke while playing the game. They blew the station once they knew everyone was at a safe distance.

[sam]

dude
how does Sayid know everything!?!?!?!?
Thats crazy!!!

[Jamie (c)]

@ sam - if I'm the dude you're refering to, Sayid demonstrated a couple times now his prowess with electronics - fixing the radio, the computer.

Being in the military it's plausible he would know about explosives and how to properly wire them.

This isn't about him knowing everything, just something relevant that would have made it more realistic for them to leave the C4 behind.

I'm just sayin'

[jg]

How do you know it is December 7, 2004?

If they have been on the island 78 days and it is now 888 days in real time since the plane crashed, the islanders are experiencing a 78/888 time dilation. That is for every day that passes on the island 11.4 days pass in the outer world. Therefore, the Black Rock (crashed 1883, tsunami resulting from the explosion of Krakatau) survivors would have known only about (120 years/11.4) 10.5 years of time passing. This of course keeps in step with my “immortal Other” theory.

A theme seems to be repeated: “What goes around comes around”.
The con man gets conned-Sawyer
The torturer gets tortured-Sayid
The killer gets killed-Eko
?future?
The Savior gets saved-Jack
The victim becomes the victimizer-Locke

As any good story, Lost is using archetypes to tell the tale. The Bible is full of stories that we are all at least remotely familiar (archetypes) as well as mythology (archetypes). Whereas Lost uses names from history, I don’t think those characters necessarily have anything to do with the implied philosophy. It has made me look up and review things I haven’t regarded since college. I like that.

Since I am on the archetype subject, I would posit that our beloved Lostcasters satisfy certain archetypes as well.

John-the kindly leader: Chevy Chase in “Vacation” or John Mclaughlin
Robert-the everyman: Will Ferrell or Tom Hanks
Matt- the smart guy: Dan Akroyd or Dennis Miller
Enough is enough.
Cheers
jg

[waitingforlost]

I can't help but say that I think you over-played the "Sayid is the human lie detector" card somewhat. If he is so good how come he fell for the "I need a new chef" line from Sami. Sayid seemed to know something wsa wrong but went along anyway.

Also given all the chat on the comments section about Dharma-Others-Hostiles links I was expecting more speculation on that. Still a good 'cast though.

[waitingforlost]

@jg

I think the timeline is based on Juliets comment about being on the island however long she said and the fact the TBTB commented that she went to the island very close to a significant event in recent history (9/11/01). I read somewhere that "Enter 7 7" was infact 77 days after the plane crashed.

Also your theroy is off as LOST is a tv show so does not move at the same pace as the real world -- there is no correlation to time on LOST and our time. However there may be a time difference between island time and Penny on the mainland time.

[waitingforlost]

Sorry hit the Post button too early .... to continue ....

The obvious example is that at the end of Season 1 when they blow open the hatch there is a 4 month hiatus in our time before they lower Kate in but about 5 mins pass on the island.

[frankmorris]

Of course Sayid new who she was, that was the whole point of his back story. Her forgivness had a profound effect on him, & true to character he is trying to break from his haunted past & turn a new leaf. It may seem like he didn't recognise her, but Sayid is a stone faced bad ass.

I have to agree that, considering the episode, the podcast was weak. It was...missing...something.

[jg]

@waiting
I’m speaking in generalities. The show speaks in generalities. To say that each real day is occurring at 1/11.4 time on the island (as we speak) would not fit. But so much of this show is preposterous in reality that perhaps this theory is as good as any other. But, I agree I’m probably wrong but having fun.
Thanks.
jg

[waitingforlost]

@jg

Quote : "But so much of this show is preposterous in reality"

Heratic !!!!

[alex's slingshot]

question:

if sayid spent time living and working in paris (according to this flashback), how is that he was of no help in season one when they first her rousseau's distress call and had to rely on shannon to translate? and again with rousseau's map and notes he took from her in S1? anyone? anyone?

[alex's slingshot]

i meant, first HEARD rousseau's distress call... sorry

[Sobaika]

@ alex's slingshot

France has a huge Arab and North African population and based on the restaurant, Sayid was hanging out with those he would speak Arabic with. Assuming he left on his quest for Nadia soon after this backstory took place, he shouldn't be expected to know any more French than featured in Beauty and the Beast.

[my-2-cents]

Possible MAJOR SPOILER BOMB!

GREEN LANTERN/FLASH FASTER FRIENDS part 2
(a.k.a. "Walt's Comic Part 2" - you knew there had to be one)

http://lostlinks.net/scans.htm

OR

http://lostlinks.net/scans/waltscomic2.zip

Uncanny similarities to recent story lines in LOST.
Below is my content summary using quotes from the comic.
These descriptions should make many theorists' ears perk up.

Opening Pages:
Background story a la "last time on LOST."

Page 2:
"Decades of experimentation" by secret government agents. Mysterious victim "infected with a cancerous, terminal disease." Victim escapes to take revenge, "mentally subjugating" his captors and keying in a "self-destruct fail-safe."

Page 3 & 4:
Major battle between 2 powerful forces leaves victors w/o cure for disease.

Page 5 to 7:
Tragic news trumped by worldwide reports of mysterious invaders. The usual contingencies are unable to avert the danger: a "deadly mystery that must be answered soon should mankind hope to survive." Fail-safe thought to be a "summons" of some kind.

Page 8 to 10:
Two familiar teams of heroes investigate the same mysterious location and stumble on a master plan for revenge.

Page 11 to 13:
One sudden crisis averted, both teams "jump" into a new mystery.

Page 14 to 15:
Back story detailing strained relationship with one hero’s true love, left behind to protect her "from the truth." She longs for him, even knowing "that one way or another...we'll be together forever."

Page 16 to 18:
Heroes arrive disoriented on a distant world, on the other side of the space/time portal. Mental faculties and powers scrambled; change in laws of physics. Ravaged ecosystem noticed on trek to distant "citadel."

Page 19 to 24:
One team is ambushed; rescued by the other. Heroes sort out identities; powers swapped. Pre-cognizant abilities materialize.

Page 25 to 28:
Arrival at desolate citadel. Large statue: "clearly a religious icon of some sort. some idol of lost worship." Discovery of skeletons in large chamber. Creature carcasses look like large insects. Bees? Dying priest creature utters mysterious words before dying.

Page 29 to 40:
Both teams reunite to track down source of trouble. "Mother alien" encountered. Fierce battle ensues. "Psychic vibrations" uncover "enormous groupmind" / collective consciousness. One disabled hero's loud philosophical musing about self-awareness/mortality/accountablity/repentance/suffering/communication in life severely pains the mother alien prompting it to flee.

Page 41 to End:
"Psychic vibes" resolve lingering questions. Heroes return to Earth through exit portals with powers and health restored on the other side. Everyone is reconciled. Happy Sappy Ending.

[Vaibhav]

@ my-2-cents
The blog where the Lost "Set" photograph is, is just some guy acting wacky... the Marvin Candle/Wickman photos are fine but I don't think you're supposed to take those "set" pics seriously... :)

@Robert & John:
I am a bit disappointed with this podcast guys... no theorising at all!?

[my-2-cents]

Some further random analysis about the comic book part 2.
Flash # 2's name is Wally. Does that relate to WALT's appearances in the jungle, appearing and disappearing "in a flash." Flash # 1 is dying/weakened/disabled until he travels back through the mysterious portal. Locke is disabled until he reaches the island. What did he pass through? Further, in his upcoming flashback, will we learn Locke had some other mysterious ability like Walt until an accident/car crash/something left him disabled and despondent? "I've been a flash since I was a boy." Is Ben aware of such a hidden ability of Locke's? Will Cooper be seen in such a flashback driving the same car that:
(1) ran Michael over?
(2) sideswiped the Marshall's car in Kaste's horse episode?
(3) bumped into Locke in the parking lot at the the toy store?
Anyone else we know involved in the same "accident"? Further, Locke's training of Walt to throw knives seems similar to Flash # 1 mentoring Flash # 2. "Wallyisms" are a similar gag to Sawyerisms on LOST. Does Flash #2's (?) disorientation relate to Desmond's mind-blowing transcendent experience? Possible foreshadowing of Desmond/Penny love story. Similarities between smoke monster and creatures/invaders unleashed onto the earth. Does Ben want to unleash the smoke monster on the outside world the way Alien X unleashed the alien hordes on the earth as revenge? If he really is one of "the good guys," maybe he's trying to prevent an unseen enemy from unleashing the Smoke Monster on the rest of the world.

my-2-cents

[Vaibhav]

@Robert & John:
Well, "no theorising" is certainly too harsh.. but I was hoping for more of a discussion on Mikhail's history and its implications wrt the history of Dharma/Others/Hostiles...

[my-2-cents]

@ Vaibhav

The "guy acting wacky" (from http://themisfitishere.blogspot.com ) clearly does this to entertain as well as inform. Yes, his deliberate tongue-in-cheek presentations with wild misspellings and hair-brain postulations should be taken with a grain of salt. That's part of his hook to attract visitors to his blog & create discussion. Admittedly, I used to be annoyed when links would land me on his blog. But looking through some of his blog archives, it's clear he has a great inside source in Oahu, and a few (a FEW!) of his funnier posts will leave most people in stitches. Certain spoiler photos & sparse original insights of his really do strike gold. It's enough to keep me checking his blog from time to time.

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

About the idea of doing a podcast right after an episode... I think it would be a good idea to do and then the following podcast you could spend half of it going over all the commenting on the boards and lost links and the other half revisiting the bigger series wide theories. We haven't had any podcast discussions in a while talking about the overall storyline and what the end game might be.

[Shma]

Im getting a "the mummy" feeling over this.
ThiUtters are sorta the secret society guarding the secrets of the island. Like in the movie the mummy. Dharma is looking for the big treasures on the island and a war between in witch (based on the previews) noone wins and dharma isolate themself on one side of the island, thanks to their big fence building technology.

the others have been on the island so long the effects of the Magnetic hulabandula and whatever more secrets that effect them have made them get juliet for example as they cannot get children of their own to keep guarding the island. etc etc.

Smokey is not a utthers 'thing', i believe it to be dharma controlled device capable of penetrating their own security.

As u can see, there are close to no holes in my theory. Right... made it up as i wrote it. However the point was i still get the "the mummy" feeling.. but seeing how bad fathers are in this series the writers surely made it more of a "the duddy" twist.

Still tho, im swedish... what the hell do i know. 8)

[Cihan]

I think we should call them the Udders.

[Jamie (c)]

I can't wait to see a flash back for Smokey. That would be an epic episode.

Smokey was working at a coal burning generator in Pennsylvania when it saw an ad in the local paper to join Darhma and change the world...

[Mark B]

Things that come to mind while listening to the podcast …..

Spring '08 start for S4. That'll be a 7 month hiatus from mid-May '07 to mid-Jan '08. That's a long time, 28 weeks or so. What are they going to do to fill the time and keep people interested ? Nothing ? Lost Experience II ? That’s time enough to watch the first 3 seasons back-to-back (about three episodes a week) which will make it OK, I suppose.

Was Mikhail (and maybe Danielle and Ethan) in Dharma and post-Purge they were brainwashed to forget that they were ? Is this why Mikhail wrote on the documents about Afghanistan "My name in Andreev" ? Is the brainwashing wearing off ? Problem with this is that if they have been brainwashed, who else has amongst the Others. This would lead to a bit of a 'get out clause' for the writers. Maybe all the Others, even Ben, are Dharma and it's all some bizarre experiment. Don't think so but maybe Mikhail was.

I'm sure Kelvin was Dharma, he didn't fall for the sickness scam but he believed in the hostiles, or appeared to.

I don't think the Incident is the Purge. I've always thought the incident was a single one off, well, incident, but the purge sounds more like an ongoing conflict more like terrorist type attacks than an all out war.

I like the idea that Mikhail (and others/hostiles == hosters, hothers, othtiles) kept the Dharma folk on the mainland thinking that everything is OK on the island and now Locke entered 7 7 they will send people to find out what is going on. A way to bring in a third set of characters -- the bad guys ?

I'm not 100% sure that Locke blew up the Flame by entering 7 7. My main reason for thinking this is that if the hostiles are attacking and are about to break into the Flame to get the place to blow-up you have to play the computer at chess, win, then enter 7 7. It's just going to take too long. But then it's a bit of a contrived way to get a message out as well. Could Klugh have set off the explosives ? From her later conversation in Russian she would not have cared if she and Mikhail died, and she was down in the basement alone for some time. Long enough to set some timer off.

I like the idea of an "Initial Reaction" podcast, though I think your niche in the LOST podcasting world is the in-depth post-episode analysis. Not sure which episode I'd choose, maybe the Locke or Juliett centric one.

The Nikki/Paulo episode may not be too bad. Come on give them a chance. Cuse and Lindeloff keep telling us we're going to be cross with ourselves when we find out about them because we invested so much time is disliking them and that they have a central part to play. Perhaps they work for Dharma, maybe this is a game changer. They were being sent to the island to investigate what is happening, either on the plane (risky) or they did an 'Ethan/Goodwin' from the Dharma side of the island (if there is such a place). That idea is probably way off but it's fun to speculate.

Perhaps you could do a "commentary podcast" where you could add a commentary that ran in time with the episode. I'm sure you could get people to pause their DVRs whilst you spent a long time talking about a single frame of action !!!! Some 'dead-air' time whilst we just watched would be OK.

[Jamie (c)]

@ Mark B - you got me thinking about Klugh and the explosion of the Flame.

1) Did she REALLY get killed?
2) I mean did they check her and bury the body or just leave it lying there?
3) Might they (Klugh and Mikhail) have been ready for this, staged the shooting and then blown the Flame to keep the Losties from moving in like they did the hatch? "Those guys from that plane are like roaches..."

And I'm convinced that Sayid didn't know the woman but reached a point in his captivity where he accepted his responsibility in ALL the tortures they did.

So when he said he knew her, he was speaking metaphorically. (I think someone else mentioned this)

As for the "instant podcast" - it's worth a try but it certainly will reduce your research time so one would have to assume it will shorten the podcasts even further.

I can hear it now – “Wow, that was a cool episode.” “Yeah, I dug it wish Matt was here.” “Yeah…well Stay Lost” (cut to music)

[waitingforlost]

I think we are meant to assume Klugh is dead and the lack of checking the body/burial is just exposition that does not need to be there. Someone is shot in the chest -- they die.

If Klugh/Mikhail blew-up the Flame as they didn't want the Losties getting in it seems childish. "It's my hatch and you can't play in it !" They may have blown it up to destroy the satellite and thus prevent the Losties communicating with the outside world or even to destroy the documents but not out of spite.

Don't think it's a big deal if Sayid tortured THAT woman or not. Fact is he was sorry for his torturing of either her and the rest of the people he tortured or just the rest of the people. Doesn't make much difference to me.

[Cihan]

Woah, I just found out the actor that plays Xerxes in 300 is actually...Paulo.

Still cant believe it.

[ebonX]

Just listened to the podcast and read thru the discussion section ...

LOST Timeline (Enterr 77 = Dec. 7, 2004) is from the Lostpedia timeline ...

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Timeline:December_2004

@jg/waitingforlost - I actually think jg's theory about the immortality of the Others may be correct ... I keep remembering a conversation I had with a friend about his scientific explaination for how the Old Testament characters lived so long (Noah - 950yrs, Isaac - 130yrs, Jacob 147, etc.) ... see excerpt from Wikipedia below ...

"Noah died 350 years after the Flood, at the age of 950, the last of the immensely long-lived antediluvian Patriarchs. The human lifespan diminishes rapidly thereafter, from as much as 900 years to the 120 years of Moses within just a few generations."

This really leads me to the theory that the island is Eden, Atlantis, Shambhala, etc. (choose the mysterious ancient place that fits). Now, I don't know if island time is different in relation to the rest of the world, but I can support the idea that the Others (or at least the true Others, Ben, Jacob, etc.) may be immortal.

Sayid's Flashback - I think whether Sayid actually tortured the woman or not is inconsequential ... They used each other to bring closure for the pain, guilt, etc. they had experienced. Now, imho I do not believe Sayid personally tortured that lady, but he confessed to her to give her and himself closure to that chapter in their lives.

Danielle - I am still on the Danielle is an Other ship ... In addition to her actions when they find the Flame station, at the end of the ep, she tries to influence Sayid into killing Mikhail (which is what he wants).

Purge = Incident - If Mikhail's timeline is to be believed, these 2 events are not the same ... The "Incident" occurred in the early-80s (according to the Orientation videos), while the "Purge" reached its conclusion ~10 years ago (mid-90's - according to Mikhail's arrival to the island) ... My crackpot theory about the "Incident" right now is that the "Incident" was the realization (by DHARMA) of the power of faith on the island ... If you believe it, it will come true ... i.e. the belief by the DHARMA agents stationed in the Swan Hatch believing that they are saving the world from some unknown danger is the actual thing that creates the danger on the island.

I like the idea of an "Initial Reactions" podcast ... It could be a great starting pt for discussions for the weekend broadcast --> Episode Recap and Pts. of Discussion during the week, with LOST Links, Discussion of Ep., etc. on the weekend ... That's be awesome, if you guys have the time to do it.

[Jamie (c)]

@ waitingforlost: "Someone is shot in the chest -- they die."

Not with that caliber of gun, if they're wearing Kevlar. Sure the writers can take short cuts in the exposition of the show but when they do it it leads to this sort of speculation.

I mean who here hasn’t seen some film / show where someone was shot and presumed dead only to not have been? Maybe we should go Back to the Future and examine that angle? ;)

As for their motives to blow up the Flame, did I make it sound like they did it for childish reasons? Sorry, didn't mean to. 'They' did it because they didn't want the Losties to gain control of the flame like they did the hatch.

As to your point about Sayid, I agree. It doesn't matter when he lied, he is repentant now - but didn't we already know that? So this as a reinforcing flashback used to introduce a cat mystery? :)

I guess part of me wants to believe Sayid was telling the truth when he said he wouldn't (and didn't) torture a woman.

BTW- Did I misunderstand the concept of the 'initial reaction' podcast? Would there be two podcasts that week? The IR one and the Sunday go to meeting one? That could be interesting but man talk about doubling the boy's work load.

[waitingforlost]

@ebonX

What was the scientific theory behind Noah et al living so long then ?

I was not "arguing" with jg's theory that the Others are immortal or very long living or time passes very slowly on the island compared to off island just his link of time on the show to time in our world.

In fact I quite like the idea -- it's all a bit Narnia-ish when the kids find the wardrobe after years of living in Narnia and hardly any time has passed in the real world.

[Cihan]

I get the feeling its hard enough making one podcast a week for these guys. I say leave it as it is, the point of this podcast is that these guys research stuff before yapping on about it, you know the whole 'we read the forums so you dont have to' deal?

[waitingforlost]

@Jamie (c)

Yes Klugh could be alive but so far in LOST everyone who gets shot in the chest dies. *Thinks* maybe Sawyer got shot in the chest but I think it was the shoulder. Everyone else shot in the chest died it seems to be a given on the show.

As Mark B and you say Ms. Klugh could have blown up the Flame for a number of reasons. Sorry I probably misread your post.

Two podcasts a week, how Jay and Jack. I was assuming just the one in the week thus freeing up the Lostcasters for a podcast free weekend or the initial one could be a real short one, say 20-30 mins leaving plenty of scope for a longer cast at the weekend or not.

[alex's slingshot]

KCRW's "The Treatment" has a recent podcast out in which they interview Cuse and Lindelof. It's pretty good. What I found most interesting is Cuse's explanation of if and when we'll see what happens to Michael and Walt (definitely not this season, but he seems confident we'll get back to it). He adds that we're taking such a long break from their storyline for a reason that will be obvious when we'll get back to it, and he rambles on about how young boys tend to grow significantly and the story is started in real time, but now we're 3 years ahead of the Losties. So I guess they really are taking into account the believability of Walt and his height and maybe the show will have travelled forward in time or something by the time we get back to those two?

[ebonX]

@waitingforlost - I believe the idea was that the environment/atmosphere of the Earth Pre-Flood was very much different than it was after it (assuming that today's environment is a natural progression of a post-flood world) ... or something to that effect.

[jg]

Whereas I enjoy complexity, I need to wield Occam’s razor frequently while watching Lost lest I be driven mad. Therefore:
Klugh is dead,
Locke did cause the station to incinerate,
Ben is Alex’s adoptive father,
Sayid did torture that lady.

I forgot about the Narnia-time plot device.
Thanks
jg

[Cihan]

@ Alex's slingshot: Thats exactly what I wanted to hear, the series skipping ahead in time, nice.

Unless they make the characters age unnaturally, in which case...not so nice.

[Mark B]

Couple of things:

1. If the sickness is not real then Danielle is lying about at least one thing. Everyone in her party getting sick and her killing them or them dying. If she lied about that she's probably lying about something else as well. Alex ?

2a. Timeline alteration by jumping forward a number of years is the best way to solve the Walt aging dilema. Also this would give the writers the opening to have more flashbacks for the characters for the 'lost' time. Ideal place to do this is end of S3 with the tsunami hitting the island and the start of S4.

2b. Another way to age Walt is to have time off island moving faster than on and have Micheal and Walt come back to the island from the mainland with Penny -- back to jg's theory. Which is VERY Narnia and in my opinion a bit of a cop out given it's been used before and is slightly "and they all lived happily ever after".

[jg]

My theory is actually the inverse of Narnia. The real world is passing much faster. Thus maybe the outcome would be the inverse of "they lived happily ever after": tragic irony.
Cheers
jg

[Jamie (c)]

@ jg - reverse Narnia = Neverland (the one without Jako)

[frankmorris]

I think Michael will do something noble, as a some sort of redemption, but I don't think they make it home. I put my money on yet another island.

[HobbitOnHeroine]

Check out my ingenius flashback idea: http://bryanphelps.com/

[jg]

@Jamie,
Neverland...time...an island...strange 'goings on'...Wow.
As interesting as the place was, it always seemed pathetic and creepy.
Thanks
jg

[waitingforlost]

Sneek peaks for Par Avion and centricity of future episodes can be found here ....

WARNING WARNNING WARNING THERE ARE SOME SERIOUS SPOILERS HERE AS WELL AND I MEAN SERIOUS. PHOTOS OF FUTURE EPISODES (inc. Nikki/Paulos episode)

http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/

To avoid spoilers go to the link then close your eyes and scroll down for 10 seconds then open your eyes and start scrolling up until you find the sneek peeks.

[jg]

Tick tock, Ben, tick tock

[ObviouslyBored]

I wonder which one occurs at a greater rate...

What's-his-name saying "interesting."

or

Damon Lindelof saying "You know."

[Mark B]

Aaaaarrrrrggggghhhh my eyes no not SPOILERS.

BTW there is yet another snee peek at the same site as 'waiting' links to that is at the very top no need to scroll down. Some interesting Kate-Sayid-Locke interaction you know. (Get your minds out of the gutter you sick sick people). If we get anymore sneek peaks there will be nothing left to see in the episode.

[alex's slingshot]

@ Cihan

yeah i think the time jump thing would be great too, that's the only possible explanation i can gather from Cuse's reasoning. I wonder, though, if the whole story (including the remaining Islanders and the Others) will move forward in time as well, or if it will be as someone suggested a case of the "real" world time going faster than island time.

What I think could theoretically be awesome, depending on how they attempt it, is if we skip ahead in the story to what's going on right now (2007), leaving blank what happens at a certain point (when the tsunami hits?) to where we find the Losties today. Then those flashbacks would be filling in island-story (a la The Other 48 Days, Maternity Leave and Three Minutes) instead of before-the-crash story. I like having flashbacks, but for some characters like Jack and Kate, I just think an island flashback would be more interesting and add more depth to the characters since it could also advance island mystery and plot and let us see if our beloved characters have evolved or returned to old habits. And there probably would be very few filler episodes...

I don't know, I actually thing the producers would be happy to give us another four Kate-centric episodes of her running from the law, but just maybe they're preparing a new technique for next year... The Desmond episode certainly gave them a ton of possibilities to play with so I hope they get creative.

[jump-or-run]

SPOILER COMMENT ABOUT THIS WEEKS PREVIEW

Apparently the buzz on the Fuselage is trying to see if Locke pushes Mikhail or he runs into the fence ....

Make your guess now ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp_474lhpTw

END SPOILER

[col_mustard]

Looks like Locke silenced our captive. Maybe he also entered 77 to destroy key intel. Locke still remains a very suspicious character.........

[Jamie (c)]

@ col mustard, trust not the clever edits of a preview.

[Miss Scarlet]

As all the Kings men said to all the Kings horses "Looks like he was pushed to me"

[Jamie (c)]

Maybe, but it's an odd gallop style run(stumble?) forward in that preview, almost looks like he broke free from Locke's grip.

[my-2-cents]

Episode 18's title "D.O.C" probably stands for "Date Of Conception." This fits logically with the idea that we're supposed to find out who Sun's Baby's Daddy is. Or, you might have some fun theorizing based on these other D.O.C. acronyms:

62 common meanings for D.O.C. here:

http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?Acronym=doc&string=exact

And 250 more definitions here;
"Date of Conception" is listed 24th:

http://www.acronymattic.com/results.aspx?q=doc

Or else ask Vincent the D-O-G.
He seems to know everything!

my-2-cents

[Joop]

John...JOHN...

Humpty Dumpty was pushed.

[col_mustard]

We just need more clues!

[Prof Plum]

The Russian did it.

Locke is trying to stop him. Sayid calls "John John" to alert Locke. The "push" is Mikhail yanking himself free of Johns desparing grasp. Typical promo. Looks like a good episode mind -- other than the Claire "Bird Woman of Craphole Island" stuff.

[frankmorris]

It looks like Locke is lifting him by the collar rather than pulling him. He also has a menacing grimace rather than a WTF look on his face.

But then Michail has plenty of room to catch his balance, looks like a deliberate run.

It could go either way.

Place your bets.

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

I don't want them to do time jumps. They don't always work. I hated it on BSG. I hated it in Castaway. Besides if we think the wigs are bad for the flashbacks, what do you think they will be like for the flashforwards?

Okay..this is just funny: http://defamer.com/hollywood/lost/the-one-where-hurley-and-sawyer-adopt-a-pet-duck-243655.php

If Lost were a comedy...

[Mark B]

Given that the original premise for LOST was a cross between Survivor and Castaway I am expecting a time jump (as well as some post-rescue on mainland scenes). I kind of hope they do a time jump but only if it's done well. It could be really tacky. Like alexs slingshot wrote it would be a way to have a different angle on flaskbacks. I wonder if next season we'll get to see more off island scenes, perhaps an off island flashback to the day after the crash with all the familes reactions being shown. I'm guessing Penny is the only one with enough money to raise a private search operation once the official one ends.

The hair will be OK .. Kate will open a salon 8-)

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

My whole thing with the flashforwards is being able to believe what has happened in the time we didn't see. Like in Castaway (Umm..Spoiler if you haven't seen it), I didn't buy that Helen Hunt would have gotten married so quickly. She was hesitant before about and she was in love with Tom Hanks whom she dated for four years, but in the span of two years - she gives up on him, remarries someone she just meets and has a kid? I just didn't buy it.

[Joop]

lol. Kirk Cameron as the smoke monster...I Knew it!

[Cihan]

I think if done right, a time jump would hit viewers in a very striking way at the beginning of season 4. Characters we've grown to love will suddenly be very different for unknown reasons, Jack might have an eyepatch, Sawyer become a leader, whatever, it simply ties in with the genre of the show, MYSTERY! The flashback structure needs a kick up the arse, and with the time jump, we'll get flashbacks of how the characters ended up this way. I would like it personally, but I understand why others wouldnt. The issue still stands though, these flashbacks are getting tiring. I think we can all agree that overall, season 1 has the best flashbacks, because there was stuff to say and reveal about these characters, but there can only be so much until the writers start coming up with stupid things or plain old filler.

Having said all that though, its important to remember that the entire point of the flashbacks is to coincide with what is happening in the present on the island, contrasting the character of the past with the new, so flashbacks dont have to reveal anything drastically new, they just have to comment on the present.

I'm just going in circles now.

[Mark B]

Was it really only 2 years Hanks was on the island alone I thought it was like 4 or 5. But still I get your point.

It would be odd to see say, Sawyer and Nikki together with a baby in the opening scences of season 4. But then you'd have the WTF and loads of scope for flashbacks.

[Tahir]

Some of Losts actors in major films at the mo...

Paulo is in 300.
Tom/Zeke is in Wild Hogs.
Goodwin is in Ghostrider.

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

I checked. You're right. It was four years. She had been married for two which is what I was thinking. Still doesn't seem like enough time to me. I just remember being thrown out of the movie thinking about it.

[Jamie (c)]

::Season 4 Spoilers::

We jump 4 years into the future, The Losties have won their long war with the Hostiles and now rule Lostvegas islands (President Ford picked the name.)

A giant rogue wave washes a small expedition's ship ashore on Jackatraz (the work island) and now find themselves suffering from the same fate the Losties did in the first 3 seasons, only at now at the hand of Sheriff Kate and her slingshot toting posse.

Oh and Penelope Widmore is amongst the newsters (what we'll call them) but Desi is no where to be found. He's stuck in a mobius flashback loop inside the remains of the old hatch.

::Spoiler off::

Yes...I'm stoned. Why you axe ;)

[jg]

@ col. mustard (et al)
Your comment of Locke as a suspicious character has made me wonder about his “Game”. For that matter what is the “game” of each character. We may take for granted that the survivors of flight 815 want to be rescued. I don’t think Locke or Kate would want to be “saved”. How about Sawyer? How about Sun & Jin?

Perhaps we could study the characters incentives. If one knows the incentives of the Players, one can make reasonable predictions. (See: “Freakonomics- A Rogue Economist Explores The Hidden Side Of Everything” by Levitt and Dubner). Or maybe we just don’t know their incentives.

I patiently await your commentaries or derision.

Thanks
jg

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

Aside from Michael and Desmond has anyone really talked about wanting to leave? Aside from the usual grumblings of missing home and shelter and such. No one really has a need to go back to their lives. Jack's big rush was to go to his dad's funeral, but since the body is missing that kind of kills that. (no pun intended). Sun and Jin were running away already. Kate was captured. Claire was going to give up her baby (moot point now). Charlie couldn't get the band back together. Sawyer didn't have anywhere to be. Hurley would be going back to the curse. Locke might be going back to a wheelchair. Rose back to cancer. I forget why Sayid was headed there - was it to see Nadia? So the island for all its trouble seems like its better than what they had going.

[col_mustard]

@jg

We need to study the goals and objectives of the main characters in order to unlock the mystery of the Island. Once you know what each character's goal and objective is then many of the other mysteries will fall into place. The clues are in the "back stories" and that's why this technique is used in the show.
I have to run now, more later.............

Col Mustard

[jg]

@kathy
Thats what I'm sayin...incentives.
John Locke,"Hey Ben, can I come play with you?"
cheers
jg

[Mark B]

WARNING CONTAINS A SPOILER ABOUT THE NEXT EPISODE

Other than Kate, Locke and Rose I don't see why the rest wouldn't want off the island.

Des : to get to Penny

Sun and Jin : sorted their issues and can go back to Korea or nip off to USA. May be better off staying to avoid Mr Paik

Hurley : has he "killed" the curse ? Does he believe it anymore ? He was planning on giving away the money.

Charlie : to get away from his curse and to stay with Claire

Claire : well she has her baby and is about to gain a SPOILER step-brother SPOILER END and family perhaps that's enough

Jack : he seems to have ended his obsession with his ex-wife so back to normal life

Sayid : to get to Nadia

Juliet : wants off

Sawyer : not sure does he still want to get the real Sawyer ?

Nikki/Paulo : don't know enough about them yet

Everyone : to make loads of money selling their stories.

[jg]

@Mark B
Wow. Thanks.
Sawyer: A cold blooded murderer. Is he, or will he be "on the lam"?

@col. mustard
I guess I will pay more attention to the back stories. But, could we cull info on the charaters here to objectify possible incentives.
jg

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

But aside from Juliet, Sayid and Desmond, those aren't really reasons to risk life and limb to get back to.

Sun and Jin are going to have problems with her dad. He's not going to just let them stay in the states.

Hurley - the numbers may still be cursed. God knows what he could be getting abck to.

Charlie - whose to say he could avoid the curse by leaving the island? He has no income or home. How could he provide for Claire and Aaron?

Jack - is still going back to a life where his dad is dead, his mom is probably going to blame him for that and his ex-wife is fraking another man.

Sawyer - Would go back to looking for the real Sawyer and grifting. He didn't seem to really like that life.

None of that really seems like something I'd want to get back to.

As for selling their stories, have you ever read a book called "Haunted" by Chuck Pahlinuk? It's about a group of people that find themselves in a difficult situation and they go out of their way to make it worse to be able to be more famous when they get foundand sell their stories.

[Mark B]

Sun and Jin could make it happen in Korea, esp. if Jin is the daddy. I imagine Mr Paik is a "my grandson" type and would move Jin up the company and would forget Suns affair.

Charlie : now he's kicked the habit he could start a solo career or get a new band. He'd probably be the one to do best from the "return from the dead" side of it.

Hurley : he may have dented the curse if not broken it and his plan was to give away all the money which he believes would remove the curse. If his Dad hasn't blown it all already.

Jack could well be "over" his ex-issues. Yes he'd still have his Mum to screw-up his life. But I think she'd just be pleased to have him back he was clearly #1 son in a.... perhaps. Depends what happens with the Others Jack may have more reason to stay but if he does get it on with Juliet and she wants to get back then he may go.

Sawyer I'll give you. He's nothing to go back to and if Kate stays he could well stay.

If a boat showed up tomorrow I'd reckon they'd all go bar Locke, Sawyer and Kate. Bernard would try to convince Rose to stay but she'd go.

Not read "Haunted".

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

If a boat showed up tomorrow, yes I'd give you that those people would get on it. But if they came up with a daring plan that might be dangerous, I don't think they are that motivated to get themselves off the island.

Haunted is worth checking out if you like Chuck's writing (he wrote Fight Club). There is a side-story in there that will stay with me to the grave and actually has caused people to faint when he's read it outloud at book readings.

[Mark B]

THIS CONTAAINS SOME SPOILERS

I don't recall anyone bar Micheal actually coming up with a plan to leave. He did it twice, first time on the raft, second time by getting Ben back. Jack seemed keen to get off the island when he was on Alcatraz going to operate on Ben but that was a scam. Claire comes up with a plan in the next episode if the sneak peeks are real. I think Bernard may have been the last person to try with his HELP in stones. Sayid tried to get the transponder working in, I think, the Pilot.

As you say no one seems that motivated to get off the island.

Not sure I like the idea of reading something that caused people to pass out.

[waitingforlost]

New Official podcast is out .....

[col_mustard]

@jg

One technique is to construct a Time Event Chart, Association Matrix, Activities Matrix and Link Diagram.

These four products, used together, are critical to the process of transforming diverse and incomplete bits of seemingly unrelated data into an understandable overview
of an exceedingly complex situation.

Basically, you put large amounts of HUMINT in graphic form.

The "timeline" (Time Event Chart) idea that one of the posters put forth is helpful and on track, especially if each character's actions are inserted where appropriate. However, one needs to focus on the individuals and their actions/reactions in relation to the Time Event Chart in order to get at their motives, goals and objectives.

Finally, the answers could be revealed in the Link Diagram.

Col Mustard

[jg]

@col. mustard
Dear Colonel,
I did pretty well in Physical Chemistry, I think I understand calculus and have memorized the Krebs cycle 4 times but,…. I have no idea of what you just posted. Is this concept something that you could email to John, Robert and Matt so that they can digest this and give us a link to the appropriate diagrams, charts, star tables, or …whatever…

It would actually be pretty cool. But then again I’m a nerd.

Thanks

jg

[the buzzkill cometh]

I know their has been a lot of speculation about the tsunami hitting the island come 26th December, but how exactly is this possible?

The tsunami originated from an earthquake off the coast of Aceh, Indonesia and then spread westward across the Indian Ocean. Sri Lanka was hit pretty bad and i believe there were reports that it also hit the east coast of Africa. How then do we explain the tsunami hitting the LOST island which we are undoubtedly aware is in the Pacific Ocean? I can't remember hearing anything about Fiji, or Tahiti, Vanuatu, or any other Pacific islands being damaged by the Boxing Day tsunami.

While it would be great for the island to be hit by the tsunami, i think it is a pretty big stretch on the writers behalf to have the tsunami this far east of where it originated. They could of course make up another completely different tsunami to suit their purpose, but to me that wouldn't fit right. Does anyone else have more definitive knowledge of the Boxing Day tsunami?

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

@ col mustard - Wow that sounds like homework. And in the immortal words of Barbie "Math is hard."

@buzzkill - It might not need to be a tidal wave. I just know as a result of the tsunami, here in LA we got a solid week of rain or so the week afterward. At least the weatherman said that was the reason for all the rain.

[col_mustard]

@jg

The process I mentioned is basic "Intel 101". I can't provide a link because my sources are my personal hard copy Gov manuals.

There could be some OSINT on the process that you could use, however, I haven't really looked.

The process is time intensive. One way to reduce the workload is to have several people work on it simultaneously. Each individual would be "assigned" to one main character, only focusing on that character's point of view and construct the products from that one character's perspective. In essence becoming an "expert" on that one character. The Link Diagram puts it all together.

In simple terms, made popular by the news media, you would "connect the dots". However, it's not really the best description of the process in a fluid situation. The most accurate description of the process is a "mosaic".

A small team could solve the Lost mystery well before the series ends.

@aka Fangirl

It's more art than science.

[waitingforlost]

@Buzzkill,

From Lospedias Timeline section (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Pre-crash_timeline)

"Note: It is also possible that the plane may have been flying West rather than East. In this case, the Island would be located near East Africa, placing the crash at 4:16 PM local time and explaining the drug smugglers plane and the timestamp in the log printout."

This is a huge sretch as TPTB have always said that the plane came down somewhere in the Pacific not Indian Ocean.

The only other thing I can think of is that the pilot was wrong about how far off course they were and they had flown roughly NE out of Sydney towards LA then turned roughly 150 degreess towards Indonesia. Of course he'd have to be wrong about the length of time flown too. It's all a stretch.

[waitingforlost]

Sorry link above does not work --- drop the bracket at the end or use

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Pre-crash_timeline

[jg]

@col. mustard
Sounds fascinating. I would take a character. Or perhaps we could have character “ganglia” of 3-4 experts that could develop the incentive profiles. (3-4 people since I’m assuming most of us have jobs and other activities).

I hope it wouldn’t spoil the show. It is a pretty good ride just the way it is.

Cheers
jg

[ebonX]

Happy LOST Day everyone ...

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20014892,00.html

[SMKGrl]

Yippee...it's finally LOST day!!

Totally looking forward to tonight's episode. Let's hope for a mind-blowing experience!

[alex's slingshot]

isn't it odd that of the two (two!) claire-centric episodes we've ever had, only ONE was a real flashback that shed light on her pre-island life... and that was in s1. i think it's high time claire's character gets developed, and i hope tonight's epi. does the trick.

i just realized that of the original lostaways she's the one we know the least about. Even the dead tailies AL and Eko got at least two off-island flashbacks (Eko got three!). I guess Boone only had one flashback, but he's dead, plus he's been in other flashbacks and fantasy sequences.

Do you think that this "surprise connection" between two losties (allegedly claire and jack) was known since the beginning thus giving the producers a better reason to keep claire's story in the shadows, just for a big reveal like (hopefully) tonight?

[Mike in the Box]

honestly i hope that we are being mislead to think that jack is claire's brother. the fact that we all basically think that he is is cause for me to wonder if we are being misled. maybe it will turn out that charlie is her brother,

i just don't want the episode to reveal things to us that we already know (speculate to be true). i hope there is a real twist to it.