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Each week we analyze the mysteries, theories and speculation surrounding the show. LOSTCasts is hosted by John Keehler, Robert Stone and Matt Jones.

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Season 2 Podcasts

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Comments

David

Love the podcast; keep up the great work!

Stay Lost!

Craig

Downloading as I type :) Appreciate the timing, makes it easier for us in the UK to download.

Congratulations to Matt and family :D

Cihan

Congratulations Matt! Great news, and I wish you and your family health and happiness!

Painki11er

top 3! lol great podcast

Pelle

great episode as always!!.... yeah right, like he didn't chose claire as the name for his baby girl after his obsession with goth-claire! lol
PEEAACCEE!

Jealous_Guy

I didn't think you were gonna play that silly phone call! Guess I didn't sound as stupid as I remember myself sounding when I first made it though :D

It's that spring fever season, I know the coughin' feeling. You are true troopers for getting a great cast out to us anyway, so thank you for giving me yet another excuse to stay up past my bedtime!

I agree with Tasha, he didn't blow the sub. He just wants the Others to think it's blown up, this could give the Lostaways a "sub"stantial advantage!

And last but not least, Congrats to Matt!

Tahir

Thanks for another great podcast.
Congratulations to Matt.
Good to hear Tasha views.

One thing - I followed that link to the painting in Bens house and as soon as I saw it I said "Thats Sun".
To me it looks more like an older version of Sun than Juliet or Karen De Groot.

Cihan

Good podcast by John and Tasha.

1] Regarding the forums: We've debated the pros and cons alot, and I dont really mind either way, but I think it would actually be harder for you to read our comments if they're spread out over threads, as opposed to them all being grouped here in this talkback.

2] About the whole sub sinking thing, I'm 60% on it not being blown up, and I hope we'll find out in the next episode, rather than it be some kind of ongoing unanswered question (like we dont have enough!)

3] LOL @ hamster in picture debate.

jamie mollart

Congrats!

Finally feel like lost is back on track again.

Dedicated Listener

Wow, I think I speak for all listeners when I say that Tasha is horrendous. Please never have her on the podcast again. The rest of you guys are great. Keep it up.

War Xerxes getting killed off in the next episode.

MarkN

Walt And "The Box" Theory

Came up with this idea, thought I'd throw it out there. "The Box" was descrived in this episode as being a phrnomena which allowed you to materialise a thought into physical reality. This reminded of Walts special ability. There have been numerous instances where Walt was able to manifest his subconscious desire into a tangible form. At the end of season two, Ben talks with Michael and says that they got more than they bargained for when they kidnapped Walt. As we know the Others are not ones to let anyone go who they consider to be useful to their plans. If they are reluctant to let Jack and Juliette leave why were they so relaxed about letting someone with Walts obvious abilities return home? My theory is that the Others discovered a way to be able to reproduce Walts special ability and this became the proverbial "Box" that Ben is talking about. This idea works for me because it explains why Walt was no longer needed and also avoids introducing a completely new mythological aspect to the show at this stage of the proceedings. Would love to get some feedback on this. Thanks for the show guys. Congrats to Matt.
MarkN

static

We actually knew Jack played piano...him and Sarah played it in the hotel before their wedding. I don't recall the episode.

I think the island didn't spare Boone because he was a sacrifice the island demanded. :P

Stay LOST!

Jeff Croft

> Wow, I think I speak for all listeners when I say that Tasha is horrendous.

Exactly what makes you think you can speak for all listeners?

Joop

Remember how far Othersville is from shore. http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l213/riverfr0zen/lost_other.jpg
Even w/ Alex as guide that's some pretty hairy terrain to negotiate at night, not to mention the sonic fence. Did Alex take Locke through the tunnels? Just a thought.

@ Tasha, thanks for filling in.

@ Matt, congratulations...I'm sure baby Claire will have her share of daddy issues. :)

Lmnop

@Dedicated Listener

you dont speak for me, and i think tasha is great.

Rok

dedicated listener, always speak for yourself, and no one else. it's a handy thing to keep in mind, both here and everywhere in life.

Kathy aka Fangirl

I love when my comments make it in the podcast. Thanks!

I'd like to speak for everyone when I say no one should speak for everyone. Make them "I" statements. Remember the immortal words of Daffy Duck "I I I, me me me, mine mine mine."

Hope John feels better and glad to hear little Claire is in the world.

JackedupLockedown

@MARKN

I think Walt's abilities and the "box", be it metaphorical or tangible, are defiantly related. However, as I see it they could not have created the box from Walt because they had the box before the plane crashed as referenced when Ben says "two days after I find out I have a tumor a spinal surgeon falls out of the sky." Unless that was a lie he told Jack.

@ IN GENERAL

I think Walt has the same ability that "him" has and that the Island has (perhaps the Island is the source of their ability or the area in which it is most effective) Perhaps they were able to begin helping Walt develop and enhance his skills and thought even if they let him and his father go they could bring him back. And what happens next? Remember how Ben keeps getting just what he wants? Well the sky turns a new color and Ben has a smirk on his face. Later we learn because of that incident communications to the outside world are down and a submarine is the only way off the Island (or out of the snow globe). So Walt is stuck and again Ben gets what he wants.

For an explanation of the Box directly; So far the Third Policeman theory is my favorite. Omnium (or something like it I suppose) would add an awesome element to the show and to me would be a satisfying answer for a portion of the mythological elements of the Island especially those pertaining to the hallucinations our Losties seem to be enduring.


jg

Claire Jones is an anagram for : "jar one slice"...hmmmm...I wonder what it means?
Sorry..haven't heard the 'cast yet.
jg

Jamie (c)

Good podcasts (for just the two of you) - it's great to hear a female's perspective as well.

Dedicated Listener speak only for itself.

I am a little worried about the hype the producers are pumping for next week, we've been let down before and these last two episodes were top notch.

So we'll see.

Pink

Great podcast this week. I never even noticed that painting before.

@ jg...lol :)

Anyway, stay LOST. Can't wait for the Nikki/Paolo episode!

P.S. What was up with that phone comment? It was pretty funny.

P.S.S. I actually enjoyed hearing from Tasha again. :)

Pink

Pink

Great podcast this week. I never even noticed that painting before.

@ jg...lol :)

Anyway, stay LOST. Can't wait for the Nikki/Paolo episode!

P.S. What was up with that phone comment? It was pretty funny.

P.S.S. I actually enjoyed hearing from Tasha again. :)

Pink

Pink

Oops :/

bonnix

I thought Tasha was great! You should have her on more. The sub being just sunk is an interesting theory, hadn't thought of that.

Cameron

Dedicated Listener: you don't speak for me. Tasha is great.

I am especially interested in the 'Locke didn't blow up the submarine' idea. I personally think that the writers are onto this podcast and know that each week that Locke does something apparently stupid, Robert is going to get on his case big time! When Locke blew up the communications station 2 weeks ago, the first thing that came into my head was 'Oh man, Locke you are going to cop it so bad on the podcast this week!'

Then the writers pull a switch and show that Locke has some kind of plan. It was a pity that Robert was not podcasting this weekend. I think the writers might have lured him into having a go a Locke a bit too soon ...

Anyway, if Locke has just moved the submarine, that gives him a ton of leverage over Ben if he lets him know later on that it is still in tact.

Also I want to say a big thanks to John for hanging in there when you were feeling sick. With everything going on etc. this could easily have been a week we didn't get a podcast, so it is great that you guys came through.

And congratulations to Matt Jones!

Finally, thanks also for the LOST links. I have found that the quality of these is really good these days and it gives us that little bit more to browse in that horribly long 3 day wait between the podcast and the next episode.


Matt Jones

Thanks for all the well wishes. We're still in the hospital. Mom has some minor blood pressure issues, but she's on her way back to normal. Clair on the other hand is the picture of health and too freaking cute for words.

I finally got to watch the episode via the magic of iTunes. Loved it. I have a lot of thoughts, but the one that sticks out is how Sawyer will react when he finds his namesake is on the island.

Cameron

Way to go Matt Jones - posting on the comments section from the maternity ward!

Best wishes!

WeakLemonDrink

I only speak for myself, but I missed the chemistry you get with Matt and Robert. I'm not a fan fo Tasha, I'm afraid.

WeakLemonDrink

Also, for such an importantr episode, it's a massive shame that this cast was only 40 minutes.

Still, I don't want to sound like moaning ingrate, so I'll say this Cast is still by far the best on the net for ANY show, so, you know, keep it up!

Hatch Monkey

Hi Guys,

Great episode, Great Podcast.

I think that Tasha is a breath of fresh air. I love Lostcasts but at times it can reach Geek Overload with all three guys present. Tasha was obviously less nervous this week & raised some good points.

Hope you feel better John
Congratulations Matt !! (I miss your witty asides "Prince Albert" etc.)
Well Done Tasha!

Take Care

Cihan

I consider my sister a representation of the casual viewer of Lost, and she had no idea Jack and Claire were related before last week's episode, and when I brought up the theory that Cooper is infact Sawyer, she was again surprised. I dont know what the point of me saying this is, but I'm sure there's a point somewhere.

Nice to hear from you Matt, we will of course be understanding if we dont hear you on the podcast for a while, heh. And yeah, I've envisioned a few nice scenes of Sawyer confronting Cooper, with Locke between them both naturally protecting his jerk of a dad.

Experiment 626

I can't listen to the podcast until this afternoon, so apologies if this was covered -- does anyone know the name of the piece of music Jack was playing on the piano? Last I checked, Lostpedia didn't have this info ...

SSB

Eric

It's a shame Robert and Matt couldn't be on the podcast after what I think is the best episode this season. But oh well. I suppose a new baby is more important than Lostcasts.

And what's with all the Tasha bashing? My only complaint is that she's too quiet, which is probably just because she's afraid of saying something "wrong". Seriously, back off, guys. I think she deserves a shot. So what if she doesn't know who Lando Calrissian is? Or if she has a girly laugh? Show a little maturity, please. And also, that's totally a hamster. Seriously. Just please tell her not to use the word "answers" again, or use the word "questions" as a negative thing. I see too much of that already. Other than that, I think she's a delight.

Anyway, I agree that there's a good chance Locke is pulling one over on Ben. Locke was CLEARLY soaking wet after he set the C4, and they made sure to show close-ups of him head to toe. Remember how Goodwin was dry when he should have been wet? I think this is the reverse of that. And Alex told Locke that Ben was manipulating him, and Locke said "I'll keep that in mind." How is doing exactly what he wants "keeping that in mind"? I think Locke may have at least weighed it down if he didn't pilot it.

And I'm with Tasha. I think there are two giant hamsters in a secret subterranean lair. Wouldn't it be awesome to see Jack, Locke, Sawyer, Sayid, and Desmond fighting two 40 foot tall hamsters in season 4? Kind of like the fight with the giant robot bear in Dark Tower. I mean, we've already seen giant Hurley Birds. Why not?

Keep up the good work, guys! Stay LOST!

Tyler

Where are there pics of the sub "explosion"?

broomballchick1

I think Tasha did a good job and enjoyed hearing what she had to say - at least until she admitted she didn't know who freakin Billy D Williams is - haha!

Congrats to Matt and his wife!

Also, I tried to fill out that survey a couple times and keep getting a 'server not found' page when I try to continue from pg 3 to pg 4. Anyone else have any problems with it? I'm not sure if it's my work system or originating from the survey's site...

Jamie (c)

@ Tyler - here they are from the previous thread -

Here's a picture of the sub docked, it's clearly visible in the light

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f5/darkjohnson/Lost/Sub_docked.jpg

Here's the dock moments before the blast

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f5/darkjohnson/Lost/Sub_is_gone.jpg

And here is the blast, note it's center is not where the sub would be.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f5/darkjohnson/Lost/Blast_Center.jpg

Sphere TL

Just one thought: I think J. Woods opinion on the episode on the link you gave us is wrong. He thinks that Locke's dad is actually the smoke monster.

I still think that it is the real Locke's dad who appeared in the Island. And I think Ben ordered Richard to get him, his reappearance is telling in that sense.

He can't be the smoke monster because how come Ben could think of impriosining the all powerful smoke monster with ropes on a chair? And if he can, because he controls the monster, why does he need Locke's input anyway to understand the Island/Monster?

Brian

OK, 2 questions.

1) Why does everyone think Walt is special? I don't remember him doing anything powerful. Except for a few of the visions where other people saw Walt speaking to them or whispering. But was that really Walt, or was it a manifestation by the island?

2) Why do people think that Sawyer and Cooper have a connection. I must have missed that one.

Sphere TL

@Jamie, Thanks for the pictures man, I think those pictures lead to the impression that no submarine was exploded. Unless the producers did not have the money to destroy a model of a sub, but that is unlikely, they could have used CGI as the often use gratuituosly every other episode where they have a chance to put an Ocean Airlines plane, etc. The mere fact, besides the pictures, that we don't actually see parts of the sub exploding suggests that the sub is somehow submerged. Add to that Locke's wet clothes and I am convinced. It seems that Locke does not how to operate a sub alone and manage a underwater scape hatch then.

Brian

FWIW, I think Tasha did a great job on this Podcast. Only suggestion, watch the original Star Wars series and take a big swig from a bottle of Colt 45 every time a light saber is used.

3) I do NOT think that the smoke monster is Locke's dad. It just seems silly to me.

4) Thanks for the image of Kate straddling a tree with 2 metal orbs!

mike

i think you guys need me as a guest podcaster week-to-week, since you leave stuff out.

"Anthony Cooper, Adam Seward" is anagram for "Sawyer, the con man, a poor dad".

ols879

Long Time listener, first time poster... Just had to say Congrats to Matt!

Hope you are able to keep up with the podcast - you are irreplaceable...

It was great to hear from Brian last week too!

Keep up the great work.

Mark B


OK sorry this is sooooo long ...


First up echoing everyone else ….. congratulations to Matt and Mrs. Matt on the safe arrival of Claire. Hopefully Mrs Matt will still let Matt out to play on Sundays. Failing that he'll have to invest on some techno-wizz-bang 'stuff' so he can call in and chat live to add his erudite comments.

Secondly, Tasha wasn't bad, OK she wasn't great but this was her first full-on cast give her a break. Though not knowing who Billy Dee Williams is was very bad form -- he's going to be Jacob surely. I'd prefer Tasha to just getting one of the other non-Lostcast Lost podcasters and having a love-in which is all they other Lost podcasters do. Thanks Tasha and John. Shame Brian couldn't make it.

Thirdly, I like the new intros each week. As far as the comments section goes whatever is best for you really. In recent weeks the comments section has been filling up so fast that there is no way to read all of it and so there are mutliple posts saying the same stuff. Some really simple board would work, there are after all only a few (maybe ten max.) threads going.

Fourthly, that voicemail comment was really funny.

Fifthy, I wonder what happened to Locke to change him from the terrified guy getting put in a wheelchair to the ultra determined one we saw in Walkabout. As presenter John said does Lockes faith in his destiny come from surviving the eight story fall but it took him a few years to realise that ?

Sixtly, I'm really confused as to why anyone thinks the sub was NOT blown up. It seems so logical that it was given the conversation between Ben and Locke that Locke would go and blow the sub. Everything we know about Locke says that he is very naïve, easily conned/manipulated, and a man who acts on impulse and most importantly he wants all ways to get off the island destroyed. Ben is the master manipulator who's conned harder people to con than Locke. Surely 2+2=4. Why would Locke suddenly become this double dealing person ? OK I can't fully explain the fact Locke was dry getting on the sub and wet getting onto the dock -- my feeling was that he may well have looked around the sub then planted the C4 and then just jumped off and swam back. Perhaps he cut the mooring lines on his way out so the sub would blow up a bit further out and had to swim back hence ther fact it's not right at the pier. There is NO way Locke could drive a sub if he'd played a computer game/simulator -- sorry it does not work like that -- try flying a plane after a few hours on Microsoft Flight Sim. But then this is LOST I suppose. I hope the Official Podcast clears this up because I know it's one of those things that's going to keep coming up again and again.

Mark B

TRAILER SPOILER WARNING .....

Oh buggeration in the trailer linked below (it's the post-epi one) what is happening at 6 seconds ?

Someone (Sayid ?) swimming underwater ? Diving down to the unblown-up sub ?

http://www.youtube.com/watchv=akJXl6WAJEo&mode=related&search=

Jamie (c)

@Mark B - Firstly - the sub, the only reason I support it not being blown up is the lack of it being visible in any of the sequences leading up to the explosion. Heck, it could be the producers intentionally took it out of those shots just to f with our heads.

Secondly – I’ve flown MS Simulator a lot, got in my cousin’s Glassair

http://www.aero-news.net/images/content/sportav/2003/Glasair%20III-air-to-air-0703-1a.jpg

and flew it (for the first time) from the airport to directly over my house, doing a wing tip turn on the mark. It can be done. Would I have done it without a skilled pilot, no but that’s reality not TV drama.

Plus Locke may NOT have been kidding about being in the Navy, just because so far in his flash backs he’s been a loser doesn’t me he didn’t serve, it certainly is within the realm of possibilities for Lost.

Jamie (c)

@Mark B - That link didn't work (here) but I think what you're seeing is Palo diving down to recover 'Lost' junk from wreckage in the surf.

I won't tell you more, to not spoil it.

Kathy aka Fangirl

I think Locke went inside the sub to make sure no one else was in it. Then he sawm outside the sub to load up the C4 to guarantee a hole in the hull. Blowing it up from the inside might destroy the insides, but not necessarily sink it. This is why he was wet. I just don't buy Locke turning into his father and hustling them. It just doesn't fit his character.

SMKGrl

All of the discussion about if it's done on a simulator, can it be done in reality reminds me that YES! it can.

Remember 9/11?

Cihan

Dont know if this has been linked before, but a nice wallpaper you guys might like:

http://interfacelift.com/wallpaper/artists.php?id=6157

Especially groovy at 1650x1050.

Also, can you guys give a bit more warning before spoiler talk. All this discussion about Billy Dee Williams has kind of taken the surprise of his appearence away for me...:(

Jamie (c)

@ Kathy aka Fangirl - "guarantee a hole in the hull" - so too would have been just blowing the Bridge off the thing and would have been less ambiguous as to its fate. ;)

Note: They've already established that Locke will lie when he needs it, his possesion of the C4 is a prime example.

JackedupLockedown

RE: The Submarine explosion

Okay now I am frustrated. I was hoping this seemingly absurd theory would disipate but alas. I still can not follow why Locke would benefit from submerging the vessel, and if he did that how did he get out out it? Please someone explain to me the possible motive for doing anything but blowing it up and also how one can assume if the Sub is in tact and just submerged or moved that the Others won't locate it shortly after they realize it was not blown up?

Thanks

jg

I hereby invoke the "Gilligan's Island Rule" (GIR). That is, anything technically impossible is possible here.

I now am being persuaded like Cihan. Locke did not blow up the sub. Locke went aboard to find the “submerge button” and his ruse will work since the others won’t go out and check the damage.

@Jamie,
You questioned my use of Occam’s Razor. Once again you are correct. I now say: “Occam’s Razor Shmoccam’s Razor”.

I am like an Alcoholic that swears off the stuff, and then time and again, falls off the wagon. That’s me with technical analysis of this show.

-------Blaspheme Warning-----
Gilligan's Island and Lost Island are the same.
-------End Blaspheme-----------

Sheers
jg

Lorne

Congrats Matt!
Oh, why does the Official Lost podcast have Grey's Anatomy in it's url?

http://abc.go.com/primetime/greysanatomy/podcastRSS?feedPublishKey=3421

Jamie (c)

@ JackedupLockedown - the simplist move would be for him to untie it, push it away from the dock and swim back.

He only wants it to appear that it's blown long enough for Ben to play the rest of his hand.

Seemed obvious that Locke wanted to be captured, expecting the explosion would bring on the heat.

BTW- I'm ready to be wrong about the sub - but once again, this is the only thing (other than continuity errors) that explains why the sub isn't in those scenes.

Joop

Gilligan's Island and Lost Island are the same?
not when the millionaire is Hurley dude.

Cihan

I've already outlined why my opinion has shifted ever so slightly in favour of Locke not blowing up the sub in the previous talkback. In short:

# He's a military geek.
# Ben's line about a 'submerge button' just screams irony.
# He took note of Alex's comment about Ben.
# Locke is soaking wet when he has no reason to be.

A possible logical explanation would be this: He decided to sink the sub instead of blowing it up for whatever reason, and he did so by pressing the equivalent of a submerge button and escaping through a torpedo hole.

I really dont care either way, I mean my initial reaction was he blew the sub, simple. But I can see an argument for him not blowing the sub.

Another random note: when he entered the sub, he found the light switch pretty easily, whereas it would have taken me five minutes at least.

Mark B

OK I'll believe that you can fly a plane after using a simulator. However in the US it is very easy to get access to fly planes. Even in todays world of heightened security I can walk into my nearest airport and jump in a small plane with an instructor and could go on a "trail lesson" this afternoon for about $50. Flight simulators are very easy to come by -- even very small airports have them -- learning to fly in the US is something anyone who can afford it can do. But submarine simulators ?? I mean really how many places are there that you could go and learn how to put a sub safely on the seafloor and then exit from the sub without drowning. I don't see Locke as being at all military, if anything I'd say he was someone who applied to join but got turned down because of his history (unless in the years before we've seen him in flashback he's a totally different person). He'd then turn into some wacko with an arsenal bigger than some small countries. I think it was John on the cast who said Locke's probably just a "military buff", I agree. John Locke, submariner, never in a million years. John Locke, man with C4 blowing stuff up because the island is telling him to, every hour of the last 80 days or so. And why would he want to keep the sub when he thinks the Others are cheating using technology and having the ability to get off the island ??

If Locke didn't blow the sub we're getting awfully close to jumping the shark.

Next up Hurley, aeronautics engineer, building a four seater plane from left over pieces of Ocenaic 815, some Dharma duct tape, a stick of gum, a ping-pong ball, a copy of Das Kapital, and a ball of string.

StevenFromBarbados

I’m still a little skeptical about Locke NOT blowing up the submarine. It is possible that he could have moved it elsewhere and swam back to the dock But do you really think The Others are that stupid/ignorant as to not fully investigate exactly what Locke did. There must be some evidence that a submarine was just blown up. Some kind of metal or something. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

jg

@ Joop,
I should be more specific. The physical places are the same. But you do bring up a good point.
If I may expand it:
There is a black-white dichotomy on the current show. Thurston Howell III was a pompous pretenious bore and Hurly is ...well...not a pretentious nor pompous bore.
Blasphemingly yours,
jg

jg

I meant boor not bore.

Joop

@ jg
I didn't think your blasphemy was sincere.
BTW I never saw Marry Ann take a wild ride on a felled tree.

Cihan

"And why would he want to keep the sub when he thinks the Others are cheating using technology and having the ability to get off the island ?" - Mark B.

Good question.

You know, I can forgive there not being a sub being blown up in a screencap, I mean that shot is only for a second, why bother going to the effort of having a sub blown up and only seeing it for one second? I know they like the Tivo crowd but they're not that stupid. But the shot of a soaking wet Locke is just so strange.

Brian

Maybe he tripped and fell in the water while trying to bid a hasty retreat from the sub? That's why he's all wet.

However, I don't think it would be far fetched to figure out how to get the sub to the bottom. I assume the water at that dock isn't very deep. He could have looked for some kind of bilge pump and just flooded the ballasts with water. That would have caused it to submerge. How did he get out? well, the hatch probably has a pressurization chamber. Get in the chamber, close the hatch below you, fill the pressurization chamber with water, open hatch above, swim to shore.

Jamie (c)

@ Cihan - it's actually a few shots and with it so prominent in the setup shots before Locke enters, it would be a considerable oversight for it to not be there for the climatic shots.

Especially considering the Tivo freaks capping every frame and that the sub exploding is the prime focus of that scene.

Add the 'mystery' around his being wet and you get the broken record I'm playing. ;)

Hey, maybe he put Claire's message (that fell off the bird) into the sub and sent it on it's way. ;-)

Mark B

Perhaps Locke cut the mooring lines after he got on the sub so it would float away into deeper water and blow up a bit further out and therefore be harder to salvage. He had to swim back hence the fact it's not in the same place at the pier and he's wet. Makes sense to me.

This has got to be in one of those conversations Damon and Carlton have in the Official Podcast ...

D : "So Caaarlton, the submarine. Locke apparently blew it up but he was all dripping wet on the dock. What was all that about ?"

C : "Well I get all dripping wet everytime I blow a sub".

D : (Nervous tittering) "Seriously Caaarlton, he blew-up it then"

C : "I think so .... didn't he ?"

JackedupLockedown

@ Brian

Ah the ole' Bilge pump & Ballasts trick...We should have known.

Thank you for answering one half of my question logically.

EVERYONE

By the way people anybody have any theories on what the first "incident" circa 1976 that is mentioned in the orientation video for The Swan and the AH\MDG Incident of 1985 cited on the Blast door map are? Are they related to the eventually purge we learn about? How about the late '84 Suspected shutdown date on the Blast door map? How does that fit in?

Thanks again

P.S. The picture (in Bens Crib) if it is anyone we have already been introduced to it is Karen DeGroot IMO...Same haircut, logical that a picture of here would be in a Dharma Barracks.

Jamie (c)

@ Mark B - the dock is blowing up in the shots. It it drifted, it wasn't that far off.

jg

@ Joop,
Whoa,…It makes me think of a quote from “Wayne’s World”. Garth: “. ..makes me feel funny like climbing the rope in gym class”.

But seriously,
Plausible flashback: Locke pushes “submerge button”…gets the ‘Oh sh*t’ look on his face…scampers up ladder…now finds that he must (close the hatch?) and swim for it…and while he is there blows up the infrastructure (dock) for the sub…

Ciao,
jg

waitingforlost


My biggest gripe over the did he/didn't he is why would he ?

On another note. How did Ben get the photos of young Alex ? Does the timline fit ? If the Purge happened post-Mikhail arriving in 1993 (2004 - 11 = 1993) and Alex was kidnapped in 1988 (2004 - 16 = 1988) then where did Ben get the camera and film developing materials from ? He's a hostile as he was born on the island (Ben has got to be 40 so was born in the mid-60's. Dharma was setup in the 70's). Did Dharma share with the hostiles before the purge ? My assumption was that Dharma and the hostiles were always on opposite sides or at least not on freindly terms. Did Mikhail say anything about pre-purge times ?

Mark B

@Brian

I thought the first incident was in 1980. My theory always was that the electomagnet in the Swan got out of whack. Perhaps Dharma was messing with it and it went all purple sky on them.

AH/MDG must be Alvar Hanso/M. De Groot. I'm guessing now that whatever happened with them led to the purge. In '84 the operations shutdown for some reason -- lack of funding (???) but in '85 Hanso and De Groot turned up to see what was going on. Maybe the locals were getting restless and Hanso/De Groot ordered the purge -- unlikely given the whole "doing it for the good of the world" theory about Dharma. But if in '85 Widmore got involved he may have had another agenda. Maybe the Hostiles found out that these off islanders were behind all the bad happenings and started it the purge and Mikhsail is lying.

@Jamie
I guess the currents aren't that strong there then .....

Kathy aka Fangirl

On a Gillian island note:

There was a great quote in "Back to the Beach" where Bob Denver says "I knew a guy who could take two coconuts and turn them into a radio. However, he couldn't fix a two foot hole in a boat.

Those who keep using the screencaps as your evidence it wasn't blown up:

If it was just blowing up water, why would there be something on fire? It would just throw up the water. Something is clearly burning.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilagentesegreto/430906974/in/set-72157600016945226/

Not mention what looks like debris coming off the sides:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilagentesegreto/430906323/in/set-72157600016945226/

Sphere TL

Check it out the insides of theUSS Pampanito, in SF bay area: http://www.maritime.org/tour/tcrvr.htm Looks like the

"the hydraulic controls be used to open the main ballast tank vents on the top of the ballast tanks. This allowed air to escape through the vents, and seawater to enter through the flood ports in the bottom of the tanks. As the tanks flooded, the boat submerged." There is even a link to the USS Submarines online manual: http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/index.htm

Well, if Locke is a military fanatic, knew about knife throwing (1st episode), rifles, boar hunting, navigation, hatch destroying techniques (1st season), mind altering susbstances, etc. I think it is very believable that he could find some time to peruse a submarine album and have an idea how to submerge a submarine. It would be harder to use a scape hatch, specially alone, but I think it is believable.

As for the reasons to do it: (1) he likes his friends, he is aware that he maybe one of the few who wants to stay on the Island; (2) he won't kill all the others with a small army, and he is not a serial killer, it would be easier to somehow convince all the bad guys (and his friends) to leave the Island for good. This way he does not have to kill a lot of people, or modify their behavior with his talk.

(3) A sunk sub at low depth is not that well hidden, but the dock is far away from othersville, and it could buy him sometime for Ben to show what his next move would be. He could really disrupt Ben's crew if they are really upset when they get the news that they can't leave the Island. Locke could do something about that, in time.

Sphere TL

@ Kathy that bright yellow flame is querosene, standard hollywood stunt. A diesel submarine explosion (by the looks of it) would not be that bright. So I think that this is just what the producers think that an explosion, any explosion, should look like.

If they wanted to be dramatic, they could have shown more of the submarine exploding, right? They use a lot of CGI (Computer graphics) to show Oceanic flights in the most gratuituous scenes (like this 3rd season first episode), so lack of money for CGI is not the issue.

And what about Locke being completely wet? We all see him inside the sub, what was he looking for? Are you saying he got out and look for a better place to sunk? But then why sunk? If he only wanted to make the sub inoperable HE COULD JUST BLOW UP THE CONTROL ROOM! That would be enough, don't you think? Without a control room, the sub is just a giant log floating uncontrollably.
Also, Locke would not just throw the C4 into the water, right? It is not like TNT, where you lit the fuse and just blow it. He must have put the C4 into something, either a dock side, or a small boat.

Cihan

We may yet overtake Trekkers as TV geeks. We may yet...

Mark B


OK, I don't agree with the reasons Locke would not blow up the sub but there is a slim chance that Locke didn't blow up the sub so I guess he's not guilty. He could have learnt how to sink one and get out alive etc. from a website and/or manual. Hell, if you look online you can find out almost anything you want to and a bunch of stuff you don't.

One other thing I thought of is that the Others have a second sub we are yet to find out about and the prop dept only wanted to build one. Maybe the Others keep one sub near the mainland and one on the island.

Jamie (c)

@ Cihan...yikes, let's hope not.

Ok, so perhaps we're looking too closely and seeing eggs were there are none but I don't think were that 'Lost', not yet. ;)

Cihan

Jamie, we're linking to websites explaining the hydraulic controls that are used to open the main ballast tank vents of a submarine.

We're in deep.

Sphere TL

hahaha I think I maybe went over the top on that one...hahaha. I'm guilty as charged.

I_Lost_Sayid

Congrats Matt!!

Chris in OIy

Yeah, the timeline for the Purge, Incident, and Danielle is still murky.
1970's - Incident?
1988-Danielly loses Alex
1993-Purge/Kelvin arrives in the Hatch

I like the theory that initially the Hostiles were a creation of DHARMA, another skinner box on the island. This creates a wierd expirement by recruiting people to be hostiles. That explains the amount of theatrical props the other have. So the DHARMA planted 'Hostiles' meet the real 'Others'. Since the Hostiles are probably told the scientists are evil and they have to take them down, the addition of the Others tips the balance. When DHARMA realizes what is going on they try to end the psychological expirement but it is too late and out of control.

But yeah, Danielle loses Alex essentially when Dharma is in control, and this is quirky.

I look forward to the falshbacks of Danielle to see what really happened.

PS. Congrats to Matt!

PPS. Tasha, you did great overall. But in the podcast it seemed that you listened to other opinions and valued opposing views. If we have learnt anything from Fox news shows, this is not the right way to info-tain people. It'll never catch on ;-)

JOSHVM

OK this may come off as a pretty far-fetched theory, but hear me out:

When Desmond turned the failsafe key the purple sky was a sign of the dimensional/time rift being opened, which allowed Desmond to see the future. In his “dream sequence” the mysterious woman tells Desmond about fate being unchangeable. Once back on the island, Desmond knows Charlie will die and tries to save him. But fate won't allow this. In this week's episode I think Desmond will have to make a choice to help/save another survivor instead of Charlie. Jin will be the one who kills Charlie, once he finds out "what Charlie did" when he kidnapped Sun. Charlie will be the father of Sun's baby.

At the same time, Nikki and Paulo will be involved in some conspiracy which will lead to their demise. The others will bury them ALIVE in the Adam and Eve’s cave. (No one has checked the Adam and Eve cave recently, but Adam and Eve have been gone since the time rift [purple sky]). Charlie will die at the same time as Nikki and Paulo are buried alive. This will undo the dimensional rift, causing another purple sky. Desmond will lose his future sight powers. And... NIKKI AND PAULO WILL BECOME THE AGED ADAM AND EVE, DUE TO THE TIME RIFT.

Thanks for reading!

JOSHVM

JackedupLockedown

@ MARK B

I've been working this out all week and here's what I got so far

We really don't know when the first Incident happened. It has to pre-date 1980 however as the orientation film for the Swan is from 1980 and states that the Swan station was built after the incident to prevent future occurrences. I would tend to agree that it was some sort of electromagnetic pulse similar to what began to happen when the numbers were not entered.

A BRIEF (or not so brief) HISTORY OF THE ISLAND A.S. (After Swan)

1980: Operations of Swan station begin
1981: Hanso Group Delegation inspection to assure no risk of future incidents.
1983: First group of unknown Dharma initiative members complete their three year stay in the Swan and return home
-Later that year Radzinsky arrives along presumably a partner as at this time the program would seem to be running smoothly.
1984: October is our "suspected Shutdown date" My guess is that the lack of progress (or the direction the initiative was headed) combined with what I am sure at this point was an increasingly agitated and aggressive Native presence caused Hanso to threaten pull the plug on the financial backing at least temporarily. (My guess in the natives are the subjects of experiments which they quickly grow tired of)
1985: AH\MDG incident…while I agree it is likely that this is an abbreviation for Alvar Hanso and the De Groots as well. I also theorize that this is when Ben and those who followed him either sided with or more likely performed a coup to Dethrone the De Groots. As this happened some natives join Ben’s group and infiltrate the Dharma camps and begin use the technological tools of the Island in lieu of the spiritual ones, and others choose to continue to live in the primitive fashion they apparently had prior to Dharmas arrival. Somehow I think this is the reason for the Black Smoke and why it seems to judge you and resolve your fate based on your loyalty to the Island.
1987: Hanso realizes the De Groots and Dharma has lost control and leaves the program for dead. Somehow the radicals who still believe in the chance to change to variables in the Valenzetti equation are able to secretly keep the project running because of the funding on a new partner…My guess Whidmore Labs.
Shortly after: With the help of Whidmore the Radical die-hards now running Dharma release some sort of agent into the atmosphere of the Island in hopes it will eliminate the hostile presence. The results however vary as it does kill some people, but in the long-term renders all infertile. Because the Dharma initiative is not sure how long the fatal component will last they require members of the Initiative to continue following the injection protocol as long as the operation lasts.

Needing to protect itself and assure the preservation of its inhabitants the Island starts drawing people to it, hence Leonard hearing the numbers in early 1988 and all the accidents that have followed Yemi’s plane, Desmond, The Balloon, 815 etc.

1988: The Dharma initiative continues to operate in a limited capacity as only essential stations are kept running as the barracks probably some of the hatches (Staff for sure) have been commandeered. Rousseau and here crew arrive on the Island and most fall prey to the sickness as they spend all their time in the open air. The Island is able to protect Rousseau however because she brings the hope of new life being pregnant.

1991-1993: Radzinsky’s partner, having been killed or captured or who knows is gone now and is replaced by a member of a new batch of more militant recruits. Kelvin (I also theorize this is when Mikhail arrives on the Island.) Armories are established at the Swan and Hydra stations in preparation for the already planned and impending purge.

Sometime not to long after 1993: THE PURGE: What’s left of Dharma decides to attempted to rid themselves of the hostiles and likely former Dharma members turned sympathizers (“it doesn’t matter who we we’re just who we are”) In the process they lose control of the Hydra station and it’s armories, the Animals escape and what’s left of them either flees in a hippy van, joins Bens Crew or takes door number three (you don’t want door number three)

Post purge; approx 1996: Radzinsky bits the bullet having continued to explore the Island continuing work on the map and realizing there is no one is else left and no one coming to replace him.

“No man is an Island”… but now Inman is one on one

1999: Desmond Crashes on the Shore line Inman retrieves him and his boat which he hides in a nearby cove. Desmond comes to doesn’t solve the Snowman riddle and begins his career as a button pushing second in command.

2001: Now realizing that their utopian world will collapse otherwise the Others we know begin recruit Juliet in the hope that she can solve their fertility problem. Certainly she is not the only person they recruit…

2004: 815 Crashes

No doubt there are a lot of holes and a lot of room for improvement of what at this point is little more than speculation, but it does give the story a nice flow and provides adequate motivation for most actions and events we know to have occurred.

So lets here what you think…

JOSHVM

PS: Tasha is a great personality (see gold stars for tasha below), and the podcast would be even cooler than "chuck norris and a zombie's love child" if there were at least 9-10 people all discussing LOST.

(****-4-********-8-***************-15-****************-16-***********************-23-******************************************-42-)

sorry for rambling nonsense :-) JOSHVM

kristen

@waitingforlost
you make a good point, did the others have pictures of young girls dropped with the supplies? (thats a bit creepy)I have assumed that the mainland dharma (the ones not on the island) had thought that their projects were still ongoing on the island, so maybe ben asked for a camera and film...

@kathy aka fangirl
perhaps locke submerged the sub and then placed the C4 on the side of the dock, so when the C4 blew, it destroyed the dock, creating fire and debris, just a thought...

JOSHVM

@ JackedupLockedown "Somehow I think this is the reason for the Black Smoke and why it seems to judge you and resolve your fate based on your loyalty to the Island."

this to me makes the most since as to why the monster was created.

later the monster was left behind with the rest of the DHARMA materials because it had gotten out of control, driving the de groots out. the monster could have discovered the reason for its creation, and became angry it was created to serve only one purpose. It seems like a classic artificial intelligence surpassing humans conflict. This is why the monster is so uncontrolable.

Kathy aka Fangirl

We clearly have a hung jury on this. We could probably argue this until the cows come home - not that they could come home since the sonic fence would fire them.

Until their are Lost LARPs (Live-Action Role Play), I think it's safe to say we are not as bad are the trekkies. On a related note, has anyone tried to play the game? 5 of us (sober I might add) spent an hour and could not figure it out.

jg

@jacked
Well done. I have to make a hard copy of this.
Ciao,
jg

Mark B


@JackedUp

I too need to digest this, too tired now -- it'll give me something to look at work tomorrow. On first pass reading it seems like a sensible timeline.... assuming I know what a sensible timeline looks like.

More tomorrow.

Mark B


@Matt Jones

Got one of these for Claire ?

http://www.cafepress.com/squirtshirts.105377920

jg

@Kathyaka
I have never heard of LARPs. Maybe you are to be not sober.Try it.
jg

jg

@MarkB
A Black Rock. He should be so lucky. I usually found a....
jg

Jonathan

hey guys (and gal) thanks for another great podcast, despite the short roster...

first of all: i'm suprised no one picked up on this (maybe i caught it because i have HD), but it might be interesting to note that Locke's first name is actually "Johnathan." i caught it at the beginning of the episode on his disability application (if someone could get a screencap you can see it, and maybe someone could decipher the doctors names at the bottom, i couldn't).

also, as far as the gay character is concerned, it has been obvious to me since the beginning of the season: Tom! he walks in on Kate in the shower and says with a sort of "are you stupid!?" inflection that she is "not his type." then he practically goes into tears when Ben is on the operating table, not to mention he's been crushing on Jack ever since he moved to othersville.

peace, and stay lost!
-Jonathan

Kathy aka Fangirl

LARPing is for the truly geeky. Best way to describe it is like going to Renaissance Faires. In character and in Inform, I've seen trekkies in the park LARPing. It's just so odd.

I'm not sure if there is more than one Lost board game, but the one we tried had all these hexagons that lined up to form the island and you needed to convince characters to do stuff. It made no sense. I think they should have gone with a Lost monopoly or trivia game. Has anyone else tried it?

Drederick_Tatum

Just thinking about that Kathy, what if that is the point of the game? Using it in the context of Lost. Being an omnipotent 3rd party trying to make people do things.

jg

@ Kathy aka
LARPing = 21st century "Dungeons and Dragons"?
anyone...?
jg

alex's slingshot

@ Jonathan

about Tom being the gay character... Cuse and Lindelof claim whoever it is will be in the upcoming Nikki and Paolo episode but that we shouldn't bother looking for him/her because they're not going to just declare "Hi I'm gay!" Which makes me think this is just Lindelof and Cuse being smug and cute about it. They might be referencing a red shirt who will never be important to the story, so who knows if having a gay character means anything for the story. Also, I doubt Tom will be in this episode cause I think it's focussed on the beach, otherwise I would think it was him based on his new love affair with Jack and what he said to Kate.

ahh i love rambling on about stuff that will probably end up being irrelevant... sigh.

alex's slingshot

woooo! another official LOST podcast is up with Damon and Carlton!

jg

@alex's
"Which makes me think this is just Lindelof and Cuse being smug and cute about it. " May I say they are rather pedantic ..and ...the ...oppisite...of ...cute... guys. (In a Hurley sense of things).
jg

alex's slingshot

@jg

yeah i agree. i didn't me cute like teddy bear cute, i meant it like "oh aren't we just so preciously clever"

jg

@alex's
"aren't we just so preciously clever"... I can't stand it. I truly thank those of you that suffer through that Podcast and derive for us the crumbs of usable stuff.
jg

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