Get Ready for Something Completely Different

Because of the Easter holiday this weekend, we're going to try something a little different. We'll be recording the podcast right after we see season 3, episode 15 of LOST, Left Behind.

Since the show airs at 9pm here in Dallas, we should have the podcast up around 11pm or so tomorrow night. We will, of course, be back to our regular schedule next week!

Comments

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

Sweet! Should be interesting. Can't wait.

[Sarah]

2nd post!

Yay! I know yall talked about that earlier in the season, and was in fact just wondering a couple days ago when yall were gonna do it. I'm excited. :) I'm also listening to the Expose podcast right now.

Stay LOST.
Sarah

[Jamie (c)]

Wonder if we can get 200 posts before the podcast? ;)

[alex's slingshot]

oooh exciting!

[daviboy]

You can do it! (in my best Rob Schnieder voice)

Can't wait for the podcast! Left Behind should be great...especially since Ole' Smokey is supposed to make an appearance. There's rain in the preview and we all know bad stuff happens if it rains. I just hope we hear the "jungle whispers" again like in the first and second seasons.

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

For those who want to refresher on their jungle whisphers: http://www.patriotresource.com/lost/insights/whispers.html

[daviboy]

@ Kathy aka Fangirl

Thanks for the link. I think a lot of people have forgotten!

[Thomas Sydenham]

Helping the push for 200.

Odds on who will get post 100

Mikeinthebox 5-1
Kathy aka Fan Girl 4-1
jg 7-1
Cihan 3-1
All others 3-2

Any takers...

[John]

We're really testing out the waters on this whole podcasting the night of the show thing. More than anything, we're doing it because all of us have stuff going on over Easter weekend... so I doubt we'll be doing it that often. I think the few days we take after the episode airs really helps us identify all the easter eggs and stuff that we surely won't catch in the first viewing. I may record an "addendum" this weekend if I find a bunch of stuff we missed! But yeah, it should be fun.

BTW - I like the odds on Mikeinthebox...

[Nash]

So in the world of probability (where I live):

Mikeinthebox 83.3%
Kathy aka Fan Girl 80%
jg 87.5%
Cihan 75%
All others 60%

Total 385.8%

I wouldn't quit your day job just yet to be a loan shark :)

[Thomas Sydenham]

@ Nash

You need to vacation to the world of proofreading, instead of staying tucked away in Probabilityville.

Overall the numbers are slightly skewed in favor of the people beting, but I am a generous guy. Anyway you are a little confused.

5-1 means the probability of someone else winning is five times that of the person, you have it reversed. You're refering to 1-5 odds, not 5-1. Mike in the box has a 16.7% chance of winning according to those odds and you'd make 5 dollars for every one you bet.

Take a look at the current odds for American Idol or the World Series as an example.

P.S. John you do a great job on the podcast. As I have cited before you are the Ryan Seacrest of podcasts. Looking forward to the cast Wednesday night and have a great Easter holiday.

Also Nash it would be a bookie not a loan shark.

[JackedupLockedown]

Does anyone know if we have heard the whispers since the hatch blew up?

[Nash]

@Thomas Sydenham,

Now I've very confused. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odds "an event with m to n odds would have probability m/(m + n)". But then later on it agrees with you said: "20% ... would be presented in fractional odds of 4 to 1 against (written as 4 : 1 or 4/1)" (or 4-1 in your case). I guess the key is the word "against"?

[Nash]

BTW, the total would still be %114.1 making the bookie pretty unhappy.

[Thomas Sydenham]

Just trust me, I've lost enough times to know how it works.

[JackedupLockedown]

Then you should take him as your Bookie Nash; I'll take 20 pretend dollars on Cihan, he is the hungriest for it. Also it would be a reapeat in terms of significant posts.

Cihan: The Florida Gators of lostcasts?

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

63% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

We haven't heard whisphers since the food drop.

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

Speaking of regular posters - What happened to Matt Lafferty? I haven't seen him in the comments section in a long time. Anyone know?

[JackedupLockedown]

He was working for the Others

[alex's slingshot]

i just about fell over laughing at this line from the TWoP recap of last weeks episode (the part where Jack gives his 'live together, die alone' speech):

"If we can't live together, we are going to die alone.' The camera pans over the gathered survivors. They are holding up lighters, swaying, and holding hands. Most are crying. They have giant photos of Jack that they are holding up in the air. They have Saint Jack t-shirts and commemorative beer steins. It's a beautiful sight."

[Thomas Sydenham]

@ ALL
RE: Whispers

The transcipts of the Whispers are very intriguing; seems like there is some sort of presence (perhaps associated with the Smoke) that is observing the losties with some sense of omniscience. The fact that they are half having a conversation is very cool despite making it all the more ambigious in terms of having any strict relevence. (I know something can't be kind of omniscience but you guys get it)

I think the smoke could be "him"; I'm not sure that that has been brought up yet. I would be interested to know what some of the regular posters and anyone for that matter has to say in terms of theories related to the topic. Monster, Whispers etc.

[Midnight]

A podcast so quickly! Looking forward to it. Waiting for several days to hear your take on an episode is always very hard.

@Thomas Sydenham,

I doubt that the smoke monster is "him", although "he" could certainly be controling the smoke monster. Another option is that the smoke monster is a manifestation of the anger of the island. (Perhaps because of the "cheating" Locke mentioned.) In that case the Others are (perhaps even more than the Losties) at odds with the smoke monster.

[Mike in the Box]

Sweet, i have some great odds. fortunate for me we are rating each other on quality of content.

[Joop]

On the fly...sounds good

My first thought was oh sh-- another Kate flashback, but I'm hoping that 'Left Behind' will breathe some life into that story line. We might even learn who Kate's husband was looking for in Tampa, Sawyer? Cooper?

@ alex's slingshot

Yeah, I was waiting for them to break into 'kum ba ya'...I think they played that up to juxtapose Ethan being there...very creepy.

[Mike in the Box]

oops
my comment was supposed to say:

"fortunate for me we AREN'T rating each other on quality of content."

[Thomas Sydenham]

we knew that mike :)

[jg]

@ Kathy aka,
I don’t know what happened to Matt Lafferty. I emailed him (as you can do here) and asked him to come back. No answer, and I promised I wouldn’t ever do that again. He was losing heart with the slow pace and too many questions, etc. as of the end of last season.

@ Joop,
Did you happen to read my post to you on the Multiverse theory on the last thread?

@ sabalon,
Yes, severe brain damage. I thought the end was "Serpent and the Rainbow"-esque. This was mentioned on the podcast. But this is Lost, suspension of belief is part of the deal. All things medical on this show are ludicrous. By the way, "Serpent and the Rainbow" is about the making of Zombies in Haiti. It’s a true story and a fascinating read. In the book they use tetrodotoxin to render the victim paralyzed as the medusa spider did here. These victims were buried in coffins with a volume of air to breathe until dug up later. Many of these victims surely suffered from ischemic hypoxic encephalopathy. (An apparent prerequisite for Zombiehood.)

@ Mark and Jamie,
I too wondered about the sound. I thought it was more like a 1000 horny spiders scampering toward our poor Nikki. That was creepy. It was much creepier than the monster.

I like my odds... 1:7... or... is it... 8:42

[Lost Wookiee]

I think we might need a money line instead of straight odds.

[Mike in the Box]

since i was just talking about the quality of posts:

I was talking to a friend of mine this week (who listens to the lostcast, but does not comment) and we agreed that we tend to read every post from Cihan, and Kathy AKA fangirl. I also appreciate insights from Nash and Mark B.

Keep it up guys, this is the most intelligent podcast and message board i have found regarding Lost. also encourage those who listen to also comment. there are only a handful of us who share our thoughts but there are a lot of people reading them. encourage people to join the discussion.

[Jeffinthe9]

Good luck getting a lot of ideas without the posts before. haha. I would love to see a quicker formate for the show after the episode as well as more guests

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

"You like me. You really like me." Thanks!

Too bad about Lafferty. He was a good poster. We chatted online during the "live" lostcast. I still tell people about that live podcast when all the mics came on "no, we're the survivors of flight 815." Still makes me laugh. One of those moments of perfect comedic timing.

[Jamie (c)]

# 200! Whooohooo. What? too soon? I hate it when that happens.

[Jon W]

Just a tad early, And the betting for the 108th post? Thats always the unlucky guy that dies the next day when he's sucked into an aeroplane engine or something :D

[my-2-cents]

*******************
SPOILERS SPOILERS
*******************

"Naomi" is the name of the new female character appearing in Episode 17, a parachutist played by a very British Marsha Thomason. Did Penny send her? Or did the failsafe key send out a beacon to the DHARMA rescue forces?

Also, according to Elizabeth Mitchell (TV Guide), an insightful & heartbreaking Juliet flashback is coming up in Episode 16 next week. Tonight, Locke abandons Kate & takes off with The Others while Hurley gets preachy with Sawyer:

http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/

Juliet shows off some karate skills in tonight's episode. Here's the CTV preview:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1mfbt_left-behind-promo-cdn

******************
END OF SPOILERS
******************

my-2-cents

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

Happy Lost Day!

[Radzinsky]

Those whisper transcripts are INTERESTING. Have you all had a chance to check them out? I'm rambling towards a new theory because of them... let's call it:

**ISLAND TELEPATHY**

This might sound far-fetched at first, but hear me out for a minute and let me know what you think. What if the whispers that wander through the jungle aren't actually whispers? What if they are actually thoughts?

For this idea, I was drawn to some of the whispers that were picked up in Part 2 of the pilot episode, as Sawyer pulls the federal marshal's gun on the polar bear and shoots him down. During the scene where the polar bear is charging, the transcript of the whispers has the following phrases:

"I see something coming. Get up. Get up. Get up."
"What's he doing?"
"No way he can stop me. The bullets are too weak."
"Stay down."
"How'd he sneak a gun."

Now during that scene, we know that no one was actually SAYING these things. But, if you think back, we can sort of pinpoint who among the Losties might have been THINKING these things.

The "get up, get up, get up" and/or "stay down" could be from Shannon, who fell over just before the polar bear was charging. Sayid, Charlie or anyone really could have been thinking "What's he doing" as Sawyer stood directly in front of the bear charge. And Kate or Sayid might have clearly been thinking "How'd he sneak a gun."

Most interesting here, though, is the "No way he can stop me, the bullets are too weak." No Lostie was thinking or saying that while the bear was charging -- that comment quite clearly comes from the bear himself. And, as we know our polar bear friend won't be directly verbalizing anything, the bear is clearly THINKING that the bullets are too weak to stop him.

So, if we agree that those whispers in the background are really thoughts, what does that tell us about the Island generally?

I think it means that when we hear whispers in any circumstance -- whether it's Sayid in the jungle, or the tail section surivors making their way to the beach, or Sawyer in the jungle -- what these folks are really hearing are associated thoughts from people nearby or from the Island generally. What we have going on here is some low-level telepathy.

Consider a later incidence of "whispering" in the show -- when Ben is being held captive by Sayid and Analucia and he's giving his story as Henry Gale. According to the transcript, there are lots and lots of whispers in the background, and they are *coaching* Ben as to the details of his story as Henry Gale -- the size of the hot air balloon, where he landed, etc.

Clearly, we know that nobody was in the cell with Ben while he was giving this story, but the "whispers" from the transcript sound very much like certain Others who are giving him advice on how to make his story effective -- a la Cyrano de Bergerac. But how are these voices present? How are they coaching Ben?

The answer lies in one of the mysteries of the Island. I believe that based on all of the whsipers/thoughts embedded in the background that the Island is somehow reading and/or communicating and/or broadcasting people's thoughts. We know that the Island is a place of mysterious power -- one of these powers involves telepathy.

The Others, having lived on the Island for a very long time, are in tune with this low-level telepathy and have learned to harness it to a certain extent. It's what enables them to be such good con men -- and it may even be what dictates the power structure within the Others.

Ben has certainly shown an almost uncanny ability to understand what makes people tick. He knew that there was tension between Jack and Locke, he knew that Jack would do the spinal surgery, knew that Kate and Sawyer would become romantically involved, knew that Sawyer could be frightened into good behavior with the faux pacemaker, he knew that Locke could be relied upon to blow up the submarine and he even seemed to know that Michael was coming back to affect his rescue. That's an awfully good track record for someone to just be a "good" judge of character.

I am suggesting that Ben, and probably some other Others as well, are at least somewhat telepathic. It's why Ben is hearing thoughts and being "coached" while he's facing interrogation from Sayid and Analucia. I think that, telepathically, Ben was probably connected somehow to the Others during his entire stay as a prisoner in the Swan.

Who knows? Perhaps this means that Jacob, being such a "great" man, is great because of some mental powers?

Now, I realize that stepping back from this theory, it looks like a longshot and seems sort of kooky. But take a look at the transcript link above for yourself, and see if the whole "whispers as thoughts" idea resonates for you. If it does, the things that I've outlined above all follow simply from that conclusion.

Sorry for the length of the post -- love to hear everyone's thoughts.

~Radzinsky

[Nash]

Very cool theory. The "coaching" whispers could also have been Ben's internal thoughts as he's trying to keep his story straight and come up with details to make it sound plausible.

[Radzinsky]

@ Nash

Very true. Even if it is just Ben's thoughts while he's in the cell, it does give us reason to question why the writers want to embed the thoughts of certain characters in the background noise of the show.

But we also can't ignore the times when certain Losties hear the whispers. Doesn't that mean that they are experiencing some low-level telepathy while wandering in the jungle? That somehow they are able to hear the thoughts that the Island may be broadcasting at that moment?

~Radzinsky

[my-2-cents]

Kudos to Radzinsky! I think that's the best fleshed-out theory on the Whispers I've heard to date. Now, I'd love to renew some discussion on the nature of the Smoke Monster following tonight's episode. No need to "blow your brains out" if nothing materializes, though.

my-2-cents

[Thomas Sydenham]

@ Radzinsky

I am almost certain you are correct. I have been reading over the whispers for a while and that never crossed my mind. I was so frustrated trying to make sense of fragments of thoughts as conversation. The writers and editing to their credit do I go job of making it seem like it's coming from somewhere else. But it makes sense that it's just peoples thoughts and the more intune with the Island in that sense you become the more you are able to hear them is an intriuging possibility.

After reading your post I did a quick glance and I did not read one transcript where yout theory is not at least possible if not probable. Good Job. I also like this theory because it solves a mystery of sorts without fully taking the element out of the mythological equation.

[jg]

@ Radz,
brilliant.

[Radzinsky]

Thanks for the kind words, guys.

Really, I'm just gunning to be one of those posters like Nash, jg, Kathy aka Fangirl and Cihan who "everyone" has to read. ;)

I've posted a few theories before, I don't know if you all caught them. They were:

(1) Rosseau is the Last Dharma
(2) Others Can't Have Kids
(3) Locke is the Island's Avatar
(4) Smokey Animates Dead People

The fourth theory isn't anything earth-shattering, but it's also sort of relevant to tonight's episode, now that we know that he's coming through one of his "Cerberus Vents" tonight. It ties in to the "whispers" discussion we're having as well.

So... @ Thomas, 2-cents & Nash

Let's bounce some ideas around a bit regarding Smokey, given that we think there's some sort of telepathic force or energy on the Island. Is Smokey that source? Or is it the Island and Smokey is some sort of manifestation of the energy?

I've always been in the camp that thinks that Smokey/Cerberus is a tool rather than a driving force. Rousseau calls Cerberus a security system, which implies that someone controls it, rather than it being an independent force of its own. In that same vein, I don't think we can ignore all of the mechanical clicks, cranks and whirrs that Cerberus makes as it moves around the jungle. It definitely sounded as though Locke was being ratcheted down one of the Cerberus Vents when he told Jack to let him go late in season one.

Despite that mechanical, perhaps servile nature of Cerberus, there's quite probably a telepathic side to him as well. The first time that Cerberus encounters Mr. Eko, it envelops his head and flashes snapshots of Eko's most dramatic memories. Was it reading Eko's mind? Eko's memories? His thoughts? It certainly seems that way, doesn't it?

Assuming that Cerberus can read minds in such a manner -- perhaps in the same manner that the Losties and the Others are hearing whispers/thoughts in the jungle -- is that how it is potentially animating the corpses of Christian Shepard and Yemi? By reading Jack and Eko's thoughts, does Cerberus know what Christian Shepard and Yemi should be doing?

~Radzinsky

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

@Radz

I like the first part of the theory about the whisphers being peoples thoughts.

However, if Ben were telepathic, then he would have known that Sayid would dig up the grave and bust him. He seemed genuinely surprised Sayid would do that. I think he "knows" people like House "knows" his patients or that Shawn Spencer (Psych) can pretend to be psychic.

[Osbo]

Got an idea about "Expose", don't know if this has been discussed -

That "Corvette" episode never aired. With the deaths of Zuckerman and the disappearance and probable death of Nikki Fernandez on Flight 815 (or whatever, depending on the alternate timeline theory), the episode had to be re-shot and thus, the revelation about the Cobra delayed another season.

Too soon.

[Radzinsky]

Whoa... sorry for the double post, but I just wanted to toss this out there:

**CERBERUS IS THE OTHERS' PERSONAL SECURITY SYSTEM**

Screw that sonic fence. The Others control Smokey and they use him for protection. They use him for all sorts of purposes. I'm making this one up as I go, but I'm sort of excited about it. See what you think.

The foundation of this theory is that, as I said above, the Others have some sort of mild telepathic ability -- or at least some way to interface with the Island's mysterious powers -- and that Cerberus also functions using some of that mysterious energy. I'm wondering if the Others' connection to that telepathy allowed them to originally create, and now control, Cerberus.

Here's my evidence, and it covers almost the whole Lost mythology (so apologies again for the width and breadth). I'll try to go in some chronological order:

(1) Cerberus encounters the crash survivors immediately

What happens as soon as the Others see Flight 815 break apart overhead? Ben orders Goodwin and Ethan to make their way to the camps of survivors, to take down lists of names. But right away on the first night, we also hear Cerberus rumbling through the jungle. Could it have been gathering information on the survivors as it gathered information about Eko? At least enough to let the Others know who was present on their Island? (If anyone else has information they think contributes to this first point, share it, because I don't think I'm getting it all here)

(2) Cerberus goes to the cockpit

Jack, Charlie and Kate wander off to the cockpit, to try and find a transponder so that they can signal help. Smokey's all over it. Why? Because the Others want to keep the survivors away from the cockpit and all that equipment like nobody's business. In the same way that they don't want the survivors to have a sailboat and have been extremely protective of every bit of information that the survivors know, they sure as sh!t don't want the survivors to contact the outside world. What's another way they make sure that doesn't happen? They take out the pilot! I was always struggling for a reason to understand why the pilot died immediately... it wasn't like he was being judged like Eko... there wasn't enough time for him to really have merited any attention from Smokey or the Others... unless the mere fact that he was a *pilot* was enough to have him killed. The Others had their security system Cerberus get to the cockpit, take out the pilot, and then chase Jack, Kate and Charlie away from the part of the plane that had the most sophisticated navigation and communication equipment -- perfectly in tune with what we know the Others' motivations to be.

(3) Cerberus animates Jack's Dad

This is under some debate, but there are enough of us out there to think that Cerberus takes the form of, or animates, dead people -- Jack's Dad and Yemi included. With Jack's Dad, I think the Others have realized that Jack isn't on Jacob's list -- meaning he's one of the good guys, and that Christian Shepard can be used to help Jack out... to lead him to fresh water and the caves.

(4) Cerberus encounters Locke

Locke is another one that the Others' like -- Ben has said so on multiple occasions now. And, continuing with the Others' control of Cerberus theme, Cerberus encounters Locke in the jungle the first time Locke is hunting for boar. Locke looks into the center of Cerberus and says that what he saw was "beautiful". Later, because Locke is one of the "good ones" the Others have decided that they want him. We now know that Ben knew that he had cancer and that Locke had regained use of his legs... and that Ben wanted Locke to help him understand how it was that the Island was helping his health. Is it such a stretch to imagine that when Cerberus was trying to pull Locke down into one of its Vents, it was really the Others trying to get an early hold of Locke, to bring him over to their camp?

(5) Rousseau calls Cerberus a "security system"

This is sort of the obvious support for the theory here, but it deserves a little more credence since we can be pretty sure that Rosseau is more involved with Dharma and the Others than she previously said. If Rousseau is really the last Dharma, as I suspect, then she knows more about Cerberus than she says. If she calls it a security system, she's probably right... and if she's Dharma and she's scared of Cerberus, it likely also means that the Others control Cerberus, and that's why she needs to stay away from it... just as she stays away from the Flame Station and the Others' village.

(6) Cerberus encounters Eko

What does Eko do before he meets Smokey for the first time? He kills two Others who are trying to kidnap him, but he also saves children from drowning. Eko's past is similarly conflicted... he is an African crimelord, but only because he saved his brother from the same life. Therefore, when Eko goes in to meet Ben for the first time, and he cuts off the two braids he was growing from his chin, Ben is shocked. He doesn't know how to react, because even with the Others' telepathy Eko is still a very morally conflicted character. The Others then order Cerberus to take a real interest in Eko, and just after he meets Ben, he meets Smokey, who reads his mind. Soon after that, we meet Yemi -- as he appears on the Island -- fresh out of the biplane smuggling heroin.

Fast forward to Eko's finale with Cerberus -- what does Yemi/Cerberus really want to know? It wants to know if Eko regrets the violence that he's committed in his life, the murders of the various people in Africa and the two Others that he killed on the Island. Eko's response? He did what he had to do to survive. When Yemi refuses Eko's almost-confession, Eko realizes that he is not really speaking to his brother. But who is he speaking to? I think he's speaking to the Others, who until that point were unsure whether Eko was a good guy or a bad guy. When Eko refuses to repent, he is judged -- by the Others -- to be a villain and too dangerous to be left alive. And that's why Cerberus kills Eko -- at the Others' behest. Whispering "you're next" to Locke with his final words doesn't necessarily mean that Cerberus is coming for Locke in a violent or threatening way -- it could simply mean that the Others want Locke because of his connection to the Island, as reviewed above.

* * * * *

Anyway, really sorry for the length this time, but when things start to fit together, the words just keep coming.

If any of you can think of other examples/reasons why Cerberus might be under the Others control, I'd really like to hear them.

And I hope this next missive is at least reasonably on target.

~Radzinsky

[jg]

@ Radz,
On the contrary I think you are one of the posters that everyone reads ( I'm not on that list) I'm on the “he posts a lot” list. (I have some time off)

Anyway, the smoke monster is the security arm of the Island itself. Maybe it has learned mechanical sounds from the construction machines employed by DHARMA. Like a Mynah bird learns sounds (even mechanical sounds).
It then uses these sounds when it is in threatening mode.

[jg]

@ Radz,
To the contrary. I think the Island is the boss of Cerberus and its hates the Others. The Others are threatened by something, and I think it is Cerberus. They have to sneak silently around the Island in daylight.

Cerberus has constraints.
• Can’t function at night
• Must keep a singular point of continuity with the ground. (Thus it cannot jump the fence)

Cerberus is like a dog that can’t get that stupid cat on the other side of the fence in the back yard. In it’s pissed off state, a disturbance occurs in the front yard…like a jet crashing…it then attacks and threatens before it sizes up the intruders.

Hypothetical hyperbole=fun

[JackedupLockedown]

@ Jg, Radz

Here are my thoughts on the Security System\Smokey\Cerberus as of now based on your conjecture

1. Controled by people now or at some point

2. Ben's Others fear it

3. It manifests it's self visually and audiably based on knowledge it compiles from observation and inspection;

4. It has some sort of relationship to the whispers (I love the telepathy angle, I think it's dead on) It even [asses the Razors test.

5. Able to adapt and change it's apparence in a moments notice

In the end I am moving towards a new wrinkle in my theory that suggests Rousseau is one of the other "others" this could be the origin of her relationship to Alex. Perhaps Rousseau and Ben were both natives to the Island and their group split; I am not willing to say I believe it yet, but I am certainly starting to think Rousseau or the group she is affliated with has some control over the smoke monster. After all she is the only person we know of that lives amongst it seemingly without conflict. Maybe Ben really is Alex's father and Rousseau her mother, I had dismissed this possability until recently. Anyway that's my two sense about it. I like the discussion we are having here, a nice lead in to tonights episode.

[Nash]

@jg,

Totally! Radz is a theory generating class all his own.

@Radz,

I definitely agree that Rousseau's interpretation of Cerberus is more than likely spot on. I think it's pretty standard narrative irony that the crazy one is also the most insightful. However, I think Cerberus is the Island's security system and not necessarily the Others'. Remember, the Island has a very long history (four-toed statue, Black Rock, etc) that predates any of the current inhabitants. I think the Others could be looking to control Smokey (maybe by harnessing telepathic powers, esp. Walt's) but I don't think they control it yet. That would make them too powerful. Who could defeat you with Smokey on your side???

The real question is what is the security system protecting the Island from? Is it just to keep itself from being discovered (hence killing the pilot) and exploited by the likes of Dharma (maybe killing Roger Workman)? Or is it much more important and trying to affect the fate of the world (e.g. Valenzetti eq.) or take sides in a war between good and evil (e.g. Others vs Dharma)?

I also think Locke will come to serve an equally important role in the show and might even be Smokey in human form (or at least share the same goals). While he seems like a dolt pushing buttons on a computer in the jungle, setting off the Flame's self-detonation sequence, blowing up the sub, etc., I think there's much more to his story and purpose. While he was constantly being played off the Island, he's Obi-Locke on it, and only when his faith has wavered (questioning the button) has he fallen. I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out to be Jacob and enemy to the Losties the same way the Cobra turned out to be the leader of the bad guys. Or on a slight twist, maybe Smokey is breeding/selecting the perfect human sentinel to further its own purposes. Eko was in the running, but his non-repentant ways made Locke the better choice so he was eliminated. I think Locke, Smokey, and the Island are connected in some deep way that we have yet to discover.

[Radzinsky]

@ jg

I certainly like reading your posts. ;P

Cerberus most definitely can function at night. The first night that the survivors are on the beach, they see the palm trees shaking and hear the noises in the woods -- we know that was Smokey.

I am also 50/50 on whether he has to keep a singular point of continuity with the ground. As for Cerberus' main body -- yes, I think it does have to maintain contact with the ground, and I'd also go so far as to say that it has to maintain contact with it's main body or main housing underground, beneath the "Cerberus Vents." However, we have also seen small wisps of smoke scoot through the air from time to time, most notably in Eko's episodes. They are definitely not connected to the ground, but they also might not be parts of the "main" Cerberus.

The basic point of my very long post above was that for EVERY action that we've seen Cerberus take on the Island, I can come up with a reason for why the Others would want it to happen: (1) scouting the plane crash; (2) killing the pilot; (3) herding Jack, Kate and Charlie away from the cockpit; (4) meeting and almost kidnapping Locke; (5) leading Jack to fresh water in the form of Jack's Dad; (6) reading Eko's memories and finally judging him in the form of Yemi... the Others could concievably want all of these things to happen.

And, if we: (1) believe that the "whispers" are really thoughts, (2) that Cerberus is in tune with that sort of almost-telepathy, and (3) that the Others are in tune with it as well (how else could Ben hear the "whispers" while being held in the hatch), then I think it isn't too much of a stretch to suggest that the Others can interface with Cerberus and to some extent, control it.

Now of course, I will be proven wrong and will look like a retard again -- I think last week I endorsed Doc Jensen's theory that Nikki and Paulo were Shannon and Boone reincarnated. ;)

~Radzsinsky

[Radzinsky]

@ JackedupLockedown

Hmm... if Smokey was on your side, you're saying that nobody could beat you. Know what? I agree with you. And maybe this is the reason that during the Purge, when the Others and Dharma went at it, Dharma got the losing end and were forced off the Island?

I like your theory on Rosseau, but try this one on for size. In brief... Rousseau is the last Dharma. We know this for a few reasons:

(1) She knows who's in the Flame hatch, knows what's in the Others' village and stays away

(2) She previously says "this is where Montagne" lost an arm. Who do we know that lost an arm? Marc Wickman/Marvin Candle from the orientation videos. If he's the one who lost an arm (probably during the Purge), and Rousseau knew him, then since he's definitely Dharma, she might be too.

(3) The distress call from 16 years ago... approximately 1988... what might have been happening at that time? The Purge. Rousseau says "They're dead, they're all dead, it killed them all." Could she be talking about her Dharma friends here? Smokey, controlled by the Others, took out all the remaining Dharma people in the final act of the Purge?

(4) Why doesn't Rousseau leave? Could you leave your child behind? The rest of Dharma fled -- maybe except for the Swan hatch, to make sure that the button kept getting pushed -- but Rousseau stayed behind for Alex. I do believe that Ben might be Alex's actual father, and that's why Rousseau is still on the Island.

@ Nash

I am completely with you on Locke. Obi-Locke is a great way to put it. What I was really surprised about last week and the week before was that no one mentioned what I believe to be the single most important event in Locke's interaction with the Island, and the event that most informs us of why he's acting this way now:

It's when Locke looks directly into Cerberus.

That moment is absolutely key. Locke says he's seen into the "soul" of the Island. I think Cerberus showed it to him... or whatever he saw in Cerberus gave him an insight into the Island that he hasn't shared yet. I just know we're going to be treated to a backstory that shows what happens when Locke is out hunting boar for the first time. Maybe Cerberus envelops Locke's head as it did Eko's and it shows him details of his past that even he didn't know.

Whatever happened, it restored Locke's sense of purpose and gave him direction on the Island. And, as we saw last week, he thinks that the Others -- their structures, their technology -- are like pests on the Island, they don't belong. In that way, we see aboriginal Locke -- the one who was ready to go on Walkabout and gain his spiritual and physical sustenance off the land. That's the Locke that's on the Island now, and I think, for better or worse, he's the Island's avatar -- the person chosen to do the Island's bidding, to take the Island's side, to ensure it's health. Et cetera. :)

~Radzinsky

[SMKGrl]

And I thought I totally geek'd out doing the Lost puzzle...

http://bp1.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/RhKq_WGYabI/AAAAAAAADTs/uyX7wjJjKNk/s1600-h/443985566_f75c81c5d1.jpg

[Lmnop]

there are LOST legos??? how did i not know about this!!! and where do you get them???

[Lmnop]

oh nevermind, i dont think thats a real dharma logo. hah

[SMKGrl]

Here's some more...

http://multiseries.blogspot.com/2007/04/lost-in-lego.html

[Bored at work]

Did they glue on Hurley a disc on his shirt to make him look fat? ROFL

[Nash]

@Radzinsky,

Sorry, I was off the grid last week and missed "Locke is the Island's Avatar". Have to go searching for the post now...

[jg]

@ Radz,
Totally with you on Locke and other theories (except Cerb.)
Others=Scabies
Locke=Kwell

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

Since I'm on my whole (wo)man of science kick, I've been trying to figure out how smokey might be working from a non-scifi type stance.

What if the black cloud of smoke we're seeing isn't what we're seeing? What if we're seeing what the character is seeing? Meaning what if we're not seeing things as a third party? What if it didn't actually pick up Ekko? Ekko was found dead on the ground. He could have had a heart attack, but in his mind envisioned it picking him up and thrashing him around. What if the smoke is like a naturally occuring hallucinagenic (sp?)? The people who see the same visions like the horse are both being exposed to it at the same time. So Kate says "see that black horse?" and Sawyer sees the black horse. It would explain why some visions are shared and some are only for that person.

Kind of a weak theory, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

[JackedupLockedown]

@ Radz

I don't know about Rosseau being Dharma, but we can be sure she is not completly honest or at least lying by ommision. We know the Purge happened in 1993 or later because Mikhail was present for it, so that can not be the reason for her distress call. Still it's worth thinking about for sure, Are we sure that is her voice in the distress signal?

I have a sort of Dharma\Swan Hatch Timeline I want to repost to help aid this conversation as showtime approaches...So here goes:

A BRIEF (or not so brief) HISTORY OF THE ISLAND A.S. (After Swan)

1980: Operations of Swan station begin. A two man team arrives scheduled to stay for three years working in shifts pushing a button every 108 minutes to ensure another “incident” does not occur.

1981: December 7th Hanso Group Delegation inspection; to assure no risk of future incidents. Site on the blast door map corresponds with location of a Crater on the Island.

1983: First group of unknown Dharma initiative members complete their three year stay in the Swan and return home
-Later that year Radzinsky arrives along presumably a partner as at this time the program would seem to be running smoothly. Unless Radzinsky had been there from the start evidence suggests Blast door map was started by someone who was present in 1981.

1984: October 28th Suspected shutdown date as indicated on the blast door map. Could be referring to shutdown of portion of the Dharma initiative on that part of the Island. Factors leading to this include 1) lack of progress or the direction the initiative was headed. 2) A more agitated hostile presence on the Island. The Islands inhabitants may have been used as test subjects in some of the studies being done on the Island as well as the nuisance the Dharma people surely were to their previous way of life.

1985: AH\MDG incident: This may be the most important event in the Island’s recent history prior to the 815 survivor’s arrival and it’s shrouded in mystery. While I agree it is likely that this is an abbreviation for Alvar Hanso (AH) and the De Groots (DG) (M?). I also theorize that this is when Ben and those who followed him either sided with or more likely performed a coup to dethrone the De Groots. As this happened some natives join Ben’s group and infiltrate the Dharma camps and begin use the technological tools of the Island in lieu of the spiritual ones, and others choose to continue to live in the primitive fashion they apparently had prior to Dharma arrival.

Somehow I think this is the reason for the Black Smoke and why it seems to judge you and resolve your fate based on your loyalty (or usefulness maybe) to the Island. It is still uncertain if the Black smoke is a creation of Dharma another group or has manifested itself as a part of the Island mythology.

1987: Hanso realizes the De Groots and Dharma has lost control and leaves the program for dead. Somehow the radicals who still believe in the chance to change to variables in the Valenzetti equation are able to secretly keep the project running because of the funding on a new partner…My guess Widmore Labs.

Shortly after: With the help of Widmore the Radical die-hards now running Dharma release some sort of agent into the atmosphere of the Island in hopes it will eliminate the hostile presence. The results however vary as it does kill some people, but in the long-term renders all infertile. Because the Dharma initiative is not sure how long the fatal component will last they require members of the Initiative to continue following the injection protocol as long as the operation lasts.

Needing to protect itself and assure the preservation of its inhabitants the Island starts drawing people to it, hence Leonard hearing the numbers in early 1988 and all the accidents that have followed Yemi’s plane, Desmond, The Balloon, 815 etc.

1988: The Dharma initiative continues to operate in a limited capacity as only essential stations are kept running as the barracks probably some of the hatches (Staff for sure) have been commandeered. Rousseau and here crew arrive on the Island and most fall prey to the sickness as they spend all their time in the open air. The Island is able to protect Rousseau however because she brings the hope of new life being pregnant.

1991-1993: Radzinsky’s partner, having been killed or captured or who knows is gone now and is replaced by a member of a new batch of more militant recruits. Kelvin (I also theorize this is when Mikhail arrives on the Island.) Armories are established at the Swan and Hydra stations in preparation for the already planned and impending purge. These new recruits learn from the old ones that there is no returning and how long they have been there and this explains the sarcastic way in which people like Inman and Mikhail refer to the Dharma initiative.

Later in 1993: THE PURGE: What’s left of Dharma decides to attempt to rid themselves of the hostiles and likely former Dharma members turned sympathizers or maybe vice versa. ("it doesn’t matter who we we’re just who we are") In the process they lose control of the Hydra station and its armories, the Animals escape and what’s left of them either flees in a hippy van, joins Bens Crew or takes door number three (you don’t want door number three)

Post purge; approx 1996: Radzinsky bits the bullet having continued to explore the Island continuing work on the map and realizing there is no one is else left and no one coming to replace him.
"No man is an Island"… but now Inman is one on one

1999: Desmond Crashes on the Shore line Inman retrieves him and his boat which he hides in a nearby cove. Desmond comes to doesn’t solve the Snowman riddle and begins his career as a button pushing second in command.

2001: Now realizing that their utopian world will collapse otherwise the others we know begin recruit Juliet in the hope that she can solve their fertility problem. Certainly she is not the only person they recruit...

2004: Flight 815 Crashes

[ebonX]

Happy LOST day/evening all ...

Great podcast (as always) ... The LOSTcast Triumvirate rule all podcasts!

@Thomas - Can I place a C-note on Cihan with a hedge bet on 'anyone else'? ... ;-D

@Radzinsky - Subj: Whispers Theory - This is great ... I agree that the whispers are people's thoughts. Just one thing to add, the whispers are not always heard by people or the Others. Sometimes, we (the audience) cannot hear them initially ... Only after they have been filtered by audio gurus on the Fuselage, etc. IMHO, the whispers are the first dialogue from TPTB to the audience. When they are clearly audible (without any need for filtering), then I believe they are heard by the Losties as a sort of "uncontrolled telepathy". Now, someone like Ben or Locke may be able to "hear" more whispers than most of our Losties b/c they are in-tune with the Island ... Just my 2 cents. Hope that made sense.

Subj: Smoke Monster - I have 2 theories about the Smoke Monster ... (1) He is the physical manifestation/servant of the island ... Thinking comparatively as an angel is to God. I just watched 'Dogma', so thinking along those lines ... or (2) Smokey is the manifestation of the "box" due to someone on the island. The creation of Smokey may be the "Incident" that we know occurred in the 80's. Although I do not really like this theory as I believe the "Incident" was the creation of "anomaly" in the Swan Hatch (due to the "box")

Subj: Who is Jacob? - I do not believe that Jacob is Smokey ... My theory is that Jacob is a title, not a name. I believe it is given to the "religious leader" of the Others ... The one who leads them thru divine interaction with the island. This leads to my "Super Crazy Locke Theory" ... Locke did not blow up the sub (as ppl have suspected). He is going to use it to oust Ben from power and become the leader of the Others and thus Locke=Jacob!!

That's all ... Stay LOST.

[rok]

just saw the episode here in canada. i won't post spoilers, but i will say that i can't imagine people not liking this episode. it's got a little bit of everything (well, i guess it'll annoy someone who wants a LOT of something rather than a little of everything).

can't wait for the lostcast. many thanks!

[JackedupLockedown]

How the hell does Canada get the show before us. That's BS, first they go and have superior Beer and now they get to see Lost before US tax paying Americans. I say we strike Ottawa before the year is over...

@ rok

I live in Detroit, until 9\11 we used to go to Windsor almost every weekend to shop or eat, great place great people.

[Sobaika]

For those who have seen tonight's episode, anyone have a timeline of how Kate's flashback went? I get that her life of crime began with the murder of her stepdad, but when did she get married, when did tonight's episode take place..?

I'm kinda confused about her flashbacks (maybe because I don't really find them interesting) but I would like to know the order and what not. Thanks in advance!

[my-2-cents]

I love the good vibe up here tonight! Some of the posts make me wonder if Smokey really is the security system, working for an ominous character lurking "behind the curtain (a la "Wizard of Oz"). This mysterious unseen benefactor (a la Captain Nemo in Jules Verne's "Mysterious Island") whose presence only the dog is aware of at first, is in fact JACOB!!! However, Jacob is in a struggle against Ben's Other's for dominance (?) and keeps them at arms length (using Smokey) so that Ben can't read his "brilliant" thoughts. Since thier arrival, Jacob has had in mind how he wants to use the Losties to defeat Ben's schemes, even putting them on a LIST of some sort that Ben has hijacked using his extra-perceptive WHISPER abilities. The LIST is a critical bit of intelligence needed to help Jacob's cause, and Ben has now gotten Locke on his side to foil Jacob. Not unlike the Star Wars mythologies and interplay with Anakin, Luke, Obiwan, etc. Didn't Ben's arrival on the Pala Ferry at the end of Season 2 remind anyone of Palpatine's triumphant and ominous arrival on Naboo? His grand plan (as would-be Emperor) was just coming together at that point. Time will tell.

my-2-cents

[Lrg1974]

Sobaika - I think she got married after she met Clementine. someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
AWESOME episode...

[alex's slingshot]

ahhh that was awesome! so we know that the fence can be turned on and off, and that it can keep out smokey.

those flashes when the smoke monster came were like camera flashes, no?

kate and juliet are awesome together.

i really like kate's backstory this time. we didn't necessarily learn anything new (well that she has yet another crossover with sawyer), but it really kicked ass in the character development/motivation department.

SPOILER IF YOU DON'T WATCH THE PREVIEWS FOR NEXT WEEK!!!

omg, I CANNOT WAIT FOR NEXT WEEK! i thought another Juliet flashback would be to soon, but now it looks like we might get a lot more of the Other story filled in from Juliet's perspective from Claire's kidnapping to Ethan looking evil in a hoody (Charlie parallel anyone?)

[Tahir]

An OK episode.
So the big(?) question, has Juliet been 'planted' with our Losties.

@Sobaika
On first viewing I'm guessing its after the 'horse' incident when she escapes from the cop and before she visits her mother in hospital.I'm sure someone in here will correct that if its wrong.
Btw, I'm with you - I've never been very fond of Kate flashbacks.

[scott]

Joop said:
My first thought was oh sh-- another Kate flashback, but I'm hoping that 'Left Behind' will breathe some life into that story line. We might even learn who Kate's husband was looking for in Tampa, Sawyer? Cooper?
-----
unfortunately it was a crappy backstory that really didn't move us anywhere.... sorry joop, it probably was a let down for you as well

[alex's slingshot]

so Locke's the "Cobra" huh? Interesting...

maybe he didn't blow up the sub and took all the Other with him out to sea! i doubt it though...

[Mindriot]

One word: LAME.

I think it's time to retire Kate's backstory. Nothing important came out of this one. The whole deal with Kate's mom being pissed at her could've been shown quickly in a previous episode flashback, and at this point who cares? The Clementine connection is probably a pointless coincidence.

I wish there weren't so many Niki & Paolo haters out there to get them killed off, because I found them to be far more interesting than Kate.

No need to speed up the story too much, but c'mon let's move on to something fresh.

Oh, and these love triangle themes are getting OLD.

Needs more 4-toed statues!

[alex's slingshot]

i like kate. i think she kicks ass. i don't care if she chooses sawyer or jack or neither or both, but i'm invested in her character. i'm happy with all of the juliet character development we're getting--she's quickly becoming one of my favorite characters. there was a lot of interesting stuff we learned/can speculate about this episode:

1. The sonic fence protects against Smokey and the Others can turn the fence on and off, but don't really know what Smokey is
2. Smokey apparently comes with a "flash" for those dark and rainy days
3. Juliet is now an honorary Lostie? Or is she a plant by the Others? I hope the latter is not true, personally
4. Locke is The Cobra! ACK! What an asshole. Seriously. I feel bad for him, but if I were on the island and knew what I know as a viewer I'd punch him in his smug little face.
5. Kate has more in common with Sawyer than she realizes
6. Things on the beach are about to get crazy

[JackedupLockedown]

My main man Locke is making his move...This is getting good

[LostLad]

It looks like Juliet entered some of "the numbers" on the keypad to activate the sonic security fence. We see her enter 16 and 23, but the 5 key is also dirty. (presumably from the mud on her fingers. No other keys are dirty. Can we assume that the code for the fence is 15 16 23?
Namaste

[Old Man Gout]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned, but I'm leaning toward the idea that there are 2, yes 2, "monsters". First, I'll go back to the Locke/Eko converstion where Eko basically says that he's seen what we've all seen as the black smoke, whereas Locke saw a bright white light (and if you see the game Kate was playing during this episode -backgammon- it kinda hints, again, at the black/white theme). Anyway, back to my point, when Juliette and Kate come across the first "monster" episode Juliette freaks out at the noise (the kinda Jurassic Park noise) and there are white flashes of light and she basically indicates that she has no flipping clue as to what they just saw. On the flipside, when the second encounter happens there is an entirely different noise (what we all know as the Predator-like clicking that is associated with Smokey) and Juliette knows EXACTLY what it is and how to fight it. Was she faking the night before? I don't think so because her fear seemed genuine. Additionally, the first encounter ended safely with only the flashing lights but the second ended a bit more violently with the sonic fence because the black smoke seems more malevolent. Hence 2 "monsters"!!!!!

[Old Man Gout]

Oh, and I love Locke, but seriously, WTF is going on with him!??!?!?!?!?

[Bekka]

Okay, Here's my big Lost thought for the week....
Locke = Jacob (which I know some people are speculating), but here's what I'm thinking.... You know the plotline which has been done over and over again....there's this group of people and they worship these gods, and they have a legend that says this god will return some day in human form and save them all? This plot has been done over and over again, so I'm going to assume we are all familiar. So, maybe the Other's "jacob" is their savior, and they think they've found him in Locke and have been given proof that it's him because of Locke's unexplainable connection to the island? Thoughts anyone?

[Old Man Gout]

Man, did I make my point about the 2 monsters? What I was trying to say is that it seems as if the show is desperately trying to show that there are truly 2 distinct monsters. They have different sounds (Jurassic Park vs. Predator) and actions (ripping up trees and flashing white light vs. appearing as smoke and killing people) and they both elict different reactions from our characters. And, seriously, the fact that Juliette didn't know what was going on in the first encounter (especially asking if they were safe) vs. knowing how to combat and force away the monster during the second encounter just proved to me that there are 2 different and separate monster entities.

[Old Man Gout]

Hey, who the hell is Locke to judge someone? He is a gullible sap who is taken advantage of or abandoned by everyone he lets in to his life, yet Kate was just trying to protect herself and her mother. I'd blow the dirty bastard up too. I guess the fact that Locke never tried to kill his Dad no matter how much poop he piled on Locke's shoulders gives him the right to act all high and mighty, huh? Ergh.

[Old Man Gout]

The back story was really funny and cute, but kinda pointless since Jack AND Sayid come back next episode. Speaking of next episode, Juliette better give up saom answers man!

[Thomas Sydenham]

@OMG

Only problem is Kate saw the same thing both times, and I just watched it again and you here both noises during both encounters. I liked the idea but I think is safe to say that was the same monster both times in this episode.

[Thomas Sydenham]

Anyone know if there is going to be a Podcast tonight?

[Old Man Gout]

okay, i concede that the noises are the same BUT I still think that there are 2 monsters....I mean, why would Juliette be so freaked the first time.

Oh, and really, Kate just saw the smoke monster get sent away by the fence and Juliette starts to explain it a bit, and all Kate cares about is the frigging key? C'mon!! At least 1 answer man!

[paula]

The cast is ready now.

[riverfr0zen]

I haven't been the biggest fan of Kate's past flashbacks, but I thought this one was pretty good.

It had a lot of emotional relevance to the rest of the episode, it resolved several points in the character's past (e.g. why her mom screamed for help in the cancer ward), it built a lot of emotional cache for the character's future, and it tied in beautifully with Sawyer's past.

It seems to me like most of the people here who found the flashback unsuccessful were looking for mythology revealing details, which I really don't think this was supposed to be about.

[Sobaika]

@roverfr0zen

On the contrary, I wasn't really looking for mythology at all. I just think her and her criminal past are boring. *shrug*

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

Okay, well my theory on the monster is out the window after this ep. Oh well, I tried.

[lostnewbie]

I think this episode was soooo wonderful because it incorporated so much new information about the Island mythology, the Others, and character histories!

a few points:
1. For the people who weren't thrilled by Kate's backstory, I think its important to realize that a big part of lost is the character stories. It can't be mythology, secrets, mysteries every second of every episode. I think it just adds depth to the story and sets lost apart...
2. The backstory actually plopped down a good reference about Saint Lucy, the psedonym that Kate took while on the run. http://www.catholic-forum.com/SAINTS/saintl01.htm
It struck me as a pretty greusome story for martyrdom and I wondered how it might relate to Kate's character (i.e. bad/good)
3. Did anyone else notice how Kate woke up startled throughout the episode? She wakes up with a start when she first realizes she's attached to juliette and she woke up suddenly after the encounter with Smokey the next morning. I think it might be a clue to the theory regarding time being someohow irrelevant on the island, or that in fact the 'flashbacks' aren't really flashacks and are occuring at the same time as island events. In Desmond's flashback episode, he wakes up suddenly also as he skips around in his past/present life. Anyone have thoughts on that?
4. I really didn't understand why Kate and Juliette woke up a whole day earlier than Jack and Sayid. Why did the gas knock them out so hard and not Kate or Juliette (if we believe that she was knocked out by gas in the first place)?
Of course there's always the possibility she's just a big fat liar and she's working with the Others.
I am leaning toward the idea that time is irrelevent/ somehow bent on the island...remember "only fools are slaves to time and space"

lol alright I hope you were able to follow my thoughts. This is my first time posting but I love the podcast and reading the boards each week!