LOSTCasts 52: One of Us

This latest podcast focuses on season 3, episode 16 of LOST, One of Us. In the podcast this week, we talk about Juliet's backstory and return to the losties' beach, including discussions about where the others have gone, the submarine, why Juliet has been "planted" with the losties, the symbol on the tree and its relation to the symbol on Juliet's back, and much more...

Download podcast #52 here

Links related to the podcast:
Wikipedia - Here There Be Tygers
The Fuselage - General Reactions
More on "Kan" symbol on submarine
Screencap of error on Rachel's chart
Wikipedia - Ummo
Wikipedia - Epsilon Team

Until next week... Stay LOST.

Comments

[Dave]

Great podcast guys!

[sean parker]

Hey people who write, produce and direct this - why didn't you put up the link to my site:

www.freewebs.com/thejohnlocke-initiative

[Lance]

Thank you from here in England. Looking forward to this week's podcast more than usual for some reason! Must be because the end of season excitement is starting to build.

[raj]

hey there guys,

i'm willing to put it out there. The tsunami will not affect the island at all.

MY reasoning is that if they put the tsunami as a big event, it will pretty much destroy the island, or a large part of it.

And you can't just be SLIGHTLY affected by the tsunami.

So i dont see them placing the tsunami in the show. Plus, if they are in the pacfic, (which theres like a 90% chance) since they were flying over the pacific AND took a sub from the western seaboard of the USA. Therefore the tsunami wont hit them as it was confined to the indian ocean.

anyways, good show today take care and stay lost.

[Jamie (c)]

@ raj - I agree the Tsunami is not coming, we're in Oz here people. You can only get there by going over (or under) the Rainbow.

[jg]

@ Mark B,
They are talking about how long the series should go.
Tell them how many episodes you think would be appropriate. (poetic)

[AdamLogan]

hey guys, we do know that people can get back and forth from the island. true we don't know about ethan coming back and forth, but richard alpert was off the island recruiting juliet then when juliet is shown her sister in mikhail's station, ben tells richard who is presumably recording Rachel and Julien, to get back to the island. So Richard was on and off and on the island so it is possible (however easy it is may be debatable), but it is possible. the alternate explanation for this is that Rachel and Julien are on the island and for some reason Juliet is not allowed to see them, and it's all an act to keep Juliet in need of Ben. but assuming they are off the island, then richard came back and forth and it is possible.

[Ooh Ooh I'm important!]

@ sean parker

Why should they plug your site since you do it about every time you post something. I am sure if people wanted to check out your site, they would have by now. get over yourself.

[Jack+Sayid=DurtyIslandLuv]

Hey guys, great podcast again.

I just had a quick question for the Lostcasts dudes: do y'all watch Weeds on showtime?

IF you don't you should, its awesome.

Peace.

[Cihan]

1] RIP Vonnegut and Baudrillard, we're losing great minds this year.

2] LOL@bumper sticker tales.

3] I want to pretend to be Civan from New York, just to confuse you guys more.

4] Many good points in this podcast. I thought the observation of Ben's behaviour because of his upbringing, shrewd. Maybe he really was brought up ala Skinner's child, in a professionally psychologically detached way. Was it Dharma related? Even though I think the general consensus is that he was born before Dharma arrived? But maybe the DeGroots arrived by themselves first? And also, good point about the Others losing key people and buildings, but because the Others have Mittlelos we might one day see an influx of new recruits, or even better: mercenaries ala Far Cry or something. (Trigens!!!)

5] As I was thinking (as usual) about the parallels between Lost and The Prisoner, I realised Ben may be Lost's version of Number 2, with Jacob being Number 1. (I guess either all our Losties our Number 6 or maybe one Lostie in particular)

6] Alot of people criticised the first 6 or so episodes this season and were thankful for returning to the beach, but those early episodes are really paying off now for you naysayers, I mean Jack may be a sucker but we can see how he was manipulated into his current position of schmuck (and what a schmuck, he's already forgotten Ben blatantly told him to his face they chose a blonde woman to remind him of his wife). Alot of people also decried the fact that the Others arent mysterious anymore, but I'm glad with the way we saw them mindf*** our Losties, good TV!

[Cameron]

¡Quédese perdido!

[the buzzkill cometh]

@ pink

"Although not very significant to solving any mysteries of LOST, I thought it was a bit interesting that I noticed the song playing in the car when Juliet and her sister had arrived at that building, "Downtown," I believe, was the same song playing in a previous Juliet flashback, which was shown later in the episode with that song playing. I just thought that was kind of weird that the same song was played twice in the episode, and in the earlier Juliet episode..maybe Juliet just really likes that song."

the song was used to draw an emotional connection to rachel. it was the song playing when juiet last saw her sister, so you can now see why it is important to her. the fact that juliet got upset while listening to it shows us that the song is very dear to her for this reason. it was another good example of the writers filling in the gaps - from the very first episode when she was looking in the mirror we were all thinking "why is this women upset?". her sister, and the fact that ben ,just the day before, told her she cant go home is good enough gap-filling for me.

on the whole tsunami issue - it will not come to the island. at least not in the season finale. christmas, according to a number of sources (including the official podcast maybe?), will not fall until the early part of next season, so therefore boxing day wont either.

starting the podcast now...

[Bekka]

You guys are so right! Sayid as the true "lie detector" of the island! Right on! I said 2 things to my boyfriend this week after the episode. The first was that I trust Sayid's insticts 100%, when he says someones lying, he's right. The first time I thought this goes back to when the losties had Ben captured in the swan and Sayid's interrogating him. When he asks him about burying his wife and then goes into the tearful monologue "if you had really buried someone you loved! you would remember every handful of dirt." As soon as he said this I thought...Ben's a liar, and Sayid is someone to listen to. The other thing I said was that I trust Sawyer's insticts too, and I too remembered what he said about Juliette, that she would kill Kate without hesitating. Both Sawyer and Sayid have "made a living" off of being able to read people. I totally trust their instincts when it comes to the people on the island. Whenever either one of them make an observation about someone else on the island....I listen!

[JackedupLockedown]

A few things you should know about the group of people we will eventually meet possibly as soon as this season and maybe even next week though I doubt it. Anyway without further ado I give you “The Others from another Mother”

The Other Others…

1) Are the chosen people of the Island their actions reflect the will of the Island
2) Greatly predate Dharma in terms of their origination on the Island.
3) Control the Cerberus
4) Spend most of their time underground
5) Brought the plane down and are part* responsible for putting the people on that plane on it
6) Are trying to rid themselves of Ben’s group
7) Are the people who attacked the Tailies on the first night taking the blonde guy, the German and the curly haired guy.
8) Are the people we hear talking in the whispers
9) Chose to kill Eko who they had originally brought to help them because he had killed two of their men and still went confronted did not regret his actions.
10) Are the people who we see walking in the woods barefoot in season two
11) Are the ones influencing the Dreams of people on the Island as well as the hallucinations
12) Were referred to as hostiles by Dharma
13) May very well be the group Ben came from
14) Nathan was a member; which explains his long walks into the jungle alone, the fact no one seen him on the plane and Goodwin calling him a “bad” person and killing him.
15) Are same super bad-ass peeps

*To me Jacob is the most evolved member of the Island natives, he is also Ben’s Dad, which I don’t know if the others all know, maybe just the privileged and dedicated are privy. Anyway Jacob is at odds with the Island and has the power to challenge it. (We are to believe both the Island and Jacob can cure cancer) The Island selected a certain group of people to help it carry out its plan to extract the meddling Jacob and his little Benrey too. Foreseeing this Jacob also selected people (perhaps in a different manner) to bring to the Island in an attempt to counter. This explains pregnant Claire and Doc Jack’s arrival just in the nick of time.

Also I won the post 200 bet with 20-1 on jg…pay up TS

Keehler rules
Don't do the podcast without him, we may lose Robert and Matt for good.

[sam]

ok, so I just had a HOLY $H!T moment:
so I duno if you mention this in the podcast but:
if Ben WAS born on the island, how is this possible? I'm assuming that when the mother dies, so does the baby because they said that Claire was the first women to GIVE BIRTH on the island. So did this whole women dieing before birth thing occure after some incident? Purge? Yeah, just putting this out there...unless you guys mention it in the podcast. So yeah. And if this is so, then why didn't Juliet bring this up with Ben? I think that would have been shown.
Stay LOST

- Sam

[argh]

Not sure if this was ever posted before...but...

In the episode Maternity Leave, perhaps Alex saved Claire because she knew Claire would die during child birth because of the "curse". Knowing what we know now, maybe the Others were gonna try to induce labor and deliver the baby in the hopes of saving Claire (which will thus help end the streak of dying pregnant women on the island). Perhaps the others' intention was not to murder Claire for her baby(tho if she died on the OR it would'nt hurt as if one of their own died).

Still shady either way tho...

[Karen]

the records shown to Julia.. odd thing about the heart, and if male - was it the babies or was julia's sister really a "man" at some point.. converted.
something tells me odd things with the sister.. just a thought

[Matt Jone]

I like the idea of Juliet's sister being a post-op transsexual. If you Juliet could make a man give birth I understand why Ben and his crew need her so badly.

[Tahir]

Great podcast - thanks.

Would it not be bad taste to make the tsunami part of Lost. A lot of folks died in that event and imo it really shouldn't be used as part of a TV show.

[Mark B]

subject : tsunami
I agree with Tahir that having the tsumani would be in bad taste. It would make a great season finale but it would not be very understanding of the suffering it caused.

Subject : How long will LOST run ?
Surely LOST will last 108 episodes. It's odd that there are so many different rumours about how long TPTB said they wanted LOST to last for. I'm sure originally they said 5 seasons but I've heard 6 or 7 seasons as well(as mentioned on the cast) yet not that long ago I'm sure D&C said they wanted LOST to be 100 or so episodes in total (108 would be ideal in my book) they could decide to make the 4th season longer by 7 or 8 episodes (to round out to 100) and so start in November and give us a 30 week run to the final finale episode at the end of May.
It would be the a really nice shout to all the fans who have invested so much time in the show to have it be 108 episodes. I'm hoping what may happen is that once we get the 4th season out of the way that will take us to about 94 episodes (counting the season finales as 2). That would leave around 14 to make 108, about half a season. Or just 6 to make the round 100. Six would be enough for some post-rescue (assuming that happens) off island stuff and may make a nice mini-series. Fourteen may be too much for that but there could be one or two episodes per character. The orginal premise was Survivor meets Castaway. Certainly Castaway had minimal pre-crash stuff (our flashbacks), lots of on island stuff and also some after the rescue back to normality stuff, a format I found interesting. I'm not sure if people in general would want to know what happens to the Losties post-rescue, they may just want to imagine them being happy not selling their stories to the media or in jail. There was a thread a while ago about people who would not want to get off the island and why. I think it was decided that Locke, Sawyer and Kate for sure would want to stay, wheelchairs and prison are not nice options. Rose and Bernard probably want to stay too - Rose dying, though Rose seemed OK with it. Sun and Jin may stay too -- though I think they could now break free from Mr Paik. The rest would be happy to leave. I have the feeling that the final final scene may be us panning back from the island either with the remaining Losites all stood on the beach or the camp totally deserted with their tents and stuff getting blown in the wind. Or if the show in canned mid-season it'll end with a black screen with the words "The Survivors of Oceanic Flight 815 were never found" in white LOST typeface.

[Mike in the Box]

@ Tahir

I understand what you are saying, but does that mean that shows set in the USA (specifically New York) should never refer to the tragedy of September 11, 2001?

It can be addressed in a tasteful way, and I have faith that if the writers choose to include this historical event in the LOST story they surely will do it tactfully and tastefully.

[karen]

what if the odd things in pictures and stuff are a bluff for Jacob, who maybe watching.. what is to say that the others are not conning jacob! just a thouhgt

[Tahir]

@ Mike in the Box

I agree about your point about 911 but our Losties, and the show itself, would have no off-island references to the tsunami - they wouldn't know that event killed 200,000+ people.The suffering it caused can't be addressed in the show itself and its from that angle I say that the tsunami really should be kept out of Lost.

[Lorne]

With all the references to the song "Downtown", maybe we should take a look @ the lyrics, or the history of the song?
I looked, but there wasn't much for me there...
Maybe
And you may find somebody kind to help and understand you
Someone who is just like you and needs a gentle hand to
Guide them along
So, maybe I'll see you there
We can forget all our troubles, forget all our cares and go
Downtown, things'll be great when you're
Downtown, don't wait a minute more,
Downtown, everything's waiting for you

but that's generic... any thoughts?

[Jamie (c)]

@ Lorne - I think 'Downtown' represents a time when things were more innocent and the music tells of this utopia where everyone is happy and good things happen.

I'm not sure it's meant to be too literal, just nostalgic. (at least for many of us 40+ somethings)

[Lorne]

And the way I could think Lost could connect to the Tsunami is that something on the Island causes it. Either the Dharma group that was willing to kill w/ the "vaccine", or the island doing a correction itself.

As for the beacon, I always figured it wasn't a locator, as much as a gateway to another place where the island exists. For the Black Rock ship, it might have hit the spot right on. Maybe the same for Earhart, but maybe the beacon amplifies the gateway.

[rok]

you know, we still don't have a good explanation for how eko's brother's airplane ended up on the island, so i agree that the whole submarine and strapped-in stuff was all smoke and mirrors for juliet's sake. there is either some wormhole-esque way to get there, or it's some sort of pan-dimensional place that exists in many places at once, or something even more bizarre than that. by the way, the whole "underground evacuation" would also seem to explain the labeled "escape hatch" we saw in the wall of the episode maternity leave.

heck, we still don't know why the others were playing dress-up all that time when first encountering the losties. seems like a lot of trouble when they were doing just fine infiltrating the group from the inside and staying hidden. and there is a distinct possibility that the whole playground video was captured LONG before juliet saw it (photoshopping a fake date onto a newspaper front page when it's being filmed and broadcast is about an easy a fake as you can do... and ben et al. have a history of putting on a fake show for the purposes of manipulation and fear. all i'm saying is that could have all been filmed long ago, and ben just had some fake lines he spoke into the headset, but we never heard any reply. could it have all been a lie to keep juliet under control? and how the heck does ben WEILD so much control in the first place? why does everyone listen to him? because he "speaks" to jacob? i suspect that ben is either the crowning achievement of the dharma experiment, or the control, and therefore must be preserved at all costs.

oh, and do not believe a single word juliet says to the losties. only believe what they show in the flashbacks. remember, it turned out she was lying about the "withdrawal" aspect, as it was all fabricated with a chip in claire. which means that ethan was NOT rogue and improvising as she says, since they had implanted the chip with the intent to use it at some point when useful. and i'm not sure of the timeline for this, but juliet was very cold and calculating in her tone when she and ben watched jack from closed-circuit tv in the nikki/paulo episode.

in the end, after three years of working with ben, she's learned how to be just as lying and manipulative as he was. i hope it turns out jack has noticed something so that he's just playing juliet (like when ana lucia had noticed goodwin wasn't wet after the crash, but only pieced it together later when she could do something about it).

[Darkclaw]

Wasn't "Downtown" playing when we first met Desmond down in the hatch?

[Rach]

Er, hi guys! I love your show... only this weeks podcast is only downloading as 9 mins long! The rest of it is missing, it cut out whilst you were all in mid stream... is there anyway of getting the full length version to me? I thought it was a great episode, and was v. disappointed when I didn't get to hear your analysis! Really enjoyed the Kate and Sawyer moments in this episode, did NOT see the twist coming. Brilliant.

[Susan]

Hello - first time poster here, but long time listener. Let me first say that I am totally addicted to the podcasts and love reading the comments. I found an article on the MSNBC website entitled "5 top TV shows that should be canceled." I was both surprised and dissappoined to see "Lost" mentioned. You can read the entire article at:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18078380/

The part about "Lost" is below:

"Let’s be honest: The only reason to watch “Lost” any more is to see how it ends, so let’s just end it now and then we can all relax. The show’s producers recently said they were talking to ABC about planning a firm end date for the show, which would help the show’s writers avoid having to create newer and more banal, pseudo-intellectual mysteries. Most importantly, the network needs to stop wasting the talents of its amazing, capable cast. This season, characters were ignored for weeks on end with no real payoff. It’s time for “Lost’s” castaways to find their way home, or not, just as long as they do something."

[Rachel]

@DarkClaw
The song that Desmond was playing in the Hatch/Heard on the pub jukebox was "Make Your Own Kind of Music" by Mama Cass

[Mark B]

Subject : tsunami
I think having something happen on the island to have caused the tsunami that happened on 26th Dec would be really disrespectful. It's not something that tv should use as a plot device. If TPTB want to have a tsunami hit the island they should make it clear that this is a different tsunami. There are "freak waves" far more often than people like to think many of then do not reach shorelines so go unreported. A localised landslide or small earthquake under the sea could cause a sudden short lived change in sea level that only affects the island but TPTB would need to make it clear this was the case and it's not the same tsunami. Personally I don't think they'll have a tsunami -- but D&C did mention that the date on the island was important -- maybe because of Juliets arrival close to 9/11.

Subject: Jack and Jules, in it together ?
Are J&J in it together double crossing Ben but keeping the Losites in the dark ? This would be loike when Sayid told Jack but not the rest about Micheal. Is this why Jack is protecting her ? Are they planning a take over bid of the Others ? Would Jules double cross Ben because he's refused to let her go ?

@rok
The reason the Others dressed up in rags was to make the Losties think that they were simple island folk rather than scientists with guns and houses and subs and stuff. As long as the Losites thought that the Others had a distinct advantage. The only reason the Others revealed themselves was because Ben needed Jack to operate.
The video of Rachel and Julian showed a boy of the right age to be Rachels son so it has to be taken recently. Unless it was a really professional video edit job I think the video is real but the fact Rachels cancer came back is not. Jacob can't cure cancer or he would have fixed Ben.

[Tahir]

@ Susan.

I hate to say it, cos I'm a BIG Lost fan, but some of that article is true.

[jg]

Subject: Rosicrucian clues

@ Jackeduplockedown,

I think this Rosicrucian connection is strong. You may find the following research therapeutic in your convalescence. I have just begun to look into this myself.

• I thought that perhaps the Island was like Brigadoon.
• Brigadoon is the Anglo version of a short story called Germelshausen
• Christian Rosenkreutz is the last of the Family “Germelshausen”
• Christian Rosenkreutz is the grand mythic character of the Rosicrucians.

Therefore, is Christian Rosenkreutz a Jacob prototype?

Germelshausen
http://www.all-story.com/issues.cgi?action=show_story&story_id=136

Christian Rosenkreutz
http://www.alchemylab.com/christian_rosenkreutz.htm

Rosicrucian (previously posted by eve)
http://www.angelfire.com/nt/dragon9/ROSICRUCIANS.html

Perhaps this is something…but more likely it is yet another of my theory “bottle rockets” that is spiraling out of control and will crash in the creek.

@ Tahir,
I agree. That is why I think Mark B's 108 episode idea is so perfect.

[Cihan]

I can only see Locke and Rose wanting to stay on the island. Kate's marshall is now dead, and island-life is not for Sawyer. Both can get fake IDs once they return to some mainland or another.

108 episodes is a good idea, I think Carlton mentioned this in an official podcast too. But as always with these things, it'll probably be down to ABC to some extent.

[Mark B]

Issue for Kate and Sawyer is that as soon as they step off any rescue plane/boat/helicopter or whatever the press (and police) will be all over them like a rash. This is why Kate tried to steal Johannas passport when she drowned.

The problem LOST is suffering from is that people (well the press) keep wanting to drag it down. It has become the success to knock. If the press left it alone it would be fine. As Robert said in the podcast according to Neilsens 7-day rating the viewing figures are the same as before. Answers are flowing now like never before, every real LOST fan has said the last few episodes have been some of the best ever.

OK the ultimate solution to LOST will be if they get home or not but it's the journey that's important here not the destination.

Personally I think they won't get home. I hope it's explained in a nice way -- maybe the real threat to the Losites, the Smoke Monster, will be contained, the Others will turn out OK and the Losties and they will be forced into some alliance, Jules and Jack will fix the problem with baby making and we'll be left thinking that they live happily ever after on the island as they all slowly realise that life on the island is better and going back will only cause more problems for them. This will of course leave it all open for some kind of sequel/follow-up special which ABC will keep on the back burner which would be a bad idea.

[JackedupLockedown]

Personal Motivations

What it is:
Ben: Keeping Control
Juliet: Her agenda
Jack: Going Home (he doesn't want to play anymore)
Sawyer: ? (Any thoughts?)
Locke: His Destiny or Purpose
Hurley: Keeping the peace
Desmond: Penny
Kate: Creating Drama, Feeling needed
Sayid: Finding out what Juliets up to
Claire: Aaron
Charlie: Staying alive
Rose and Bernard: Being togeather

What it should be
Ben: Watching his own back
Juliet: Getting off the Island (she is in a no-win situation)
Jack: Cowboying-up
Sawyer: Thinking of nicknames for Juliet (May I suggest Karate kitten, condescending and accurate with a hint of alliteration)
Locke: ? (Any thoughts?)
Hurley: Getting rims for his van
Desmond: Telling the viewers what the hell happened to him
Kate: SPOILER WARNING: Finding a Dharma prophylactic from what I hear END SPOILER
Sayid: Hiring someone to make a plan based on his intuition
Claire: Aaron
Charlie: Finding a new job for the 2008 television season (just a guess)
Rose and Bernard: Showing up in an episode

@ JG

Thanks, I certainly can feel the counter culture influence all over this show, that's what makes Boehme and these secretb society connections so interesting. The endless nods to creative literature and culture that Lost burys within every episode is the single most unique (I know not possible) element of TV's most unique (again not possible) show. I'll enjoy reading your links, the printer is getting a workout this week. As far as out-of-control or incorrect theories, well they are nessacary. Finding flaw in a thought out idea is not a waste, but rather narrows the spectrum of possible correct theories. I don't consider any theory I have concrete, just "The best I can do based on what I know now" Always leave some margin for error.

108 WOULD BE GREAT: 5 seasons is just enough to wrap up the stroy of 815 with just enough Island mystery turned history.

I would be a fan of seeing multiple spin-offs as well. I am sure there is a good untold story somewhere within this Island, say what you will about spinoffs but good shows produce good spinoffs (i.e. Cheers, Star Trek, All in the Famiily, Happy Days etc.)

Besides even bad spinoffs don't ruin a good show.

[rok]

@ mark b., ah, hadn't thought about the age of the child. i guess that could have been an adopted child or whatever, but it's probably legit. in retrospect, it reminds me very much of when ben shows jack the tape of the world series win by the boston red sox.

hmmm... i still think ben's lying about something to juliet, but now i have less evidence. ;-)

[Lorne]

Random thought:
Wouldn't it be cool to see a conversation between Ben and Smokey?
And I think it's been mentioned before, but the idea of Ben being the only native left, and everyone else being "imports" is a neat idea.

[Mark B]

Another wild theory .... Jacob is Jacob Hanso some relative of Alvar Hanso. I'm sure on the blast door map some long distant relative of Alvar was on the Black Rock and is referred to as "Last resting place of XXXXX Hanso". My theory is that Alvars grandfather (or whatever) was on the Black Rock and had kids with a female islander or female person on the Black Rock and these are the people Jacob is descended from as could Ben be. Meanwhile Alvars grandmother is back in Norway raising Alvars father who in turn raised Alvar .....

[riverfr0zen]

This may sound wild ... but what if Jacob is ... Joop?

;)

[Cihan]

@ Mark B. As much as people are knocking Lost, writers are still influenced by it and viewers are watching these influenced works. Did you check out the new series starring Nathan Fillion, called 'Drive'?

Lost, Heroes, Drive...random people brought together for some mysterious purpose...I cant keep up!

[Mark B]

Not seen Drive advertised haven't been watching any tv other than LOST -- which channel/day/time is it on ?

Any good ?

[alex's slingshot]

@ Cihan

I watched "drive" last night and i kept associating the officers of The Race as the Others. Plus that guy Nathan Fillion tied up in the bathroom? Totally reminded me of Richard Alpert.

Ensemble cast, crazy backstories, a mysterious "race", and a group of people pulling the strings with ambiguous motives... sounds a lot like a show i know and love...

[Cihan]

Mark B. Drive is on Fox, which automatically makes one wary, but Nathan Fillion is great in anything, and we all love a good mystery. It has an intriguing premise of an illegally shady race to the death (comprising of racers that are both in it for the money and some who have been forced) that has been going on in America since cars have been around, and in this day and age all the drivers are monitored via satelites so the odds against them are steep which is cool.

I liked the first two episodes; its not great, but has good performances and is full of potential, just like Heroes really.

http://www.fox.com/drive/

Apparently most of the car scenes have CGI, very impressive.

@ alex's slingshot. Good catch with the Alpert resemblance. Although unlike Lost, Nathan's character ties him up and beats answers out of him!

[Joop]

Exactly how much power is attributed to Jacob?... the black smoke?...the box?...the numbers?
The reason I ask is because 'The Man Behind the Curtain' implies a deception of some sort. I would love to see the nobs & switches that brought down Hurley's chicken shack.

@ riverfr0zen

lol... I would love to see Joop as Jacob...w/ a tall Colt Forty Fiiiiive.

[alex's slingshot]

new Official podcast is up... !

[Lmnop]

Actually, i'm almost positive we DO know that rousseau was pregnant when she came to the island, she mentioned it in a previous season (i went back and watched them all).

Also, ben was born on the island, or so he says, so does that mean his mom is dead too, or is he the second generation after them, considering his biological parents had to have been OFF the island in order to conceive him.

[avdj]

hey, guys. excellent work on the show this week. it was my favorite podcast so far this season. it felt like old times.

[ebonX]

Subj: The Ending to LOST

I like Mark's idea that the entire LOST series will be 108 episodes ... I think a resolution to the Island and our Losties will come at the end of S4 (~Ep.98). My speculation is that they (or whatever Losties are left) will get off the Island in the S4 season finale ... Then the final 10 eps will be a mini-S5 (probably in the Fall of 2008) and will be an epilogue to story set-in the Present Day, which will be 4+ years after they got off the Island. Here's the kick ... S5 flashbacks will all be on-Island, while TPTB wrap-up characters/storylines off-island.

Subj: The Business of LOST

I agree that LOST has retained the audience, but less people are watching the commercials ... LOST is retaining the same audience, but now the same aggregate audience is watching via Tivo, Internet, iPods, etc ... That means less eyes for the commercials, which is what TV is all about ... Trying to sell you sh^t you don't need!!

Subj: LOST Successors

In addition to Heroes & Drive, LOST has also spawned shows, such as Jericho & Prison Break ... The interesting thing to note is how these shows have tweaked the LOST serial show formula, based on the critiques of LOST itself (more self-contained eps, only season-long story arcs, etc.)

That's all I got on that ... Stay LOST!

[Darkclaw]

@ Rachel
Thanks for helping me out Rachel !

[JackedupLockedown]

@ Ebonx

In ten years TV as we know it will be no more. The fall of the Cable and Dish companies will come as online content continues to get better and more readily available and accessable. The problem is Cable and Dish companies have stopped putting customers first and that creates a void in the market. With the internet people private parties can fill that void and the fact that they are motivated and the TV companies are not should be reflective of the end products. The problem with Lost sad to say is it involves thinking and learning to enjoy and that is something that is less then appealing with the majority of todays Americans especially those in the 19-36 Demo or whatever it is Ad agencies target. Funny thing is I am more inclinded to be effected negativley by a commercial then positivley; but I am usually the exception and not the rule.

[JackedupLockedown]

P.S. Grindhouse was awesome

Sayid (Naveen Andrews) was great in it!

[Lorne]

I also wanted to thank you for not yelling Khan at the top of your voice :) I knew it was coming, so maybe it helped, but after being jolted by the Nikki and Pablo return as zombie reaction scream, and the high pitch laughing the past couple of weeks, this one didn't hurt my ears :)

[ebonX]

@Adam Logan - We do not know that Richard Alpert can go off-island. Just re-watched the ep and Ben (supposedly) talks to Richard on the headset ... How do we know this is Richard Alpert? How do we know he is even talking to someone off-island? In fact, how do we know he is even talking to anyone on the other end of the headset? My belief it is all part of Ben's "act". In regards to Ben showing Juliet Rachel & Julian on video ... It is just another con by Ben. This one was to keep Juliet on the Island ... Also, as I stated on the previous discussion thread, I think Rachel's chart that Ben shows Juliet (which we all know is incorrect - Male, 187lbs, & Cardiac, not Cancer chart) is a 'rotten easter egg' (Thx Jamie ... Great term!) ... It is a deliberate 'error' to show the audience that Ben is conning Juliet.

@Buzzkill - I agree that the song "Downtown" is a thematic device used by TPTB to link the Juliet backstory to Juliet's introduction (in beginning of S3, I think). Remember our initial questions about Juliet were (1) Why was she crying? and (2) Her comment about Freewill (during the bookclub meeting).

@Bekka - I agree that we should trust the instincts of Sawyer & Sayid ... To move this point along, my belief is it will be Kate (with Sayid & Sawyer's help) that reveals Juliet's deception to Jack ... Kate is the only one of those three that Jack will listen to, imho, when it's all said & done.

[ebonX]

@JackedUp - I totally agree with you ... Also, their is a funny paradox in the whole TV commercial trying to reach the "Alpha Consumers" (a subset of the 19-36 demo) in that these are the people who are moving to other forms of media, and thus will drive the market away from TV.

[SMKGrl]

@ anyone with technical capabilities...

I can't get my tv to do captions. Can anyone tell me what Ben says exactly when he goes to talk to Juliette after Sabine dies, when she's sitting on the rocky coast. He says something like "You've done extensive research on _______, have you ever seen anything that resembles cancer". It sounds like maybe "all of us", or possibly a name. If it's a name, it's a new name.

[ebonX]

I just wrote a theory on the Wiki page (Thanks to LOSTcasters & Nash) ...

http://lostcasts.pbwiki.com/Matrix-EdenTheory

Please comment, poke holes, etc ... This is definitely a work in-progress.

Thanks ... Stay LOST!

[ebonX]

@SMKGirl -

Here is what Ben said ...

"You've been here six months. You've done extensive work-ups on all of us. Have you seen even a trace of cancer?"

[Sobaika]

Anyone listen to the Official Lost Podcast? M.C. Gainey (Tom/Mr. Friendly) is awesome.

On another note, I'm all for the 108 episodes. This kind of show needs an end point, and the producers are aware of it. Five/six seasons sounds perfect.

[Mike in the Box]

Subject: The "rotten easter egg" (aka the medical chart mistake)

I have a theory about the medical chart. Bear with me. If you listen to the way Ben speaks (not just what he says) he sounds somewhat like a therapist, or even better, a hypnotist. I believe that the chart was not a mistake. I believe that through some kind of subconscious suggestion, Ben caused Juliet to "see" her sister's chart even though it clearly wasn't. I know this is kind of a weak theory, but I think he makes these subconscious suggestions a lot. I am listening to the other interactions he has had with other Losties, especially Locke (both in the Swan and recently in Othersville)

[jeffinthe9]

Idea..
Could the island be some magical place where people dont age? Once you move to the island you can live forever, but when you leave the island you will age accordingly and may die. Could that be why they cant leave the island? They cant take a woman off the island to compare the results, why Ben cant leave the island for treatment. Could that be why they are working to bring life to the island to keep their race going and not die out? Where the hell is Rousooo???

[jeffinthe9]

Idea..
Could the island be some magical place where people dont age? Once you move to the island you can live forever, but when you leave the island you will age accordingly and may die. Could that be why they cant leave the island? They cant take a woman off the island to compare the results, why Ben cant leave the island for treatment. Could that be why they are working to bring life to the island to keep their race going and not die out? Where the hell is Rousooo???
By the way, I think Rouso is an outcast of the Others. That explains so much, and why she didnt want to go to the town with Kate/Locke/sayid, since shes banned from town.

[my-2-cents]

***SPOILER STUFF***

Fun Podcast, but our LostCasters missed out on Cuse/Lindelof's remarks about new "subterranean" characters as a deliberate misdirection. Here's a possible clue:
http://www.thetailsection.com/lost-spoilers/lost-spoiler-time-with-docarzt.php#more

Jack-in-the-Mailbox in Episode 22?
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Season_3/prespoilers

Tsu-na-mi? So-sue-me!
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2007/01/lost_producers_.html
(bottom of page)

Rousseau & Klugh to appear in multiple flashbacks:
O.L.P. 2/20/07 & 3/20/07
http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/podcast?pn=podcast

What's in the Smoke Monster?
O.L.P. 2/3/07 & 4/16/07
http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/podcast?pn=podcast

***END SPOILERS***

my-2-cents

[alex's slingshot]

subject: pregnancy and the incident

i have a bit of a theory concerning whether people of the island can give birth. According to Juliet, Claire is the only woman who has successfully given birth on the island. The exact quote is: "For some reason, the women here can't have babies. The mother's body turns on the pregnancy, treats it as a foreign invader. I saw it happen over and over. Every pregnant woman on this Island died."

Which leads us to think of the contradictions that are Rousseau's story. Rousseau claims to have come to the island pregnant. Well she's obviously still alive. So that means either Alex is not her child, Rousseau was lying about coming to the island pregnant or ever giving birth, or a third possibility, which is my theory, that either the incident (even though people think that might've just been the so-called "purge") or "the sickness" was this problem of pregnant women dying. Rousseau gave birth before the incident. This is something Juliet wouldn't know about since she had only been on the island for 3 years and supposedly Alex was born 16 years ago (time warps and rapid-aging theories aside).

However, I also think it's possible that this epidemic doesn't effect people who conceived off-island. If the problem happens at conception, which Juliet claims, it would make sense that that triggers the body to attack the baby, but if it's already been conceived then maybe the women is immune to the problems the island induces. (Claire was given an implant to make her sick after all, we don't know if her problems are caused by her pregnancy or the Others directly). Also, why hasn't Sun experienced
any major sickness, other than a little morning sickness when she was on the boat? (also could've been sea-sickness). If she concieved on the island and is in danger it would explain why Juliet infiltrated the Losties, but if the father is Jae Lee then it makes sense that she doesn't seem to be in any danger. I think she conceived off-island, and this is the reason people like Rousseau, Claire, and possibly now Sun are so important to the Others... because they can procreate but the Others can't. It explains why they stole Alex and why they attempted to steal Aaron. Also why Juliet might be interested in Sun. Just like Ben got cancer even though it allegedly cured Rose of hers. The island is attacking the Others, but the Losties seem just fine. That's why Ben was so interested in Locke regaining the use of his legs. He wanted to know how Locke "did it" the same way they want to know how Claire gave birth. How was it possible? So they studied her and injected her, and now Juliet lies to say Claire was in danger to keep the Losties in fear, when really the Losties hold the power.

The other element of my theory is that Ben was the only successful person born on the island (that's an Other). His mom may still have died, but he's obviously still alive. It may be why he has such a powerful position within the Others, since he's like an heir or something, and why he cares so much about the whole procreation thing, and why he took Alex as his daughter (to further study her).

sorry for all the rambling, I just wanted to point out that the Losties have stuff the Others want, but the Others need to keep the power which is why they tell all these lies and have ambiguous motives. It certainly is interesting the way the island seems inocuous (and sometime beneficial) to the Losties in the same ways it's hurting the community of Others (basically through sickness and procreation).
That is all

[jeffinthe9]

What was code 42 on the computer in the Flame?
If you look at the blast door map, it says to go to Arrow station incase of code 42.

[Andrew]

Smoke Monster and the Fence:
Is it possible the smoke monster couldn't go over the fence because the fence interrupted the monster's connection to the ground. Remaining in direct contact with the ground /the island might be the monster's source of power whether through magnetism/electricity or some mechanical or mystical means. The fence's force could disrupt that connection. It seemed like Kate, Locke and Sayid got over way too easily for the fence to be directed at people.

There's a mythological link to that as well: the giant Antaeus (fought with Hercules and the son of Zeus and the earth goddess Gaia--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_%28mythology%29) who was "extremely strong as long as he remained in contact with the ground (his mother earth)." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antaeus

Gaia
Few points derived from Gaia, mother of Antaeus, myth referred to above:
--could mean that smoke monster is a product of the island.
--James Lovelock's Gaia hypothesis theorizes that the earth is "a complex interacting system that can be thought of as a single organism." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis This could have some connections to the island's unique properties on a small scale. Is the island an organism/entity. Locke seems to think it was capable of bringing the Losties there.
--Also, and this might be taking the reading of links in the Gaia article a bit far, according to Wikipedia: Gaea is the name of an island where organ regeneration research is being done in Madeleine L'Engle's novel Arm of the Starfish: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arm_of_the_Starfish. Arm of the Starfish is a sequel to A Wrinkle in Time which has been among the Lost books: http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/A_Wrinkle_in_Time

Monsters Question
Has it ever been made clear that the smoke monster is the one that shakes the trees; could there be still some other entity? Has the smoke monster ever been shown shaking the trees?

[Ralph]

With all your talk about Vonnegut in the podcast, I thought I would post this link.

http://ralphehanson.com/blog/archive_07_04.html#041607_vonnegut

Stay lost.

Ralph

[Ralph]

Haven't had a chance to read back posts, but here's a couple of things I've noticed as of late:

Cerebus - Remember that the security system is called Cerebus on the map. Did anyone comment on the fact that Smokey split into three heads (like the three-headed dog Cerebus) right before hitting the fence?

Bible Sales -- When the woman Sawyer scammed started selling Bibles, she's picking up on a scam portrayed in the book and movie of Paper Moon.

Ralph

[chris in oly]

@ Andrew
Monster and Fence

In the latest podcast the producers joked about showing a Dharma Flashback where they figure out that a sonic fence would keep smokey out. They also joke about how 'smoke monsters can't jump.' So I think we can assume that the fence is designed to keep out the smoke monster and it cannot just go over the fence.

The fence works as good as any fence does in keeping people out. (No fence has been 100% effecting in keeping people out, Mongols even got through the great Wall of China. Fences are mainly a deterrant.) Also, if you were clueless about the nature of the fence, then you would lose at least one person trying to get through.

The link to Antaeus is cool.

Monster Question
There has never been a direct shot of the smoke monster shaking the trees, but it does not seem a major leap of faith to expect that the effect of the shaking is caused by the smoke monster since it appears in the next scene.

The only differentiation we have seen in the smoke monster is the white smoke monster that seemed to be dragging Locke into the vent, and the black smoke monster that was smashing Eko. However, since it appeared to take the form of a dead human (Yemi), it is likely it can shift from black to white. But we never actually saw the smoke monster take the actual form of Yemi, so like shaking the trees, it might be something else. I think the smoke monster shakes the tress and takes the form of Yemi, but we shall see. My personal interpretation is that the special effect budget limits what we actually see as opposed to an island mystery.

[Symbha]

Just some stuff that I do not hear people talking about much anymore, but how does the Lost Experience info fit into all this?

How is Mittelwerk and his takeover of Hanso related to Dharma, the (Good) Hanso foundation, and the Hostiles? Personally I believe Mittelos is related to Mittelwork, not Widmore. It is Mittelwerk that intends to balance the Vanzetti equation, isn't it?

I definitely think Desmond will be part of Juliette's exposure. He's the wildcard that Ben is unaware of.

Discuss...

[Andrew]

@Symbha
On an interview with the producers on NPR I believe they said that the Lost Experience was basically for hard-core fans and went into things that wouldn't really be covered on the show itself.

@chris in oly
I agree about fences in general. This one just seemed like a a super expensive high-tech one that people didn't struggle too much to beat. I haven't listened to the official podcast for a while--thanks I'll check that one out.

[jg]

@ Andrew,
I agree 100% with Cerberus needing to maintain contact with the ground. I posted something akin to this a while back. I'm also glad you brought up the Gaia motif. It is too strong to ingore.

[frankmorris]

Tomorrow's 'Catch 22' should be good! As was pointed out, Catch 22 was a clause in a medical form. I would add (if you didn't already know) that the term actually originated from the Joseph Heller novel.

The dictionary definition for catch 22: A frustrating situation in which one is trapped by contradictory regulations or conditions.

Sounds like a Desmond centric episode to me.

[jg]

To wit, the smoke monster is a dirt monster.

[frankmorris]

:D

[Cihan]

I'm kind of glad I didnt get into the Lost Experience, as I'm getting a vibe from some of you that you're basically left frustrated and unsatisfied that the rich story from the Experience is lacking in the show, whereas I'm pretty much content with what I'm watching.

I'm listening to the official podcast, and M.C. Gainey's list of on-screen deaths was hilarious.

[Cihan]

Also, Catch-22 is an exciting name for an episode, its another one of my favourite novels ever.

[Cihan]

Haha, Carlton's totally lost it on the podcast, man if I was one of the writers and had to deal with the most ridiculous fan questions, I'd lose it too.

[JackedupLockedown]

RE: OLP

I find Damon and carlton very likeable on the Podcasts. I am personally hoping "don't make me play that Banjo" makes it to the air for the summer season.

[Sli]

OK guys, I had a bit of an epiphany tonight. We're being set up - again.

All the obvious signs point to a Sun kidnapping by the Others. "They'll just have to get some more mothers" and so on plus the presence of Juliet in the Losties' camp. What could paint bigger arrows toward a Sun kidnapping? It all adds up. It all makes sense. That's why I am pretty sure it isn't what will happen.

Remember back when we were all sure the Others were coming for Aaron but they took Walt instead? We haven't seen or heard anything about the "Walt" agenda since then. Does it mean the Other's quit being interested in what he could do? I don't think so. I think they've lulled us to sleep with other things to think about this season.

When they took Walt over Aaron, I vowed I wouldn't be fooled again and yet it took me until tonight to realize we were being set up again!

My guess is that they won't take Sun. They'll take Desmond. He's doing the time thing. I'm not sure what that is all about but if they have a brainwashing thing that says "Only fools are constrained by time and space" then it has got to be an important agenda item for them.

This topic has been unexplored since Michael and Walt left. I don't think that means it has become less important to the Others.

We were fooled before in much the same way. And we were set up equally well the last time.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[Cihan]

It would be a consistent move to have a beach Lostie abducted at the season climax as that is how they all seem to end these days.

We got tricked with Walt, but were we tricked in the second season? I dont think we were, other than having Hurley returned. I think Sun is a prime target; pregnancy seems to be the highest priority for Ben. Maybe Desmond is abducted instead, but maybe by chance, who knows, either way I'm expecting the Others to do what they do best, kidnap!

(or maybe one day we can get an inverse of that and have an Other abducted by the Losties)

[Cihan]

Its ironic that in the first episode a character (Rose?) mentions the monster sounds like something from NY, and for the longest time we're debating nanobots, dinosaurs and robots, but now we're sure the mode of travel for the monster is underground, just like the subway.

I cant wait to see a scene of a wall of black smoke chasing people in a vast underground tunnel.

[Mark B]

subject : Stupid Anagram to prove my theory that Jacob is Jacob Hanso (see somewhere above in this comment section).

Jacob Hanso == Banjo Chaos

Remember D&C are joking about that "Don't make me play that Banjo" show in the podcast -- clearly a hint at the anagram !

8-)

[DannyBoy]

hey everyone, sorry if this has been talked about before.

just watched one of us again, and the guy which give juliet the tranquilizer makes a comment along the lines of "You're gonna be amazed how time flies once you're there [the island]"

just an innocent remark or is there something more to it??

[jg]

Subject: Cerberus
(As we bide our time...)
As mentioned above, I think Cerberus is made of dirt. He is named after the mythical 3 headed dog. My dog eats and rolls in various things that I don't like. Therefore, I think Cerberus is a dirty filthy monster. And...who is saying to it...hey...HEY...Git over here! Hmmmm......

[ebonX]

Happy LOST Day!

Re: LOSTCasts 52

Jacob's List - In the podcast, you talk as if "Jacob's List" was made prior to the crash ... Has this been proven/confirmed? I thought that was speculation ... My thinking was Ben had Ethan & Goodwin make lists from Flight 815 and then Ben (supposedly) takes those lists to Jacob and returns with a new list ("Jacob's List"), based on the Others' needs. Jack is not on "Jacob's List" b/c, at the time the list was made, Ethan was still alive.

Coincidence vs. Fate - You guys were talking about wanting answers to explain why the Losties survived the crash & "came to the Island" ... I do not think this theme will ever be answered on the show ... The entire dichotomy of Free Will/Coincidence vs. Fate is a central theme on the show (as is Faith vs. Science). TPTB will never answer this question as it allows the audience themselves to discuss/examine their own opinions on the subject(s), which is truly one of the greatest aspects of the show.

Juliet learning Aikido - To answer your question about how Juliet became such a bada$$ ninja, remember that she had 2.5+ years to learn it {... After 6 months on the Island, Juliet said (to Ben) that there is nothing left for her to do (-paraphrase from "One of Us")}. It took less time for Bruce Wayne to learn his ninja skills from Ra's al Ghul in Batman Begins ... ;-D

[ebonX]

A great teaser for "Catch-22" from Doc Jensen at EW.com

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20035497,00.html

Ubermensch (Others) vs. Last Man (Losties) comparison ... Great stuff!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cbermensch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Man

Also, this article stole my thunder (but in a good way) ...
I was gonna post about Brian K. Vaughn being a writer for LOST and how his past comic book work relates to LOST.

Stay LOST!!!

[BrianS]

OK, I have read all the posts and I think there are some very good theories here. One thing to note, when women are pregnant, they are encouraged to take vitamins and other supplements to help in fetal development and also aid their immune system. The body natural reduces its willingness to fight impurities because hormones injected into the blood stream via the uterus tell the body, "hey, there's a baby in here, don't kill it!" So, pregnant women as more prone to common colds than non, because of changes in their immune systems.

Now, *IF* the island indeed does something to enhance the immune systems of its inhabitants, and then it would make sense that this increase in hormonal activity would counter the body's natural hormones and potentially harm a fetus. HOWEVER, my question is...Why would this harm the mother?

THEORY: Could it be that something about the island's connection to *new life* (ie - the fetus) reacts in a way negatively toward the mother, enhancing the baby's naturally protective hormones to the point where the mother is left helpless and fighting her own body?

Keep in mind that there was no indication that mothers were infertile, only that they died as a result of child birth. We don't know when during the birthing process their lives were in danger. This hormonal imbalance could appear after the new life (baby) has been born.

Now, I don't think Claire was affected this way. Claire did not conceive on the island and therefore Aaron has no connection to the island, and therefore not a direct threat to Claire. Claire's illness was planted by Ethan, and acted upon by Ben as a "trust mechanism." Ben never intended to hurt Claire or the baby, but only use them as a set up for later events. A safety net/backup plan/etc...

Now, we KNOW from the flashbacks, that Sun was not pregnant with Jin's baby before getting on flight 815. She was infertile. Her infertility was "cured" as a result of being on the island, therefore, she must have conceived ON THE ISLAND... (Although sperm can survive inside a woman for a few days following intercourse. So, she could have had intercourse prior to flight 815, landed on the island, been cured, and conceived...in a matter of days.) But let's just say she conceived on the island, this means her life is in danger...But when? While carrying? During birth? After birth? If so, how long after?

I think that the "trick" the writers are pulling has less to do with Desmond, Claire, and Aaron and more to do with Sun.

Looking forward to tonight.

(I hope the technical conception talk is acceptable to viewers of the site. I tried to keep it Clinical!)

[Lucidlife]

I have no reception!!! Does anyone know what time ABC updates their site to watch the episode?

[Stu]

BrianS: "Now, we KNOW from the flashbacks, that Sun was not pregnant with Jin's baby before getting on flight 815. She was infertile."

In 'The Whole Truth' Sun was told by the doctor that in fact Jin is infertile, but the doc was afraid to tell Jin this for fear of having his offices burned to the ground!

[BrianS]

@ Stu

Thanks for the correction. Either way, she couldn't have been pregnant with Jin's baby prior to being on the island.

Jin could have been "cured" of his problem by the island, boom-chicka-boom, Sun's pregnant. OR, she could have been pregnant by Mr. Clean in Korea. However, I thought the doctor's visit was after Jin's confrontation with Mr. Clean...