LOSTCasts 53: Catch-22

This latest podcast focuses on season 3, episode 17 of LOST, Catch-22. In the podcast, themes of destiny vs. free-will abound as we talk about Desmond's backstory, the love "square" between Jack, Kate and Sawyer, and Desmond's "camping trip" across the island.

Download podcast #53 here

Links related to the podcast:
The Fuselage - General reactions
Wikipedia - Backgammon
Wikipedia - Sacrifice of Issac
Charlie holding parachute in Desmond's flash
No, it's not an iPhone
Wikipedia - Catch 22
J. Wood on Catch-22
Catch 22 book on Amazon
Catch 22 DVD on Amazon

LOST links:
TV Guide - No flashbacks in ep. 19?
MSNBC - 5 shows that should be canceled
Races between Superman and The Flash
Juliet's back "brand" on Cadbury Eggs

We'll see you next week! Stay LOST.

Comments

[MJJW]

Yay, I can stop working productively now! Thanks guys! MW

[Drederick_Tatum]

It's probably been mentioned already, but go and rent "Smokin' Aces". Jack and Dr. Alpert have a cool scene together.

[Brian Holmes]

Hey! Great podcast! I made a side by side image of Hurley sitting down in Tabula Rasa (the third episode of season 1) and One of Us (the most recent episode in which Hurley takes a seat).

He actually looks like he has lost some weight.

Here's the link:

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/5853/snapshot20070422121704vo6.png

[Sobaika]

Thanks guys!

And yeah, it does look like Hurley lost some weight.

[Cihan]

1] Too much Jorge-bashing lately! Bad form.

2] 24 reached its zenith in season 3, everything afterwards has been inexplicabely lame (more so than usual!). Its more funnier than Family Guy these days. (seriously, the creepy old peado character is not funny anymore, just creepy)

3] LOL@Mariah Carey scream.

4] Definitely the worst photoshopped photo in TV production history. They're slacking.

5] My current opinion remains that white haired lady was actually a third party (Smokey, etc) taking her image and manipulating Desmond as he hallucinated. Why the third party chose her, remains to be seen.

6] lol@Airwolf.

7] Good discussion about helicopters, something is definitely up. I guess we should concentrate on the propellor aspect as opposed to an actual helicopter. Just like the initial sound of the monster was a red herring.

8] In regards to the official podcast's hinting that there may be a third mystery man who may be the father of Sun's baby... If the father of Sun's baby turns out to be Michael, via flashback mode, I will yelp like a girl.

[Conrad from Pennsylvania]

I think MSNBC should be cancelled!!! Especially after airing that Manifesto!!!

[frankmorris]

Now I know what inspired that Seinfeld 'foot race' episode w/ all the Superman references.

@ Cihan

Jorge bashing?...Because Hurley's weight was discussed?

[DocArzt]

Visit this link for some information on the guy who suggested that LOST be canceled:

http://www.thetailsection.com/lost-news/12300-people-think-lost-should.php#comments

[Cihan]

@ frankmorris, I remember a few digs at Jorge's weight in previous podcasts this season. I'm not saying the LostCast gang have been taking the piss, but that comments via listeners have been made at Jorge, which arent that funny or even interesting really. Its a disservice to the actor, and like the LostCast gang say in this podcast: his weight is irrelevant to the show at this point. The show brought the topic up to humour nitpicky fans, and now the food-drop and Dharma stash have put to rest the weight issue so why should it be discussed any more? There is more to Hugo and Jorge than his weight.

[Mark B]

Just what I need after riding my bike Houston - Austin (160 miles) in two days.

Thanks guys, going for a lie down and listen now.

[rok]

guys, re: jorge, it's the hair length and facial hair. seriously, even i look lighter when i chop my hair short and shave. i also look like i'm twelve. ;-)

[jg]

Subject: Portuguese, Magnetic field, Exploration

May I humbly submit my observations and conclusions?

Observations:

Magellan was Portuguese. His travels brought him directly though the region whereas to fore the Island was felt to reside.

The monitoring of the Earth’s magnetic status is most efficiently and most aggressively monitored and researched in the Polar Regions.

Conclusions:

The Island has a great and ostensibly growing magnetic field generation capacity. The DHARMA initiative developed a means of “Degaussing” the field. How this was done earlier…I do not know. An uncontrolled shift in the magnetic poles may indeed have catastrophic effects on our planet. This may cause us all to die…as Ms Hawking suggested. Thus, entering the numbers was a degaussing process. Without this degaussing, the magnetic field will now grow until it results in planetary catastrophe.

The field will grow. First knocking out local ‘high tech’ devices, e.g. helicopters, jets, submarines…then…who knows…

The Portuguese know something of this region that the rest of us do not,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Magellan

[idjk]

@jg

Interesting extrapolation on the degaussing theory. It now seems perfectly reasonable (if not scary!) given the context of events...

We'll see what Naomi brings.

[badger_moldy]

Just getting the podcast now! But with regard to the comments so far about the photoshopped picture of the monk and Ms. Hawking: my guess is it was made so poorly so we (the viewers) would have our attention drawn to it. All this talk about production values and stuff seems like a load of bull to me. Remember the Widmore Construction clue on the Battersea Power Station in "Fire + Water"? No one saw it after promises from the writers that there would be a huge easter egg reveal. The writers know that the serious fans (over)analyze every little detail, so something that shoddy had to be an attention grabber. If it wasn't MEANT to be seen by the viewers it could have been fixed easily in post-production.

badger_moldy

[my-2-cents]

"...in which Doc Waxman opens a can on MSNBC & the ratings unabombers"

RATINGS:
BTW, this NOT directed at the Lostcaster trio in any way, but rather to a certain segment of ratings "pseudo-journalists." From the viewer's perspective, Why grant TV pollsters so much influence? Really! When was the last time LOST's TPTB locked goose steps with those morons, anyway? Personally, I could care less about persnickety (or "pernickety" if you're Scottish), fruitless articles that discuss TV ratings or predictable comparisons to tired shows. Are we actually supposed to be enlightened by those killjoys, or just highly upset? 95% of us (no poll needed) are here right now because we love LOST come what may. The other 5% should drop out of The Great Tivo Society and join a Scottish monastery rather than try to define wired pop culture for the rest of us with baseless rants. Those kinds of ersatz folks never bring anything with them to the pinic table but are quick to complain about everyone else's home cooking. Switzerland is an equally spineless clique of people run by opinion polls, and THEIR most infamous "collaborations" are certainly nothing to brag about. I for one cannot meekly follow the Ratings Bee-otches like that. If a few depressive maudlins feel they can find better sci-fi provender elsewhere, then go with God. But we don't need their brand of plastic, misinformed vitriol & venom to drag us down! Break out the popcorn, put away the Iridium satellite phone, and ENJOY the damn show! There, I said it!

Doc Waxman - this time, it's personal!

[my-2-cents]

CRAZY CADBURY THEORY:

I think Juliet's Cadbury/Ummo Symbol branding will actually be revealed as a mark of initiation, officially inducting her into Ben's inner circle as a reward for furthering his ongoing plot against the Losties. Deep down, maybe her heart is with the beach-dwellers, but hasn't yet decided how or when to betray Ben. Ben's got a serious hold on her for the moment, but fully expects a deflection from her and has planned on some violent contingencies. Juliet tolerated the scorched flesh knowing it would be a while before she could make a clean break from The Others. She may just get her chance in the finale.

Doc Waxman

[Cordell Cunningham]

Your show description mentioned the theme of destiny vs. free-will. I am currently taking an Intro to Philosophy class and we recently covered free-will. My first thought were Locke's ideas, which we did not cover in class. Searching on the internet, I found this:
"Locke's example of a man locked into a room in which he prefers to stay. The man desires to stay in the room, is able to do so, and is thus free by Hobbes' definition, but the man does not have the power to leave the room and is thus not free according to Locke. "

I thought this was interesting because it describes Locke's situation. He desires to be on the island because he is now able to walk again, in addition to an intrest in survival. However, under his own views (if you were to strongly connect the name correlation) he is not free.

On a somewhat separate note, I thought it was interesting how Jack told Juliet that she was one of them (castaways) because she desired to leave the island. Under Jack's definiton, Locke would be an 'other'. We saw that he willingly went with the others when they gassed everyone. As a fan of his character, I would like to believe he is being misconstrued, making Jack wrong. However, we already know that Juliet is misleading everyone on the beach because of the flashback where Ben gave her the gasmask. Since Jack's definition is already proven wrong, I hope that indicates an eventual return of Locke.

I am somewhat new to the show and had not realized until you mentioned it on your podcast that Hume was Desmond's last name. I proceeded to look up Hume's view on free-will and found that he argues for compatabilism, a mixture of belief in free-will and determinism. "We are determined because there is no getting outside the chain of cause and effect." This sort of defines Desmond's determination. This reminded me that the flashback he had of the camping trip was the first that might not have happened without the flashback. In his previous flashbacks, lightning would have struck still, and Claire (or Charlie, if you go with Desmond's vision) would still almost drown. But wait, it gets better.

My Philosophy class did not cover Hume's views on free-will but, we did cover Hume's Theory of Self. A handout I recieved stated:
"In epistemology, Hume is an empiricist: All knowledge comes from sensory experience (which means essentially our five senses plus our power to reflect upon ourselves—to experience ourselves)."

Later in the handout, it goes on the say that "Some philosophers imagine that they are at every moment conscious of a self. They are wrong. We have no idea of self.
Self = a bundle of different perceptions. These perceptions are constantly changing. One’s self has no continuing identity.
For an impression to give rise to an idea of the self, it would have to remain the same over time while the self continues in existence. This is not the case."
This made me think of Desmond's self-reflection on the interpretation of events. He may believe that, because he saved Charlie's life, the person in the parachute was not Penny. This shows that his views are compatable with the philosopher Hume's views on free-will. It also shows a possible flaw in Desmond's self-perception of his foresight ability. Interestingly enough, a flaw recognized by Desmond would only prove that Hume's views on the self are correct because it would not be a constant entity. This he may come to realize by reflecting on events (sensory perceptions) and/or his self.

On a very separate note, I thought it was interesting that Juliet has the first name she does. Should we compare Jack to Romeo, it would seem that she may eventually lead to his demise. However, I doubt Jack would kill himself over her, at least literally. When I first considered the name comparison, I was reminded of another possible connection to the famous play. The spider's bite that paralyzed Nikki and Paulo reminded me of the potion given to Juliet by the Priest in the play.

Several times in the show, we have seen the flashback where Juliet is reading Carrie. I would like to note how she assumes a similar role being sort of alienated on the beach... Except by one boy (Jack), like Carrie was. Though we know her stay on the island may be short, perhaps she will start to feel some sort of comfort before her destructive exit.

I hope my somewhat coherent rambling is useful. Hopefully such ideas can help to overcome the pseudo-intellectual stereotype being casted upon the show.

[my-2-cents]

@ Lostcasters:

**************************************************
WARNING: SPOILERS MAY JACK UP YOUR LOCKEDOWN
**************************************************

(1) Dudes, that "unlikely nemesis" is Mikhail! Described as "unlikely" 'cause he's supposed to be dead. Doc Arzt neatly pegged this one on 4/13/07.
http://www.thetailsection.com/lost-spoilers/exclusive-a-second-look-at-cat.php

(2) Looking forward to my theory about Ben's plot to get the underwater cable reconnected play out alongside your helicopter-crash-as-diversion observation. Nice catch!

**********************
OK TO LOOK NOW
**********************

Doc Waxman

[Steve Berry]

Cadbury's Creme Egg photo - spooky!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hlk/129719351/in/photostream/

[Mark B]

More old movie references ... listening to the part of the 'cast about how the island is a "real life backgammon game" I recall watching either a Sinbad or Jason and the Argonaunts type movie from the 1960's or 70's -- one of those classic ones with the skeletons fighting special effects I think -- that had scenes some of the "Gods" playing with the people on earth by sending in bizarre monsters, weird weather and other odd stuff to make them fail in their missions and then other "Gods" would do stuff to help them out afterwards.

[JackedupLockedown]

Friends, Romans, Lost-a-holics…It’s a shame that society and television are not ready for the type of thoughtful, complex, and well written drama and mystery that Lost brings to the table 23 hump days a year, but nonetheless we should not be surprised or dismayed. It’s a television stock market folks. BEAR in my mind that it’s those BULL**** advertisers who call the shots and their soft malleable brains take many of their cues from a archaic and at best arbitrary ratings system, that as far as I know was named after a “B” list celebrity best known for playing lead next to an “juicy” ex-gridironer\murderer in satirical spy spoofs.
The Television and News media has long ago stopped reporting the news and started reporting personal opinion and fashionable conjecture. Rather then be creative or unique, simply crawl into the protective shell of popular opinion and the status quo and isolate. This Ostrich like strategy becomes even more evident when you see the absurdly over-dramatic and intentionally misleading production present in each next time on Lost promo. This article by MSNBC was obviously not written by a fan or even regular viewer of Lost. Most likely he is one of the Lemmings who was charged to write an article about TV shows that are reaching their “add Oliver” moment. Sadly, like Sam the Butcher bringing Alice the meat, we gotta take it. (Sorry if that was way over the line, shout out to the Beasties)
Also make note that the people who have these magic boxes (Ironic isn’t it)are the same people that in the years since the fall of the Seinfeld Dynasty have helped propel such bravura programming as Friends, ER and American Idol to the top of the Television food chain. In addition there are three CSI shows, all of which are exactly the same and include mysteries that could be solved by a poorly trained Macaque five minutes into each mostly self contained and agonizingly outmoded episode. At any rate the content of his commentary is littered with clues suggesting just how unfamiliar he is with the show and it’s audience, which as Robert Stone correctly mentioned has remaining pretty stanch since the end of the first season.
Still for those incensed by the attack on our beloved show, our haven from the entertainment doldrums, our weekly 43 minute look into the potential of television, I in the words of Slick Willy, feel your pain. It makes me pine for the days of yester when if a man offended another man he simply remove his white glove, evenly slap the mongrel on the cheek and thus challenge him to a duel. The gauntlet was thrown down long ago by those to tepid on thought to embrace brilliance and creativity of a foreign or perhaps just unfamiliar nature. Our only recourse is to continue to support in numbers the way we have until the show losses its edge and Arthur Fonzoreli’s skis congregate with the sea.
As the writers gear up for what hopefully will be the penultimate season of Lost, I hope they will not waver from what to this point has been a dogged and venerable effort to maintain a clear, concise and consistent theme and a commitment to unraveling the lot of these absorbing Island and individual mysteries in due and appropriate time. (Redundant)

STAY LOST

P.S. So does that Brand on Juliet mean she is filled with Crème and Nougat (What is Nougat?) Mt grandmother once told me that girls were made of sugar and spice and everything nice, however based on her logic I'd have gone blind long ago.

Jackie

[my-2-cents]

@ Mark B,

I agree. This definitely feels like some version of "Clash of the Titans" with higher powers/masterminds using people as game pieces. In Lewis Carrol's "Through the Looking Glass" (same title as the May 23rd finale) the characters are literally playing the roles of walking chess pieces on a macroscale countryside chess board. Alice herself is inducted as a pawn that moves up in status as the story progresses.

Or, as the Lostcasters put it, a few rich magnates like Hanso & Widmore are placing bets on the outcome of some sort of "Most Dangerous Game." I also can't help thinking back to the wickedly funny plot in 2001's "Rat Race" movie. Can't wait! Maybe I'll give my Wikipedia monkey the Summer off:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_Of_The_Titans

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Through_the_Looking-Glass

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Most_Dangerous_Game

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_race

Doc Waxman

[jg]

@ Jackie,

Well said. My computer screen is hot to the touch.
However, I must say that, we, the viewing public is to blame for termination of anything good on TV. If the advertisers think they can make more money pandering to dullards then they will do that.

Matt Jones suggested a movie "Idiocracy". I took the suggestion . I also recommend it. (Not for the kids)

[AdamLogan]

good podcast, but you guys didn't mention how Abraham's son Isaac had a son named Jacob. There must be some connection there. And I guess if you want to really get speculative, you could see how if Desmond represents Abraham, and Charlie represents Isaac, wouldn't Aaron represent Jacob? And if so, that would help with the whole time shift theory of the Others actually being the descendants of the Losties...but that's really just going out on a limb. The main interesting thing is the connection to the name Jacob through the story of Abraham and Isaac.

[my-2-cents]

Tenuous similarities in LOST to Lewis Carrol's "The Hunting of the snark"

Dark tale of an ill-fated sea voyage with a misfit crew; told in non-sensical rhyming poetry.

References to the number 42:
Rule 42 of the Code: "No one shall speak to the Man at the Helm."
The Baker had "forty-two boxes, all carefully packed..."
Also, Lewis Carroll was 42 when he wrote "Snark" & earlier displayed obsession with the number 42.

Jacob's mysterious identity is like "Boots'" highly mysterious role wrapped up in Carrol's story right to the end. Conspicuously, Boots' is the only character never depicted in the original book's illustrations. The suggestion is that he was the murderer/creature all along.

Smoke Monster = Snark, or Boojum (?)

Mysterious "JubJub" bird = the "Hurley" bird?

Crazy Leonard = "Banker" who went insane?

The Snark creature is described as having a glass eye.

815 pilot flying blind like the Bellman's disoriented sailing.

Ominous climax of the story similar to encounters with the Smoke Monster.

Navigational quirks:
"What's the good of Mercator's North Poles and Equators,
Tropics, Zones, and Meridian Lines?"
So the Bellman would cry: and the crew would reply
"They are merely conventional signs!

http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext91/snark12.txt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hunting_of_the_Snark

Doc Waxman