LOSTCasts 54: D.O.C.

This podcast focuses on season 3, episode 18 of LOST, D.O.C. It stands for "date of conception", and appropriately, we talk about Sun's pregnancy and interaction with Juliet, as well as Sun and Jin's backstory. In the podcast we also explore Mikhael's "resurrection" and the speculation surrounding the surprising information about flight 815 revealed by the parachutist.

Download podcast #54 here

Links related to the podcast:
Doc Jensen on Joseph Campbell
The Fuselage: general reactions
DarkUFO episode rankings
Lostpedia D.O.C. summary

LOST links:
Michael Emerson prison training video
"Dad in a box" parody video
Free audio book: Bakunin's "God and State"

Season 3 is winding down, and it looks like the best episodes are yet to come. See you next week! Stay LOST.

Comments

[Frankmagnet]

1st post Yahoo. Thanks for the early cast. Just getting the bus to college. Something to listen to now!!:)

[kristen]

hey guys, here's something i thought up last night. what if juliet is spying for ben because he threatened to harm her sister, not because he is going to send her home. as far as we know the only way for people to travel off the island was by the sub, and juliet saw it blow up, so how could she still believe ben when he says he can send her back to the mainland? we know that JACOB 'cured' juliets sister's cancer...what if ben is theatining to make the cancer come back unless juliet spys for ben, finds some way to make a pregnent girl give birth, etc.

[Cihan]

The thing with Asia and shame and all that, people can run the risk of being excommunicated from family, friends and even society if they do the wrong thing. I'm reading a book about the Tokyo sarin subway attack last decade, and after the event anyone who had any connection, however tenous, with the cult responsible, basically couldnt get work anywhere in the country, or a place to rent, etc, so I think its kind of like that. If everyone found out that Paik industries boss's daughter married a dude who's mum was a hooker, then they'd lose face, but more importantly business.

Or something, I dont know.

[Cihan]

I wonder what the scientific explanation would be for DOC on an island resulting in mothers dying? Are guys automatically infected by something on the island (that is dependant on the island for existence and is null off-island) that automatically alters their sperm or something?

Also, there's simply no way Juliet can get off the island by pointing at Sun and going "see! She gave birth!" because once Sun gives birth, Ben's going to want to see more pregnancies, and when people start dying again Juliet's going to get another mark and not a pat on the back. There's no sense for her to lie to Sun, guys.

[Cihan]

If next season there's a scene where Sun gives birth to a mixed race baby, and then the camera cuts to Jin's frozen face...

I will pee my pants.

[Master of Hell]

why even bring Joseph Campbell into this? that guy should be rolling in his grave at how these clowns are trying to create some half-ass hero myth thats longstanding in civilized cultures. this isnt real "mythology" as exemplary models of "how to live" in any degree. its a badly written comic book made for TV with the constrains of Disney/ABC smashing their balls to make this the slowest moving hunk of shit ever. its taken 5 episodes to do the following sad tasks:

1. kill nikki and paulo - which was an episode written exactly like Damon's Wolverine vs. Hulk comics. wow.
2. a fake/stupid handcuff "con" that is beyond absurd and bordering on the psychopathic. oh yeah, and to get Sawyer to throw a "party" that goes on there anyhow since they have free access to food and means to trap their own meat. thank god for leaders. what a nice "mythology" to promote.
3. someone gets sick from another psychopathic con thats activated from a "bug" months ago.
4. gather a camping trip (written by a comic nerd with his own hip "humanity cant breed" crap story. wow, blow my mind. so gutsy.)
5. pull a stick out of a chick and get a sonogram

what momentum towards the finale!
what MYTHOLOGY!
what dialog!
BORRRRRRRRRRING

but why expect the fat nerds headed to comicon to question their unconditional allegiance to staying fat and entertained?

[WebMonkey]

Can you please stop referring to Dominic Monaghan as "The Hobbit". Its annoying.

[Sobaika]

Master of Hell:

Noone's asking you to watch the show, least of all listen to the cast and then criticize on the boards. Go watch old X Files reruns if it bothers you so much.

[lostatheart]

Regarding podcast audio: Not sure if just my computer but the sound was very low although I had the computer speaker volume as high as possible. Are ya'll too far from the microphone? I noticed this on the last few podcast but not as bad. Any (nice) suggestions on my end?

[Jamie (c)]

@ WebMonkey - I guess it's one of those Hobbits they can't kick, eh mate?

Not wanting to assume anything, you do know he played a the hobbit Merry in LOTR, right?

[jg]

@ Jamie & WebMonkey,
Like Golum calling the Ring "My Precious"...a nasty Hobbit.

[Sarah]

Thanks for posting the michael emerson prison video guys- hilarious! he's actually quite good looking in that video...

[Jamie (c)]

Guys - I so hate the idea that the Smoke Monster manifests itself as things and people, that if it indeed ends up being so, I'll be done with the show. That's just too weak of a story element for me. (ooo so harsh)

Mikhail was shoved through the fence, not smokey in a Mikhail suit. He then thanked Locke for shoving him through because he could now fake death and escape captivity, obviously knowing the Losties would be too lazy to bury him.

I'm sure he went back to the Flame, turned off the LP torches built into the window frames and went back to work fixing the uplink.

[Nimrod]

Dudes, you've GOT to start listening to the official Lost podcast!!! You can't seriously be doing a podcast not knowing what the creators are saying about the show. They give a LOT of important information and good insight into the way they are thinking, and this should be interesting to you guys. And if you start listening to it, you're not going to have to quote them incorrectly, like you just did: The official Lost podcast did NOT confirm for sure that Desmond travelled back in time. What they said is that "it really happened". That's not necessarily the same. All they said is that it was a real experience. We don't know what that means yet. You should know this! Remember that the official Lost podcast is the ONLY one out there that's better than yours, simply because they're the only ones that actually know a 100% what they're talking about.

That aside: you're the best (...well: 2nd best,but...). Keep it up!!

[guest]

Nimrod is right.
I just listened to the official abc podcast from february 20th again . Damon did not say desmond traveled back in time , he said that Desmonds "flashback" experiences once realy happened.

[Chris in Oly]

Just listened to the Podcast and was a little confused about the claim Hurley never lied. There was the whole conning Sawyer episode where he lied for most of the episode. It might be correct to say Hurley does not lie well under pressure or out of his element, but it is clear Hurley can lie really well.

[rok]

holy crap, something just crystallized for me (until someone points out an episode where it's completely disproven, but c'est la vie)...

something that's been bugging me is figuring out ben's motivation. he either believes he's saving the world, or his own skin, or maybe both. so, ben said he has lived there all his life. did he say he was born on the island? i think he did. i think he said it alongside "not many others here can claim the same thing." or something to that effect. you know what that makes ben? HE'S THE CONTROL SUBJECT. he CAN'T leave the island until someone else gives birth on the island successfully. his motivation is actually to get off the island, too, just like juliet, but jacob (and whatever other on-island powers-that-be with influence over the island) won't let him leave.

[Tahir]

Once again - another great podcast.

There are loads of Lost podcasts out there but this is the best by far.

Thanks dudes.

[rok]

hmmm... possible spoiler here for those who do not listen to the spoilers-section. an interesting image of an actor coming up in a future episode this season, alongside his counterpart. i'm not sure it's a spoiler, but it is related to a future episode, so don't click if you want to stay lost...

http://www.imdb.com/gallery/hh/1869029/HH/1869029/iid_1284887.jpg.html?hint=group

[Mike in the Box]

Subject: The Official Podcast

A lot of people use the OLP to give "proof" to some theory or another. My concern is that Damon and Carlton are to be trusted about as much as Ben and Juliet. Damon and Carlton often present information in a "tongue-in-cheek" manner that allows the listeners to take things one way or another. They often lead the listener to think one thing but never just come right out and say it. My point is that we should be very skeptical of what the two of them say. They are trying to tell a story, give us a few tidbits here and there, and at the same time maintain a sense of mystery. There are very few things that we can, without a doubt, say regarding the show. We really know so little.

[g]

WOW, sorry, "wasn't Patchy buried"? Are you even trying anymore? Do you watch the show? Used to be insightful, now it sounds like you are trying to make mysterious where they are none. Just make sure you watch each episode like 2 or 3, or 4 or 5 times each week like I do. Maybe that's why I have a much better idea of what's going on I watch each show a few times and I have a photographic memory, if you don't, you should do your homework. Patchy wasn't buried, he healed, he's the smoke monster? What? LOL

[JackedupLockedown]

TODAYS LOST FORECAST
MOSTLY CLOUDY
TEMPS RANGING FROM HOT TO COLD &
A 90% CHANCE JACK IS WORKING FOR THE OTHERS
Someone put that tape recorder in the medical station in advance which means Juliet knew she was going there all along, which means Ben and her knew Sun was pregnant. How did they find this out? Only possible way I can see is Jack…right? If we believe she conceived on the Island then they would not know about it unless someone told them. It’s not like Juliet said “hey Ben guess what, great news Suns super Preggers.” No she gave Ben follow up information. So there’s that.

PART TWO: MASTER THEORY as it relates to the “Jack Bauer crisis” aka WHO ARE YOU WORKING FOR (master theory part 2 of 5)
DISCLAIMER: Maybe it was all the drugs I was on over the last few weeks in my convalescence, but my crystal ball is becoming clearer and clearer to me. So much so I am starting to think I might have a point. So I ask of you; may your words be the daggers that run through my far-fetched less then Occam-friendly conjecture. I’m sure it will be long winded. I only ask you do you best…

Alright so groove on this lost hepcats…I feel a head coming to Others vs. Losties conflict. The larger conflict at the heart of the show goes back to the forces that brought flight 815 to the Island and all the people before and since and that’s what awaits us as this season ends and the storyline progresses.

There seems to be two routes to the Island, or at least there were. You can come peacefully by choice, as we have seen Juliet do, can be sure that Dharma and related personnel did and we are led to believe that Mikhail did. The second way is not so pleasant; you can inexplicably crash there as 815 did as well as Desmond, Henry Gale, Yemi and presumably Rousseau. These are two very distinct methods of arrival that would seem to reflect different purposes or motivations for them being there.

I use purpose and motivation because I believe that is the crux of the central conflict. Motivation is the driving force behind mankind; Ben despite understanding this so confidently that he uses it as his main form of human interaction is still a victim of it. Motivation is why communism always fails, people stay of welfare and sports cars will always sell.
Purpose is a driving force behind faith. The Island represents faith people with great faith are rewarded by the Island. Locke demonstrated faith by following his visions and sacrificing Boone and was rewarded by the Island which allowed him to keep his legs after it showed him it could take them away. Rose demonstrated great faith in her husband Bernard’s survival and was rewarded by having her cancer cured. Both were faithful people in their lives before the Island as well. Conversely Ben has lost faith and so the Island will not cure his tumor. He may or may not understand this, my guess is he refuses to believe it, I see him as an equal stubborn parallel to Jack.

So I’ve kind of switched over with this part which was hard for me but the pieces fit anyway I now think Ben’s group did bring the plane here. I just don’t think any (except Ben Jacob etc) or at least not many of them knew. The Island knew what they were doing though and as always had a counter for it.

Three groups of Castaways (excluding those who have won multiple Oscars and talk to sporting goods)

A GROUP: Losties brought by Bencob (Ben and Jacob) for specific purposes.
Jack – Dad’s not in the coffin and never was needed Jack on that flight though.
Claire – Psychic changes his mind, Claire’s back on the flight.
Walt & Michael – Before he ever meet them the Others had a purpose for Walt
Sawyer – They set him up to kill that guy in Oz.; needed him on the plane
Kate – The one armed farmer set her up. Ray Mullen knows more about Dharma then you can imagine
The Children – “I believe the children are our future”

B GROUP: The few, the faithful the Island’s recruits
Locke – He was born for this, maybe literally
Desmond – someone’s gotta bend those timelines to get people on the plane
Rose & Bernard – Ain’t no stopping’ love
Sun & Jin – see Rose and Bernard
Hurley – Two words “The Cobra”
Charlie – Seems to be the pawn you just can’t shed.

C GROUP: Lucky to survive (AKA Black guys on star trek)
Nina and Pablo
Shannon
Ana Lucia
Arst
Scott
Steve

There’s a few I am still up in the air about like Sayid for example.

But that’s where this excruciating portion of the theory stops…stay tuned for part two of five of the master theory as it pertains to “The Lewis and Martin demise” AKA WHERE DID WE GO WRONG

@ Cihan

You’re really pulling for the Michael\Sun connection huh? Hope you got your Depends™ ready.

@ Mike in the box

I agree…sort of. I think you can be sure that they will not lie, but I also think that ambiguous sort of half answer way they have from time to time should be taken for what it is. The important thing is to listen to it first hand so you can distinguish between them confirming something (i.e. not purgatory, Christian Shepard dead) and them playing their semi-homoerotic passive aggressive games. I love that podcast.

SpLostace

[Cihan]

I think the official podcast gets too much flak. Its essential listening, they clear up whats a production error and what is an actual easter egg, they provide insight into many things, while making me chucke like a fool. Regarding this podcast's example though, the official podcast was as direct as you can get in explaining that Sun's baldheaded friend did commit suicide. (I think they've tried to explain this fact to listeners numerous times to be honest)

---

lol@jackedup...

---

@rok. Interesting idea about Ben, I like it. Kind of amusing to think everyone wants to leave that damn island!

[Mark B]

New OLP is out .....

[Mark B]

Just listened to it and the OLP says (or I think it says)

SOME SPOILERS HERE, KIND OF ......

1. Jin is the father.
2a. Naomi is called Naomi Dorritt. Named I assume after Dickens novel Little Dorritt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Dorritt
2b. Naomi is either lying about the plane being found or the crash was staged by someone.
3. Mikhail was not killed because the fence was not turned high enough or he 'died' and was saved by the island. Implied the former is true. Mikhail will probably tell the Losties how he survived.
4. Hurleys flash was a camera "flare". Nothing else.
5a. Locke has been off with the Others. Living with them. 5b. The Others are going somewhere.
6. Cooper will tell us how he got to the island.
7. In "Numbers" Carltons voice was the announcer on the lottery win on tv. Don’t think I've seen that Easter egg before.
8. The button not being pushed is not the only method of craft getting bought to the island but was needed for 815 says Damon. Fate is another option says Carlton.
9. Pseudo-science can explain everything, but they included nanobots, dinosaurs and time travel in that so a pretty much open ended option.
10. They will return to Claires psychic and his abilities.
11. The Others are interested in children with special abilities not necessarily all children. (I think -- this was very rushed).
12. There are two factions of the Others which will become very apparent in the next few episodes.
13. A brief reference to the Watchman was made.
14. We will return to the four toed statue before the end of the season.
15. Some other jokey answers to some lame questions.

[Eric]

I don't remember for sure either, but I think Kate and co left Mikhail to the carrion. I think the others already had some sort of hold on Locke and that he and Mikhail were "working together." The fence doesn't do anything to humans and Mikhail just had a mouthful of pop rocks and Alka-Seltzers.

That's my feeling anyway. Stay LOST.

[Radzinsky]

Last week I made a reference to Krakatoa... that was a mistake.

I meant to ask whether anyone was familiar with Krakoa (I think I have the spelling right)?

Do any of you know the difference?

@ Jackie

Ambitious theory. I've been toying with the idea that EVERYONE was brought to the Island for a reason for a while too, but couldn't get there. You're *almost* there. Good effort. I'm still not sure we can make that theory stand up.

@ kristen

Yes, I absolutely agree, I think Ben has some sort of leverage that he is using against Juliet. I believe she is acting under duress -- we see too many "kind" Juliet moments to fully believe that she is a baddie like some of the Others. I think she's doing what she has to do to either: (1) get off the Island, (2) save lives (perhaps her sister's life); or (3) some combination of both.

~Radzinsky

[jg]

ummm...
I think I missed a couple of memos.

1) Michael being the possible father of Sun's kid.

2) Parthnogenesis. Was this word actually used on the show?

Or are these just wild speculations like my Portuguese Templar involvement idea? Fun none the less.

[Mark B]

@Eric : If the sonic fence does nothing to humans does Patchy have some blood squirting pumps in his ears too ?

@kirsten and radz : the leverage is getting off the island, surely Juliet wants nothing else. Shes a fool though because the Others apparently know where her sister is.

@jg : Speculation based on Micheal and Sun being a little freindly and some looks between them when Sun and Jin were not speaking. I've totally missed the Parthnogenesis too but it may have been mentioned in her interview with Mittleos.

[ebonX]

Re: Latest OLP

Thanks to Mark B. for posting his synopsis of the latest OLP ...

8. Freewill vs. Fate Argument - As I have stated previously, it is my belief that the "Freewill vs. Fate" aspect of this show will never be resolved. This part of the show will be left open-ended by the TPTB, as it depends on how each viewer interprets things ... TPTB supported this notion with their comment concerning Flight 815 crash (Cause & Effect or Fate ... Gave 2 answers - both equally valid) in the latest OLP.

9. Scientific/Pseudo-scientific Explanations - TPTB's view that LOST can be explained with "Crichton-science" is a very good rule to follow ... To me this means that everything on the show must be, at least minutely, based on some real-world scientific principle. Michael Crichton (and more recently Dan Brown) have used this technique in their writings ... Crichton's "Jurassic Park" (dinosaur DNA), "Sphere" (consciousness & reality), & "Andromeda Strain" (synthetic viruses) ... Brown's "Angels & Demons" (anti-matter) & "Digital Fortress" (digital encryption). In any case, in means that multi-verse, alternate reality, time-shifting, etc. theories are still possible explanations on LOST.

12. The Other Others - Confirmed that there are multiple Others' factions on the Island ... This would seem to support JackedUp's speculation that there are a group of Other Others, sort of ...

13. Watchmen Reference was in regards to a 19th-century poem about Ozymandias. The connection is ...

Watchmen --> Ozymandias --> Ramesses II --> Remnants of Four-Toed Statue

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias

14. Remnants of the Four-Toed Statue - I believe CC/DL said an explanation for the statue will come before the "SERIES Finale" (not season finale) ... Don't want to get anyone's hopes up.

That's all for now ... Stay LOST!

[JackedupLockedown]

Reposting the first part of my post...did anyone else cover this here this forum...

How did the others know Sun was pregnant?

Someone put that tape recorder in the medical station in advance which means Juliet knew she was going there all along, which means Ben and her knew Sun was pregnant. How did they find this out? Only possible way I can see is Jack…right? If we believe she conceived on the Island then they would not know about it unless someone told them. It’s not like Juliet said “hey Ben guess what, great news Suns super Preggers.” No she gave Ben follow up information. So there’s that. Again.

Thanks,

Jackie

I'd be LOST if I lost tivo

[jg]

@ Jackie,
I think most of us did. I'm still mulling it over. The preplacement of the recorder and her follow-up summary was a key catch. You get an "A". Really...good job.

[James DeMass]

TO ALL LOSTIES.

I need your help. How does Charlie recognize Patches and know who he is? He has never seen him before, or has he?

Can someone help me out with this problem please.

Thanks

james

[Matt Jones]

It was my impression that they are checking all the 815er chicks for pregnancy. Sun was just the lucky winner.

[chris in oly]

@JackedUp

I think the plan was to get samples from the Losties' woman. So, while they probably did not know which women were pregnant - it is a pretty safe bet that after 80-90 days on a desert island with no TV, some (if not all) of the women are pregnant - especially if the guys are ridiculously more fertile. So it is no surpirse they left the recorder in the hatch and expected Juliet to leave the samples there. So the dialog makes sense if you expected pregnant people. But if Sun is the only woman pregnant on the beach after 80-90 days, I would lose all fatih in the writers. Any contraception would have run out after about 2 months.

That medical hatch is nearby, it has secret hatches to easily hide samples, so it is ideal. I would bet that if Ben put an implant in Claire just in case she escaped before they took her baby and kicked her to the curb, he has a few tape recorders in various places for Juliet to check in at or similar places to leave messages.

It is also possible Jack gave the information to Ben or gave the information to Juliet who is playing spy and revealed the information.

I would expect Rose is preggers as well, heck, I would expect all married couples to be pregnant because of the healing properties of the island.

[JackedupLockedown]

@ jg

You kindness warms my heart like Grilled Cheese on a Hibachi.

What do you think about Jack current motivations compared to Jack before the season 2 finale and Jack before the crash...seems like three different driving forces behind his actions. I can't stand Matthew Fox (for no reason at all) but he is one of the better written for and better portrayed characters on a show where character depth is a strength.

Your thoughts homey?

Jackie

Why ask for directions, we're not LOST

[JackedupLockedown]

@ Chris in Oly and Matt Jones

Thanks guys, very good alternative option. In fact William of Occam said he likes that bandwagon better. I watched the scene again and I gotta say your plan makes much more sense. Can't believe I did not pick up on that option. Good stuff dudes.

[chris in oly]

@James

Charlies recognized Patchy because he claimed that off camera Kate told them about the encounter with Patchy and pushing him into the fence. Since the physical characteristic of one good eye is pretty easy to spot, Charlie got it right, and it kinda makes sense. I think the may point of that exclamation was to indicate that the Losties are actually tlaking to each other now instead of pulling a Paulo and not telling anyone about creepy Ben in the hatch watching them.

[Mark B]

I agree with Matt Jones, the Others are planning on checking every woman. Seems obvious to start with the married/attached ones as they are more likely to be having rumpy-pumpy (though hang on I'm married). Rose probably isn't preggo as she's more than likely post-menopausal.

Could the tape recorder just be put there for Jules to report back anything ? It's just a coincidence that she was there checking out Sun with the ultrasound. Or at least that's what I thought anyway. OK reading more posts maybe it was there for her to report on any ultrasounds that she'd done.

[jg]

Subject: 815 women testing

I find this a stretch. I think Juliet said Ethan was getting samples of the 815 women. How was he doing it? If they are talking blood samples…that’s pretty hard to do without the testee knowing about it. A needle sticking in a vein usually gets a person’s attention. Now, you could get samples from people if you sneak around like a perv when they go to the woods for ‘essentials’…but that’s too gross …even for 21st century TV.

Or now, is Juliet going to say to all the ladies: “Hey guys I would like to do a few tests on you. Trust me I’m a doctor.” The ladies say,” That sounds great.”…Doubt it.

[james DeMass]

If this is a time dimensional Island isnt it possible that the smoke monsters are from the future?

Juliet said that the others were aware of them but didn't know what they were.

I wonder what other future things are on the island?

[Radzinsky]

I'm no expert, but on most pregnancy tests, isn't a little #1 involved? That's how Sun used the Widmore pregnancy test previously, isn't it? In other words, if you were careful and you paid attention to where all the ladies were taking their tinkles, would it be so hard to go around the Island and gather "samples"?

On that basis, I'm not sure at all that Jack would have had to inform the Others that Sun was pregnant. The level of preparation that goes into Juliet's presence in the Losties' camp is considerable -- there was already the marked tree and the buried medkit waiting for her on her arrival. Is it such a stretch to think that they would have put a tape recorder in the Staff hatch in the event that Juliet would use it? I don't think we need to read too far into the placement of the tape recorder.

What Jack's up to is another story entirely, however -- and I'm long on record as saying that he either knows what Juliet is up to or is in on the plan himself, if the plan indeed involves double-crossing Ben.

Anyway -- the secret's in the pee. And that's just the kind of insightful contribution I think you've all come to expect from me.

~Radzinsky

[Mark B]

subject: testing women

I don't think Juliet will go hunting pee in the woods esp. given we've barely even touched on the whole bathroom break scenario -- other than Paulo -- it's tv people we don't need to know. My guess is that Juliet will discover who's being playing hide the sausage and will manufacture an accident so she can tend to their cut/graze and will keep the bloody swab to test. First up Miss Kate Austen.

[Mark B]

Sorry case of premature sending there meant to add....

But I don't think she'll get to run many tests perhaps just Kate as the season finale is approaching so we'll have that to deal with.

What would be a twist is that she found out she was preggo -- either by Goodwin or Jack.

[I_Love_Sayid...&_Lostcasts]

@ Mark B

Goodwin?

[Bored at work]

@jg

Re: Lostie Women & Samples

We don't necesarily know the samples are strictly to determine pregnancy, do we?

Cause remember Ethan collecting samples = lots of missing hair brushes, not necesarily poking veins for blood.

[chris in oly]

@Bored

Great call - all the missing combs finally make sense. I remember all those theories about the missing combs! My favorite was that static electricity from combing on the island was dangerous - not that it made sense but was funny. Getting a genetic sample makes much more sense...

[chris in oly]

@Bored

Great call - all the missing combs finally make sense. I remember all those theories about the missing combs! My favorite was that static electricity from combing on the island was dangerous - not that it made sense but was funny. Getting a genetic sample makes much more sense...

[Mark B]

@I Love .....

Juliet had a relationship with Goodwin. She was seen in bed with him sometime before 815 came down. I think it was in "One of Us". Not sure if the dates add up it maybe too long ago. Hang on I'll check ... rushes to Lostpedia. Can't really tell it was the day Ben found out he had a tumour which was just before the plane crashed so she'd be 3 months gone by now ... not really an option then. My bad.

[Brian]

I'm listening to you now and I just feel the need to speak my peace here. Patchy != Smokey. Ever.

It couldn't have been Smokey getting tossed through the fence because he would have hit that invisible wall that the real smokey hit while chasing Jules and Kate. I think that is reason enough.

But then there is something else of note: smokey has never (at least not to our knowledge) presented himself to more than one person. Only Eko saw Yemi. Only Kate saw the pony. Only Jack saw Cobr... errr.. his dad.

Is it POSSIBLE smokey has manifested himself to many people at once? Sure. But there is no evidence to back that up. So why would smokey now start showing up as Patchy? Smokey likes to play those personality testing games... how is Patchy coming to take the sat phone a smokey-like behavior? It makes no sense... and on LOST, that's saying a lot.

Occam says it was Patchy both times. He got severely beaten up by the sonic pulse, but knew he'd be up and running around in a day... hence the grinning. He sees the flare, thinks its his people (Maybe even Klugh) and he runs to rendezvous with them.

[jg]

Bored,
Brilliant
Brotha

[jg]

Subject: testing

In real life the hair brushes would offer good genetic material. There is no evidence that the Others have the appropriate high tech genetic lab that it would take to make the hair of use.

But, if the Professor on Giligan's Island can make a radio out of coconuts...or Jack can perform spinal surgery without anesthesia....then maybe the hair is of use...

[jg]

Subject: testing

In real life the hair brushes would offer good genetic material. There is no evidence that the Others have the appropriate high tech genetic lab that it would take to make the hair of use.

But, if the Professor on Giligan's Island can make a radio out of coconuts...or Jack can perform spinal surgery without anesthesia....then maybe the hair is of use...

[jg]

What the...

[jg]

LOST science so far:
Crichton-esque-No
Dean Koontz-Yes

[Mark B]

@Brian

Call me a pedant but Sawyer saw Kates horse too. But other than that I agree no way Mikhail is Smokey. Sorry podcast John but your way off track there. And I think from comments later on the 'cast you know it too. Come on 'fess up.

[Tyroga]

OMG if they found the plane and non-survivors it could be something similar to a show I saw once.

In this movie people from the future came back through a time-vortex, inside a plane that was about to crash. The people were removed from the plane and replaced with replicas. The time vortex closed and the plane was allowed to crash.

The people had all been removed and taken to a childless future in the hope of kick-starting the human race again. The people were only able to make a certain number of "jumps" etc. Millennium was the name of the movie http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097883/ based on the book by John Varley.

[JackedupLockedown]

WOW Tyroga what a find.

Yhe wikipedia article is very brief but opens a very interesing door.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_%28novel%29

I personally like this potential storyline much more then any other time traveling twist I've heard thus far.

Could they be in the future?

In just a slight variation are the just outside the space\time continuum?

No doubt the writers are aware of this at the least and the fact that the OLP* sort of hinted at a conspiracy well makes it even more of a kismet. Timing is everything.

*WARNING: Cuse and Lindelof my be interperated differently by different people

[JackedupLockedown]

"They're not who they say they are"

[jg]

@ Jackie,
Jack is an interesting in that his character has apparently taken on a life of his own. That is, Jack was to be killed off in the first season yet he now is a key player. I think Jack's flaw or whatever is that he has had no heart felt purpose prior to the crash. He filled a role. He became a spinal surgeon like he was supposed to do. He filled the doctor role just fine. But, until now he was not at the helm of his destiny.

A creation that really has taken on its own life is Ben. He was only to be around for 3 episodes or so. I'm thankful that Ben has 'arisen' . He is a great character.

I know that some of my projects have taken on a life of their own. The finished product is usually far more interesting than my initial idea. Long live these Frankensteins...or may they die an interesting deaths...

[DocLocke]

I think Jack's headed for an untimely death, but not this season. It would be fitting given the original intent to off him in the pilot. Plus, it would nicely tie up the ongoing love triangle.

[Mark B]

By conspiracy I think that the OLP was refering to a post-crash conspiracy. That is, the plane crashed just as we saw and the Losties survived but 'whoever' did not want anyone looking for them so they staged a fake wreckage site (as discussed in the previous comments section or perhps this one they'd not need a whole plane or 300 odd deadpeople just a few sizeable pieces and some luiggage and an odd body or two which they could have gotten from the real crash site on the island) not a conspiracy to either bring the plane down or select the survivors.

As I've said before I hope that the series does not sudden leap into the 'true' sci-fi realm and g all time-travel or space time-contnum on us. However the movie Millenium sounds interesting.

[Mike Harris aka Rupert]

Hi Guys,

I was listening to DOC podcast last night and whilst you were discussing Michael's resurrection something occurred to me. I have been a little sceptical about old 'Smokey' manifesting itself as humans but maybe it can 'reanimate' the dead somehow. All the manifestations have been physical (although dead) 'bodies' on the Island - Jack's Dad, Ecko's Brother, Mikhael. I know there are other visions that have been seen and attributed to Smokey - Kate's Horse, Hurley's Mad Friend Dave etc but as ever with this show the questions the writers pose us always seem to have more than one answer!

[JackedupLockedown]

@ Rupert

Mikhail was not Smokey you can be sure of that. The one I wonder about is "Dave"...Was that Smookey or was Hurley really starting to lose it again at that time?

Just as a side not, never met anyone named Dave I liked. I am like 0\12 or something.

@ Mark B

I tend to agree with your thoughts on the potential conspiracy. I think it's more likely the people who staged the crash simply removed the tail section and deposited somewhere else in the Ocean and claimed to have found it with a few dead bodies and because it was so far out at seas everyone just assumed clearly no survivors. That's the Razor result anyway. y tu?

@ JG

Michael Emerson has been dynamite as Ben since he was first shown hanging in that net. Great actor, great character to be sure. So far I'd say Locke, Ben, Mikhail and Sayid are the characters I am most interested in. Locke because his actions in the first episodes of the show made me absolutly have to see the end of his story arc. Ben for a lot of the reasons you mentioned, Mikhail because he is almost cartoon like. As I mentioned before he reminds me of a Guy Ritchie character. Sayid is interesting because his back story has really not come full circle and on the Island no one seems interested in him. He is kind of his own entity. Also Hurley rules!

Jack me up before you go go

i've LOST it

[Mark B]

subject: Mikhail is not Smokey

The main reason I think Mikhail is not Smokey is that as far as I can remember Smokey as a person has not actually physcically interacted with anyone. As animals he/she seems to have interacted a bit more .... Sayids cat moved the carpet but was that Sayids cat ? Kate may have touched the horse but I don't recall, if she did it was a quick stroke before the horse took off. Mikhail clearly had full interaction with a few people and stole the radio. Dave and Yemi basically did nothing other than talk and walk. Mikhail is not Smokey.

[amy'o]

Hey guys - Yet another good podcast, but one observation. Not entirely related to the storyline, but I had to mention that not all pregnant women are clingy and insecure. When my husband and I were expecting our kids - he was encouraged to continue to hang with the guys, go camping, hiking and snowshoeing... even did a 2 week hike through the Grand Canyon when we were 6 months along.

Given how early Sun is in her pregnancy, and how little there is to do on the island and how much of a 'village' she has, she probably shooed him along.

Keep up the good work.

[jg]

@ Jackie,
To be sure, Locke is the most interesting. But the creators have had his character in mind since the zygote stages of the development of LOST.

So to, I agree, Sayid probably has the most horrific backstory (much of which we may only be able to surmise). I therefore find him extremely interesting.

But as watching sheer creative evolution, its interesting to see what Jack and Ben will do. I am not a writer or otherwise artististic, so I can't really articulate what I'm thinking, but I still find it cool to watch their development.

[my-2-cents]

@ jg & Mark B, RE: PARTHENOGENESIS

Parthenogenesis (self-fertilization) is mentioned in Lostpedia as a possible cause for Sun’s pregnancy. I had sent John Kheeler the link last week:
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Sun-Hwa_Kwon/Theories

Doc Waxman

[my-2-cents]

@ Tyroga,

Great “Millienium” movie reference!
That one gets a lot of airplay on cable.

Doc Waxman

[my-2-cents]

@ ebonX:

Thanks for the “Ozymandias” reference!
I’m gonna read up on that tonight.
Project Gutenberg’s has available the text of another story “Headlong Hall” with a 4-toed stone figure in it:
www.gutenberg.org/etext/12803
The statue’s foot also recalls the Colosus of Rhodes:
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Four-Toed_Statue

I personally like Jack Finney’s use of giant statuary lying in pieces as part of his time travel masterpiece “Time and Again.” There are enough unmistakable parallels to LOST in this one to almost canonize it among LOST’s other literary inspirations.
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_and_Again_%28novel%29 )
If the idea there was to PREVENT someone’s birth, then maybe JACOB and/or Ben’s group is trying to ENSURE the birth of a pivotal historical figure whose parents had otherwise been doomed in the original 815 crash timeline (“not in purgatory; not dead”).

Doc Waxman

[my-2-cents]

@ RADZ, RE: KRAKOA

Yes! Krakoa! Brilliant! The Living Island from Marvel Comics that “walks like a man.”
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krakoa )
The cover picture’s creature looks like the rough configuration of the Smoke Monster when it swatted Eko against the jungle trees like a rag doll in “The Cost of Living” (S3E5). Lends credence to Locke saying “The Island” killed Eko. Many other uncanny similarities!

“No more intelligent than an animal, […] Xavier […] erased all records of the real events in Cyclops' mind […] altered the mutants' minds to cast the illusion of a speaking, sentient Krakoa […] an animal-like system whose intelligence was merely survival instinct.”

Doc Waxman

[my-2-cents]

@ Cihan, ALL, RE: FERTILITY MYSTERIES

Here are 3 "Star Trek: The Next Generation"
episodes that appear to share some of the same
plot points and thematic elements with storylines
in LOST to do with children & infertility:

Star Trek TNG episode: "When the bough breaks."
Advanced race of infertile humanoids kidnaps "special" children, relying on a cloaking shield to disguise their planet's location.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_the_Bough_Breaks_%28TNG_episode%29

Star Trek TNG episode: "The Child"
Mysterious conception of a humanoid child has
consequences for containment of a dangerous plague.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Child_%28TNG_episode%29

Star Trek TNG episode: "Unnatural Selection"
A colony of telepathic children on a research colony possess genetically advanced immune systems that unwittingly attack adults, causing the scientists around them to age & die prematurely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unnatural_Selection_%28TNG_episode%29.

Doc Waxman

[my-2-cents]

@ Jamie (c), RE: SMOKEY AS MIKHAIL,

I’m okay with Smokey manifesting as people like Yemi & Christian, but not Mikhail – in THIS instance. The Mikhail we saw last week was way too animated & true to life; he was the exact same pixilated, intelligence-gathering Ruskie we met in Enter 77. By contrast, Smokey’s Christian zombie & monotone Yemi manifestations had a one-track mind, isolating just 1 or 2 people at calculated moments while cloaked in a familiar form. Smokey might skillfully assess someone’s spiritual virtue (Eko), cause an islander (Jack) to feel disoriented, or even project a horse from past memory, always drawing directly from the individual’s mind that he encounters. Smokey goes into situations holding all the cards. He has no need to “ask” for info when he can just scan someone’s mind. Now, how Mikhail escaped his sonic send-off, I don’t know.

Doc Waxman

[my-2-cents]

@ Rok,

If Ben is the control subject for on-island births, then what proposed methodology is being tested or proved? So far, it seems more like they’re just groping for a successful treatment as they go. Could Ben have been “born” there in a spiritual sense? “Reborn”?

Doc Waxman

[my-2-cents]

Touché to “Nimrod,” “guest” & “g”!!!

The Lostcasters do drop the ball on research & references often enough to suck some of the enjoyment from the Sunday chats. Sorry. Here are a few nitpicks w/o putting out a full ERRATA (links available upon request):

There was NO flash with Desmond & Penny on the beach; BuddyTV debunked that one. Losties never buried Mikhail post-Sonic Fence. Ausiello specifically named a character who would NOT be dying in the finale, but this was completely ignored as a possibility in Lostcasts, where the same source is often ostensibly relied upon for other vital clues. (“AuSELLio?” Dudes, It’s “AUSI-ELLO.” “Scott.” “Steve.” Whatever.) As for omissions, OLP recently made a big point about Charlie's death possibly being counter-intuitive; deserved at least a brief airing out. Also, no Lostlink to Lostpedia’s “Parthenogenetic” theory left a few people hanging.

NOW, Lostcasts is still the most engaging podcast out there! Or else I’d have to rely on Cuse & Lindelof’s puckish teases. I think this north-Dallas trio is at their best when they gather momentum building on one another’s theories & insights, together framing more brilliant sketches of the show’s direction as a result. No campy humor here either, just straight up Heckle-n-Jeckle guy-talk. Their integrity is solid since they admittedly deliver EXACTLY as much as they feel like putting into the podcast each week, with no apologies. Asked recently whether they might expand certain features of this site’s offerings, Matt Jones impishly replied:

"You think guys that watch as much TV
as us can possibly be that motivated.
We’re lucky just to get a podcast up every week...
We do this for fun and excuse to get out of the house...
We’d probably keep doing this even if everyone said we sucked...
I come here [comments section] to get my material...
think of us as a great bar for networking."
( http://www.lostcasts.com/2007/04/get_ready_one_o.html#comment-66193706 )

But the soul of the ‘cast is in their unique presentation, anyway. The independent vibe & informal journalistic curiosity being voiced here is gonna keep listeners plugged in, even when those same listeners are sure major points are being missed from week to week. That’s the glory AND the folly of being true originals and pioneering your own style.

Doc Waxman

[my-2-cents]

New Official UK Podcast for "D.O.C." is out:

http://skyscape.sky.com/skynewsradio/PODCAST/lost18.mp3

These "brothas from another lover" are a really funny alternative. "The LOST Initiative" is sponsored by the SkyOne network that airs LOST across the pond. I'm curious to know what some of the British/Aussie/anglo-phile commenters here think of this trio. Here's my description from Sunday:

***

Get your podcast-on-crack fix!
Here's the UK's official LOST Podcast for "Catch-22":

http://skyscape.sky.com/skynewsradio/PODCAST/lost17.mp3

No match for our Lostcasters, certainly less-informed, but "Geeky Tom" & his crew are hilarious!! Kind of a quirky, Ricky Gervais/Mike-Myers-British-spoof feel to this. Ridalin-fueled, quick-paced chatter; capped at 30 minutes.

Features great intro/outtro clips,
dramatic (superfluous) background music throughout.
Irreverent British-isms, listener call-ins,
& a unique approach to "rubbish" listener emails.
More limey lightning rounds archived here:

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/UK_podcast

***

Doc Waxman

[jg]

@ Doc & Radz...,
Subject: Krakoa
Like I said the Smoke monster=Dirt monster

[Mark B]

subject: UK Lostcoast
Well as a Brit I found it really funny but I'm sure the main bloke is sooo trying to be the 'other' bloke in the Gervais podcasts (sorry forget both names). I can see how it would get annoying not only for the prosaic humour but because they seem to jump from subject to subject without really finishing the previous one. Typical Britsh humour, laiden with sarcasm, dry ironic wit and a bit of abuse thrown in to round it all off. Defo worth a listen.

subject: Lostcasts missing bits and bobs
Have to agree with Doc Waxman that the recent casts have missed a few points that we (the comment section) seem to have discussed and thought very relavent -- perhaps that is why they were missed because we'd done them to death -- I assume most listeners read this section. I recall earlier casts referencing the comments section way more. I guess this is the price we pay for having back-to-back episodes not enough time for the full-on research. It must be really time consuming doing casts week after week. Still seven months off in three weeks or so 8-(

BTW I was looking at the Lospedia pages for Unofficial podcasts and Lostcasts is the only one with a main page. Ryan of the Transmission gets one more for his insider stuff. The Lostcast page is a bit out of date but still.

[frankmorris]

@ Jackedup

Re: your list (about 50 posts ago)
Sayid could be linked to Kate's dad (Major Austen) &/or Kelvin. He may have set-up Kate for that matter, but I'm not sure what his motivation would be.

[my-2-cents]

"LITTLE DORRIT"

Latest OLP makes reference to Dickensian elements, & to Naomi's surname being "Dorrit," all pointing to Dickens' 1850's novel "Little Dorrit." A grim critique of cruel bureaucracies & institutions, Little Dorrit's surprising psychological horror was eventually made into a 1988 serial art film co-produced by Richard Goodwin.

You can catch a pretty good summary here:
http://www.bibliomania.com/0/0/19/39/frameset.html

Or take it a chapter at a time here (as well):
http://dickens.thefreelibrary.com/Little-Dorrit

(Project Gutenberg's e-text of Little Dorrit is E-NORMOUS!
http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext97/ldort10.txt )

Doc Waxman

[my-2-cents]

ANY "SNAKE IN THE MAILBOX" THEORIES?

Cuse & Lindelof's codename for this season's top-secret finale scene is "The Snake in the Mailbox."

http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Columnists/Ask-Ausiello/default.aspx?columndate=17-Jan-2007

Any relation to:
"The Cobra"?
JACOB's identity?
Alternate quantum timelines?

What do we think this could be?

Doc Waxman

[my-2-cents]

4 days from now folks in the U.K. will watch "The Brig" on Sky One.
8 minutes from now I'll be in bed.
15 hours from now folks in Nova Scotia will just have seen "The Brig."
16 days from now people in Germany will see "Enter 77."
23 days from now folks in New Zealand will be rehashing "Catch-22."
42 days from now folks in Australia will just have seen "One of Us."

Doc Waxman

[Tahir]

I heard this on another podcast but could the numbers
have something to do with the pregnancy cycle.
i.e. certain things happen to pregnant women on the island
at 4 weeks, 8 weeks, 15 weeks, 16 weeks etc.

Is this the cycle, or numbers, they are trying to change ? And when changed women can succesfully give birth on the island.

My crazy theory is could it have been forseen that the end of the world would be the inability to give birth.And on this island the women are PURPOSELY 'infected' to try and find a solution to this problem.Hence, this makes 'The Others' the good guys.

In the Lost Experience don't they talk about villagers and a rouse about a vacine and a certain percentage of people dying being allowed ?

Dharma gave up.Maybe 'The Others', with help from outside, carried on with the reasearch.However every once in a while they need more men and women to come to the island.

[Mike in the Box]

HAPPY LOST DAY!

I have so much anticipation for tonight's episode. Do we get confirmation that Anthony Cooper is actually Sawyer's "Sawyer"? It appears that way. Plus, I want to know what happened between the time that Locke saw Cooper on the island and when he said "goodbye" to Kate. It looked like he had been in some sort of physical altercation. really looking forward to it all...

[JackedupLockedown]

A CHALLENGE TO THE LOSTCAST NATION

After the last Locke-centric episode we made it to over 300 posts in addition to the great speculation it created I think we made Cihan as happy as any in the world could (except a half-black half-korean love child)

Lets break the record with this one. 400 I have thrown down the gauntlet.

[Mike in the Box]

@ Jackedup...

Don't we have to wait for the LOSTcasts guys to open the post for the episode first? if not, how do we monitor the amount of postings?

[JackedupLockedown]

@ Mike in the box

Of course we do, but failing to plan is planning to fail. Right?

I am anticipating an outstanding episode. So much so I've done no work today in my first day back. I'm sure that will make all of my superiors very happy. The next two episodes should both be very memorable. First getting to find out what Locke has been up to and then getting some Ben Linus history.

WARNING POTENTIAL SPOILER FOR TONIGHTS EPISODE

I think it seems pretty to safe to assume if you watch the next time on Lost previews that Locke will be asking Sawyer to kill Anthony Cooper tonight. Here is my question for y'all. Why?

Is it...

A) A test for Sawyer that will determine his fate on the Island. (Like when the Smoke monster confronted Eko)

B) Because Locke can't kill him or the Island will turn on him

C) Because Locke can't kill him because he does not have it in him to Kill Anthony despite the awful things he has done to John

D) None of the above

END OF SPOILER SECTION

[JackedupLockedown]

BIG SPOILER FOR TONIGHTS EPISODE

Someone is gonna die!!!

Just got an e-mail from someone who has seen an advance of tonights episode and was told there will be a death tonight. I could not bear to ask anymore details.

END OF SPOILER

Only 8 more hours peeps

[Mike in the Box]

I just read some spoilers for this ep and it looks like a good one. can't wait!