Get Ready: LOSTCasts 61 - Confirmed Dead

Somebody pinch me... another episode? What did we do with our lives for the last half of 2007? We'll be back with a new podcast this weekend for season 4, episode 2 of LOST, Confirmed Dead. Have thoughts? Post them in the comments here or send us an email. Our automated voicemail is on the fritz, so we're trying to get that straightened out.

Comments

[Chris in Fort Worth]

First!

The remains of the polar bear and the dharma collar in the Tunisia scene have me convinced many core plot mysteries will be explained by time travel.

Who does Ben have on the boat?

Where are the Others that went to the 'Temple' last season?

Peace.

[Megan]

That was a great episode. I"m gonna have to watch it again - but I'm pretty sure there were pictures of a teenage Eko in that woman's house where Milo went to get rid of the ghost...

And for some reason, which i'd really like to know, Naomi thought there might be survivors on the island, but Abbadon was sure there wasn't. But why did Naomi even think that was a possibility?

So many questions....

[Dave]

Not a polar bear fossil, just bones. Does not necessarily mean time travel.

[Chris in Fort Worth]

@ dave

obviously I have no real clue, but I'm sticking with time travel...shoot me down when it's clear that's not the case. until then...

peace.

[Mark B]

My DVR cut out just after Ben told Locke all about the woman when he was going to shoot her.

What happened next ?

[barrettrouton]

wow so we got some new information on the real world really interesting. Guess we know the Oceanic attorney's real identitiy now and wow great episode milo is a ghostbuster, daniel a physiscist (just like michael faraday sort of he pretty much discoverd electromagnetism), that other chick is a archeologist or something and the pilot is well a pilot. I reall thought Jack was bluffing it reminded me of the scene were he was surronded by the others with guns kinda makes it seem like the losties are the others to the "freighties". Wow sayid saved the day. Cant wait for this podcast.

[Mark B]

Well what I saw that was a superb episode. Loads of stuff to digest.

1. Polar Bear bones with Dharma collar
2. Ben off island in photo
3. Who are these new people ?
4. The rescuers have been on the island less than a day and it'a all gone pear shaped.
5. Abbaddon insisting everyone was dead. Suggesting Naomi should kill them ?
6. Why were the freightees so upset when the wreckage was found ?
7. What kind of middle name is "staples" ? Is that what Ben said Charlottes middle name was ?
8. Miles Straume -- ghostbuster !?!
10. Why are they looking for Ben ?

[Radzinsky]

Ummmm.... Wow. I am totally lost.

[Mark B]

Something else I found funny was that the freightees had a code for someone has a gun to my head and in Man from Tallahasse Ben joked with John about having a code that meant someone has my daughter in the closet with a gun to her head.

[Radzinsky]

Major contribution from my buddy... let's call him... Mr. Friendly. Mr. Friendly realized that Charlotte Staples Lewis has the same initials as C.S. Lewis, of Narnia fame.

In fact, C.S. Lewis stands for Clive Staples Lewis. More to come as I read his Wikipedia entry.

[Elisabeth]

I noticed the C.S. Lewis reference too. Interesting...

A great episode!

[Rob W]

Why are they after Ben? Either:
1. They know Ben was responsibile for killing all the Dharma people, and they're going to get him; or
2. When he was off the island in that photo, maybe he done some BAAAAAAAAAAAAD stuff.

Miles is evil. Charlotte wants to see the Polar Bear.

And even if they get the helicopter going, how're they gonna make through the storm? They can't see it (snow globe theory), but it's there.

Good episode, but a bit of a slide from the last.

[Radzinsky]

I have an entirely separate question that goes to the identity of the people on the freighter and who is behind them.

HOW THE HELL DID NAOMI GET THE PICTURE OF PENNY & DESMOND BEFORE SHE PARACHUTED IN?

This is, I think, the missing piece of the puzzle in terms of who these people are and how they found (or perhaps rediscovered) the Island. I have an idea, but I'd like to hear from everybody first.

[AdamLogan]

At the very beginning of the episode as they are scouring the ocean floor, one of the voices says something along the lines of "we followed a compass bearing of 1 3 7 just like our guy's map said"...when ben let michael go I believe he told him to follow a compass bearing of 1 3 7. Is "our guy" Michael??? Does that mean he returned to civilization?

[Tahir]

Freaking great episode - more questions than answers.

Most interesting to me was Charlotte and the polar bear
bones in the desert - and the dharma logo.

It was a WTF episode.All I kept saying whilst I was watching it was "wtf".

[Brian Holmes]

AdamLogan, Ben gave Michael a compass bearing of 3 2 5. Nice catch with the one in this episode, though.

[Eric from AwesomeStart]

This ghost hunter thing really bothers me. If there's ghosts on the show, all scientific inquiry goes out the window. I think this makes us harder to try to figure out what's going on. Anyone anywhere could just be a ghosts. Ghosts could be the cause of the whispers. The survivors could all be goddamn ghosts. Argh.

[ninety-nine]

I'm really liking the Daniel Faraday character. The part with the box of gas masks was pretty funny.

Also, what accent did Charlotte have?

[Hellcharger777]

It was the teenage echo. I am wondering if the Ghost was him or femmi. They sort of focused in on it. It could be an E.E. The woman did not talk with a nigerian accent. kates smitten with jack again so she did not catch the hint. it was great I have never seen so many people so happy to see a huey helicopter. I smiled with the color and polar bear. The masks and biohazard stuff is interesting. Another purge? Ben reminds me of when an animal is backed into a corner. He is trying everything he can to not be found and for no one else to be found either. I think the guy on the inside is walt or michael. I don't know why but maybe some things happened b/w them we don't know about yet. If I did not know harold was returning to the show I would not be as strong about this answer. I know how hurley is one of the six.
Miles is such a money grubber that hurley offers him millions to take him over other losties. That is my guess. Tonight the pilot mentioned that he could not take naomi's body because of the fact it would be too heavy and he would do it on the next run. I am thinking it will be a situation where hurley is on and the whole weight thing comes into play, but the pilot risks it for some reason. Money or something else. So I am thinking the next 3 of the six are sun, aaron and claire. if not sun then, desmond or sayid. Or the other 3 could be frogurt guy, steve/scott, and Vincent.

[riverfr0zen]

anyone notice pink panther like theme that starts at 28:30? I.e the scene after locke tells indiannes jones that they "don't want to get off the island" ?

[Sam from Oakland]

wow, I thought that this was going to be a downer/set up episode, but I was very surprised by how awesome it was!!
three questions:
1. Why would Naomi have a Desmond/Penny picture if they were looking for Ben?
2. Why did Naomi ask, "What if we find survivors of flight 815?" when it was shown that they were all dead?
3. WHO IS THAT BLACK GUY AND WHO DOES HE WORK FOR?!?!?!?!

[Mike in the Box]

Ok so there were a lot of questions raised by this episode, but the ones I am focused on are 1) how does a Dharma polar bear end up in northern africa? 2) What is the real story behind two Oceanic planes? 3) What does Ben mean when he says that he has a man on the freighter?

As for 1 and 2, I am open to theories. But I am thinking about Ben's statement: first, if Ben does in fact have someone on the freighter, then EVERYTHING that has happened regarding the Looking Glass, the radio tower, etc. was orchestrated by Ben. He tells everyone that the people on the freighter are bad and will kill them in a reverse psychology attempt to get them to do what he really wants: allow the freighter to come. As for the man he has on the freighter: I am going to go out on a limb and say that it is Michael (or walt). I don't know how, but perhaps, M & W were picked up by the freighter after leaving the island, and somehow they are relaying info to Ben (either by walt communicating with jacob or through a listening device such as a radio or bug.)

[Christine - San Diego]

No one has mentioned the flash of a face (person0 in the window (of the plane wreckage) behind Sayid and Juliette when they were on the beach waiting to see the boat. It was just for a flash of a second. Perhaps a mistake in editing? But not likely with Lost...

[Mike in the Box]

@ Christine - S.D.

What flash? Do you have a link to a screen capture so we can check this out? I am intrigued.

[Eva]

And why was the pilot of the plane not Greg Grunberg? They used a different guy's photo.

[Sphere]

Best Line of the episode:

Locke: "Ben, WHAT IS the Monster? What Monster? The Smoke Monster, for heaven's sake!"

lol...

[Spalz]

What a great episode!
Alright, I have a few questions, and it looks like everything is starting to become connected.
(1) Lockes dad stole his kidney and was a horrible guy. He ended up at the island and was killed. He stole Locke's kidney, which locke hated him for. If he had not stolen that kidney, Locke would have been dead from being shot by Ben. Things worked out.
(2) The chick on the helicopter asked for a vest, and was freaking out about the vest prior to jumping, and found one. How did she know that Ben would shoot her and that she'd need a vest, so much so to worry about it.
(3) The polar bear in the middle of the desert is the second one from the hydra station. We know that the first one was killed by the Losties a while ago, and now we found the second one. Time travel? Thats the only way of explaining it.
(4) Mental case, ghost buster, anthropolist, pilot (drunk). What do they have in common are what are they doing on the island together.

[Sphere]

I believe Naomi had a Picture of Desmond because Kevin warned Abbandon of the new kid on the Island. "There is this guy Desmond with a boat here, WTF?, do you know something about him, over?"

I mean, I'm just thinking out loud here, Abbandon tell Naomi that there are no survivors to flight 815, but does not mean he himself believes that, nor that Naomi - who must be commanding a lot of money for that - also agrees with that.

IF Abbandon is Dharma, he knows about the Dharma stations, the tv cameras with Desmond, etc. Or maybe Kevin, in a last desperate transmission, told him he was bailing out.

The connection of Desmond and Penny is a bonus for Abbandon, maybe he thinks Desmond is more valuable to Widmore, a very rich man/or a fierce Dharma rival.

Abbandon carefully chosen his team, because his objective is not only to kill Ben, but also to evaluate and access the state of the Dharma Initiative on the Island. Each one of them can help telling the story of what happenend after "the purge". Including the Ghostbuster guy, he could have a very nice chat with the Dharma guys at the open grave! lol Who better to give a detailed report about the purge than this guy? The same goes for the Polar Bear, and for the Plane.

Since they were all connected to the plane somehow, they were interested in going there.

What do they know about the others? They must know about the Monster-Fence, so they probably know how to disarm it. Not a very spot for Locke and the others to feel safe, Ben must have known that. Abbandon must have warned the freighties about all things Dharma.

I expect Ben to convince everybody to go to the temple next.

[Spalz]

Few more things...
(5) They had gas masks, did they know abou the Purge and Ben. Are they after Ben since they know he did the purge?
(6) Does anyone think that picture of ben looks very 1970s?
http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/R6vf38BE6gI/AAAAAAAATZk/CKjtHhkutUs/s1600-h/ben.jpg

That would support the ability to time travel, the polar bear did it, perhaps ben can too....

[Sphere]

I don't think they are after Ben for revenge at all. I don't think they want to kill him, not before they can "extract" something from him. Maybe they want Ben to take the Ghostbuster guy to Jacob?

They know Ben had the power to talk to Jacob. They know the natives got Ben to their side, and only the natives could have carried out "the Purge".

Ben is important for what he knows, and for his abilities to "talk to the Island".

Maybe killing Ben they believe the Ghostbuster guy can assume its position vis-vis-Jacob/Island? Does this means that Jacob is dead then?

Above all, Abbandon seems to want to control the Island first, and Ben-Jacob-natives are a big part of the problem. Either they become part of the solutions or they'll be eliminated.

I wonder what will happen when Abbandon/Freighties get to know about Locke's newfound powers. He already talked out in the open to Charlotte about "talking to Walt" (a ghost/non entity on the Island at least, etc.).

I mean, imagine that, they kill Ben, only to discover that Jacob now only reports to Locke, and that the natives will elect Lock to perform the Purge version 2.0.

Ben will love that, of course. He won't have to shoot Locke anymore, he will want to convince everybody (including the freighties) that Locke is the new Ben!

[Bored at Work]

I think the pick is from the 70's since that was the last time Dharma was able to get on the island (pre-Purge) in order to have a pick of Ben for their files.

[Sphere]

(Man, my spelling is so bad... sorry about all the mistakes. I'm typing as I'm thinking about it in the dark...)

[Sphere]

There is no way that picture is from the 70's. The monitor looks like the IBM's of the early eighties at most!

Like this one from 1981:
http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/pc/h/ps2.jpg

In the 70's it was not common to have computers at every other public place, or something like that. Everybody used electric machines, mostly IBMs Selectric, etc.

Computer were mostly just terminals, you'd see just the monitor, no box below it.

Not the case in the 83-85, for instance.

Unless Ben is at NASA in the 70's, I don't think that picture is from, say, 1977. NO WAY!

[Sphere]

Looking again at the picture you just see the monitor...well, what do I know really? Still, the monitor looks too much "squarish" to me...Computers were more rounded in the 70's...

[Tahir]

Ok - just a guess about the new team and their roles on the island.

Miles, Ghostbuster,psychic - Study Jacob,The whispers,The Visions

Charlotte, Anthropologist - The 4 toed statue.The islands history.

Daniel, Physicist - Study the unique properties of the island,magnetism.

Lapidus - Pilot

[Staley]

Did anyone else get the impression that Milo is related to Marvin Candle? Did you see the Marvin Candle eyebrow shot when he looks in his rear view mirror? I'm just saying...

As for the Eko/Yemmie picture, I don't think that the timelines would sync up properly.

That picture of Ben could be from whenever given his horrible taste in clothing. Have you seen the man's giant-legged highwater pants he wears in every episode? What's that about?

I'm hoping that polar bear in Northern Africa means space/time travel. That's got to be how Locke's Pop turned up.

I'm guessing the Ben's man on the freighter is Daniel, but it would be sweet if it were Charlotte the Sociologist.

Excellent flashback for not just the freighties, but the outside world post-815 disappearance.

That makes for two more times that Ben has had the shit kicked out of him this season.

Best line; whatever Sawyer said about following "Taller Ghost Walt".

Given the opening couple of shots, could you tell that this episode was written by the dude behind Cloverfield?

[riverfr0zen]

Guys, guys. Miles the 'ghostbuster' was duped into the mission. He's not really connected to the paranormal world in any way. He's one of those flakey people you usually hear on coast to coast who 'believe' they are somehow 'connected to the paranormal'.

The powers that instigated this mission basically setup this spookhouse to test him out. I think it's obvious, since the house had these images of Yemi/Eko, etc. which they probably just use as stock decorations.

Why the hell would they put him on this mission? Well, for starters, he's clearly not *that* convinced himself about the paranormal. I mean, he takes the loot from the house. However, if you want to deal (from the mission instigator's point of view) with psychos like Ben, who believe there is a 'ghost called jacob on the island', it may behoove your mission to hire this sort of paranormal type to either 'relate' to Ben, or perhaps explain his delusions.

Who knows. Maybe Miles himself is actually a gifted psychologist with 'delusions' of being affined to the paranormal.

[riverfr0zen]

Also, google:

http://www.google.com/search?q=faraday+cage+paranormal

;)

[Cameron]

I was a bit concerned about the ghost/paranormal angle being a bizarre tangent, but then I remembered that in the very first DHARMA Orientation film, the study of parapsychology was specifically included in the list of research areas that the DeGroots/DHARMA were supposed to be studying. It is good to see that they are not just wandering off the page with the story.

That said: what was up with Daniel's clothes? Who wears a dreadful string tie and a vest and jumper wrapped round their waist when they are out on a rescue mission?? Just awful. And that photo of Ben! OMG - clearly they were after him for some sort of fashion crime and want to extradite him back to the US to face justice!

Damn Naomi is hot, even when she is meant to be dead. As far as I am concerned, she is the hottest chick ever to have appeared on the show.

[mclegend]

The part that fascinated me the most in the episode was the reaction of both Ben & Locke when Hurley let it slip that he had seen Jacob's Cabin. Hurley may play a much bigger part in the story this season rather than just comic relief!!!

[jane]

@ riverfr0zen -
I thought Miles shoved the loot back into the wall. He didn't take it, and he even gave the woman some of her money back?

[jane]

Looks like the strike is finally over!

Exclusive: "WGA Strike Over" Says Eisner
9:26 ST, February 7, 2008 | Source: CNBC.com | Relevance: 36.743%
Michael Eisner, the former CEO of Disney and host of CNBC's "Conversations with Michael Eisner" revealed on Fast Money that the writers strike is effectively over and that a deal should be announced this week-end.

[MrHurley'sFoodStash]

Okay, my take is that this is a new DHARMA Initiative special unit designed specifically to find and get back onto the Island (3 of the 4 new people meet the various disciplines of Dharma - meteorology, psychology, parapsychology*, zoology*, electromagnetism*), it's likely other specialist on the freighter meet the others. They were chosen AGAINST Naomi's advice who's role is a little more complicated.

They know Ben conducted the Purge, he then blocked all communication from the Island and it was Lost until The Swan made is visible again for a few moments. It's likely they had a rough location but couldn't pinpoint it, now they have a small team, want Ben and knew about his others.

The plan in the end is to, I guess retake the Island, remove the others and cover up the Losties (already in process with the finding of the flight at the ocean floor), somehow (maybe) 6 get off the island and they all have to sign/agree a deal to keep quiet. Dharma lives on with it's research, the others are no more and only a handful survive and are constantly monitored by Dharma (the guy dealing with Naomi and Hurley recently).

Obviously it's not that simple though.

[MrHurley'sFoodStash]

@ jane

Miles put the money in his pocket and put the Heroin back in the wall in the brown bag, he gave her $100 back because he just got a nice stash and probably felt a little guilty. The reason he went was for the money, it's what he asked for as soon as he sat down in the room.

[robc]

I've seen every episode at least 3 times, and I am more confused than ever. Part of me thinks that either the hatch implosion or some event yet to be seen had a ripple effect in time altering both the future and the past. I'm also hoping that Adam and Eve from Season 1 are either Jack and Kate or Ben and his chica.

[jane]

thanks Mr. Hurley - missed that. :-)

[xobster]

So one thing I keep coming back to...someone else must be able to see the island who is still connected to the Dharma Initiative. Who was responsible for the Dharma food drop in Season 2? We keep focusing on the blast doors when Locke was in that room, but those doors came down because the food drop was coming. Who did the food drop? Does whoever did it, think that there are still Dharma people on the island? Is Ben still communicating with someone in Dharma, convincing them the people on the island are all still ok?

[Rok]

The thing I can't quite reconcile through all of this: remember, it was BEN who wanted Locke to stop hitting the button in the Swan Station. He told Locke that he didn't enter the numbers, and still nothing happened (yet, as we all know, that was utter hogwash, and Ben et al. had a clear view of what everyone was ding on the island at all times, via the Pearl station from Paulo and Nikki's one episode).

So why did Ben lie to get the Swan to go haywire. Ben is showing himself to be the true all-knower on the island, and therefore must've known there would be only one of two outcomes from the Swan Station not getting the code in time: a.) the entire planet implodes in that magnetic singularity or b.) the failsafe is triggered by someone and therefore releasing the magnetic force once and for all, but making the island visible to the outside world.

[SkiMole]

As for Ben's man on the freighter, I think it could be related to find815.com. Sam had mentioned that he was on the freighter and had found the island in his video diary. Ben could have sent him the encoded picture through his email and been in contact with him. I believe it's either Sam or Michael/Walt as a condition of their release.

[Rok]

P.S. @mclegend, I agree. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me that the "Oceanic 6" end up being the six people on the island who could see/communicate with Jacob, and it's Jacob that allows them off the island. If that theory holds true, then we have yet to see an interaction of Jacob with Jack (that oughta be fun, if Jacob is in the form of Christian) and Kate. Then Locke, Hurley and Ben, leaving only one other (again, assuming my theory holds any water).

[Atomic Ned]

Was it a coincidence that Daniel told Miles not to shoot Jack and Kate because they were "good guys"? Does this have anything to do with the "good list"?

[riverfr0zen]

@jane: i wasn't talking about the drugs, i was talking about the money. i think he got way more money from that wall than he charged the woman - so it was a sensible choice to 'make appearances' and 'return half' to the woman below.

i think him leaving those drugs was very clever writing though - it informs us of his character, i.e. he's not a druggie.

[oddjob]

I think Naomi's boss is Ben's spy and he's on the boat.
Why did he ask Hurley if they are still alive?

When's Walt and Michael coming back?

[Courtney]

A total WTF episode. I loved it. I don't know what to make of it, but one thing I've noticed missing from the discussion here is Hurley and the shack. Given Locke's suprise when Hurley said he thought the cabin was "back that way" (or something close to that), it's obvious that it wasn't Locke in Jacob's cabin in last week's episode. And, that Locke didn't know that Hurley had seen Jacob. Ben also looked shocked when Hurley spoke up. I don't think Locke or Ben fell for Hurley's cover-up that he was talking about the cabin of the plane. This Hurley-Jacob link could maybe tie into the similarity in Ben's and Hurley's comments to Jack about "never say never" when it comes to returning to the island. (Ben says this to Jack in one of the mobisodes, and Hurley said it to him in the flash forward in last week's episode.)
Thoughts???

[Sphere]

Why Abbandon chose these 4? All of them have serious character flows, and look like overly concerned wiht money and/or fame/glory.

Charlotte: she bribes a guy to be able to get into the polar bear in Tunis;

Miles, the ghostbuster: only cares about the money, his ability to interact with ghosts are just used as means to get it.

Daniel: failed physicist, wanted some academic job, but never got tenure. Probably was told about the groundbraking property of the Island, and wants to get his career a new twist;

Lapidus: Knows everything about the Oceanic, the first to get to know about the staging: the airplane found underwater was not the 815, he called Oceanic, they want to know more about him, that about what he wants to say (as if they already knew). Is he looking for the real plane? Does he believe or know any survivors?

[Guy from NJ]

A few more observations:

1) Sawyer is using nicknames again

2) Did we all forget about Penny's Dad. He could be running a parallel search mission for Desmond and the Island. It appears that it is very valuable. I think that Abbandon works for Widmore.

3) Line of the night: When Faraday takes the Sat Phone from Kate, and Minkavich says: "Am I on Speakerphone?"

4) What's with Faraday's outfit? He looks very "Around the World in 80 Days"

[Guy from NJ]

A few more observations:

1) Sawyer is using nicknames again

2) Did we all forget about Penny's Dad. He could be running a parallel search mission for Desmond and the Island. It appears that it is very valuable. I think that Abbandon works for Widmore.

3) Line of the night: When Faraday takes the Sat Phone from Kate, and Minkavich says: "Am I on Speakerphone?"

4) What's with Faraday's outfit? He looks very "Around the World in 80 Days"

[sean]

When is the next Official Lost podcast with Damon and Carlton? Maybe they're not doing them because of the strike?

[Chris In Oly]

It ties into the theory I like:

The Others are a group of people who have washed/crashed on the island over time. Magnus Hanso (from the blast door) also crashed on the island and used his fortune to start a secret society to keep the island Others supplied, while manipulating the outside world.

Alvar Hanso, guilty over his arms supplying or with the information extorted out of him, makes a break from the secret society. He sets up Dharma to investigate the island to 'save the world' island.

Dharma uses biological agents on the others, causing the inability to have children. We note the latest team to oppose the Others also has biohazard suits.

Ben and the Others society infiltrates Dharma and kill the Dharma people on the island. He keeps his agents in Dharma under task to keep the food drops coming - probably by claiming some Dharma people are still alive in the Swan/Button Hatch. We have not seen a food drop since, so they may no longer be able to keep up the charade.

Dharma became financially unstable after loosing the island and the new backers, represented by Abaddon, are much more ruthless.

I think Widmore is trying to get in on the action, since they think there is something valuable on the island. That is why Widmore keeps races around the world (boat with Desmond and balloon with Gale) to drop people into the island.

Why misfits and geeks - like Desmond, our Losties, and Farady type people? Because the psuedo sentience of the island (Jacob and Smokey) won't instantly react violently to them. With a full military team, maybe smokey just takes them out. Ana Lucia did not last too long as a militant; the island seemed to react in kind to her.

So the island reacts well to patsies, people who don't know they are being used. And Abaddon and Widmore ar ehoping the patsies will pay off. Looks like Jack will help the frieghties so the plan may be paying off already. The problem is that patsies eventually get upset and fight back - as we see in the future.

[Rob]

Why is Dan so upset during the opening scene? He's crying and he's not even in the woods yet. Has anyone come up with a good estimate for when the flashback(s) are taking place?

[Staley]

We were laughing at Faraday the whole time because of his LA hippster outfit.

I'm thinking that Abaddon knew about the Island, but didn't know about the Losties because in his reality, they all did die. I'm looking at this like the Losties crashed on the Island in one reality and landed in a trench in the other. It seems more and more like the Island is an axis that connects our reality to another, like a bathroom connecting to bedrooms in a house. Of course this brings up questions regarding the validity of the pilot's corpse in the trench plane.

As for the ghost buster stuff, it seems like science is willing to recognize anything so long as it can prove and quantify its existence. We can explain the existence of ghosts, science just hasn't figured out how to yet.

[Mr Spoiler]

Sayid has been confimed as one of the Oceanic 6. Next week's epsiode centers around him in the "Economist".

Episode 4.03: The Economist (Sayid-centric)
Airdate: February 14, 2008

02/06 - In the Island's big game of capture the flag, Kate gets tagged out by the other team and sent to "jail." Lucky for her, she's in good with the jailer... Source: Kristin on E!Online
02/03 - Naveen Andrews reveals: By the time you get to Episode 3, the [group's] split is kind of clearly defined. Source: TV Guide Online
01/28 - Locke's hostage may be the key to getting off the island, so Sayid and Kate go in search of their fellow castaway in an attempt to negotiate a peaceful deal. Guest starring are Ken Leung as Miles, Jeremy Davies as Daniel Faraday, Rebecca Mader as Charlotte, Jeff Fahey as Frank Lapidus, Mira Furlan as Danielle Rousseau, Marsha Thomason as Naomi, Armando Pucci as Italian man and Thekla Reuten as Elsa. Source: ABC
01/02 - [Episode 3] features a great ending and shooting and episode. Source: Lost Spoilers
10/29 - Carlos, a journalist, reveals: The 1st page of what I read was the production sheet, call sheet or something named like that - I can't remember precisely the right term. In this page, you can find the episode's number and name - in this case, #403 - The Economist, but of course it can be a provisory title. [...] That's where I also got Ken Leugn's character name (Miles) and the information confirming that Jeremy Davies will play Faraday, and Rebecca Mader, Charlotte. That's where I also got the name Elsa, Sayid's girlfriend in his flashforward... The next pages were scripts for episode's scenes. And that's the most important information I could find there: "The Economist" will have Sayid as a main character, and will show his after-island life. We'll be in Germany, and his girlfriend is called Elsa. [...] She seemed very intrigued about Sayid's kinda secret job. He refuses to talk about it, even to her... On the island, there will be a scene in which some losties will go to "Othersville" and will notice some noises. Kate (not Juliet!) will realize that the noise is coming from a house - pointed in the script as Juliet's house, and she'll go and check it. Then, she notices that the sound is coming from the closet; and finally finds Hurley stuck inside. Locke and Sayid are disagreeing about the best way to discover more about the "new visitors": while Sayid wants to go to the ship with Charlotte and appears that she'll get a boat to get back to their HQ, Locke prefers to trust in Ben, who said that he's got a spy on the boat. [...] Freckles will want to go to somewhere - not mentioned on the excerpt I read - but Sawyer, even not wanting her to go, won't stop her; but will also show her his disappointment... Source: Lost Spoilers
09/26 - It appears that episode 2 or 3 is going to be Sayid centric: I was in downtown Honolulu today (Saturday 9/22) and they were filming Lost. It was suppose to be in Germany. They had snow (shaved ice) all over the road. Some of the security said it was a Jack scene. It was not, it was Sayid. There was no dialog I could hear, just Naveen crossing the street several times. Source

[Chris In Oly]

Mr Spoiler,

Give warning before posting. Place a line saying spoliers so people who don't want the episode ruined don't see.

Posting like you did is jerky. Stick to sites where people want to ruin next weeks show.

[Radzinsky]

@ Mr Spoiler

I'll go a bit further than Chris here and say that posts that blatantly review aspects of future episodes just aren't welcome on this board. At the very least, you MUST put a substantial spoiler warning on such posts.

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

I'm liking the idea that Michael is Ben's man on the freighter. It makes sense to me. Ben would have sent his coordinates straight to the freighter since that boat was not meant to go long distances. I'm sure Michael figured better off the island than on.

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

I'm liking the idea that Michael is Ben's man on the freighter. It makes sense to me. Ben would have sent his coordinates straight to the freighter since that boat was not meant to go long distances. I'm sure Michael figured better off the island than on.

[Courtney]

@ Rob
I believe that the woman in Dan's flashback is asking him why he's so upset, assuming that it has to do with what he's watching on TV. The TV is showing info about the crash of Oceanic 815. I don't remember if the show/story was about the crash itself or if it was about finding the plane on the bottom of the ocean and that there are no survivors, though I think it's the second of those. That would put Dan's flashback around the same time as the pilot's. As for the other 2, no clue.

[Radzinsky]

LostCASTers,

Some theory first, and then some questions raised by the episode. First, I want to give props to MrHurley'sFoodStash, xobster, Guy from NJ and Chris in Oly for all having some of the same ideas. I'll be repeating a bit of what you guys said. Here goes...

CHARLES WIDMORE'S DHARMA REVENGE:

(1) The people on the freigher are Dharma coming back to reclaim the Island.
(2) Dharma was funded by the Hanso Foundation.
(3) Widmore was always connected to the Hanso Foundation (for instance, they share office space in NYC and Alvar Hanso was on the Widmore corporate board).
(4) Charles Widmore has an Island-themed mural in his office, featuring a polar bear, an upside-down Buddha and the word "Namaste."
(5) Charles Widmore comes closest to fitting the "bad guy" description of anyone else on the show, besides perhaps Abbadon.
(6) Naomi has a picture of Penny and Desmond when she lands.
(7) We know that Naomi was not on "Penny's boat"
(8) Naomi could very likely have gotten the picture from Charles Widmore, through Penny.
(9) Daniel Faraday lands with a gas mask and biohazard materials just like those that Ben used to "purge" Dharma. These new freighter folks are getting set to "repurge" the Island, and this time, Ben dies.
(10) Miles Straume and Frank Lapidus already know of "natives" on the Island, besides the 815 survivors. That's one of the terms that Dharma used to describe the Others (they also called them Hostiles).
(11) The strike force includes a paranormal, an archeologist and a physicist who specializes in electromagneticism, all things that Dharma studied.

QUESTIONS REMAINING ON THIS THEORY:

(1) Why wait until now to "invade" the Island?
(2) Do Widmore and Dharma know where the Island is? Can they go back any time?
(3) Did it take an event to allow Dharma to be able to return to the Island?
(4) Was it Desmond turning the key in the Swan Hatch? Was it the sky turning purple?
(5) Was it the two Spanish/Portuguese men in the frigid listening post? Weren't they Penny's guys?
(6) Was it Charlie turning off the jamming signal in the Looking Glass hatch?
(7) What does it mean that Dharma was always airlifting supplies into the Island (as we saw in Season 1)? Have they always known where it was?
(8) If the picture of Penny & Desmond belonged to Penny, how did Charles Widmore get a copy? Are Charles and Penny Widmore at odds?
(9) How would Naomi possibly know that she would encounter Desmond on the Island, how did she know to bring the picture?

[Courtney]

So I lied... The girl that's now on the island was reading a paper about the crash of 815 and her friend asks how many different languages she's going to have to read that in before she believes it (This happend just before the awesome Dharma polar bear made its appearance). So, that would put her flashback around the same time as Dan and the pilots. Which leads me now to question, was there anything about 815 in Mile's flashback or is he the odd man out?

[Radzinsky]

One other note on the above theory, which I find very interesting.

We know that Charles Widmore sponsored the round-the-world race that crashed Desmond's sailboat on the Island. But, what if I told you that it wasn't the only round-the-world trip that he sponsored?

Look closely at the hot air balloon that crashed previously on the Island, piloted by none other than Henry Gale, the man whose identity was adopted by Ben when he first met the Losties. On the side of the basket for the balloon, there is an unmistakeable "Widmore Labs" logo. Do we still think it's a coincidence that Henry Gale's Widmore balloon crashed on the Island? Could he have been looking for it intentionally? Could Henry Gale have been acting on the same orders that this new strike team may also be acting on? Might Charles Widmore have sponsored both expeditions as ways for Dharma to retake the Island? Are we sure that Henry Gale died of a "broken neck," as Ben explained? Could Ben have killed him, the same way he intended to kill Charlotte Lewis in last night's episode? Something for us to chew on...

[Rob]

The funniest part of the whole episode is when Miles sits down at grandma's table, opens his little black case, and starts assembling a modified handheld vacuum, just like a sniper on a rooftop assembling his rifle. Genius!

Best line: Sawyer to Ben: "You're wastin' your time, Yoda."

"Yoda," that's perfect for Ben. (Almost as good as "a cross between Pee Wee Herman and Hannibal Lechter.")

Can't wait for the podcast. Keep up the good work, guys!

[Matma]

Who's "Ben's Man" on the boat? Could it be Mr. Never-going-to-die Mikhail.

[Tahir]

Just rewatched ep 2.

Poor Ben, he must have bruises on his bruises.I'm feelinf sorry for the dude.

Best line: Lapidus.."I saw a cow".(Don't know why but it cracked me up.)

I'm loving Lost at this moment because I have absolutely NO idea where it's going.And thanks thread contributors for putting big arse spoilers warnings in your posts.It's appreciated.

The writers strike - anyone in the US, is it confirmed its actually over ???

[Cihan]

Polar bear. Hmm, I'm thinking not time travel, but rather, teleportation...?

Ben's man, I think Michael would be a good twist, but am having a hard time figuring out how that would work.

Great episode, the effects of cutting a season in half is showing already.

[LostAddict]

@Courtney:

Miles is not odd man out - he was listening to the radio in his car and they were talking about finding the plane.

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

The writer's strike is NOT over. Rumors otherwise are exagerrated. They have to take the deal to the writers and they need to vote on it. They are meeting tomorrow and they may or may not agree to the terms. If they do, then the strike could be over on Sunday. However, it is not over yet and I think the press is being a bit optimistic. And I don't get why people are listening to Michael Eisner. He is not apart of Disney anymore.

[Mike in the Box]

@ Cihan:

I am liking the teleportation idea. it is better than time travel. I am thinking that Michael is Ben's man on the boat but is not aware of it. His real "man" is Walt, communicating to Jacob. Michael just thinks they are on the sea heading home.

Re: the questions post by Radzinsky

Most of the problems I have with Ben being the mark for the new group is that he (in one way or another) allowed them to come onto the island. He used reverse psychology to get Locke to stop pushing the button, he tried to convince everyone that the freighter people were bad, so the Losties did everything they could to help get them to the island.

So, if he actually wanted them to come, why didn't he just allow them to come? If he really didn't want them to come, why go through all the manipulating and games to get them to come? None of it makes sense.

[David]

Hmm, looking at the "they make a deal with the new guys to get off the island" ideas being thrown about (i.e. silence of what really happened), I'm not sure if that's quite true, as in the previous episode, the guy who claimed to be oceanic's lawyer wanted to know where the others were. Implying that it wasn't his team that freed the oceanic 6.

Fantastic episode though, looking forward to the podcast.

[alan]

the frightees are from the hanso corp me thinks

weird about the plane being found,

and remember season1 when boone and locke found dthe priests plane and boone radioed "were the survivors of oceanic815" and he got back "no, were the survivors of oceanic815" i really want to figure that out!

[Mike in the Box]

@ Alan

That scene was addressed in the episode that told the tail section's story. It was Bernard on the other radio saying that they were the survivors.

[alan]

@ Mike in the Box

thanks,didnt remember that!

[Radzinsky]

@ Mike in the Box

There are a few explanations for Ben's behavior here. First, he really didn't want Charlie to disrupt the jamming signal coming from the Looking Glass station. Once that went down, the freighter folks had a clear path to the Island. Seeing no other option, Ben approached Jack, hat in hand, and told him that the freighter folks were the bad guys. I hear your point about reverse psychology, but let's remember that most things Ben has done limit communication on and off the Island (including not allowing Juliet to leave).

Another connection that you're drawing is that "not pushing the button" brought the freighter-Dharma-redux folks to the Island. While I think that's a possible scenario, it's not guaranteed. Consider the fact that the Dharma food drop happened well before the sky turned purple, so presumably it wasn't the turning of the key that revealed the location of the Island. And, we should acknowledge that Ben might simply not now about the Swan hatch and what it involves.

[Chris]

Two thoughts.

1. What if been was telling the truth about not knowing about the smoke monster? There was a 1950s space move called forbidden plant that involved a machine that could bring in to existence whatever the scientist who created it wanted. This is what allowed him to live on mars (or wherever he was). When some astronauts happened to find him and his daughter on the planet one of them formed a relationship with the daughter. the astronauts and there ship were then attacked repeatedly by a monster made of energy that would vanish as sudden as it arrived. At the end of the move you found out the scientist was creating the monster via the machine and never knew it. It was his subconscious thought and fear of loosing his daughter that made this monster appear.

This could explain Smokey. Ben said this "BOX" (assuming the island) could give you whatever you wanted. Well what if even creates things from your subconscious. Smokey could be a subconscious extension of Ben that he might not even be aware of.

2. The Ghost guy makes me think of Hurley. I got some of these facts from friends so don't hold them agents me if i am wrong. Hurley saw Dave in the institution. Libby was married to a guy named Dave that died driving her to the mental hospital. So what if they are the same Dave? Then Hurley sees Charlie's ghost in the future, plus the freaky shack and 2 inhabitants. It seems to me, even though he is unaware of it Hurley is just as the ghost guy from the ship.

[Locke's shoes]

Episode 4.07: Ji Yeon (Sun/Jin-centric)
March 13, 2008

Fans of the show will be happy to know that we're wrapping up filming on episode seven, which happens to be a Sun/Jin episode, called "Ji Yeon." Source: Daniel Dae Kim on his MySpace page
- A fan translated a Korean article, this is an extract: "When [Yunjin Kim] received her script, she got shocked to find out the title of her episode; 'Jiyeon', and it is also the name of Sun and Jin's baby. Yunjin is surprised because the name of Yunjin's character in her [new movie 'Seven Days'] is Jiyeon, too. Jiyeon is name of Korean females, and I think it's kind of common name but not that popular one."
- The street scene appears to be the exterior counterpart to the toy store scene they filmed the day before. We see Jin come out the door with, yes, a giant stuffed panda bear. He's helping his plushy new pal into a taxi cab when a guy speeding past on a blue moped knocks his cell phone out of his hand. As he stoops to pick it up, the taxi cab takes off with someone else inside. Jin runs after the cab, yelling angrily, and to no avail. Cursing, he smashes his phone to bits on the street. [...] Many [crew members] had to rush off to report to the day's second shoot: a scene with Sun, Yunjin Kim at a funeral. Source: Hawaii Blog

- The [Toys N Joys] store was only slightly rearranged, the Lost set crew covering up brand names and logos with random Korean art and signs. Details of what transpired behind the store's cluttered windows when cameras rolled are unsurprisingly slim, but I'm told it involved a big, plushy panda.

- Blog reader Alicia Chang and her coworker Shannon Fera did some scouting this morning, and it looks like filming is currently underway at Toys N Joys on Waialae Avenue. They're speculating that it's part of a flash-forward scene, and I have to agree. Somehow I don't think that a 'Charme Beaute Salon: Room 3 Upstairs' would be commonly found in South Korea...

- Kiwi stuntwoman Zoe Bell [...] said from Los Angeles yesterday that her next project was in Hawaii filming episodes of Lost, starting next week. [...] Bell described it as "a little acting role" that would involve some stunt work.

- Huston - 50s, male, Caucasian, weathered face, salt and pepper hair, a man who immediately commands great authority but someone you don't want to cross. He has a job to do and he doesn't allow anything to get in his way - even the death of his employees. Guest star. Doctor - Male, early 30s, Korean. Professional and accomplished, a calming presence in times of crisis. Working his regular shift, he gets more than he bargained for. Must be able to speak Korean. Shopkeeper - Male, Korean, any age. Pleasant, eager to please the customer and make a sale, cool under stress, able to deal with difficult customers and keep them happy. Must be able to speak Korean. Regina - Late-20s to early 30s, any ethnicity. Tough, formidable, someone who could take an order and execute it flawlessly but who is now a shell of her former self; nervous and paranoid.

[Chris In Oly]

Looking at the questions, guesses/responses:

(1) Why wait until now to "invade" the Island?
I think it has to do with Desmond turning the key. This indicated to Dharma all their people are gone, and allowed the island to pop up on the radar for at least a moment.

(2) Do Widmore and Dharma know where the Island is? Can they go back any time?
I would expect that Ben got rid of that information. If Widmore and Dharma could get on or off at will, they would be crawling over the island. I think the Other's submarine followed a beacon and the helicopter followed Niaomi's beacon. Niaomi just crashed like everyone else randomly. I seem to remember her claiming to be flying in the area, not not stating she was going to the island. Of course she is an operative and may be good at lieing.

(3) Did it take an event to allow Dharma to be able to return to the Island?
See 1 - I think so.

(4) Was it Desmond turning the key in the Swan Hatch? Was it the sky turning purple?
See 1 - I think so.

(5) Was it the two Spanish/Portuguese men in the frigid listening post? Weren't they Penny's guys?
I think they were part of Penny's guys. And while I don't think Penny is helping her Dad, her Dad may be using Penny.

(6) Was it Charlie turning off the jamming signal in the Looking Glass hatch?
That just allows the beacons to operate and not be jammed. The submarine beacon seemed to be at the looking glass so it was out of the radius of jamming...maybe?

(7) What does it mean that Dharma was always airlifting supplies into the Island (as we saw in Season 1)? Have they always known where it was?
I think you can always crash land on the island if you start in the right location. It seems Dharma knew a flight path that allowed high altitude drops. But any high tech/electronic plane/helicopter/boat fails with out a beacon. (Yeah, guessing at psuedo science hurts my brain, if the beacons work why don't helicopters...) But buying the first theorem, whoever was on the plane could have flown that flight path to crash the losties. I would like to know more about the pilot who knew they were off course...

(8) If the picture of Penny & Desmond belonged to Penny, how did Charles Widmore get a copy? Are Charles and Penny Widmore at odds?
See 5 above. At odds, but her Dad is probably better are manipulating.

(9) How would Naomi possibly know that she would encounter Desmond on the Island, how did she know to bring the picture?
The only way is to get a copy is from Penny. Widmore could do it easily - steal the picture and make a copy while she slept or ate dinner. Widmore could then trade it with Abaddon for in on the action.

My question: Where at the numbers?!?!

[Leeward]

Some suggestions for points of discussion in the podcast this week:

- What's up with Daniel's comment about how the light looks "diffused" on the island? Him being a physicist, there's gotta be something crucial about the nature of the island in that comment. Since light and time are so fundamentally connected in phsycics, I think it lays credence to the possibility of time-travel in the show.

- Is there a connection between Oceanic and Dharma? My first thought when the drunk pilot said "I was supposed to be flying 815 that day!" was that Oceanic deliberately flew airplanes along a certain course to (like future-Jack) pray for a crash on the island. Maybe they worked in two-man teams a la Dharma.

- Who stood to gain the most from "faking" the crash site of flight 815? My guess is Ben. Seems like his biggest motivation (besides mind-fucking everyone he meets) is keeping outsiders off the island. He had to know people would be looking for the airplane. And even though the island has it's own brand of camouflage, ensuring the search party ended ASAP would have been a priority. You fake the crash, set up the discovery of said crash, and bang, no more interested parties trolling around the south pacific.

- Dharma, Widmore, Hanso, Paik Industries... all related. We can make the assumption that the freighteers are backed by any one of these groups. And I don't think it's much of an assumption. It's gotta take a lot of cash to get an entire community and scientific research facility set up on a remote island. Not a modest investment. I highly doubt the Dharma backers would have cut their losses and moved on after “the purge.” If they are anything like real corporations, they’d stop at nothing to get every cent back, even if it meant years of searching. Consider what we know of Charles Widmore and Mr. Paik… ruthless, crooked, profiteering gluttons. Not the type to take shit from a little pipsqueak like Benjamin Linus.

- Taking the assumption Naomi and the freighteers are connected to Widmore somehow, we have an explanation for how she got Desmond’s photo. I have a theory I’d like to try out. Libby worked for Charles Widmore. Giving Desmond the boat was planned. And the boat was outfitted with some sort of device that would attract it to the island. Since Widmore was involved with Dharma, possibly he’d know about the island’s magnetic properties. They rig the boat so it has the best chance of finding the island (maybe a powerful magnet or something), make sure they can track where it goes… and if it all doesn’t work? At the very least he got rid of that lowlife Desmond and his plans to marry his daughter, Penny. But he underestimates their love and Penny spends the next three years trying to find Desmond. Penny, and her father are searching for the same thing, the island, but for different reasons. At some point they each become aware of the other’s progress in the search and begin stealing information from the other. It explains how Penny knew to look for an electromagnetic anomaly to find Desmond. It explains how a team sent by Charles would have a pic of Desmond. There are some big gaps there, but I think it’s a valid theory.

- I took creepzilla Abbadon emphatically repeating “There are no survivors of flight 815!” to mean “I want you to MAKE SURE there are NO survivors of flight 815.” Maybe Naomi was the only one aware of this order, and with her now dead, that’s why we end up with the Oceanic 6. Of course there are the biohazard bags and gas masks that fell out of the helicopter, but the other freighters might think they’re meant to be used on “Ben’s people.” Wasn’t it poison gas that Ben used to wipe Dharma off the island? How poetic that the same fate was meant for him.

[Radzinsky]

@ Locke's Shoes (and any other spoiler-happy posters)

Honestly, go find another board to post on. No one is asking for your "scoops," and there are plenty of places to find that information besides this discussion thread. I am here for intelligent discussion about the Lost episodes that have ALREADY HAPPENED, not those to come. And I would wager that the overwhelming majority of visitors to this site feel the same way and want to go in to each new episode of Lost COLD. Bottom line: there are plenty of places for Lost spoilers on the internet. This isn't one of them. So keep away, please.

@ Chris in Oly

Very nice post. I think that all of your answers are plausible ones. I hesitate a bit on your explanation of the Dharma fly-overs. I think that's the one piece that doesn't fit into the puzzle. If Dharma is still making air-drops, presumably they know how to get to the Island. That would obviate the need for any electromagnetic surveillance, etc.

One other point you make that I take well is the manipulation of Penny by Charles Widmore. I think you may be correct to assume that Charles is observing and/or pushing Penny to find Desmond, and that's how Naomi wound up with the picture.

@ Leeward

Also a nice post. I am also interested in the gas mask that Daniel Faraday brought with him to the Island, and I suspect that it may be the same as the Dharma gas mask that young Ben used to purge Dharma initially. It is poetic justice that the freighter-folks may be planning to do the very same thing to the Others and the 815 folks.

However, I don't think Ben faked the crash of Oceanic. According to the find815 ARG, the Maxwell Group was funding the expedition that found the plane wreckage, and the Maxwell Group can be included right in that massive corporate conglomerate that we seem to agree consists of Hanso, Widmore, Paik and Dharma. Actually, all of these connections, including the Maxwell-Widmore connection come from "Bad Twin," and you can find them on Lostpedia.

[Radzinsky]

Oh, I didn't make my last point: Widmore, etc., faked the crash. He and his bad-ass Abbadon are the ones with an interest in making everyone believe that Flight 815 is on the bottom of the ocean. They have the resources and the motivation to do it. Ben and the Others are crafty, but I don't think they're necessarily big enough to pull off something like that.

I actually also think that the "lie" shared among the Oceanic 6 revolves around this fake plane crash -- that they survived somehow in a lifeboat or something and everyone else is on the ocean floor. And it goes without saying that the 6 will be utterly forbidden to say anything at all about the existence of a mystery island.

[Gerald]

You guys always seem to think that Locke is such a chump. He always seems to be the fall guy. But it now looks like everything happens for a reason. Maybe Locke's whole life has lead up to what he is supposed to do on the island. He got shot by Ben, but the island did not save him. It was his father who stole his kidney that allowed him to live. His dad pushing him out the window and crippling him was an omen to what he could do on the island. I am not shre how the commune fits in. But he seems to not only understand, but know his destiny. I don't think Ben can communicate with Jacob as he claims. And it looks like Hurley has an ability to see Jacob as well. But it is Lock who is meant to lead the original others (Richard Alpert et al) while Ben has to figure out how to escape the grasp of Abbadon.

[Matt Lafferty]

Wow, what a great episode! I feel bad that I wasn't able to see it last night and contribue sooner!

Eva, I'm SURE it was Greg Gunberg's photo as the pilot--they just added a moustache!

Did anyone else call the working toll-free number for Oceanic families? Fun!

As to the idea that the polar bear skeleton could only have gotten in the desert due to time travel... couldn't it have simply been FLOWN off of the island? Now, I have no idea why it was in the desert--but if Dharma wanted to continue secret experiments after leaving Mystery Island, would they choose a) a Times Square office with an all-glass wall across from MTV, or b) THE DESERT?! There are reasonable, non-time-travel reasons for why the bear was there--I'd bet it's an attempt by the writers (who may be settling soon, yay!) to nerdify us off the right path.

Tahir, nice cut-and-dry but still spot on theory as to why each of the team is there!

robc, I love your theory (don't necessarily agree with it, but I love it) that with time travel, Adam and Eve could be characters like Jack and Kate!

Courtney, GREAT reminder that the polar bear flashback is post crash (less than 100 days ago).

Kathy aka Fangirl, thanks for the update about the writers' strike. You always bring such good Burbank info ;-)

Penultimately, a suggestion: calling them "the freighties" is okay, but how about "THE FROTHERS," which is short for "freighter others." It sounds kind of silly... but they are "Others from another mother," sort of!

Finally, I loved how ALL of our heroes (the crash survivors) were closed-mouthed, suspicous, sneaky, tricky, nasty people who acted just like Others to the freighter people! Everyone making sure no one was saying too much, Jack echoing Mr. Friendly aka Tom's line of them being surrounded, then a gun gets fired... it was absolutely lovely!

Simply put, this was the shortest 62 minute episode that they've done yet!!

[itsMrsB]

I agree with the person who suggested that we are dealing with different worlds; different dimensions. The shack is like the Dark Tower by Stephen King (yes, I am still holding on to this theory). It is not that the shack moves but that people move into differnent realities.
When Tom said not to cross a certain line in The Hunting Party, that was a division between worlds. Perhaps each of the stations are in different dimensions, but that is just an off the wall guess.

However I do believe the Island is a place where the veils between parallel realities and worlds grow very thin and are easily manuevered...even accidently. Only the "special" know how to find the right "doors." Hurley has seems to be very special. He traveled around the nexus where divisions between worlds are very narrow and there is access to many.

I believe that is how the Others and the true natives know so much about the losties and others who come to the island. They have played this before in other universes.

I think the black smoke and its noices are sounds of alternate selves getting too close to each other, the casimer (spelling?) effect in the video from comic-con.

Regarding clothes of the newcomers - there is a new official podcast released today that is with the costume designer. He explains how he came up with the clothes for the 3 new men. It is actually very interesting.

As to the burning question of who the oceanic 6 are I wonder if Kate is really one of them. I have read theories where she comes back under an assumed name, but I think that she may be a "ghost" - a Kate from another dimension - who appears to Jack as Charlie appears to Hurley. The one thing I haven't been able to reconcile is who "he" is - so, unless Sawyer gets out too, I think Kate is another Charlie who we will continue to see a lot of. It may be that she lives through season 4, but I don't think she is the same Kate we knew on the island. She is too pale and she holds herself so differently. Like Charlie she is dead but also here.

[Megan]

@ Mark B - I don't think the picture of Ben has to be from off island. I'm sure there were places on the island that had computers like that, and he did look like that around the time when the Purge happened, so I'd bet that the picture is from on-island, before the Purge.

@ Radzinsky - I think the CS Lewis reference with Charlotte is a good one. Doc Jensen at ew.com made the connection in his review of the ep, and i agree with what he had to say about it. In the 2nd Narnia book (by CS Lewis), called "Prince Caspian", the 4 kids get back to Narnia after having been gone for a long time, and they're on a beach, and the first thing they do is go swimming. Doc Jensen then surmised from that that Charlotte has been on the island before, pre-purge, and is possibly related to Annie, Ben's friend from when they were kids. Interesting, no?

@ David - I thought you made a very good point about how, if Abbadon hired Naomi and the Freighties, and they have now found the survivors of 815, why does he ask Hurley if anyone is left alive? One possible solution to this is if the Freighties along with the Oceanic 6 are sworn to silence about who else is alive on the island... But then, who is it that swears them to silence, if even Abbadon doesn't know?

@ Leeward - I agree, I think the comment Dan made about the light scattering oddly on the island is significant, but light and time aren't connected, except for the fact that if you travel at the speed of light time stands still.

@ Mike in the box - Teleportation and time travel are inextricably linked, by physics, if not always in science fiction. At a fundamental level, space and time are the same thing, so I don't think the two can be separated. That being said, it is possible that the writers will choose to use one or the other and not both, as many sci-fi writers do.

Someone mentioned something about Locke's father, how he ended up on the island, saying it was time travel or teleporation or something. I always thought it was pretty clear that Ben had had someone kidnap him and bring him drugged to the island, since Cooper said he was driving down the highway, got in an accident, next thing he knew he was on the island. We know Ben sent ppl off-island to peform various tasks, so that's where I thought (and still think) Locke's father came from.

And lastly, I agree with many of you, that Abbadon must be working for Widmore, or Widmore must be bankrolling this, or connected somehow. And if Charles Widmore knew it was possible that Desmond was on the island, he may have gotten the picture of Penny and Desmond to give to Abbadon to give to Naomi so that he would trust her, and help her find Ben, if she happened to run into Desmond.

[Matt Lafferty]

I dug around a bit and found the ratings for this past episode! ABC Lost 15.06 million viewers; 6.4 rating and a 16 share in the 18-49 demo which apparently is big, and an 8.8 household rating.

Perhaps someone, you know, who works in the industry could translate a bit?

My source: http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/02/08/nielsen-ratings-thursday-feb-7-lipstick-jungle-get-lost/2609

[Kathy aka Fangirl]

Greg Grunberg was the co-pilot not the pilot if I remember correctly. I don't think we ever saw the pilot until now. Doesn't the pilot always sit on the right side and the co-pilot on the left?

[Diaspar]

Excellent episode, a few points:
I don’t think there’s going to be a heavy ghost element in the narrative, it’d certainly bring Lost down several levels to start including paranormal nonsense (I think there’s logical explanations to the seemingly crazy things that go on).

A mind blowing conclusion isn’t going to emerge from a ghost story, but it could emerge from the elegant unification of the disparate elements that make up the entire show, I’m confident that the writers know what they’re doing on that front. Also, the scene with the polar bear remains is one of those ones that just elevate the entire show to a higher level, it alludes to that element of something massive being at the centre of all of this.

[Radzinsky]

3 points about smaller topics that have been raised on the board so far:

(1) THOUGHTS ON THE POLAR BEAR SKELETON

In the first place, it's worth noting as Dave did at the top of the page that we're not necessarily dealing with a fossil, but rather a skeleton. In other words, this whole situation doesn't necessarily implicate time travel (though other things clearly do). I think the fact that the leather on the bear's collar was not yet decomposed indicates that we're more likely dealing with a skeleton. There'd be no leather left if it were a fossil. Let's also recall the comment on polar bears from the Blast Door Map: "Stated Goal: repatriation accelerated de-territorialization of ursus maritimus through gene therapy and extreme climate change." The polar bear's appearance in the Tunisian desert could simply mean that Dharma used to do research out there -- and it was another spot where they were working with polar bears in a different climate -- this Tunisian desert climate being dry and hot instead of wet and hot like the Island.

There is of course still the question of the Hydra Station logo on the leather collar. We only know of one Hydra Station, and it's the underwater facility off the coast of the Island. But is there only one Hydra Station? Is it possible that Dharma operated in more than one location around the planet? I'd say so. And I'd even offer an uneducated guess and say that there are 5 Hydra Stations that Dharma operated -- the Hydra was a 5-headed beast after all, wasn't it?

(2) THE OCEANIC 6+1 (or, Kate isn't in the six)

Anyone remember how Kate had stolen a dead woman's driver's license in preparation for her journey on Michael's raft way back in the day? How she was planning to assume that woman's identity for a while if she was rescued? For everyone who has automatically assumed that Kate is one of the Oceanic 6 just because we saw her in Jack's flashback, I'd like to remind you that Kate is wanted for murder. That type of thing doesn't necessarily go away just because you miraculously survive a plane crash.

The Oceanic 6 is a MEDIA TERM. It's something that clearly grabs headlines at some point, such that Hurley can say, "I'm one of the Oceanic 6." How could Kate be a part of that? "I'm one of the Oceanic 6! And I also murdered my father!" The point here, I think, is that the Oceanic 6 doesn't guarantee that only six people leave the Island. It means that six people PUBLICLY leave the Island. Think about it. If Juliet leaves the Island, can she be one of the 6? No, she's not on the passenger manifest. Same goes for Ben or any Other that leaves the Island, forcibly or otherwise. So, for anyone who wants to forecast who's in the Oceanic 6, don't limit yourself to Jack, Hurley and Kate. As far as I'm concerned, only Jack and Hurley are confirmed members of the 6. Kate could have left and stayed underground -- and she trades her silence about the Island for her Get Out Of Jail Free card.

(3) STAR WARS CONNECTIONS

Anyone noticed these lately? Sawyer chokes Anthony Cooper just like Leia chokes Jabba? Kate and Sawyer pull the "Wookie Prisoner" trick on the guard outside Room 23? Ben's new nickname is Yoda? Daniel Faraday's first line is "I'm here to rescue you," same as Luke's line to Leia? The polar bear skeleton yesterday was found in Tunisia, where all the Tatooine scenes for Star Wars were shot? I love that the writers are SUCH nerds. There's never been a show like this. :)

[Sivan Cotel]

Does anyone else think Frank Lapidus, the pilot from the Freighties, looks a lot like the man we saw in Jacob's chair when Locke saw Jacob in season 3? Compare the following pics:

Jacob:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x20-curtain/2/curtain-cap536.jpg

Frank:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/userpics/10425/LOST_Y4_074_041.jpg

Maybe I'm just grasping at straws here...

[ben]

****Attention Lostcasters: Please DO NOT spoil another movie without sufficient warning this podcast I.E.Cloverfield ****

[Adam in Eve]

@ Ben,Agreed that was poor form from the guys.

[Don]

To the people talking about the compass bearing: bearing 137 is the opposite of bearing 325 on a compass. Michael was headed *away* from the island on the latter bearing...