Get Ready: LOSTCasts 63 The Constant

Wow, we got a great episode of LOST last night! Join us this weekend to talk about season 4, episode 5 of LOST, The Constant. This Desmond-centric episode is sure to cause speculation, and I have a feeling, some great, obscure conversation about time travel and other geeky things we seem to have an obsession with. Post a comment here, send us an email or join in the conversation on the LOSTCasts fan forum.

Comments

[sip]

its driving me crazy. where do i know fisher stevens from??? i looked at his IMDB record but nothing rings a bell; the only law & order i watch is SVU...i could swear he's been in something else relatively recently...

great episode last night. i'm really lost, it makes my head hurt to think about it! love it! ;)

[PoorEloise]

Great ass episode. Top 5 for sure. An actual story with a beginning, a middle and and end, with a resolution! Is this a first for the show? Lots of reveals, intriguing questions and just some cool editing with the time traveling stuff. Plus Desmond yelling, "You're not sticking any needles in me, Brother!" Sayid, Desmond, & Locke are just goldmine characters. Glad the writers are finally getting around to really giving us more of the first two. Peace. Great podcasts, by the way.

[daviboy]

Langoliers baby...Langoliers! The smoke monster is on the island because our Losties went through a time rift. Just a thought...don't want to ruin the Stephen King novel for those who haven't read it yet.

[spalz]

That was a mind fucking episode.. but a few things
1) Faraday knows that Desmond is his constant , so he has to make sure that Des goes on the helicopter back to the ship, and he knows what is going to happen. He played Des pretty well, and thats why they have a picture of Des and Penny. Faraday knows that is the future and has to make sure he is safe and has a constant.
2) Faraday said that a person conscious travels in time, and not anything else. So when Des travels to 1997 to 2004 and back and forward, his body remains as an empty shell until he arrives again.
3) Time travel, or moving through time seems to be more and more of a theme...
4) What was the point of the Black Rock diary of the First Mate? Seems he knew something about what was going on in the island, leading Penny's dad to want the book.
5) Penny mentioned that she'd been looking for Des for 3 years non stop. He's been gone for 8 total, so why wait 5 years to start looking? What happened?
6) Could that explain why Des was kicked out of the Army? His flash forwards make him nuts and he had to leave? We asked (what seems like years ago) why Des would be kicked out of the Army, now we may know..
7) The tattoo on the freighter guy's arm looks like it could be a bear's foot print (polar bear) and some type of black smoke thing going across it. Could they know smoky? (http://bp0.blogger.com/_Hxnvg45zlCw/R8ee6IEXsKI/AAAAAAAAAOA/CxAx6DQLC9I/s1600-h/vlcsnap-00019.jpg)

[daviboy]

My last comment is not an overall theory. I was just pointing out the similarities between the show and the book. Of course we know that the writers love King's work. Last night's episode was one of the best. This is the smartest show on TV.

[Ninjitsu Chicken]

@sip : In FRIENDS Fisher Stevens played Phoebe's boyfriend Roger who is also a psychiatrist.

"Roger: Well, I'm not... I'm not at all surprised they feel that way.
Phoebe: You're not? See, that's why you're so great!
Roger: Actually it's... it's quite, you know... typical behaviour when you have this kind of dysfunctional group dynamic. You know, this kind of co-dependent, emotionally stunted, sitting in your stupid coffee house with your stupid big cups which, I'm sorry, might as well have nipples on them, and you're all, like, "Oh, define me! Define me! Love me, I need love!"

Episode 1.13 [The One With The Boobies]

Hehehe

[Ninjitsu Chicken]

oh, I looked up the script... not as big a FRIENDS fan as a LOST fan...

[oddjob]

fisher stevens "Chuck Fishman" - "Early Edition".

"Get tomorrow's newpaper today"

[MikeDawg]

Hahaha, Fisher Stevens was "The Plague" in Hackers. That is where I've seen him from.

[Sam]

@ spalz -- Desmond has only been on the island for three years. Don't forget that he wasn't just kicked out of the army, he was in military prison. In "The Constant" Desmond appeared to already not be doing so well as a soldier, and I'm guessing that something in his subsequent actions -- related to his being unstuck in time, perhaps? -- led to his incarceration, following which entered the solo sailing race around the world which landed him on the island some three years ago. And something happened before he left (but after he got out of prison) that renewed Penny's interest in Desmond: remember Penny visiting him at the stadium where he was training (and where he first met Jack)?

[Adele]

Ok this is what I'm thinking for this whole Daniel Faraday thing....how did he know that he was going to run into Desmond in the future, on the island? He had to have written that note to himself before his FIRST attempt to leave the island. So here's what I got so far: this isn't Daniel's first time physically being on the island (or a similar island in a chain since they keep referencing several islands with the same strange properties), and that he knew he would run into Desmond on that trip. Did you ever notice how Daniel often drifts off while he's talking and pauses...then suddenly snaps back into reality? I bet that's him jumping back and forth through time and that he knew he was running out of time to find a constant.

And why did what's her face (the parachute girl) say she was looking for Desmond when others on the freighter are looking for Ben? What's the connection? Is it Penny's father? Does he have something to do with this 'powerful' group that can fill a plane with dead bodies and sink it in the ocean just as a decoy? I wonder if he is Ben's enemy of some kind.

That being said, maybe the only reason they were looking for Desmond is because they knew that Daniel had to make contact with Desmond in the future in order to cement himself on that timeline. Which means that Daniel had been to the past and knew that Desmond would come find him. Which also means that Daniel knew what was going to happen to Desmond before it happened. What Daniel didn't know is whether or not Desmond would be able to make contact with his constant before it was too late.

They prolly got the coordinates from Penny for where to look for Desmond. But then again, how did she get those coordinates? Isn't it a bit curious that the freighter crew is looking for two separate people yet both people were found at the same coordinates? That leads me to believe that whoever is looking for Ben also knew that Desmond would be there. Now, Desmond was there because of the race around the world that he was doing to impress Penny's dad. A race that Penny's dad set up and obviously knew the route for. So I'm thinking that after Desmond disappeared roughly around the same area that Ben was thought to be (the island), that looking for Desmond was an excuse to go look for Ben. By none other than Penny's dad, I think. Think about it, Penny obviously still loved Desmond and was probably begging her dad to help find him. Now Penny's dad can't say no to her, so he sends out a team looking for 'Desmond', but they're actually looking for his enemy, Ben. What better way to satisfy your daughter while still working towards your ultimate goal?

[Chris In Oly]

Widmore could have found the coordinates in the ship log he bought at auction. This was the log of the Black Rock, Magnar Hanso's ship that crashed on the island - where they found the slaves and dynamite.

This was being auctioned by Alvar Hanso.

This would give Widmore the location of the island and explain Desmonds race (sponsered by Widmore) and Henry Gales ballon (which had Widmore labeling).

He would not need Penny it appears....

[Pomegranate]

Re: directionality of time travel. Why does Desmond apparently go back in time while the rat went forward to later in the afternoon to learn the maze?
And I assume she didn't go farther forward than she lived...? I wasn't sure how long it was between her doing the maze and her dying.

[Mark B]

Des in 96 travels forward in time to 04. Using this method means that the writers have gotten around the usual time paradox of travelling back in time affecting the past. Someone coming from the past to the future can't cahnge the future by being there because they are there.

Remember the Des who was told about the Eloise experiment was 96 Des stuck in 04. The 04 Des was 'overwritten' by the 96 Des coming forward, hence Des in 04 had no idea what was going on. Now Des has his constant he'll be ok.

It all makes sense now.

[Debbi]

I think I figured it out, and if I did everything kind of falls into place and actually makes sense!! (well to me anyway....) Entering the numbers on the computer every 4 hours was actually 'dumping' excess magnetic energy. Now that it's gone with the hatch blowing up, the energy has nowhere to go but out, creating a time 'rift' for lack of a better word. Anyone near or in the explosion suffers from whatever Desmond has, flashing back & forth to other times. Noting that almost all the "Oceanic 6" (or 5 so far since we don't know the last one) expressed a desire to go back except Kate, as she returned to a 'world' that proved to be forgiving. Reason: upon returning to the world, they find they are not in their known time. Sort of a parralel time thing. Using this theory, everything seems to make sense. When the rocket lands at the target 20 minutes late, it kinds of proves the theory. When the helicopter took off from the island, we were shown the horizon, yet no boat was seen. I don't think a small copter could go that far on half a tank of gas, figuring they used half to GET to the island! The reason the pilot was told to follow the exact co-ordinates might be because that's where the rift opens so they can get thru!! Plus, they took about 20 minutes to get to the ship, yet were gone more than a day. island time!!!!
ALSO: when Kate was on trial, references were made to "8 got off the island, 2 didn't make it, and the rest would have died if not for Kate" by Jack. Does this mean Jack was lying about other survivors still on the island? OR...since leaving the island, does he not remember, but Kate does, which is why she keeps saying he believes the lie??? We know 5 of th Oceanic 6...Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayis, and now Aaron. Is Aaron's mother one of those that died? I don't think she was the one in the funeral home, as Kate wouldn't have been so adamant about going to the viewing. Anyway...that's my theory!!

[Midnight]

I'm just a bit confused about the frequency of Desmonds "switching". It seemed to happen to Desmond about every 15 minutes. (And faster and faster.)
Yet he managed to travel from the military base, to the university to the auction, to Penny's house, seemingly without losing any time/switching even once. Technically wouldnt he have run out of time before even reaching the university?

I know it's nitpicking, but it bothers me.

[ManOfScienceFJC]

@midnight. Same thing here. That did bother me a bit but the overall episode was probably my favorite of any season.

[Cihan]

Well this kind of time travel is relative right? So although he had 'plenty of time' to do stuff in 96, he barely had time to do anything in 04 because thats the timespace the frequency got faster in.

Or something.

Amazing episode, and I really dont have much else to add to these talkbacks these days due to lack of time (pun) to formulate substantial thoughts worth posting.

Really dreading the break. Anyone know how long it will be again?

Really hope Michael is the 'man on the boat' that left the door open. Want to see what he's been up to since we last saw him...and whether anyone took his son.

*cough*

[zuul]

Hi !

I haven't read all the comments, so maybe someone already said this... Anyway :
We know that people remain "stoned" while their mind travels in time.
This should explain why the passengers of flight 815 were all found dead. Some really were dead, and the others, the lostees, had their mind transported to a different time period inside the island. Hence the danger of dying if they leave the island, since they could return to their dead existence at the bottom of the sea...

[Jason]

Midnight, I was wondering that as well -- we saw shifts where Desmond was at the army base for just a few minutes before shifting back - no cuts in time - and then all of a sudden he was able to travel long distances during his shifts. Was that a continuity error, or was he actually making those jumps? It's nit-picky, I guess, but otherwise it was a nearly flawless episode. Brilliant acting by all involved, and that final scene with Penelope will easily go down as one of the best scenes in the series.

[johnnyd]

I think a lot of my friends are disappointed by the "time travel" spin, but the attentive fan would have seen it coming. I'm thinking of the brain washing video Carl is forced to watch: only fools are enslaved by space and time.
Other thoughts:
This also troubles any timeline we try to place on the island. What if the time delay Fairaday discovered is proportional? It's only 30 minutes for the freighter, but it could be a longer delay in the "real world."

My idea is that the island isn't anywhere in specific. It's not a place on the globe you can point to. I think you might be able to get to it from anywhere if the island wants you do, however. This could explain the polar bear in Tunisia.

[Dav]

I don't if anyone has brought up this site before, but its very interesting. It's just another theory - so take it with a grain of salt - but very interesting nonetheless.
www.timelooptheory.com

[Steve]

Deepak Chopra - Seven Spiritual Laws of Success:

http://www.spiritsite.com/writing/deecho/part16.shtml

[ninetynine]

I am always amazed by Sayid's action now, questions later attitude. He is definitely someone you want on your team.

[zuul]

this island reminds me more and more of an old SF novel. I can't remember the exact title, but it's about a highway that lets you travel in time. It's a kind of time travelling mad max story...
So what if this island is a time travel hub ? That would explain ben's spy-like activities (passports, foreign currencies, ...)
Remember that space doesn't count if you're travelling on your own timeline. You may be tousands of miles from where you left, but it's the coordinate you happened to be at the time frame you teleported to...

I had been wondering for some time if the flashbacks weren't actually time travels, like desmond did today. What would prove the countrary ?

Now for some wacky thoughts :

picture everyone's timeline as a line in time and space.
Remember how almost everyone in the show has met the others at some point in the past ?
What if you take all those intersections and somehow squeeze them in the same spot.
That woud be the island.
(Picture the cheesy string timeline web that hiro uses in Heroes :))

[Andrew]

Hi...has anyone else thought about this episode in relationship to an earlier Jack flashback where he meets Desmond--who seems to know a little about Jack. Maybe Jack was Desmond's constant.

[whatalog]

ok, so there is only a difference in time between the island and the outside world when travelling to/from the island?

the payload while travelling, the chopper while travelling, the older walt (michael and walt travelling by boat)

but while writing this ive realised a contradiction... if the above is true then the more someone were to travel the more time would pass on the island/outside world (for that person) potentially just making enough trips would age the island in the relative to the traveller.

i dont really know what im talking about anymore, and ive gone a bit cross-eyed.

bloody hell i love lost.

woo!

wait... the time travelling thing! charlie was at/near the exploding hatch. thus exposure to electro magnetism therefore the possibility of him being a time traveller, his constant being hurley, thats why he visits hurley in the flashforwards..... but that doesnt make sense of why he disapeared....

dammit i thought i was onto something.

love you bye, bye, love you....

[Gavin from uk]

So how about this, way back everyonr pushed a button to save the world. So then they stopped pushing it!!

What happened is indeed a local rift in time caused by the magnetic release.

But what if the island is actually still on the correct real time and the whole rest of the world actually slipped around it....WoW...

[kaherokh]

@Debbi
"We know 5 of th Oceanic 6...Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayis, and now Aaron."

Would Ben count as number 6?

So far Ben appears to have some type of major leverage that hasn't been fully disclosed. Whatever the case he has unlimited resources to money, unlimited connections to people, and the power to persuade or manipulate people.

Can this possibly explain how Ben was able to chnage the time requested to get the 3.2M from a few hours to a week?

Could the island be the constant for Ben?

This still doesn't explain: Jacob, the polar bear and the black smoke.

[Cynthia]

@ spalz: I'm not so sure that Faraday actually knew that Desmond was his constant until he saw it in his journal. Something tells me that he has lapses in short term memory (remember the three cards with Charlotte?) as a result of his research with Eloise and going through that storm-like barrier between the ship and the island.

@ Andrew: Penny is Desmond's constant, and apparently, he doesn't remember meeting Jack at the stadium, or doesn't realize it was Jack.

@ kaherokh: I don't think Ben has been having any problems dealing with time differences, because he's been on the island for years with no neurological effects. I think that the conversation with Miles, and his request for more time (no pun intended) was simply due to his being held captive, and not anything to do with time, other than the normal progression.

My kids and I have been hoping that Charlie will resurface, that he survived the Looking Glass station 'going under', as it were. *fingers crossed*

And, why would Claire give up Aaron? She must have died, which really sucks because I was hoping she and Charlie would get together.

A time distortion would explain a lot (but not everything, of course) of what happened on the island. Walt appearing to be older to Locke would be one of those things.

One other thing is, if you remember, when Des was visiting Faraday at the college in 1996, Des thought he was back on the ship in the future for about 5 minutes, but Faraday said he was out for 75 minutes, a difference of 15 to 1. But, that doesn't mean it has to be time travel, just consciousness travel between different points within one's own lifetime.

Oh, and it's possible that Des was switching time periods when he felt he really needed to, almost like his own will had an effect on when he jumped. Either that, or the writers just wrote it how it best fit the needs of the story, and we're supposed to just "suspend disbelief".

[whatalog]

just been flying around a few boards, and the button in the hatch has been mentioned...

something just doesn't sir right with me.

if its so important to the safety of the world or whatever, to dissapate the electromagnetic build up then why would the makers of the hatch give such responibilty to the inadequcies of a human. why wouldnt such a job be given to an automated system? just seems extremly careless....

has this been discussed years ago? am i an idiot? let me know...

[zuul]

about the hatch button and the de-magnetisation :
couldn't this had been a kind of time beacon ?
a constant ?
Every 108 minutes, a magnetic discharge.
would those 108 minutes be really constant ? maybe machines couldn't be trusted to be regular enough, so they used humans. But not any kind of humans, people like locke who are "special", ie maybe have their own constants already ?

[whatalog]

"maybe machines couldn't be trusted to be regular enough, so they used humans"

thats my point- humans aren't regular enough! obviously proved by the hatch exploding... a machine wouldn't question why it was pressing a button it would just do it - always. leaving it up to humans just seems unreliable no? especially when you are entrusting the saftey of an island, space and time rifts and whatever else! seems a bit irresposible on the part of whoever set the hatch up.

[Kane]

A comment to someone who said that Des' had been away for 8 years, and that someone asked why Penny was looking for him only 3 years: Desmond broke off with Penny over 8 years ago but his been missing only for a bit over 3 years.

A comment why the pushing of a button wasn't made by a machine: computers 30 years ago propably wasn't very stable and you could trust in humans more. i.e. when the computer broke, Des' could use the fail safe.

This is a question, not a comment. And I'd like to get answer to this if there is one.

The time travells differently on the Island than off the Island (the flight took 20min but in the Island it felt over 12h). Ben came to the Island in the 70's, about 30 years ago and that's exactly how much he has gotten older in the Island (this would suggest that the time travells in the same way on the island and off the island). Desmond was pushing the button for 3 years and that's exactly how long Penny had been looking for him (this would suggest that the time travells in the same way on the island and off the island). The rocket that flew 40 miles in a few seconds but for the losties it felt 31 minutes (this would again suggest that the time travels differently).

The question is: in what way the time flows on the Island? Could Langoliers be used to explain things?

[Kane]

btw: the rat travelled forward in time and Desmond travelled backwards in time. It was in 2001-2004 that he got the radioation and it was 1996 where he woke up. Does this mean anything?

[ManOfScienceFJC]

new lostcast up soon? Cannot wait for it...

[Bazooka Joe]

Quick note: I don't think Faraday consciously knew that he had met Desmond in the past. If you recall, when we first meet Faraday he's watching the news brief about finding the wreckage of Oceanic 815. Someone (presumably Charlotte) asked why Faraday was so upset and he replied that he didn't know.

It's possible that now that Desmond has become, or will become, his constant that he will become lucid and "remember" his previous meeting with Desmond.

I had a bunch of other ideas and theories last night but I seem to forgotten them this morning when I woke up. Hmmm, maybe I need to find my constant.

The ending was spectacular! I felt like Jack crying in the jungle. I just can't shake the feeling that Penelope and Desmond are doomed lovers :-(

[Jon W]

Off....the....scale

[Col]

@Kane

Des didn't travel back in time, just like the rat he traveled forward. What was different in his case and made it kinda confusing is that even though the 2004 Des got the radiation, the 1996 Des was the one that suffered the consequences. Remember that while in 2004 he had no idea who anyone was, since he hadn't met anyone yet.

[Jon W]

Just looking back

@Adele...I really like the idea of Ben and Charles Widmore being enemies

[jruiz1094]

its known that the woman who asked faraday why he was so upset was his caretaker not his wife. it was revealed on one of those pop up shows that airs before the new episode

[Cynthia]

@ Kane: I think the difference in time is caused by going through the barrier that protects the island, but time passes the same on the island itself as it does everywhere else.

@ Bazooka Joe: I'm with you, totally spectacular ending! I was almost crying when Des and Penny finally got to talk and re-confirmed their love for each other. But, I'm hoping that they're not doomed lovers, as you put it.

@ jruiz1094, thanks for the heads up on Faraday's caretaker not being his wife, I missed the pop-up version of that episode.

I can't find who it was that mentioned about the numbers having to be entered every 108 minutes, but wasn't that action, in addition to keeping the electromagnetism under control, also an experiment to see if and how long a person would continue to perform the action?

[Jason]

I love your podcast, guys, but I was PISSED this week. I'm a season behind in watching Ugly Betty and Tasha gave up a HUGE plot point in season 2 that I didn't know about. I've been doing everything I can to avoid hearing about this season and then BAM, no warning, huge plot point spoiled. Not cool! Edit your shows better, please!

[dudester]

love the podcast... most of the time... but seriously stop giving Tasha a reason to laugh.

it's the most annoying thing in the world and everytime i hear her laugh it makes me cringe. and worse it makes me want to turn off the podcast.

either get her off the show or get her to stop laughing. please for god sakes.

[itsMrsB]

Perhaps adjusting the recording level would help. I have to put the sound up full volume to clearly hear the men, which makes Tasha's laugh even louder and more jarring. It might be worth a try for Tasha to sit farther away from the microphone, and let John, Robert and Matt sit closer to the mike. I remember there was another time when rearranging the seating and/or mike placements helped the audience to be able to hear Matt better. (BTW, I really missed him this podcast. Maybe during the April hiatus you can do another podcast on this episode with Matt present?)

All this acoustic stuff aside, I want to say that I really miss the detailed theories and research that your podcast used to excel at. I know I have no right to any expectations from you. I also know that having babies in the house is very exhausting for new parents. Everyone is so tired and with all the demands of the baby, relationships get strained. Trying to find the time for Baby, work, Baby, Spouse, Baby, showering, Baby, foodshopping, etc etc etc can be an almost impossible challenge. Leaving time to make a podcast, let alone research it the way you used to, well, I can sympathise and I can't offer solutions, except for Time (ah, the relativity of it all as the children grow up )

Maybe you know someone with the intellectual pov your show offered who has the time (and desire) to do this kind of research who can be added to your podcast? Someone who can discuss theories; literary, philosophical, historical and other references within the episodes, who has an eye for finding the tiny details on the show that are often overlooked? Only Super-Person, lol, yeah, I know, but you guys excelled at it.

I actually turned off the podcast this week and that makes me sad. I feel like I have lost something very valuable. And although I have no right to expect anything of any of you, I guess I do. At least I sure hope you will offer us we more podcasts of the high quality you are famous for.

Finally, Tasha, please look at this as constructive criticism. I know it isn't easy for you to read this. However, you can do things to make it better if you choose. Please try rearranging where you sit in respect to the mike. Please know that voices can be trained and modulation learned with a little bit of practice. Acting courses, speech courses, practicing diction (think Prof. Higgens and Eliza Doolittle - think Melanie Griffith in Working Girl).

One last thing (I promise)- the guys have been doing the podcast for a long time now. Let them run the show and lead the discussions now - You are new. People tend to be resistant to change. Please don't try to jump in and take over. It only backfires. Once the audience can actually hear what you have to say without cringing at the sound, we might discover you are the most intelligent of all. Work with us. You can make it easier for us to listen to you.

Peace (really)