Get Ready: LOSTCasts 71 & 72

Update: We are indeed on for this weekend! With another great episode last night, season 5, episode 3 of LOST, The Little Prince. Join us this weekend as we talk about both episode 3 & 4!

We got another great episode of LOST last night, with the airing of season 5, episode 3 of LOST, Jughead. Unfortunately, we won't be podcasting this weekend as John is out of town, but we'll be back next weekend with a combined podcast for episodes 3 and 4. In preparation for that podcast, send us your thoughts on Jughead by sending us an email, posting a comment here, or leaving us an audio comment by calling our automated audio comment voicemail at 206-984-3516. We'll see you next weekend! Stay LOST.

Comments

[Chris]

I actually didn’t think this episode was that great until the last 15 minutes or so. A young Chuck Widmore was cool to see. Guessing by his reaction to Alpert not letting him shooting Locke and his general cockiness I would suspect he makes his billions by pulling a Benedict Arnold.

Another thing I found interesting was that all the others except Alpert where about the same age. I wonder where they were recruited from?

I would also suspect by Alpert’s reaction to Locke at that point of time Alpert has no idea of any time shifting. That means there has to be another reason he doesn’t age. I would suspect it is very closely tied to why Jackup is whatever he is, but that is just a general hunch.

I think the biggest most important nugget from this episode is the bomb. They showed it to us for a reason. Assuming they did what faraday suggested I figure there are 2 good possible reasons why they showed it to us.

1. That it is somehow currently effecting the island i.e. the radiation from it is interacting with a “negative energy pocket” causing things like time issues or stopping babies from being born or something like that.

2. It will play a role in the future i.e. they might need a nuke explosion to stop something or as I like to think it is what ends the world. In the premier Waxman stopped them from blasting into one of those “negative energy chambers” and said something like or help us all. I would imagine if that went off it would expose all the chambers on the island possibly ending the world?

[Chris]

I actually didn’t think this episode was that great until the last 15 minutes or so. A young Chuck Widmore was cool to see. Guessing by his reaction to Alpert not letting him shooting Locke and his general cockiness I would suspect he makes his billions by pulling a Benedict Arnold.

Another thing I found interesting was that all the others except Alpert where about the same age. I wonder where they were recruited from?

I would also suspect by Alpert’s reaction to Locke at that point of time Alpert has no idea of any time shifting. That means there has to be another reason he doesn’t age. I would suspect it is very closely tied to why Jackup is whatever he is, but that is just a general hunch.

I think the biggest most important nugget from this episode is the bomb. They showed it to us for a reason. Assuming they did what faraday suggested I figure there are 2 good possible reasons why they showed it to us.

1. That it is somehow currently effecting the island i.e. the radiation from it is interacting with a “negative energy pocket” causing things like time issues or stopping babies from being born or something like that.

2. It will play a role in the future i.e. they might need a nuke explosion to stop something or as I like to think it is what ends the world. In the premier Waxman stopped them from blasting into one of those “negative energy chambers” and said something like or help us all. I would imagine if that went off it would expose all the chambers on the island possibly ending the world?

[KB]

Agree with Chris- I felt like there was too much filler which was just a shout out to Desmond/Penny/Charlie fangirls. I would have liked to see more of the original losties and Richard/Juliette.

Honestly, the episode didn't give me a lot to work with in terms of theories, another let down from the typical Desmond-centric episode. I doubt the h-bomb was buried, there's no way it could be contained on an island with hatches blowing up and such. I'd be interested to see if faraday "bucks" time and shoots at the bomb anyways. He knows that he can't change the future, so essentially the bomb cannot blow up before 2004.

[Jason]

I sent this in an email, but I'll make the idea public:
I have a theory regarding Des and Penny's son.

The assumption is they named their son after Charlie Pace, but what if the baby IS Charlie Pace?

I know it's a little crazy, but it kind of makes sense. What if something happens to Des and Penny (either they get killed or end up on the island etc.) and, at some point travel back to the past (or give the baby to someone who does) and he is left with the Pace family. Charlie then crashes on the island. Now, if this is true, then Charlie was conceived AFTER Des was rescued. According to Faraday, if something wasn't there before, it can't be now when you time travel. Therefore, in order to save the castaways, Charlie would have had to die because he wasn't conceived until after they were rescued. Therefore, Charlie's last moments are spent with his own parents (Des and Penny) in the Looking Glass and he doesn't even know it. It's kind of a Greek tragedy -- his own father gets the visions that Charlie needs to die and that's only so he can be born in the first place!

I know it's a little crazy, but somehow it makes sense...

[Rob]

Here are some nearly unfounded theories:

Farraday is the son of Ellie (blond, commando, chick)--aka Eloise Hawking--and Charles Widmore )making him Penny's half-brother). This fits in with my theory that the three remaining "freighties" were all born on the island. Miles is Dr. Cheng/Waxman/Hallowax's infant seen in the season premier. And Charlotte, whom we once saw excavating Dharma Polar Bear skeletons in the desert, has obviously been to the island before and has referred to coming to the island as "coming home" (or something to that effect).

I think baby Charlie is going to turn out to be more important than we currently suspect. This season has trended strongly toward baby/toddler themes with Aaron, Ji Yeon, Baby Cheng, and now Charlie. There is something going on there. I don't know what.

Also, what will come of the fact that, presumably, now Charles Widmore will remember meeting John Locke on the island in 1954 (much like Desmond "remembered" his conversation with Farraday after it happened in the islands distorted timeline)?

I agree that the beginning of this episode was short on obvious revelation, but--as is the way of Lost--the mundane will eventually prove to be very important.

Stay Lost.

[John Keehler IS Interesting]

So you're taking another week off? You guys stink.

[Scott in Philly]

are we led to believe that "ellie" is short for "danielle"? is that really Rouseau? I mean, when Sayid found her in the woods, it seemed like she was stocked with similar weapons we see in this episode as well as army surplus gear.

I didn't read the idea here so either I'm a complete dumbtard for making it up or i'm freakin brilliant.

[Scott in Philly]

jeremy Davies stars in the movie "The Million Dollar Hotel" (wierd artsy flick written by Bono of U2) along with Mel Gibson & Milla Jovavich who plays Davies' love interests.... "Eloise"....

[DocWaxman]

thank you, lostpedia.
lots of theories out there asserting that ellie from 5.03 is ms hawking.
nice to have back-up references to go with interesting & credible hunches.
not a stretch to speculate about each one's physical manner & appearance,
but technically, ms hawking's FIRST name has NEVER BEEN HEARD on screen.
here's something meatier to sink our teeth into:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Ms._Hawking [bottom of TRIVIA]

(i don't consider this link spoilery since the info AIRED in 5.02!)

and to supplement further:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Enhanced_episodes

safe to say we can't take any "pop-up video" episodes for granted now.

Waxman

[JakeG]

@ Rob

The Charles Widmore we have always known has always known of John Locke. If you recall, Alpert visits Locke in the hospital when he was a baby because Locle told him to. I went back and watched that episode. It is so good knowing that Alpert was investigating something he didn't understand.

Desmond is a special case. Faraday planted a memory. Basically sent a message to future Des using past Des for some reason we are yet to understand. So in this case, Widmore has remembered the day the Losties came and disappeared most of his life. He has used this information to manipulate events.

What is really cool about this ep is that the Others met the Losties for the first time in 1954. Is this perhaps how they know everything about them when they crash, because they have been researching them their entire lives? Crazy thought.

[Mike in the Box]

@ Doc Waxman:
Good find on the enhanced episodes. It would stand to reason that Ellie is then Eloise and that is why Daniel appears to be familiar and yet unfamiliar with her.

@ Rob:
Interesting thoughts about the importance of the babies. I had noticed that the babies/toddlers were becoming a plot device.

[Rachel]

When Faraday mentioned the covering the bomb in concrete I immediately thought of Sayid in Season 2 trying to make a hole in the Swan hatch and saying that there was a thick layer of concrete down there. Perhaps Desmond turning the fail safe key somehow detonated the bomb?

[JakeG]

@ Chris

Jackup is spelled Jacob... Sorry, I had to correct you being a Jacob myself.

[Tahir]

I loved this episode.Some great reveals.

I had to laugh at how the red shirts are been killed off.
It seems like one team of writers are trying to out-do the
other writers in how nasty the red shirts deaths will be.

I'm looking forward to a red shirt decapatation in the
coming episodes :)

[Popcorn Samurai]

OH MY GOD!

I just clicked on the music tab on my itunes and the part at the bottome that says how many days it would take to listen to all the music you have on your hard drive said

108 days!!!

Popcorn Samurai

[Karen LH]

Did it strike anyone else as odd that the Others' "secret" language was Latin? Latin is hardly an unknown language. Is it possible that the Others (or some of them) originated as some kind of Oxford student society that somehow got caught up with the same time travel research that Faraday and his mother were involved in? The only reason that I'm thinking this is that, while I can't see some arbitrary group of people choosing to speak to each other in Latin, I can see a group of university students deciding to do something like that.

[duff]

When Ellie first meets Daniel she says "You just couldn't stay away, could you?". At first I thought that YOU=Daniel, but by the end I suppose that it was a more general use of "you" meaning the US Military. Is that everyone else's feeling, as well?

[KB]

@duff- yes, and I don't think there is any huge american military conspiracy lurking. it was very common in the 50s for the US to seek out unihabited islands to test weaponry.

@karen- written latin is somewhat common, but its been a while (since masses are in english now) that spoken latin has been common knowledge.

[Karen]

great epi again.. filler,yes,but a good one. It was good to see widmore be so pleading with desmond. still want to know what he meant when he told him (the constant), "its not me who hates you". I feel that Daniel isnt really who he claims to be. for instance, when he is sitting on the sand and charlotte brings him a mango. he pretended to be working! the only thing that comes to mind with widmore and henry is - power play - leader election gone sour.

[Scott in Philly]

Subject: "juliet's cleavage"

Question: Why so much of it? anyone else notice her giant rack in every scene she's in?

answer: Elizabeth mitchell is a big fan of her own cleavage and forces cinematographer & costume designer to put "them" on display in every scene.

proof: Official LOST podcast recent interview with her - honestly, did anyone even LOOK at her face in that interview?? and this picture

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/object/event/wireimage/15/226/693_g.jpg

THEORY: Juliet's breasts are the real "others"

[Scott in Philly]

Subject: Juliet's Cleavage

Question: why is there so much of it? Am I the only one to notice her giant rack in every scene she's in?

Answer: Elizabeth Mitchell is a huge fan of her own cleavage & forces cinematographer & costume designer to put "them" on display in each scene

Proof: official LOST podcast's most recent vid-cast... serioulsy, can anyone even LOOK at her face in that interview?? also this picture

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/object/event/wireimage/15/226/693_g.jpg

Theory: Juliet's breasts are the real "others"

[Little To]

In reply to the Charlie comment above; yes that is an interesting theory. It would also fit in with the theme that Charlie never felt truly loved until he came into the island. If he was separated from his true parents, he would always be looking for a sense of belonging. As interesting as this plot twist would be, I see it as unlikely. On a side note, "Charlie" could also be a young Charles Widmore. That would be a terrifyingly strange paradox though, since Penny would be the mother of Charles, who would be the father of Penny, who would be the mother of Charles...

Also, I felt that this episode was stronger than the other two of the season so far. It had a little bit of everything; Desmond episodes are always something to look forward too (think of 2.23 "Live Together, Die Alone," 3.17 "Catch-22," and 4.05 "The Constant"). Desmond's emotion always appeals to me, and makes him one of the more interesting Lost characters. For instance, Desmond was always looked upon as a coward before he came to the island. When he was last in Widmore's office, he was nervous, and didn't stand up to big Charles, when he insulted him. Fast-forward to 2007. Desmond bursts into Widmore's office, stating his demands, and taking control of the meeting between the two as he should have the last time. The difference between the meetings is Desmond's constant, Penny. With her by his side, he feels he now has control of his life; she gives him his confidence.

[Mical T]

via www.timelooptheory.com -

Widmore is Penny and Desmond's Child
"Penny gave birth to a child named: Charlie...aka Charles Widmore. Then they go back in time on the island to around the year 1930 with young Charles Widmore. At some point, Penny and Desmond die, and then Widmore grows up on the island. Eventually, he is exiled and then leaves the island, marries Mrs. Hawking and then gives birth to Penny again, creating a loop. Note in season 4, when Ben sneaks into Widmore's room in the night. Ben: We both know I can't kill you, so I'm going to kill your daughter. Ben says this because he knows that he will be "indirectly" killing Widmore if Penny dies, thus she cannot go back in time with Charles for a second time - in other words, Ben would be altering what is supposed to be written in the past, thus creating some type of paradox. This all goes back to the notion that Widmore was responsible for killing Alex back in season 4. Perhaps... Alex was Ben's mother as well?"

[Jackeduplockedown]

Posted this in the fan forum

Here's to trying to get everyone back there and get it roaring again.

An excellent start to the season.

Last night's episode "Jughead" a little disappointing in terms of the ending (so typically abrupt and unsatisfying) I suppose but overall some real good TV with some major clues and reveals.

#1 Widmore is funding everything Faraday does. This is interesting, at first I thought Faraday had tricked Widmore to become part of that expedition, now it seems possible that Faraday is a threat to the Losties? Not sure yet. But it seems like Widmore wants to harness this time travel thing as bad as Marvin Candle. Funding Faraday's research and the care of the "subject" no unstuck in time permanently.

#2 Widmore himself was an Other. Not the angle I saw coming. Always had him pegged as a Dharma Man. So now it seems likely that Ben somehow got Charles removed from the Island and this is likely the original cause of their feud. Also this explains Widmore's "nightmares" he describes to Ben since Ben moved the Island. Seems like new memories forming from his days on the Island.

#3 Richard Alpert confirmed ageless (or extreme decelerated aging)on the Island. As far as him giving the compass to Locke, I'm stumped, seemed like the Jacob name drop was the key to Richard's heart. However it's clear that Alpert already having the memory of not recognizing John the first time they met (1954 two years before John's birth) has left a message in the compass that 1954 Alpert can not find until time-traveling John has moved on. My greater Richard Alpert theory is that he is one of the Island's assigned protectors and though he too is subject to the laws of time is more evolved in terms of understanding them and living within them seemlessly and without the terror or confusion most of the losties are experiencing.

#4 Elly - This one looks big. She could be Dan's Mom, she could be Ms. Hawking, she could be both. Dan's lab rat was named Eloise. Dan recognizes her but she doesn't recognize him at all. There would need to be a reason for the name being the same as the rat, us not hearing Daniel's mom's name and that entire scene with a character like her, who we will not see again most likely. One thing making it seem unlikely she is Desmond's Mom is her allegiance to Ben or perhaps rather Ben's being subordinate to her. With Widmore\Faraday aligned it seems unlikely he'd seen Desmond to seek the Ben Linus\Hawking alliance. Almost sure of the Mom thing.

#5 They're not done moving. We still have not seen them in the Dharma led time when Daniel finds his way into the Orchid during construction. It also seems possible that he successfully started moving his own mind through time quite a while ago. This explains the sort of memory loss and him saying it's not his first time on the Island etc. He also understands that he can not change time, but Desmond can and though he doesn't fully understand it, he knows enough to employ Desmond's help whenever possible.

A few other things I'm sure others have said but I am really thinking now

The Island started moving or was already moving when Rousseau's crew crashed there; this explains the sickness that eventually befell her crew.

The Island moved when the Black Rock crashed and that's why it's in the middle of the Jungle.

In season one when Locke and Boone find the plane and Locke's leg goes numb. It is Locke being shot by Ethan on a different time line intersecting for a moment. Time moves on several planes on the Island all at once. This is also the rough explanation for the Whispers.

The show is great. I love how they still have me guessing on things as simple as who the good guys are and who the bad guys are.

It really presents the characters and issues as things are in reality. By showing the different sides of each character and there motivations for actions, without seeing the whole picture it's impossible to decide what's right or wrong, good or evil...

[DocWaxman]

Four-Toed Statue ... Of Sawyer?

Tantalizing theories out there that Sawyer's injured foot
from 5.03 is related to LOST's famous four-toed statue through
backward-in-time-travelling events we have yet to see.
I love it. That statue does indeed depict someone's LEFT foot,
and (someone please correct me) Sawyer's LEFT foot pinky
toe was (as I recall, too lazy to call it up) injured in 5.03.
In support of this fantasy story line, I offer the following:
"Sawyer is the only surviving main character from Season 1
[...] who has not appeared in a flash-forward."
[ http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/James_"Sawyer"_Ford Trivia section ]
Makes me think LOST's producers are saving Sawyer for grander
settings more uniquely attuned to his con-man virtues.
It all smacks of Rudyard Kipling's story "The Man Who Would Be King."
[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Would_Be_King ]
Also made into an excellent film:
[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Would_Be_King_(film) ].
As we saw in "The Long Con"(2.13), Sawyer certainly has the
goods to manipulate crowds of people to his advantage.
Also similar to the Kipling caper, Sawyer is an opportunistic
hoarder of every commodity & treasure to be found.
Even as recently as 5.01, he bangs on the Swan Station's
"back door" looking for "food, beer & clothing"
rather than help his fellow 'travellers'. A talented mind so
consumed with personal comfort could hardly resist the royal
treatment that would await him in more 'primitive' island times.
In fact, the purposeful way that Sawyer's entire persona has been
written up until now would seem to, not only accomodate,
but press insistently toward this fate.
Would he get burned in the process?
Could he later return to his friends?
Let's look for Sawyer to lose that toe to gangrene or something.
Some 'surplus' military body armor would come in handy too.
Of course all this is crap if it was Sawyer's RIGHT
pinky toe that got skewered. Still fun to imagine ;-)

Waxman

[Mike in the Box]

@Doc Re: Sawyer's foot.

Just for trivia's sake, it was his left foot. However, it is his big toe, not pinky. Here is a screencap from the lost-media site.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1454-390.html

[Andy Hurley]

Just been watching the latest episode again and I spotted something. I'm not sure if it's been mentioned (haven't had time to read the whole thread yet, will catch up tomorrow) but in the scene where Desmond is talking to Widmore there is a city skyline visible through the windows.

Initially I was looking at it carefully trying to work out if they had filmed it in London (from the context I'm pretty sure that's where it's meant to be). My first thought was that it looked nothing like London. Then though the left hand window we see a river that looks vaguely like the Thames.

The I saw it! Just before Desmond leaves we see through the right hand window and you can clearly see the Ghurkin and a taller, spiral building. That building is the Bishopsgate Tower (also called The Pinnacle). It is currently a building site and is not due for completion until 2012. This surely isn't a production error, why mock up a skyline with a building that doesn't exist yet. So, are we to assume that this all takes place much later than 'now'?

Anyway, food for thought.

[hd]

is it me or does reading this blog with black background and white letters really bad for my eyes!!!!

[Mike in the Box]

I've been reading it for three seasons, doesn't seem to hurt my izdsbfillSvGSwD OMG! I'm blind. I can't see my keyboard!

[DocWaxman]

Did anyone else see WALT (M D Kelley) in a commercial for Tyson
"Anytizers" boneless chicken wings last week during the LOST hour?
Funniest theory of the week:
"maybe Anytizers are Walt's constant."
[ http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2009/01/22/DI2009012203020.html ]
Can anyone shed light on this? Discuss. J Wood? Any thoughts? ;-)

[Scott in Philly]

@Andy HurleyI believe all the "off island" sequences are slipping back and forth between now and 3-years-from-now.  The Des-more scene was 3-years-from-now

[WeakLemonDrink]

Looking forward to this double episode. It'd be really nice if you went to town and gave us something closer to 90 minutes, though. My favourite Casts are always the epicly long ones :)

One thing I'd like to know, too, as I've been listening to an old Season 2 era theory Cast - has Jim now totally caught up with the show? He seemed to like the episode he watched way back when and I'd love to hear what he thinks of the show if he then went on to totally catch up and stick with it.

[Jonathan Scruggs]

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Looking ahead on the IMDB cast list for the next few episodes we have some real treats coming our way...namely a young Danielle and her french cohorts, as well as the yet to be revealed, inevitable splatter on the ceiling: Radzinsky, also the return of Abbaddon and Walt. Exciting!
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[Nik]

Overall I thought this episode was good. Not great, not amazing, but solid. I agree with a lot of other people about it being a lot of filler, but I'm also a sappy girl who loves the Desmond/Penny story!

Although by now it's pretty evident that Ellie = Eloise Hawking = Daniel Faraday's mother, I find it a bit weird that Daniel only faintly recongizes her. If I met my mother when she was 20 I think I'd recongize her right away, if not from looks than surely from pictures. Could there be some sort of disconnect there?

Also, I really like the theory that Penny is Charles Widmore's mother and it even makes sense with what Ben was saying to Charles when he visited him in London. However, the same cannot be with Ben as I think we all know that Ben is not Alex's legitmate father.

[Nik]

oh and also, as I think about it, the Losties have never jumped forward in time past where they were to begin with (in 2005?). Not much more to that, I just thought it was interesting.

Could it be just how the story is being played out or is it they're only able to go to points in time that have already occured?

[Steve M]

ANyone think that little baby Charlie Widmore could in fact be Charles Widmore and due to some quirky timeline that Penny is her own Grandparent?

[Jackeduplockedown]

This theory is becoming to popular

Baby Charlie is not Charles Widmore the father of Penny.

Why would he take the name Widmore anyway.

[Lorne]

Anyone think the nuclear bomb was a shoutout to The Prisoner?
Any gorilla masks hidden around?

[Chris]

Another idea that supports Widmore being Dan's father is that when Dan was chosen for the island trip he was being taken care of. His eggs weren't all in the basket. Sure he might have the best knowledge of the island but if your really counting on something being done I'm guess Widmore would have chosen option 2 instead of a mental case.

It would also make sense if Dan made his father (widmore) take care of that time coma girl after Dan messed her up. Widmore seems the type of man to cover something up rather than take responsibility for something somewhat caused by him.

[Nik]

@ Jackedup

I agree it's a bit far-fetched, but that was his mother's last name...how much of a stretch is it that he took his mother's last name and not his father's? especially in comparison to the whole theory itself?

[Jackeduplockedown]

@ Chris

Main evidence against Faraday being Widmore's son is his being sent to the Island. Widmore loves his daughter so much that he wants desperately to keep her away from it. Why would he willingly send his son on such a dangerous mission? What benefit to him is it?

@ Nik

I just think it involves to many assumptions to warrant consideration at this point. You have to assume the child ends up on the Island somehow, assume he takes his mothers name and assume he never learns of his grandfather (himself) otherwise he'd not try and keep Desmond and Penny apart and would understand their is nothing he can do to keep them apart. That's a lot of leaps for a theory that really leads us to no further explanation.

I suppose anything is possible, but this reminds me of the time everyone was convinced Locke didn't blow up the submarine, my question now is the same as then, who does it benefit and how?

[DocWaxman]

it occurs to me:
with no podcast produced on superbowl sunday,
there's a fair chance we'll also miss another
half dozen casts on various sundays this season:
daylight savings, easter, mother's day,
john's wedding (?) & honeymoon,
matt's colonic (j/k), etc.

[DocWaxman]

@ lorne:
i think the nuclear bomb could a shout-out to
the 1964 film Fail-Safe and/or the the cold war novel it's based on
(personally, i think the darlton god-head prefers a good film version
whenever available).
maybe they're just warming up the u.s. army stuff for us & we'll get
some more related material this season? maybe a soviet angle?
dare i say a time-travelling mikhail bakunin (j/k)?
anyhow, the movie was previously touched on here on lostcasts
following the S2 finale involving the swan's fail-safe mechanism.

@ andy hurley: great catch!
i'd love to see darlton address that skyline in a podcast!
really throws an unsettling monkey wrench in the works if true.
if it's an error, darlton might wanna clear things up,
not to exasperate their fans. or things may soon play out contrary
to a 2012 story arc naturally for all to see.

@ jonathan scruggs: (spoilery)
we can only wish for an actual walt-centric episode!
will we see what 'miracle' happened to abaddon in S5 flashbacks?
could he somehow influence the 'raising' of locke once again?
how else are they supposed to meet again as he suggested?
i'd also love to see the inspiration for rousseau's notations,
including the mysterious sci-fi pond of blue eternity / infinity.
and we gotta see how montand lost his arm!
as for "splatter," it would keep us on our toes if murder
was more to blame than the time-travelling sickness.
let's see some more of kelvin in his spook days too.

Waxman

[DocWaxman]

re: charles widmore = his own grandson:
we're all making darlton drool w/ satsfaction over this discussion.
now, if it's true and they don't address this in season 5,
i'll have a few choice "mosaic" tiles ready to fling at those 2!
so far this crazy theory doesn't sing to me. on the other hand,
it would give darlton (et al) a creative avenue for showcasing
some of the theoretical physics behind overcoming the pesky
"grandfather paradox" aspect of time travel. see:
[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_Paradox ].
the topic is covered ad nauseum here, along w/ "hedge's theory"
(can't go back in time "to murder hitler") which was
paraphrased by darlton in the latest clip show.

Waxman

[DocWaxman]

widmore's master manipulation

i think widmore killed ben's daughter (or sanctioned this),
knowing ben would track penny down & eventually lead him (widmore)
to the departure point/means for reaching the island once again.
consider:
widmore has evidently kept tabs on the O6 all the way to l.a.;
he knows the significance of ben returning the O6 to the island;
he knows (somehow) ben will consult his old pal ms hawking to succeed;
he knows hawking is in l.a. since he directed desmond there;
he knows / follows penny's movements as she treks to l.a.;
he knows ben will pounce on penny there, revealing his own position.
by that time, ben will have reunited & brainwashed all the O6 and
then all widmore has to do is follow them to the island.
look for sun to betray her friends at some critical point
as agreed to somehow with widmore. sounds like a great season ender.
hence the tasty taunts between ben & widmore in this once & great
exchange from 4.09 which lays the groundwork nicely:

WIDMORE: You'll never find her (penny).
That island's mine, Benjamin.
It always was. It will be again.

BEN: But you'll never find it.

WIDMORE: Then I suppose the hunt is on for both of us.

[ highlighted here:
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Rules ]

widmore baiting ben would be an awesome long con.

Waxman

[DocWaxman]

re: faraday = widmore's son

i actually get the impression that theresa spencer & her condition
is some kind of leverage that widmore is holding over faraday,
not the other way around. widmore does not easily concede anything.

although i don't think faraday is widmore's son, so far i do think
we've gotten inklings of familial relations between SOME of the
freighter-four (dan, charlotte, miles & frank).
faraday has encountered a younger ms hawking; probably his mother.
charlotte claims to have been "born" on the island; if literally
(and not spiritually or something as in ben's case), then she was
obviously born to some island inhabitant. there's speculation online
that miles is pierre chang's son; full backstory as yet untold.
this would be an interesting trend if we find out later that some
relative of frank's also had island connections too.
could this be why abaddon insisted to naomi a whole season ago
(4.02) that these 4 had to be used for the feighter mission?
maybe it HAD TO be these 4, like it HAD to be ALL the O6 returning?
were all 4 born on the island prior to "the incident" and the purge?
were their parents escapees / refugees once upon a time?
did they ALSO have to lie about their previous whereabouts?
would abaddon also have special knowledge of these events?

back to frank, and the series pilot episode:
could this be why the smoke monster killed seth norris (pilot)...
because it was frank lapidus that was expected in his place?
i suspect we'll see frank again, coptering the O6 back to the
island, and this time the smoke monster will feel appeased.
is there a relation between abaddon and the smoke monster?
lostpedia cites "abaddon" from scripture as holding
"the key of the shaft of the bottomless pit" from which
"rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace." "Matthew Abaddon"
also loosely translates as "Gift from the god of hell."
[ http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Matthew_Abaddon ]

this stuff never ends.
oh wait, it's still a nice day out. see ya's.

Waxman

[Scott in Philly]

I'm pretty sure that Frank LA-PEE-DUS is really Sun's mom.

the Jughead bomb. I think we are led to believe that it's the beginning of the swan station due to the "bury it with concrete" scenario. This makes it really easy to believe that it might NOT be b/c even when they give us a clue we can never believe it! BUT got back to jack & Sayid digging in the swan station... Sayid says "I haven't seen this much concrete since chernobyl...

I think the connection to the nuclear disaster & the Jughead bomb is too close to be coincidence.

I DO NOT think it's what causes the system failure or the containment of the space/time anomoly... I just think that the H-bomb is burried there.

[frankmorris]

@ Scott in Philly
Yeah, whatever was behind the concrete became a huge magnet when the timer ran down and before Desmond turned the fail-safe. Not the normal properties of nuclear bomb but maybe combined with it proximity to the exotic matter? (whatever that is).
Maybe the Swan was used for an entirely different reason by Dharma and was commandeered in order to set up some kind of pressure release. All the Latin that was written on the blast door map would suggest that Radzinski was an other.

[Waiting for Lost]

@Scott in Philly

I agree Lapidus is Suns Mum !

Also Jughead is buried at the Swan. Maybe the burial led to the discovery of the Swans location weirdness. The button pushing has yet to be explained and it could be nothing or something.

[Chris]

@ Jackeduplockedown

Widmore would send his son Dan to the island if he was messed up mentally from time flux stuff knowing that the island is the one place that could make him well again.

[Osbo]

Theory: Aside from the "Freighties", apparently, everyone on "Jacob's List" and a few others were born from parents from the island.

This is all just conjecture, and not any real evidence, but I like the possibilities that jump out from here.

1) Siblings and hidden siblings have been an important aspect of the show from the beginning. Who their father or mother is are also parts of it (not to mention father issues).

2) What is Christian Shepard's relationship to the Island? And how do Jack and Claire fit in?

3) Who were John Locke's biological parents? Was it really Cooper? Cooper referred to the island as hell, but did he mean it from experience?

4) Kate's real father, or Kate's mom, even. She forces her into a position.

5) Sawyer's parents left him orphaned as well. Perhaps his parents' dealings with Anthony Cooper were a bit more personal than an affair and money.

6) Sun's father is part of the conspiracy, what about the rest of them?

7) Charlie and Liam's grandfather - Dexter Straton might have more meaning.

8) Boone and Shannon have Adam Rutherford. Like Widmore and Paik, rich for some reason, assumed they always

9) Hurley's an exception, I think. But perhaps his father's disappearance had a bit more to it?

10) Cindy and the children were "on the list".

11) Walt may not be Michael's kid, but someone else's. He was one with special interest.

[Scott in Philly]

@ everyone who believes in "charlie = Charlie widmore" theory.

you are wrong.

Des & penny's son, "charlie" was a toddler & existing at the same time as adult charles widmore was speaking with Desmond face-to-face... the toddler & old man existing at the same time as the same exact person? I just don't buy it.

[Jackeduplockedown]

@ Scott In Philly

I agree but we can't totally rule it out. I do however think it warrants no further discussion until more evidence is revealed.

RE: The Bomb

Seems likely it could be buried adjacent to the Swan Hatch. Could be known or unknown to Dharma. We can't say for sure though because again the bomb pre-dates Dharma and the Swan hatch (to our knowledge) does not.

RE: Parents\The Lists

The List I think is simply Jacob\Ben deciding who can stay with Dharma and who can go. Whereas the parent connection\how they all ended up on that plane is something bigger and in all likelihood the work of Widmore\Abaddon etc.

Any Hypothesis is still nothing more then a guess, but it seems like Widmore is holding onto some hard feelings from a fallout with the Others during the early days of Ben's leadership. Somehow he was banished from the Island and now desperately wants to get back. Why? can't wait to find out!

[frankmorris]

@ Jackeduplockedown
I forgot to account for the large span of time (my nose is bleeding) between burying the bomb and Radzinski who was post Dharma purge. However the replacement system could have stemmed back to 1954. The Latin on the blast door map is probably coincidence though, you would think they would have a more sophisticated code than "what did one snowman say to the other snowman".

[Mark B]

I think Charlie Hume is not Charles Widmore. I don't think Charlie H is anything to do with anything. He's just Desmonds child. This may be an issue in itself (i.e. being Desmonds son he may have inherited some of Desmonds specialness).

However the same person can exist at the same time twice in two ocations. First up we have the bunnies from the video. And after all Locke was both at Yemis crashed plane on the top on the Pearl when Richard agve him the compass and somewhere else on the island at the same time..... or was he ?

Though if the other Losties were also jumping then Juliet must have been in New Otherton and with Sawyer and Bernard, Rose, and the log carrying guys where also in two places at once.

All that said I still think Adam and Eve (bodies in the cave) are Des and Penny. I think Des needs to go back to the island as much as anyone else.

[DocWaxman]

this is NOT spoiler information, just speculation:

based on the title of tonight's episode, which is widely
believed to be inspired by the classic french children's
story, i would like to see a meteor crash on the island.
this could tie in to the 'crater' we first saw depicted on
rousseau's maps.

Waxman

[hd]

does anyone know where i can watch lost on the internet for reee without downloading any software in the USA?
thanks

[Mike in the Box]

@ HD

your only legal option is to wait until tomorrow and watch it on abc.com

i am sure there are "alternatives," but i don't know any.

[Memnoch]

Oyy!!! ***POSSIBLE SPOILER***

Eloise Hawking is Mrs. Hawking!! Daniel named the rat after his mom! Ellie from the Others is Danielle's mom!!!

[Chris in Fort Worth]

Jin's ALIVE and Rouessou (sp?) finally gets her 'flashback'!!!!!

[Mike in the Box]

"Canton-Rainier Carpet Cleaning" on the side of Ben's van.

Canton-Rainier = anagram for "Reincarnation"

[DocWaxman]

since 5.04 has now aired on the east coast (usa)**,
let's post away, people! if you're on the west coast,
why torture yourself here & now?
sorry, just had to get that out.

** good enough for lostpedia, so why hold back?
[ http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Lostpedia:Spoiler_policy ]

Waxman

[DocWaxman]

some PRINCE references from lostpedia, below.

[ http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Search?search=prince&go=1 ]

(hearts & minds 1.13):

when discussing the hatch with locke, boone gets stir crazy.
locke relates the story of michaelangelo & the PRINCE
who asked what he was doing staring at a marble slab:
"[...] sto lavorando, I'm working.
Three years later that block of marble was the statue of David."

* * * *

(charlie refers to aaron as "turniphead"):

In the 2004 Japanese anime film Howl's Moving Castle,
the character Turniphead (who is a scarecrow) turns out
to be a missing PRINCE who was under a witch's spell.

* * * *

(in ubisoft's game PRINCE of persia):

The Sands of Time, whispers can be heard while the PRINCE is having
visions of the future happenings, similar to Desmond's flashes.

* * * *

(litrary/movie reference: the mysterious island):

Captain Nemo is revealed to be PRINCE Dakkar, of India.
Is Alvar Hanso, or perhaps Magnus Hanso, Captain Nemo,
kept alive by the Life Extension Project?
(Nemo dies "onscreen" at the end of The Mysterious Island,
and the Island blows up.)

* * * *

(not from lostpedia):

shayamalan connection?
maybe LOST's little PRINCE is some kind of 'mirror twin'?
"i see mirror twins! they're everywhere!
they don't even know they're mirror twins! ;-)

Waxman

[DocWaxman]

more PRINCE references from lostpedia (link at bottom).

really hard to dismiss this one!
(C.S. Lewis wrote the book PRINCE Caspian):

[...] which tells the story of four people coming back
to a faraway place they have been before--but is now
changed from what it once was because time in that realm
goes faster than it does in the 'real world'.
They are summoned back by the call of someone in that land,
step through time/space to return, and they
work with the inhabitants to restore it.

* * * *

(miles straume/theories):
[miles] clearly doesn't know his history on the island,
as seen in [[The Little Prince]], but is strongly
suggested as [[Pierre Chang]] child.
[miles = long lost little prince??]

* * * *

(aaron/moses comparison):
Aaron [biblical] suffered with the Israelites while Moses
was being raised as the PRINCE of Egypt. Aaron and Moses
were descendants of Levi, who was one of Jacob's sons!!

[ http://lostpedia.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=20&offset=20&ns0=1&redirs=0&search=prince ]

Waxman

[DocWaxman]

did anyone pick up any pop-up video gems from tonight's
enhanced version of 5.03?

Waxman

[DocWaxman]

"Bésixdouze" is written on a box from the Frenchies' boat wreckage.
This is also the French pronunciation for B612 ("bee six twelve").

Besides being one of the named minor planets (see wikipedia, etc),
B612 is the name of Little Prince's home planet/asteroid in the
classic French children's story. The related wikipedia article
(below) also incorporates the the number 46610 in its title.

Could 46610 be related to "The Numbers" or the Valenzetti Equation?
In the wiki artcle, B612 is noted as the "hexadecimal" (base 16)
shorthand for "46610" (written in the traditional base-10 we all use).
Linking to the "Hexadecimal" article, we find Bruce Martin's
"hexadecimal notation proposal" pictured about 1/3 of the way down.

Don't these "notations" also resemble some glyphs we've seen in LOST?
They almost look like runes. I haven't found a decent screen cap yet
for comparison. Here's the only thing I could find (in background):
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1408-699.html
Not the best samples, but these do seem more primitive
than the usual egyptian hieroglyphs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/46610_Bésixdouze

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Glyphs

Waxman

[DocWaxman]

what do you guys think of that "bésixdouze" box in general?
just another box? some kind of crazy clue?
any relation to ben's magic box metaphor?

here's another little something from lostpedia:

"In Antoine de Saint-Exupéry's novella The Little Prince,
the narrator, upon meeting the title character,
is asked to draw a sheep. After many unsuccessful attempts,
the narrator draws a box and states that 'This is only his box.
The sheep you asked for is inside.'”
[ http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_box 'Similarities in culture' section ]

also referenced in the above article are some entertaining
j.j. abrams BOX-related insights. link to video below.
box-talk starts about 4 minutes in. fun to watch.

[ http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/j_j_abrams_mystery_box.html ]

Waxman

[DocWaxman]

I know 5.02 has been discussed already,
but here's something I totally missed the first time:
Lantern / Light Beacon Logo from Ms Hawking's computer in 5.02.
Is there a related DHARMA station? Off Island?

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Unknown_station

Waxman

[Memnoch]

Cool episode tonight, but not earth-shattering. I think we've reached the point in the story, where we can put a lot of the pieces together. It wasn't predictable before the episode started, but you could feel where the episode was heading.

I have my full analysis here: http://joythrusin.blogspot.com/2009/02/lost-answers-are-finally-here-little.html

But the summary is:
1. Ellie is Daniel's mom (Established last week).
2. As much as i hate speculation with no facts, I do think it's not crazy to think Miles & Charlotte were born on the island and are Dharma descendants.
3. Sawyer and Juliet are totally gonna do it.
4. Aaron ends up growing up on the island under the name Jacob. The once and future king of the island.
5. Jack & Kate will end up as Adam & Eve.

I just wish I knew who was doing the shooting of bullets / flaming arrows. I am assuming because of the Indian Water Bottle, it's not the same group.

[hd]

SEE THE POST BELOW FROMAndy Hurley:
no that is not the Pinnacle. its tower 42 which is an old news building.

..... scene where Desmond is talking to Widmore there is a city skyline visible through the windows.

Initially I was looking at it carefully trying to work out if they had filmed it in London (from the context I'm pretty sure that's where it's meant to be). My first thought was that it looked nothing like London. Then though the left hand window we see a river that looks vaguely like the Thames.

The I saw it! Just before Desmond leaves we see through the right hand window and you can clearly see the Ghurkin and a taller, spiral building. That building is the Bishopsgate Tower (also called The Pinnacle). It is currently a building site and is not due for completion until 2012. This surely isn't a production error, why mock up a skyline with a building that doesn't exist yet. So, are we to assume that this all takes place much later than 'now'?

Anyway, food for thought.

Posted by: Andy Hurley | February 01, 2009 at 06:28 AM

[Joe]

Hey Guys... I hope you guys read this before the podcast. I think it would be important for you to talk about Ajira Airways and the theories that surround it and how it was involved in Lost ARG.

[Scott in Philly]

I was pretty dissappointed by the ending - the whole "Hi, I'm Danielle Rouseau.... THUD" landed extremely flat.... all they had to do was avoid john locke saying "hey look at this french ship wreckage - i'll bet there's some french people around." as soon as he noticed that we all knew Rouseau was in the picture somewhere...

I like the tie in of rousseau - I just wished it was actually a surprise at the end there.

[ebear]

Does anyone else think that Daniel is related, possibly the father, of Charlotte? He was on the island back in Dharma days when she would have been born. He is very protective of her, said he loved her, and she made the comment to him to "stop babying" her in this last episode.

[Scott in Philly]

This episode was not my favorite - I wasn't that thrilled with it - for 2 main reasons

1. as I mentioned before the Rouseau reveal was poorly executed & well... boring

2. am I the only person who is sick of Toddler Aaron. He's (so far) completely worthless but the writers are obligated to continue to show us brief shots of this mute child as if we forgot he was hanging around. We get it. he's around. He's part of the O6 - he probably needs to come with the rest of the gang. Just put him in daycare with someone till it's time to board the sub to the island. we don't need to see him eating breakfast, watching cartoons, sitting in a car, or doing a terrible job of making us think he's asleep. He's little more than luggage at this point.

In a show where every minute counts - I wish they wouldn't waste time helping me remember that ole turnip-head is around.

[raj from the uk]

just saw a comment that Desmond's kid "charlie" is "charles Whidmore"

I think thats making time paradox out of a molehill.

I think it's more likely that Desmond named his Son, after the man who saved his life AND brought Desmond and Penny together. Charlie. You know, ex rocker, drug addict, drowned and now dead.

Don't know if it's already been said, but just putting it out there.

[Mark B]

I thought the episode was ok -- I'd been a bit spoiled by something I saw on the abc website earlier in the day. Also I'd heard a rumour Jin was rescued by a young Danielle so I knew once we saw the stuff that Locke found with French writing on I knew what was coming -- I think even without the spoiler it was pretty telegraphed that, as someone mentions above, Danielle was coming back once we saw that scene. And then once we saw someone floating in the sea I guessed it was Jin. I wonder if Jin has been flashing in time all this time while at sea but has never known as he had no reason to suspect he'd been time jumping and had no reference. It would have been funny if he'd seen the raft and heard Micheal shouting Waaaaallllllt.

So the blond man Frenchman is Montand -- the one who lost his arm near the Black Rock. I think the actress who plays young Danielle is too young. She's meant to be 16 years older when we first meet her and the actress looks way younger than 16 years younger than the Danielle we know. Hard life living on the island I guess. Also how come Danielle did not remember Jin when she met him post-crash ? Makes no sense. This time trip thing is starting to get bit holey. I'm sure D&C have an explaination but I wish they'd voice it. Are the time travel memories suprressed somehow to protect the timeline ? Is it only special people (like Des) who can remember them ?

I'm not a big fan of the O6 side of the story and prefer the on island stuff. I'm interested in how they get back but not that much in the 'gathering of the O6' which is really speeding along thankfully. All bar Hurley are on the dock and the lawyer says he'll be out tomorrow so I guess next week it's All Aboard the Love Boat. I guessed Ben was behind the Aaron test but I was tricked by Claire's Mums appearance and thought she may be behind it after all. Only thing about that part of the story is why would she fly over from Oz to LA just to pick-up a check ? Seems somewhat odd to me. Next week could be interesting with Sun and her gun and Ben. How will Ben save his sorry arse this time ? Does he somehow know Jin is alive ?

Miles is clearly from the island (or has spent significant time there and forgotten it) yet Dan is currently unaffected by the flashes so perhaps has been there less time than Juliet who has started to be affected too. Maybe Dan is somehow immune or has never been on the island before. I think the latter. But his mother could still be Ms Hawking/Ellie the Other and he was just born off island. Ellie the Other could be Charlottes mother.

When will the real Losties start to become affected ?

Also who are the people who were in the outrigger shooting at the Losties. They can't be just the Others from 1950's because the beach camp was there and was obviously older than we'd ever seen it so they must have been in the future. Why make the mention of Vincents lead ? And what was the with the water bottle they found from the Indian Airline ? Was there another crash ? Was it just coincidence that Juliet knew the airline -- are they the Others preferred carrier ? Or is it that Juliet just knows of the airline and the other Losties just haven't heard of them.

[Chris]

not a fan of this last episode.

Jin is alive. Not a surprise.

Ben put the lawyer on kate. Not a surprise.

Danielle and her team land on the island. not a surprise.

The bleeding thing not being about having a constant? dubious

the only question from this episode i got was who was shooting at them from the other boat? and who got shot?

Suns revenge is seeming very weak. not because we know jin is alive but more that she is just coming off as crazy more than calculated.

I'm really hoping something comes out of next weeks episode because last weeks was weak but had some good points. this weeks i see as a wash.

The thing i'm not liking about this time skipping thing is that the periods of time are so short that the people who show up like Danielle and her group will be gone before anything good comes out. The end up looking more like guest appearances on fantasy island more than an interwoven plot line.

[Chris]

I was looking at the cast and remembered something. Horace the kinda hippy looking dharma dude that told Locke to find him, him meaning his dead body with the blueprint in his pocket leading to jacob's house. Well if you remember his nose started bleeding when he talked to locke and he told locke he has been dead for X long. The nose bleeding seems to say that he was flopping through time just like the losties are now and not some sort of ghost vision.

That would say the island was moved at least once more. and that at least him if not more are flopping though time with him causing things to happen.

[Jackeduplockedown]

Overall a solid episode. Some of you guys need to try harder to avoid spoilers; I agree the mentioned of "Anyone speak french" made it obvious, but we already knew it was coming eventually and I am really excited to see part of their story play out next week. I'm not sure Danielle ever met Jin in 2004 but if she did I'm guessing the explanation is related to memory loss\mild insanity brought on by the time travel she went through when she and her crew first arrived on the Island.

I still think the cure for the nose bleeding sickness is a constatnt and I am hoping beyond hope Miles is not Marvin Candles son, not sure why, but it seems like a really useless and easy connection. Hoping he's a decendent of the the Others or something more along those lines. Charlotte is clearly a former Island resident of some sort, my guess on of the kids in the Dharma classrooms a little younger then Ben Linus.

More later

[Scott in Philly]

@ Chris - I agree with you about everything. It seriously felt like the first half of any good episode... but never gave us a second half. I looked at the clock and thought "it's 9:56??? where's the rest of the episode? is this a 2 parter?"

[Scott in Philly]

PS... official lost podcast says "Charlie" is named after Charlie Pace - NOT chuck widmore... he is also NOT chuck widmore. end of discussion, I guess

[Chris in Fort Worth]

I gotta agree with Jackedup, I have avoided spoilers of any type this season and it has really paid off...Danielle AND Jin? I had no idea, and frankly it was awesome...I felt really burned last season with MIchael's return and have since decided to actively avoid reading previews or watching promos, guess what? It works! To those of you who still claim to be disappointed, you need to put aside your own notions of where this story is going and let the writers do their thing, if you've come this far you should trust them enough to just go along for the ride.

[duff]

Are the writers already breaking their own time-travel rules. In the 1st or 2nd episode of the season, Sawyer is banging on the back door of the Swan station but Des never comes. Daniel's answer for this is because Sawyer and Des hadn't met at that time, so they can't meet now.
Now, by the 4th episode we have Jin meeting Danielle 16 years before they first met and the rest of her team (whom he never met before).

Hell, I now that I think about it, they broke it last week when other 5 met Alpert's team in 1954.

What a stupid rule ... what was the point of that line?

[Mike in the Box]

@ Duff

That was Daniel's rule. For all we know, that is something he told Sawyer to keep him from talking to Desmond. Obviously Daniel spent some time in the jungle (two hours according to Sawyer). He needed to do something and possibly thought Sawyer talking to Desmond would get in the way.

[Mark B]

One thing that I'm confused about from earlier in the season is that if Daniels mother is Mrs Hawking (and Ellie the Other) and Widmore knows where she is why is he (Widmore) letting her work with Ben to help him find the island ? Given what we know about Widmore it is very unlikely that he would not keep tabs on Mrs Hawking if she is from the island so he'd know she was working with Ben. Doesn't make much sense to me. Only thing I can think is that he (Widmore) is planning on letting Hawking/Ben find the island and follow them there.

The time travel stuff is a bit odd to say the least. I'm guessing you have to be special (like Des) to remember anything that happens that didn't happen the first time around. Maybe this is a "time correcting itself" type deal. Still it needs some explaination from TPTB.

[Tahir]

Am I the only one not liking all the 'this person that persons mother/father - this person is that persons son/daughter' etc ?
I'm not talking about the discussion in here but in LOST itself.

You can get away with this type of story telling once or twice but this is getting ridiculous.

We got Jack is Claires brother and now we're guessing who are the parents of Danielle, Miles, Charlotte.

I'm loving LOST season 5, but come on Lost writers - you can do better than this.

[Scott in Philly]

@Tahir - I don't think the writer's are intending us to spend a lot of time figuring out miles, charlotte or (especially) Danielle's parentage...their just building a case for "people who've been on the island keep coming back" - WE are the ones who are obsessing about it... and we've had family relationships (especially with parents) as a key factor since almost day one - this shouldn't be anything new to us.

@Mark B - That's a really good question I hadn't thought of yet - Chuck Widmore's got eloise hawking's address & contact info in his freaking rolodex - like she some sort of long-time pal. they're probably Facebook friends at this point. so he knows what she's up to. My only thoughts are:

1. he knows & he wants people to get back to the island b/c it will help HIM find it again. if they've only got "70 hours" anyway - maybe he's fine with Ben going to the island b/c he knows it's the only way to save the world?

or

2. he knows eloise is in LA - but she is working with ben under the radar - he doesn't know that part. so he's getting played by hawking.

[Memnoch]

**Another possible spoiler**

Adam and Eve. Black and white stones. Rose and Bernard.

From the official lost podcast this week.

[DocWaxman]

No joke!
I posted something in the comments section on 2-2-09 @ 6:55pm
(link below) paraphrasing the main wikipedia article on the
Grandfather Paradox. Now that article has been altered to exclude
references & citations to some explicit theories in physics about
how to get around the grandfather paradox in time travel. I went
back to double-check things & BLOOP! Gone just like the island.
One of the items related to Hedge's Theory; the rest basically
stated that time can either: branch off into an alternate timeline,
or loop around onto itself again. Wikipedia can obviously be edited
by anyone. But the timing & subject matter affected makes me wonder.
Items were removed from w/in that article in just the last few days.
Suspicious. Fill in your own conspiracy on this.
Widmore? Darlton-Godhead? ABC? Abaddon? Jacob?!?

http://www.lostcasts.com/2009/01/get-ready-lostcasts-71-72.html#comment-6a00d8341c5c1d53ef01116841a565970c

That said, here are some other references which seem to
paint their ideas in language familiar to LOST viewers of late:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_loop
"(time) skips back like a BROKEN RECORD. When the time loop
'resets', the memories of most characters are reset ...
one or more central characters retain their memory.
[...] In a 'Physical Time Loop' ... time in that region is looped,
you could only escape it by leaving the affected area [Island].
Also, there would be an infinite number of copies of any matter
in the area, unless an object left the loop [Locke's Compass, The O6].
[...] In a 'Conscious Time Loop', everyone's consciousness
loops through time [Desmond? Jacob? Freighter-Four & Company?].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontological_paradox
"creates...a situation where [...] items have no discernible origin."
[Locke's compass, outrigger canoes, etc.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination_paradox
"whatever has happened was meant to happen."
[Hawking, 'nuff said. Faraday: "If it didn't happen, it can't happen."
Sawyer: "what's done is done."]
[Spoilery: Episode Title for 5.11 "Whatever Happened Happened"]

Have a peek online before...BLOOP!!!

Waxman

[treetop]

"I'm only here for the bear" for those of us from UK that can remember that series of adverts. I'm only here for that rack.