This latest podcast focuses on season 5, episode 6 of LOST, 316. Join Robert, Matt and John as we discuss mixed reactions to the episode, speculation about events that led up to the island return, the new lamp post station, Ben's bloody phonecall, our losties trading places with one another as "proxies" and much more.
Links related to the podcast:
Lostpedia on 316
Island photo in the Lamp Post
Wikipedia on The Wilhelm scream
Wikipedia on James Joyce's Ulysses
See you next week! Stay LOST!
You link to the lamp post does not work.
Here is another
http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2009/02/episode-5x06-316-lamp-post.html
Posted by: mark | February 22, 2009 at 03:52 PM
Awesome work guys, thanks for getting it out early today!
http://www.connorclements.tv
Posted by: connor | February 22, 2009 at 04:00 PM
Thanks for the post. Afew thoughts:
1) About them not brining useful things on the plane...Kate does ask Jack why he isn't packing better shoes.
2) Also I didn't mind Desmond freaking out because I read it as him recognizing Ms. Hawkings and that being the final straw that the island, Widmore, Faraday and Ms Hawkings were just using him as a pawn. He never really had a connection with Faraday so he could just dismiss his plea to Desmond for help once he sees who his mother is (an evil woman who wasted years of his life). He has Penny and a son now so he doesn't need to confront these people he just needs to leave.
3) I also don't think Ben is the protector of the island since he lied about what Jacob told him and Locke to do (as Christian told John). I think Ben is messing up what the island wants so he can get back to the island for himself.
4) About the proxy talk..when you asked if there were proxies from the 50s (a con man, a musician etc) If you remember the French scientists had instruments (like Charlie like Hurley)
5) I also don't think it was John's suicide note. If you recall Sayid tells Hurely John is dead "they say it was a suicide" I think Ben killed John in order to be John's proxy back to the island. Maybe John write the note to Jack but not as his final suicide note.
Posted by: Andrew | February 22, 2009 at 04:40 PM
Ugh. This podcast was awful. Why did Robert have to be back?
Just kidding. Good work! Pretty thorough for such a straightforward episode. Not many questions were brought up. I was expecting this one to be shorter than it was. So, nice work.
Though I kind of wish you mentioned that Ray Shepard said something like "Next time I run away to somewhere they'll never find me." I'm fairly sure he meant the island. But maybe I'm wrong.
And I just realized, this proxy business... The French expedition had both a violinist AND a pregnant woman. Maybe you're on to something...
Posted by: MisterMingo | February 22, 2009 at 07:37 PM
You yanks sound hilarious when you say emu...
Posted by: West Sayid | February 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM
@West Sayid
You should hear them say aluminium
Posted by: Mark B | February 22, 2009 at 11:26 PM
That was my audio comment! Thanks for playing it.
My main annoyance was "recreating the original flight" because I felt they could have referenced the pilot without stating it so blatantly. They could have nodded to the first episode in more subtle and creative ways, and this episode came off as shoddy storytelling. I agree with the idea that Lost has maybe been dumbing things down lately, especially in 316.
I did not think, however, about how the Frenchies had instruments and a pregnant lady. If the proxies are a recurring theme for EVERY group visiting the island, I will take back any and every criticism I had.
Posted by: Sobaika | February 23, 2009 at 07:22 AM
Hi my name is liam listened to around 15 of your podcast all very good, sometime you make excellent points and other times oops moments. Just have to let you know i downloaded the previous 2 podcasts and the quality was awful for some reason using windows media player and nokia n95 to listen to them, would love to maybe call in someday and leave a comment or question to you or relating to podcast. Also was wondering if video podcasts will be available in the future and also if you guys would put a picture up of you 3 and maybe matt jones and brian too.
Love podcasts from Ireland defo younumber one fan.
Posted by: Liam | February 23, 2009 at 10:38 AM
You missed one literary reference, Hurley was reading the comic (graphic novel for the highbrow) 'Y the Last Man' in spanish.
Posted by: chris in oly | February 23, 2009 at 05:22 PM
Written by Brian K. Vaughn - a writer on Lost.
Posted by: Sobaika | February 23, 2009 at 07:02 PM
Haha, I had forgotten that Brian K. Vaughn also wrote for the show. The show is plugging his comic, kinda nice!
But after listening to the Podcast with proxy disussion here is my My Proxy Theory:
The proxy theory makes a lot of sense, given Ben’s comment to Widmore that he had broken the rules. This implies there are rules of combat between the proxies.
The white/black theme is pretty consistent throughout the show:
Christian Sheppard Versus Abbadon
I think that these two represent the main players, working to control/represent Jacob. While we do not know the role of Christian or Abbadon, we can guess they are not working together. It seems reasonable that Abbadon and Christian are in competation for the grace of Jacob – who asked to be helped but has never been able to talk directly to Locke since.
Smokey the Monster:
We have seen the black smoke monster who grabbed and killed a bunch of people, and then went face to face with Echo. We have seen the lighter colored smoke monster who went after Locke and tried to drag him into the ground. So there appear to be two agents of the island in Smokey.
Others and ‘Nother Others (‘Nothers)
We still have the glimpse of the dirty ragged, backwards walking others with the Teddy Bear when Echo, Jin, and Michael(?) were walking through the jungle. These still have not been explained.
So I would propose there are Others consisting of:
Black smokey
Christian Sheppard (still don’t trust him)
Richard Alpert
Juliet and her latin speaking gang
Ben (although he does not appear to be a team player)
I would then propose that the ‘Nothers consist of:
White Smokey
Abbadon
Creep Backwards walking forest people
Frieghties…well I guess they don’t count too much anymore.
Widmore
There are a few people I don’t know where to place:
Eloise Hawkings
I would figure Desmond is trying to be a free agent, after being used by both Widmore and Hawkings.
Enjoy (I also posted this on the FanForum)
Posted by: chris in oly | February 23, 2009 at 07:24 PM
I know that the "white smoke monster" theory has been thrown around since Locke described his experience "looking into the eye of the island." That being said, do we have ANY other evidence to support the theory that there are two smoke monsters? Isn't it possible that John underwent the same experience that Eko did when Smokey scanned him and to John, that experience was the bright light he saw?
Posted by: Biolite | February 23, 2009 at 08:06 PM
Chris In Oly,
The Barefoot Others have been explained away as part of our main Others:
*Ben's people, the Others, dressed in rags to hide their access to modern and advanced technology from the losties.
*Everyone the Barefoot Others took are now living amongst Ben's Others as demonstarted in "Stranger In A Strange Land".
Posted by: LeChuck | February 24, 2009 at 12:00 AM
Hello LeChuck-
We know that Ben's Others dressed up and took the kids.
However, we never saw the creepy backwards walking others in Ben's camp.
I don't think we know the group of creepy backwards walking people that they saw in the forest were actually part of Bens group.
Posted by: chris in oly | February 24, 2009 at 01:58 AM
Ben's Sunday school lesson was okay, It helped establish Jack as the new John, being manipulated by Ben. they just shouldn't have shown the painting in the previous episode. it had already been screen capped and the symbolism was obvious.
Posted by: frankmorris | February 24, 2009 at 04:04 AM
So 316 has mixed emotions attached to it, some love it some hate it, very bipolar. Possibly the most bipolar epi ever.
What surprises me is that it was written by D&C who have written some of the best episodes .... Deus Ex Machina and Exodus from S1, S2's The Other 48 Days, 23rd Psalm, One of Them, Lockdown, ?, and Live Together Die Alone, then in S3 we had Enter 77, The Brig, and Through the Looking Glass. Last season we had Beginning of the End, The Constant and No Place Like Home. Their only other offering this season has been Because You Left.
They did also write I Do however so it's not all good.
They also wrote this weeks episode and said in the Official podcast that the episodes were switched round. Hopefully we'll understand more after Life and Death .... perhaps they were wrong switching them, though I think 316 would be "below par" in any event.
Posted by: Mark B | February 24, 2009 at 05:48 AM
It was pretty lame by Lost standards. Too much telling from Mrs Hawkings, a character that is pretty sketchy anyway. I found little things annoying: (1) wandering downstairs in the church and finding a hatch with one of those turn the wheel door handles, (2) actors struggling to know how to look as Hawkings gives her speech (shades of the famous ergo speech in the last Matrix film), (3) Ben appearing at the door of the plane with what was obviously a big room behind him (it just didn't look like one of those gantries), (4)the lack of detail or tension as they headed off on the flight, (5) shaved Lapidus's ambivalence to their presence on the plane. It was all just a tad surreal, but without the defining touches of the surreal. The nett effect was that it felt limp and rushed and a bit cheap. Returning to the island was always something I expected to be a bigger deal - if not on the scale of the pilot episode, at least a bit more dramatic than shaky camera, flash of light, wake up in the jungle.
Rant over. I'm sure they'll get it back on track.
Posted by: Hamish Thompson | February 24, 2009 at 06:58 AM
Hi guys,
Loving your podcasts again this season - thanks for keeping it going!
One thing I noticed in 316 that you didn't speak about (and may have been mentioned in the comments above - I haven't read them) was the story about Jack's father's shoes. You kinda touched on it, but you didn't mention it. If you remember way back in season one, episode one (I think), Jack wakes up in the jungle and there are these white sneakers hanging near him. In the commentary for this scene (or in some DVD extra) it is mentioned that we should remember these sneakers - they are important. Now, in 316, we hear the story about how Jack put his father in white sneakers instead of nice shoes for his transport and burial. I'm not sure yet why this is important, but it certainly seems worth remembering. If nothing else, it is further demonstration of how the show's creators really had all of this - even the seemingly inconsequential details - worked out from the beginning. Pretty cool.
Posted by: Kristin | February 24, 2009 at 08:37 PM
I like the idea I heard that 815 was a proxy for a previous crash. If Christian is back alive on the island then he would be the old Locke maybe implying he (Christian) turned the wheel at some point to hide the island and had to die to get at least Jack on 815. The more I think about it the more I think that the Sheppard family are key to one side of the islands past. I think Ray (Jack Granddad) may have been on the island at some stage.
I am concerned about the whole 'how did Jack etc. get physically onto the island from 35,000ft' and the 'where is the plane' problem. If they just disappeared from the plane then what explanation is given for them vanishing unless the timeline is rewritten and they never got on the plane as they were always on the island. The other thing is perhaps the plane did crash but somehow the plane crashed in 2007/8 but the O5+Ben(+others ?) from the plane were thrown into the past in Dharma times. This may make the shooting in the canoe scene make sense as the people in the other canoe are different survivors from 316 who are surviving on the island in the future.
Also I have no idea what owning/controlling the island is good for. All these people are fighting over it but we don't really have any idea what it can do. Is it just a spiritual place (like say Jerusalem) that they fight over just because they always have and they all think they own for different valid reasons ?
Posted by: Mark B | February 24, 2009 at 10:39 PM
I think Christian had left the Island wanted to get back; I think he unknowingly ended up back their after his death via the crash. The Island it seems, was not done with him.
Seems very likely Christian spent some previous time on the Island, my guess is he too wanted to get back, maybe this led to his break down in Australia. We know it's not his first visit to the continent. Perhaps it was Australia that was the original point of departure to the Island.
RE: Barefoot Others
I still think there are a lot of clues from season one that suggest two sets of others.
1. The Others walking through the jungle mentioned here in the comments section viewed by Eko, Jim etc from hiding.
2. The tail section members taken the first night before Ben's camp had gathered information from their plant Goodwin.
3. The disguises worn by the others; if no one knows you exist, who are you disguising yourself from?
All of these could be explained away, but count me among those who hope to find that their are another group of others yet to be revealed and that maybe, just maybe, they not Widmore, not Ben and not our Losties are the truly great Good or Evil in this show.
Posted by: Jackeduplockedown | February 25, 2009 at 12:23 AM
Tonights ep is going to rock go to youtube and type in sneak peeks and you will see 3 of them not going to say what they are about but very good!!!
Posted by: Liam | February 25, 2009 at 06:49 AM
Re: the importance of 316
I think the title of the episode is important not just to the Ajira flight, and not just because the episode aired on the day when only 316 days were left in our year. The importance of the title is specific to the "suicide note." http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/879e68a2122ee72d343411ed3024f0e4
When considering that John is presumed to have written the note, we must also consider the Biblical reference: John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
The importance is John's note simply saying "I wish you had believed me."
There is significant allusion to salvation and redemption being attainable IF they had only believed John from the beginning.
I think all of this falls into a previous post I made regarding John's role as "Christ-figure". When his body is "resurrected" on the island, and he brings peace to that place, we will see his ministry come full circle.
Posted by: Mike in the Box | February 25, 2009 at 08:02 AM
How was Tom (the bearded guy who kidnapped Walt on the boat in season one) able to get off the island and on again, but Ben has to go to all this trouble to get back on the island?
Remember when Tom went to New York to tell Michael he had to get on the freighter...then he went back to the island himself...?
(Or am I getting something wrong?)
Posted by: BlackEyedDog | February 25, 2009 at 12:30 PM
To maybe answer my own question above...is it because the island moved? I guess that must be it.
Posted by: BlackEyedDog | February 25, 2009 at 12:39 PM
Hi Guys, Great Pod cast as always. Thanks for getting it out early. I was wondering and please feel free to flame my ideas here but...
Could the same "Set" of people continually going to and from the Island? Meaning is Ray/Christian/Jack etc. always going to the island wanting to get off and then going back? We don't know about Ray. But we know Christian is back on the Island (this is assuming that he has been there before) and now Jack is back on. We know that the events that happen due to the crash of Flight 815 HAVE to happen because Jin saves Danielle from the smoke monsters temple. And Faraday speaks to Charlotte. (Not 815 but..) This could also explain why sometimes so few questions were asked. They actually already knew the answer, either by time travel or by previous "Life" experience.
Another thought that I was pondering was what are the consequences of not having the crash exactly recreated? Ms. Hawkins seemed very concerned about this 2 episodes ago but now it's like Oh Well. Considering we seem to be missing a few pieces. There didn't seem to be anyone in a wheelchair (Not shown yet anyway) Hurley has taken Charlies place so where is our Lottery winner.
Anyway thanks guys and Looking forward to tonight's episode and this weekends Podcast.
Posted by: R Lost | February 25, 2009 at 10:37 PM
Hi All. Some interesting tidbits in this LA Times Article. It refers to Miles being Pierre Chengs son and Faraday as Widmores son. Placing a link here. Let me know if it doesn't work. http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-lost-mystery-people-pg,0,976653.photogallery?1
Posted by: R Lost | February 25, 2009 at 11:11 PM
Hello BlackEyedDog
Your ask: "How was Tom (the bearded guy who kidnapped Walt on the boat in season one) able to get off the island and on again, but Ben has to go to all this trouble to get back on the island?"
The station 'Looking Glass' supposed sent a signal that allowed the sub to find the island and get people in and out. We saw in that time period Alpert and Ethan get on and off as well.
So I guess the sub followed a specific signal to the looking glass, and then sailed to the Others home base. The looking glass also scrambled everything else to prevent uninvited people from tracking the island I believe.
So now, the only way off the island is the crazy wheel in a cave.
Posted by: chris in oly | February 26, 2009 at 12:25 PM
I don't know if anyone has said/thought this, but I believe that the original LOSTies somehow "flashed" out of the plane and entered the island circa 1960, while the other passengers of Ajira 316 crashed on the island circa 2008-9
Posted by: Mike in the Box | February 26, 2009 at 06:04 PM
Hello,
Did anyone notice that the plane they were taking from LAX to Guam was a 737? A 737 does not have the range to fly all the way to Guam. When I first saw it take off I thought "that will get them to the middle of the Pacific" . Also, the interior of the plane was not a 737.
Posted by: bjubb | March 02, 2009 at 02:20 PM
I dont know if this was mentioned already and if it was I apologize. But I feel that it was right for Ben To Kill Locke - because Locke had to die to save everyone and return to the island. BUT if he killed himself he (Locke) cold never return - becuase suicide is the ultimate sin and the Island would not welcome him back.(im viewing the island as heaven and according to catholic faith if you commit suicide you do not enter heaven - or so im told) therefore - Locke had to Die and Ben had to kill him.
Posted by: Rebecca | March 22, 2009 at 02:31 AM
Sorry posted above comment - one eppy too soon!
Posted by: Rebecca | March 22, 2009 at 02:43 AM
could it be possible??? with all the time travel - that Penny and Desmonds son Charlie - is the ACTUAL Charlie that was in seasons past? (something could have happened that their baby was adopted???) Just a crazy LOST thought.
Posted by: Rebecca | March 22, 2009 at 03:12 AM