Get Ready: Season 5 Finale Cast

Season 5 of LOST is over with the airing of The Incident last night. Join Robert, Matt and John this weekend as we podcast on the season 5 finale, and speculate about what's to come. Leave your comments for the cast here!

Comments

[Carlos]

Jacob and man #2 are good/evil(God/Satan?). All major camps of the show are the social/religious/economic forces we live with. The Dharma project(well meaning yet somewhat unethical science). The others(religious fundamentalists). Christian/Walt/Miles(angels/prophets/mediums). Whitmore(rampant Capitalism). The Losties(us, average people being forced to pick a side).

[Bryan]

Can't wait for Sunday's Podcast. Last nights episode reminded me of the Season 1 finale. There was plenty of mysteries, science, faith and now a 8 month wait to find out what happened.

Stay Lost

[Eve STephens]

Does anyone else see any similarities between Lost and Ayn Rand's novels "Atlas Shrugged" and "The Fountainhead"?
Eve

[Mike Daul]

So it seems the dude from deadwood (the anti-jacob) is the guy who was trapped in the cabin. He's the one who takes the form of all of the people who've died on the island (remi, christian, ben's daughter, etc) and he's the one who steered Locke to bring everyone back to the island (remember christian down in the cave with the time wheel and whatnot). I suppose that he's the smoke monster, or at least controls the smoke monster. I also suspect that Jacob somehow wanted Ben to kill him [some clear judeo-christian themes going on there; cain & abel, romulus and remus, etc].

I think Miles was absolutely correct that the incident was indeed caused by the losties. I'm still curious about how/when Richard will see them all die.

Much of the episode bothered me - especially the stupidity of Juliette changing her mind because of the way sawyer looked at Kate?!? I thought the shoot-out at the end was just awful - really poorly edited. I really liked the flash of white ending and the inverting of the logo/background.

[Chris in Ohio]

I had issues with kate being the reason for everyone wanting things to never have happened. She is nice and all but come on.

I also suspect that Jacob knew/wanted to be killed. I suspect that he wants the other guy blocke/smokey/easu to see the value to life and become good.

FYI according to lostpedia

"What lies in the shadow of the statue," is Jacob, or, as Richard put it in Latin, "He who will protect us."

Also keep in mind. though the nuke went off nothing in the past has changed. Miles was right. They are what caused the incident not what stops it. We have seen scenes from the future that have yet to happen meaning that everything that has happened in this episode was supposed to. I'm referring to the shootout in the boats when they were flopping around time.

[oddjob]

I was disappointed in finale. I don't like where the show is going.

[goldfinger]

what a great ending. tarewet is the statue. you can totally tell by the mouth.

[liam neville]

Great acting skills by mark pellegrino, he was cool calm and collective, he knows everything that was going to happen and knows what will happen, he says ben has a choie to kill him, he knew that ben would kill him, he knew that hurley would get on the flight he knows that locke wasnt locke, i agree with mike daul he definately takes the manifestation of people maybe even vicent and is or is in control with the smoke monstr, it was intresting that richard says jacob made him never age to punish richard for previous sins he had comitted, the show is going strong in a new direction which is great intresting more mythology is coming. My prediction for the opener for the season 6 ep 1 would be we see the blackrock land on the island and introduced to hanso's grandfather, maybe even the twist of that the losties are on the ship or some madness, it doesnt make sense yet how the boat ended up in the middle of the jungle a bit mad. I wanna see more jacob now, more evil locke, walt smoke christian mythology just brilliant show i watched it live from ireland last night it was awesome well worth being up till 6 in the morning lol. We will see more dead people lol comic con will be awesome too, i think there will be negative criticism to this episode but it showed how the shows climax is getting better and better each season i will be a fan to the end and think the show may go on longer then the last season because of popularity.

[Osbo]

That's the point - the Losties didn't cause the incident. The Bomb never detonated. Everything happened as it would have happened -

Until...

Boom.

My guess is Juliette is one of the people not tied to time and space, as a former Other. This made her a variable.

That's another point - the valenzetti equation is a bunch of variables, not constants. And one of the "numbers" appears to be different - 3 makes a ton of appearances this season (most notably - 316)

[Andrew]

Great first hour...loved the opening. But I am sorely disappointed in the death of Juliet, mainly because it seems to only serve the Sawyer and Kate love story which feels overplayed. Moreover, Juliet is one of the most complex characters on the show and she deserved a more thought out death (hell even a heroic one where she sacrifices herself to save Kate--if we must push that storyline), or where I really thought it was headed (and someone else in an earlier post predicted) in a Juliet-centric episode where she dies in childbirth in front of a younger Ben. Outside of the fictional world of Lost...the show itself will loose one of its best actors in Elizabeth Mitchell. (Watch her first 2 centered episodes where she goes from the cold, bad ass on-island Other to the sweet, meek, pre-island researcher; she plays both sides so convincingly with amazing range while creating a continuity in the character).

[Andy]

@Goldfinger: Tarewet actually doesn't look much like the statue. While she does have the head of a crocodile, she has the fat body of a hippo, and the four legs of a lioness. The Egyptian God Sobek is pretty much identical to the statue, and his characteristics pretty closely match those of Jacob.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sobek

[Chris in Ohio]

i have seen several people say the statue is taweret, but that doesn't look like a hippo body to me. However i can see a much closer resemblance in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sobek in both looks and duties.

[Rok]

Never fails... you guys always start another comment thread minutes after I post a comment in the last one. Well, thanks to the wonders of copy/paste:

------------------------------------

Had a bleary-eyed discussion with my wife about this on the drive into work this morning, and I get the impression that Jacob and what's-his-face from the beginning of the episode are the personifications of free will and destiny. Two sides of the same coin, seemingly at odds, but must exist at all times.

On the one hand, Jacob is helpful, but always trying to remind people they have a choice in the road they take (reminding Kate she doesn't have to steal, reminding Hurley he doesn't have to get on the plane, reminding Ben he doesn't have to kill him). If I had to guess, he's the "bright light" being that appeard to Locke ages ago in Season 1 and to which Locke alluded to verbally in (I think) Season 2.

On the other hand, I am now 99% convinced that the other man is the Dark Smoke monster, and he is also this new "dark Locke" roaming around (the "loophole" is that he finally found a form he could adopt in which everyone would listen to unconditionally and allow him to kill Jacob, too). Ben's confrontation with his daughter/monster happened conveniently outside of Dark Locke's presence. I also remember way back when Eko confronted his brother and basically told him to go piss up a rope, that's when the Smoke Monster killed him. He broke from the destiny that he should have followed and exerted free will enough to break free from it. At which point, the Monster had to kill him to get him out of the way. The only person, then, who has broken from their destined track and still gotten away with it, the path that they should have followed given everything else up until that point, is Desmond when he turned that key. (Addendum since my last post: technically, now, so has Juliet, though if they somehow have her survive a hydrogen bomb and ground zero...)

Pursuing this line of thought, the Monster's ability to adopt forms is to influence people to continue down those pre-defined roads to the bitter end. He is the Christian Sheppard we've seen, influencing both Locke and Jack to pursue a path that both continues the time loop and gets him a host in which he can inhabit. It was never Jacob in that cabin Ben went to. It was this other being, and one would assume the ash ring was to keep him there but at some point, the ring was broken.

Still not sure if this Dark Jacob was the Walt "apparitions" we saw, or if that was actually Walt projecting somehow. Those early days when Walt spoke backwards may have been the Smoke Monster still working out how to appear to these folks. And if we follow this line of reasoning, and the fact that Jacob was at the statue "for a very long time", then when Christian "spoke on behalf of Jacob" at the cabin in the woods to tell him how to move the island, that was a total lie to get Locke to start events in motion (i.e. moving the island) that would get us to the present day.

Apparently, both Dark Locke and Jacob can interact with the real world, but they can't seem to come in contact with each other. They have to influence others to do so. And they certainly cannot kill each other. That drawing on the temple wall where Ben meets the Smoke Monster seemed to have the Smoke Monster and the statue god facing each other. In conversation or confrontation?

Now another question: who exactly is this third group? Certainly, they follow Jacob from way back, but have no association with The Others as we have known them. Side note: I gotta say, I like Lapidus more and more every time we see him. He reminds me of some old-school 70's tough guy, and a good contrast to the other characters we've had on the island. (Addendum since my last post: had Lapidus ever met Locke? I can't recall them ever crossing paths, and if so, how would he know the significance of who Locke was? I could be mistaken, though...)

My thoughts might not be the most cohesive, but it's still pretty early in the a.m., so maybe I'l have more later.

Stay Lost.

P.S. Hey, Jacob, when you're talking to someone who's holding a knife and says "what about me?", you probably don't want tor espond with "what ABOUT you?"

[Rok]

Also, I think I will really enjoy this Dark Locke reboot of the character. I think Terry O'Quinn had wrung about as much as he could from the character, but this turn will allow him to flex his acting muscles in the other direction. I'm looking forward to it.

And Ben, I'm sorry, but you are so dead before the end of the series. You'll probably die in a sacrifice to atone for all the bad you've caused (rightly or wrongly -- implicitly, Jacob is saying "quit you're damned whining about how your father never cared about you and move on. YOU killed him. YOU assisted in The Purge. YOU caused the death of your daughter. YOU killed a good man in Locke. YOU killed Jacob -- or well, he seems to have), but you will be dead nonetheless.

[Sobaika]

A FANTASTIC EPISODE! Maybe not what we were expecting cliffhanger-wise, but it was pretty baller.

RANDOM THOUGHTS:

- Jacob and Nameless illustrate the good vs. evil/black vs. white battle that show has hinted at since the beginning. Their beginning conversation showed their continuous struggle in watching new groups come to the island, struggle for leadership, and ultimately self destruct. Our Losties were just another set of players on their giant chessboard aka The Island.

- Nameless needs a 'loophole' in order to kill Jacob. Are they bound by the same rules Ben and Charles are?

- The statue seems to be that of Egyptian deity Tarewet. Tarewet is said to mate with, who else, the god of EVIL.

- Jacob went to visit each of the characters (Jack, Kate, Sun/Jin, Hurley, Ilana, Locke) and seemed to set them on their path's to the island. He also made a point to touch each of them - significance?

- We now know that Locke = Nameless, and somehow this provdided the loophole. Was Nameless also Christian Shepherd? Do we all still think the host of dead characters on the island (Yemi, Alex, etc.) were really Smokey? Alex/Smokey told Ben to do what John Locke said, did it really mean Nameless? Is Smokey an agent of Nameless? For what it's worth, I think that Christian=Nameless, everything else was Smokey. Why? Christian and Locke have a lot in common - they both died off island, had their bodies brought to the island, were not buried, and are wearing the same shoes.

- I do not believe Locke was ever 'special' or the new leader. Richard thought so because Locke went back in time and TOLD him he was special. We now know even Richard was being duped by Nameless/Locke. Prior to this season, Locke was only guided by hallucinations and dreams and the vague belief that his is their leader. Looks like poor Locke was duped one final time.

- JULIET! I cannot believe they introduced the most functional relationship in Lost's history just to destroy it episodes later. She was a brilliant actress, and in this episode elevated the ridiculous lines she was given ("Stop Jack, "Help Jack", "You don't love me wahhhhhhhhhhh") Props to Elizabeth Mitchell and Josh Halloway for selling their relationship and selling their final scenes.

- I don't think Jacob wasn't the guy in the cabin who said "Help me." According to Ilana, Jacob hasn't been there in a while. My theory is that Nameless was in the cabin, and began this entire downward spiral.

- Remember the last time we saw the Swan implode? Everyone in it survived, was blasted off into different directions, and Desmond became "unstuck" in time. I predict that the H-Bomb detonation + magical magnetic properties send all of our Losties into present day. Juliet will die from her wounds. It also doesn't look to good for Sayid, which is sad, he's a fantastic character portrayed by one of the show's better actors.

STAY LOST!

[Sobaika]

Also - Michael Emerson confirmed to TV Guide that he believes the statue to be Taweret. That, along with the hippo head and ideology behind Taweret allow me to think that it is the statue.

I also think that Miles was right - they caused the incident. Not only is it logical, but the episode was CALLED 'The Incident."

[Jay Queper]

I'm not so sure the losties "caused" the incident. I think the incident is part of the island's history and was caused by the drilling, as it "always" has. The drilling broke through the electromagnetic properties, the equipment was sucked into the hole, Chang's arm was crushed... all as we have seen it happen before. Somehow Dharma had contained it, built the Swan, and Radzinski had to deal with his egomaniacal consequences. The fact that the bomb did not detonate immediately allowed the incident to happen as per destiny.

Now bring in the variable-Juliet being sucked in and then detonating the bomb. Seems that Faraday's theory will indeed work (otherwise, really, why even bother going through the whole storyline). That is what will now change the course of what happens DURING the incident, not what CAUSES the incident. This will likely cause a whole new chain of events that will be different from the past we know. The question now being, if the Swan does not get built, Desmond does not end up there, hence he won't "not push the button", hence flight 815 does not crash.

This appears to be the carefully crafted scenario brought about by Jacob's nemesis from the show opener. And indeed, it does appear that Locke's "special" quality is that he's so wanting to be someone special that he gets conned by Ben and Jacob's nemesis and, in dying, gives the nemesis a vehicle to put his plans in motion and kill Jacob.

The big question is where do we go from here? Holding on to the possibility that we see Juliet again since, in dying she may actually change her history and never end up in the island in the first place. That's enough to give you a headache.

By the way, I love Rok's theory about Jacob and his nemesis being the personification of free will and destiny! Isn't that what we've been told all along!

Always look forward to your podcast! Stay Lost!

[monika]

oh my god! i am still processing this great two hours of television. and i absolutely loved new music theme by giacchino!after all those years we can finally start to put pieces of lost all together. its just getting better and better.

[Lorne]

I haven’t read all the comments, and I apologize if I’m re-iterating, I'm wondering if the writers might be using one of the oldest plots around - Love conquers all.
In a battle of Good vs. Evil, it’s usually the power of love that tips the balance towards good, and surprises evil that humans can harness that emotion into power. The most recent example for me is Harry Potter, and watching Juliet’s sacrifice, and the para-love-agram, I think it will be a driving force in Season 6, including love between mother/father and children.

[Lucidlife]

@Eve

"Does anyone else see any similarities between Lost and Ayn Rand's novels "Atlas Shrugged" and "The Fountainhead"?
Eve"

TPTB definitely take from a lot of sources, and Sawyer was reading 'Atlas Shrugged', so it's probably safe to say there's some reference to the queen of objectivist doldrums.

http://www.cauthon.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/sawyer2.jpg

[Lucidlife]

*edit* Sawyer is obviously reading the Fountainhead. oops!

[LeChuck]

I think they are both named Jacob, two sides of the same coin... So the "Bad Jacob" was pretending to be Christian Sheppard when he brought Locke to the Donkey Wheel. It was at that time that the idea that Locke had to die to save the Island was planted. We saw in "Follow the Leader" that it was Locke who told Alpert to tell time-travelling Locke that he'd need to die. Oddly enough both Locke and Richard learned of the death idea from each other, but it was always Christian who came up with the idea.

Maybe Bad Jacob can only mascarade as a dead person.

Good Jacob meant for Ben to kill him. He knew it would happen and thus enginered the fates of our Losties. Perhaps Jacob visited them in his flashbacks after his own death. Afterall only fools are slaves to time and space...

[Jon Stephenson]

How poetic was it that the great manipulator (Ben) gets duped by someone appearing as the person who has been duped more than anyone else on the show.

As far as the Sobek vs Tawaret arguement goes:

I know the statue doesnt fit classic depictions of Tawaret, but the head does not look like Sobek to me. Particularly the ears and roundness of the statues features.

If you look beyond the appearence to the roles of the two dieties, I would think that Tarewet would make sense due to her connection to fertility and motherhood.

So if this is Tawaret, could the destruction of the statue of the goddess of motherhood have something to do with the inability of women to now give birth on the island? It is clear that before the destruction of the statue this wasnt an issue, Faraday and Miles were most likely both born and conceived there.

[Jon Stephenson]

I've attached a link to a description of Tawaret. I think the head on the middle picture is very close to the statue. It even has the same silly hat.

http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/gods/explore/main.html

[Bill]

Didn't the Losties prevent the incident so that the hatch will never have been built and their plane never have landed on the island? Therefore Locke(or his likeness) couldn't be used to kill Jacob.