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« LOSTCasts 78: Follow the Leader | Main | LOSTCasts 79: The Incident »

Comments

Carlos

Jacob and man #2 are good/evil(God/Satan?). All major camps of the show are the social/religious/economic forces we live with. The Dharma project(well meaning yet somewhat unethical science). The others(religious fundamentalists). Christian/Walt/Miles(angels/prophets/mediums). Whitmore(rampant Capitalism). The Losties(us, average people being forced to pick a side).

Bryan

Can't wait for Sunday's Podcast. Last nights episode reminded me of the Season 1 finale. There was plenty of mysteries, science, faith and now a 8 month wait to find out what happened.

Stay Lost

Eve STephens

Does anyone else see any similarities between Lost and Ayn Rand's novels "Atlas Shrugged" and "The Fountainhead"?
Eve

Mike Daul

So it seems the dude from deadwood (the anti-jacob) is the guy who was trapped in the cabin. He's the one who takes the form of all of the people who've died on the island (remi, christian, ben's daughter, etc) and he's the one who steered Locke to bring everyone back to the island (remember christian down in the cave with the time wheel and whatnot). I suppose that he's the smoke monster, or at least controls the smoke monster. I also suspect that Jacob somehow wanted Ben to kill him [some clear judeo-christian themes going on there; cain & abel, romulus and remus, etc].

I think Miles was absolutely correct that the incident was indeed caused by the losties. I'm still curious about how/when Richard will see them all die.

Much of the episode bothered me - especially the stupidity of Juliette changing her mind because of the way sawyer looked at Kate?!? I thought the shoot-out at the end was just awful - really poorly edited. I really liked the flash of white ending and the inverting of the logo/background.

Chris in Ohio

I had issues with kate being the reason for everyone wanting things to never have happened. She is nice and all but come on.

I also suspect that Jacob knew/wanted to be killed. I suspect that he wants the other guy blocke/smokey/easu to see the value to life and become good.

FYI according to lostpedia

"What lies in the shadow of the statue," is Jacob, or, as Richard put it in Latin, "He who will protect us."

Also keep in mind. though the nuke went off nothing in the past has changed. Miles was right. They are what caused the incident not what stops it. We have seen scenes from the future that have yet to happen meaning that everything that has happened in this episode was supposed to. I'm referring to the shootout in the boats when they were flopping around time.

oddjob

I was disappointed in finale. I don't like where the show is going.

goldfinger

what a great ending. tarewet is the statue. you can totally tell by the mouth.

liam neville

Great acting skills by mark pellegrino, he was cool calm and collective, he knows everything that was going to happen and knows what will happen, he says ben has a choie to kill him, he knew that ben would kill him, he knew that hurley would get on the flight he knows that locke wasnt locke, i agree with mike daul he definately takes the manifestation of people maybe even vicent and is or is in control with the smoke monstr, it was intresting that richard says jacob made him never age to punish richard for previous sins he had comitted, the show is going strong in a new direction which is great intresting more mythology is coming. My prediction for the opener for the season 6 ep 1 would be we see the blackrock land on the island and introduced to hanso's grandfather, maybe even the twist of that the losties are on the ship or some madness, it doesnt make sense yet how the boat ended up in the middle of the jungle a bit mad. I wanna see more jacob now, more evil locke, walt smoke christian mythology just brilliant show i watched it live from ireland last night it was awesome well worth being up till 6 in the morning lol. We will see more dead people lol comic con will be awesome too, i think there will be negative criticism to this episode but it showed how the shows climax is getting better and better each season i will be a fan to the end and think the show may go on longer then the last season because of popularity.

Osbo

That's the point - the Losties didn't cause the incident. The Bomb never detonated. Everything happened as it would have happened -

Until...

Boom.

My guess is Juliette is one of the people not tied to time and space, as a former Other. This made her a variable.

That's another point - the valenzetti equation is a bunch of variables, not constants. And one of the "numbers" appears to be different - 3 makes a ton of appearances this season (most notably - 316)

Andrew

Great first hour...loved the opening. But I am sorely disappointed in the death of Juliet, mainly because it seems to only serve the Sawyer and Kate love story which feels overplayed. Moreover, Juliet is one of the most complex characters on the show and she deserved a more thought out death (hell even a heroic one where she sacrifices herself to save Kate--if we must push that storyline), or where I really thought it was headed (and someone else in an earlier post predicted) in a Juliet-centric episode where she dies in childbirth in front of a younger Ben. Outside of the fictional world of Lost...the show itself will loose one of its best actors in Elizabeth Mitchell. (Watch her first 2 centered episodes where she goes from the cold, bad ass on-island Other to the sweet, meek, pre-island researcher; she plays both sides so convincingly with amazing range while creating a continuity in the character).

Andy

@Goldfinger: Tarewet actually doesn't look much like the statue. While she does have the head of a crocodile, she has the fat body of a hippo, and the four legs of a lioness. The Egyptian God Sobek is pretty much identical to the statue, and his characteristics pretty closely match those of Jacob.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sobek

Chris in Ohio

i have seen several people say the statue is taweret, but that doesn't look like a hippo body to me. However i can see a much closer resemblance in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sobek in both looks and duties.

Rok

Never fails... you guys always start another comment thread minutes after I post a comment in the last one. Well, thanks to the wonders of copy/paste:

------------------------------------

Had a bleary-eyed discussion with my wife about this on the drive into work this morning, and I get the impression that Jacob and what's-his-face from the beginning of the episode are the personifications of free will and destiny. Two sides of the same coin, seemingly at odds, but must exist at all times.

On the one hand, Jacob is helpful, but always trying to remind people they have a choice in the road they take (reminding Kate she doesn't have to steal, reminding Hurley he doesn't have to get on the plane, reminding Ben he doesn't have to kill him). If I had to guess, he's the "bright light" being that appeard to Locke ages ago in Season 1 and to which Locke alluded to verbally in (I think) Season 2.

On the other hand, I am now 99% convinced that the other man is the Dark Smoke monster, and he is also this new "dark Locke" roaming around (the "loophole" is that he finally found a form he could adopt in which everyone would listen to unconditionally and allow him to kill Jacob, too). Ben's confrontation with his daughter/monster happened conveniently outside of Dark Locke's presence. I also remember way back when Eko confronted his brother and basically told him to go piss up a rope, that's when the Smoke Monster killed him. He broke from the destiny that he should have followed and exerted free will enough to break free from it. At which point, the Monster had to kill him to get him out of the way. The only person, then, who has broken from their destined track and still gotten away with it, the path that they should have followed given everything else up until that point, is Desmond when he turned that key. (Addendum since my last post: technically, now, so has Juliet, though if they somehow have her survive a hydrogen bomb and ground zero...)

Pursuing this line of thought, the Monster's ability to adopt forms is to influence people to continue down those pre-defined roads to the bitter end. He is the Christian Sheppard we've seen, influencing both Locke and Jack to pursue a path that both continues the time loop and gets him a host in which he can inhabit. It was never Jacob in that cabin Ben went to. It was this other being, and one would assume the ash ring was to keep him there but at some point, the ring was broken.

Still not sure if this Dark Jacob was the Walt "apparitions" we saw, or if that was actually Walt projecting somehow. Those early days when Walt spoke backwards may have been the Smoke Monster still working out how to appear to these folks. And if we follow this line of reasoning, and the fact that Jacob was at the statue "for a very long time", then when Christian "spoke on behalf of Jacob" at the cabin in the woods to tell him how to move the island, that was a total lie to get Locke to start events in motion (i.e. moving the island) that would get us to the present day.

Apparently, both Dark Locke and Jacob can interact with the real world, but they can't seem to come in contact with each other. They have to influence others to do so. And they certainly cannot kill each other. That drawing on the temple wall where Ben meets the Smoke Monster seemed to have the Smoke Monster and the statue god facing each other. In conversation or confrontation?

Now another question: who exactly is this third group? Certainly, they follow Jacob from way back, but have no association with The Others as we have known them. Side note: I gotta say, I like Lapidus more and more every time we see him. He reminds me of some old-school 70's tough guy, and a good contrast to the other characters we've had on the island. (Addendum since my last post: had Lapidus ever met Locke? I can't recall them ever crossing paths, and if so, how would he know the significance of who Locke was? I could be mistaken, though...)

My thoughts might not be the most cohesive, but it's still pretty early in the a.m., so maybe I'l have more later.

Stay Lost.

P.S. Hey, Jacob, when you're talking to someone who's holding a knife and says "what about me?", you probably don't want tor espond with "what ABOUT you?"

Rok

Also, I think I will really enjoy this Dark Locke reboot of the character. I think Terry O'Quinn had wrung about as much as he could from the character, but this turn will allow him to flex his acting muscles in the other direction. I'm looking forward to it.

And Ben, I'm sorry, but you are so dead before the end of the series. You'll probably die in a sacrifice to atone for all the bad you've caused (rightly or wrongly -- implicitly, Jacob is saying "quit you're damned whining about how your father never cared about you and move on. YOU killed him. YOU assisted in The Purge. YOU caused the death of your daughter. YOU killed a good man in Locke. YOU killed Jacob -- or well, he seems to have), but you will be dead nonetheless.

Sobaika

A FANTASTIC EPISODE! Maybe not what we were expecting cliffhanger-wise, but it was pretty baller.

RANDOM THOUGHTS:

- Jacob and Nameless illustrate the good vs. evil/black vs. white battle that show has hinted at since the beginning. Their beginning conversation showed their continuous struggle in watching new groups come to the island, struggle for leadership, and ultimately self destruct. Our Losties were just another set of players on their giant chessboard aka The Island.

- Nameless needs a 'loophole' in order to kill Jacob. Are they bound by the same rules Ben and Charles are?

- The statue seems to be that of Egyptian deity Tarewet. Tarewet is said to mate with, who else, the god of EVIL.

- Jacob went to visit each of the characters (Jack, Kate, Sun/Jin, Hurley, Ilana, Locke) and seemed to set them on their path's to the island. He also made a point to touch each of them - significance?

- We now know that Locke = Nameless, and somehow this provdided the loophole. Was Nameless also Christian Shepherd? Do we all still think the host of dead characters on the island (Yemi, Alex, etc.) were really Smokey? Alex/Smokey told Ben to do what John Locke said, did it really mean Nameless? Is Smokey an agent of Nameless? For what it's worth, I think that Christian=Nameless, everything else was Smokey. Why? Christian and Locke have a lot in common - they both died off island, had their bodies brought to the island, were not buried, and are wearing the same shoes.

- I do not believe Locke was ever 'special' or the new leader. Richard thought so because Locke went back in time and TOLD him he was special. We now know even Richard was being duped by Nameless/Locke. Prior to this season, Locke was only guided by hallucinations and dreams and the vague belief that his is their leader. Looks like poor Locke was duped one final time.

- JULIET! I cannot believe they introduced the most functional relationship in Lost's history just to destroy it episodes later. She was a brilliant actress, and in this episode elevated the ridiculous lines she was given ("Stop Jack, "Help Jack", "You don't love me wahhhhhhhhhhh") Props to Elizabeth Mitchell and Josh Halloway for selling their relationship and selling their final scenes.

- I don't think Jacob wasn't the guy in the cabin who said "Help me." According to Ilana, Jacob hasn't been there in a while. My theory is that Nameless was in the cabin, and began this entire downward spiral.

- Remember the last time we saw the Swan implode? Everyone in it survived, was blasted off into different directions, and Desmond became "unstuck" in time. I predict that the H-Bomb detonation + magical magnetic properties send all of our Losties into present day. Juliet will die from her wounds. It also doesn't look to good for Sayid, which is sad, he's a fantastic character portrayed by one of the show's better actors.

STAY LOST!

Sobaika

Also - Michael Emerson confirmed to TV Guide that he believes the statue to be Taweret. That, along with the hippo head and ideology behind Taweret allow me to think that it is the statue.

I also think that Miles was right - they caused the incident. Not only is it logical, but the episode was CALLED 'The Incident."

Jay Queper

I'm not so sure the losties "caused" the incident. I think the incident is part of the island's history and was caused by the drilling, as it "always" has. The drilling broke through the electromagnetic properties, the equipment was sucked into the hole, Chang's arm was crushed... all as we have seen it happen before. Somehow Dharma had contained it, built the Swan, and Radzinski had to deal with his egomaniacal consequences. The fact that the bomb did not detonate immediately allowed the incident to happen as per destiny.

Now bring in the variable-Juliet being sucked in and then detonating the bomb. Seems that Faraday's theory will indeed work (otherwise, really, why even bother going through the whole storyline). That is what will now change the course of what happens DURING the incident, not what CAUSES the incident. This will likely cause a whole new chain of events that will be different from the past we know. The question now being, if the Swan does not get built, Desmond does not end up there, hence he won't "not push the button", hence flight 815 does not crash.

This appears to be the carefully crafted scenario brought about by Jacob's nemesis from the show opener. And indeed, it does appear that Locke's "special" quality is that he's so wanting to be someone special that he gets conned by Ben and Jacob's nemesis and, in dying, gives the nemesis a vehicle to put his plans in motion and kill Jacob.

The big question is where do we go from here? Holding on to the possibility that we see Juliet again since, in dying she may actually change her history and never end up in the island in the first place. That's enough to give you a headache.

By the way, I love Rok's theory about Jacob and his nemesis being the personification of free will and destiny! Isn't that what we've been told all along!

Always look forward to your podcast! Stay Lost!

monika

oh my god! i am still processing this great two hours of television. and i absolutely loved new music theme by giacchino!after all those years we can finally start to put pieces of lost all together. its just getting better and better.

Lorne

I haven’t read all the comments, and I apologize if I’m re-iterating, I'm wondering if the writers might be using one of the oldest plots around - Love conquers all.
In a battle of Good vs. Evil, it’s usually the power of love that tips the balance towards good, and surprises evil that humans can harness that emotion into power. The most recent example for me is Harry Potter, and watching Juliet’s sacrifice, and the para-love-agram, I think it will be a driving force in Season 6, including love between mother/father and children.

Lucidlife

@Eve

"Does anyone else see any similarities between Lost and Ayn Rand's novels "Atlas Shrugged" and "The Fountainhead"?
Eve"

TPTB definitely take from a lot of sources, and Sawyer was reading 'Atlas Shrugged', so it's probably safe to say there's some reference to the queen of objectivist doldrums.

http://www.cauthon.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/sawyer2.jpg

Lucidlife

*edit* Sawyer is obviously reading the Fountainhead. oops!

LeChuck

I think they are both named Jacob, two sides of the same coin... So the "Bad Jacob" was pretending to be Christian Sheppard when he brought Locke to the Donkey Wheel. It was at that time that the idea that Locke had to die to save the Island was planted. We saw in "Follow the Leader" that it was Locke who told Alpert to tell time-travelling Locke that he'd need to die. Oddly enough both Locke and Richard learned of the death idea from each other, but it was always Christian who came up with the idea.

Maybe Bad Jacob can only mascarade as a dead person.

Good Jacob meant for Ben to kill him. He knew it would happen and thus enginered the fates of our Losties. Perhaps Jacob visited them in his flashbacks after his own death. Afterall only fools are slaves to time and space...

Jon Stephenson

How poetic was it that the great manipulator (Ben) gets duped by someone appearing as the person who has been duped more than anyone else on the show.

As far as the Sobek vs Tawaret arguement goes:

I know the statue doesnt fit classic depictions of Tawaret, but the head does not look like Sobek to me. Particularly the ears and roundness of the statues features.

If you look beyond the appearence to the roles of the two dieties, I would think that Tarewet would make sense due to her connection to fertility and motherhood.

So if this is Tawaret, could the destruction of the statue of the goddess of motherhood have something to do with the inability of women to now give birth on the island? It is clear that before the destruction of the statue this wasnt an issue, Faraday and Miles were most likely both born and conceived there.

Jon Stephenson

I've attached a link to a description of Tawaret. I think the head on the middle picture is very close to the statue. It even has the same silly hat.

http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/gods/explore/main.html

Bill

Didn't the Losties prevent the incident so that the hatch will never have been built and their plane never have landed on the island? Therefore Locke(or his likeness) couldn't be used to kill Jacob.

Karen LH

I'm surprised that there has been so little mention of the Flannery O'Connor reference. (Jacob was reading "Everything That Rises Must Converge" outside the building where Locke fell.) A major theme in Flannery's stories is that grace is often brought about through violence. (Or: sometimes God has to hit you over the head with a baseball bat to get your attention.)

Also, while I think that the Jacob/Esau parallel works, the references to Christ seemed very strong: Jacob cooking fish on the beach ... rescuing Kate when she was caught shoplifting, and then telling her to "go and sin no more" ... raising Locke from the dead. And it did look like Jacob deliberately allowed Ben to kill him. It's also not hard to see Ben as the disciple turned traitor. And Ben's questions to Jacob (and Jacob's "What about you?") sounded like questions asked of a God who is silent and who doesn't explain himself. Jacob's reply may have been a combination of telling Ben that he (Ben) is in charge of who he is, and also telling him that he doesn't necessarily get to know all the answers (a la God's "Where were you when...?" to Job).

I doubt very much that the writers intend some kind of Christian allegory, but may be playing with good vs. evil, free will vs. fatalism (as others have suggested), and that themes of grace and suffering, Jacob as Christ figure and anti-Jacob/Esau as Satan figure (also, Satan is "the accuser", as is the smoke monster), may be pieces of that.

Khatruman

I like how Jack is Trashcan Man! Great allusion to The Stand. So here's another reason for the Good vs. Evil thing. Also loved the allusion to Lord of the Rings, with a twist: Frodo, errr Juliet, falls!

filmdog

Lindelof and Cruse have stated that the last season is a parallel to the first. I think that means the h-bomb was sucessful in altering the timeline, and next season will begin with us (re)discovering the main characters in a world wher 815 didn't crash. But since "what happened happened" the forces of "destiny" (the watchword for next season) will still reunite them, providing some good drama and touching reunions (Juliet/Sawyer?). Even without the crash, the Island is still a force of nature (as is Jacob) and our cast will quickly be pulled into that conflict, as the endgame plays out (whatever the heck it is.)

CvT

And to follow on with Karen LH's point... Ben = "Doubting Thomas" and will 'believe' again when Jacob returns from the dead (on the third day?). Also, by returning from the dead, the bible parallels continue (i.e. Good triumphs over evil). Just a thought.

Also, what did Richard say after opening the door to Jacob's house?

Luke

i hAve been a lost fan since the show began and i am officially no longer a fan this finale was the worst episode of lost i have ever seen and it is a perfect example of how the producers of this show have absolutely no idea what they are doing i ahve tried to keep an open mind and hope that they know wha they are doing the entire time i have watched the show but this episode is a perfect example of the fact that they have no idea what they are doing. i am done with this show. they need to realize that they cant keep opening more mysteries until they have explained past ones. i am fed up. worst episode of lost ever. thanks for absolutely nothing. fuck lost!

David

When Richard opens the door to Jacob's house, he says "Tell him I said Hello"

Mark B

As far as I am concerned the jury is still out on this episode. I guess that means I didn't think it was that good cause normally I find episodes good from the second they finish.

The thing I keep coming back to is Juilet's fall into the shaft. It was so close to being a jump the shark moment you could touch the shark. She fell, what 100 feet plus, along with tonnes of metal and survives. Then she hits the innards of a hydrogen bomb (which was designed to explode on impact and has also fallen 100+ feet) with a small rock and it goes off ? Oh please.

It's not the killing of Juliet I mind (thou I do -- kill off the only real relationship LOST has ever had) it's that she survived the fall compounded with the bomb thing. Just have the bomb be dropped and her dragged into the shaft then the bomb go off .... if you want to make it more poiniant have her pulled in first then Jack drop the bomb after.

Other than that liked the whole Jacob thing ... but why kill him off staright away ?

It's going to be a long wait.

Karen LH

Here's a snippet I'd love to see next season: Rose meets Jacob, there's some kind of connection/recognition, and as a result of their meeting, Rose and Bernard (who only want to "retire") flash back in time to the beginnings of the island to live out their days in peace and to be "Adam and Eve".

I like the suggestion that the bomb never went off—that the flash was everyone returning to 2007 (triggered by the incident).

Tahir

Great finale.

The reddish fish Jacob was preparing.....red herring ?
So whats the red herring here ?

I have to say my favourite part was seing Bernard, Rose and
Vincent again.

Cooper

When Jacob went to visit various members of the Losties in the real world, he orchestrated circumstances to provide two of the Oceanic 6 with reason to return to the island (Hurley and Sayid.) The other three didn't need convincing (at least, not by Jacob.

Perhaps Jacob was manipulating them to get back to the island, change the future and thus prevent his own death?

tkoopa

Rose and Bernard living off their retirement = Adam & Eve !

Justin B.

Juliet was the only flashback where Jacob DID NOT visit the person in question. Significant?

Largent

I suppose it's possible the statue represents some Egyptian deity that only exists in LOST, but my opinion comes down on the side of Sobek of the Island. It doesn't look anything like Taweret (no lion arms and legs, no crocodile back, not pregnant, not even female.)

With this Egyptian influences so strong, could Jacob be Ra and the smoke monster be Apophis (Apep). Both locked in a cyclical battle as Apophis tries each night to kill Ra and fails?

Apophis is usually described as a serpent with spring-like coils, and the image of the smoke monster in the heiroglyphs down in Smokey's lair looked similar to a zig-zag snake.

Apophis supposedly never requires nourishment (except to breathe in his own shouts) and Jacob offers the man some fish and he says that he has already eaten in a sort of matter-of-fact way. Could breathing in his own shouts be the backwards talk/whispers?

Apophis was also supposed to have a terrifying roar.

But this being LOST, we are just assuming that Jacob is the good guy. How do we know it isn't the other way around?

Osbo

On Horace's place -

It's Ben's place in the future. And they broke through a wall, which had hieroglyphs. What we saw was the beginning of the secret room behind the secret room.

My theory is that what happened happened, up to and until Juliet blew up the bomb. Everything up to that point has a future corollary - Chang's hand, Razinsky's guilt, Miles and Charlotte leaving the island when they were young, Eloise NOT being there so Dan can be born, etc.

The only inconsistency was Richard claiming to "watch them die." But Richard, as we learned, isn't really above lying.

It's possible the incident released Cerebus, the monster, which is why he has "vents" - the tunnels underneath, the underworld, had been his domain until release.

This bomb would cause the deaths of Razinksy, Chang, and others - all of which would have had futures beyond the incident.

Not Every Nook and Cranny

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but the skeletons from the caves that Locke called "Adam and Eve" could be Rose and Bernard.

Here's an interview from season 3:
What is the meaning or significance of the two skeletons that Jack and Kate found in the cave of season 1?

CUSE: The answer to that question goes to the nature of the timeline of the island. We don't want to say too much about it, but there are a couple Easter eggs embedded in [the Feb. 7 episode], one of which is an anagram that actually sheds some light on the skeletons and hints at a larger mythological mystery that will start to unfold later in the season.
LINDELOF: There were certain things we knew from the very beginning. Independent of ever knowing when the end was going to be, we knew what it was going to be, and we wanted to start setting it up as early as season 1, or else people would think that we were making it up as we were going along. So the skeletons are the living — or, I guess, slowly decomposing — proof of that. When all is said and done, people are going to point to the skeletons and say, ''That is proof that from the very beginning, they always knew that they were going to do this.''

Jes'

LOST never disappoints when it comes to finales. No worries about the long wait.. Football season will keep me occupied until Season 6. Go Panthers! :)

Scott in Philly

I'm sad juliet is dead - after they spent so many episodes costuming her in cleavage-revealing shirts.... what's the deal with that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2A1nQKjr2s

now why edit the video like this?

frankmorris

@ Justin B
My guess on why Jacob was not in Juliet's flashback is because she was the only one that was not aboard flight 815. Jacob managed to touch everyone, Locke's shoulder, the boop on Kate's nose etc., maybe marking them in some way to come to the island?

Bill

I think the main themes for this show are life and death. The wages of sin are death but the gift of God is everlasting life. The others are key to this show, Richard Alpert has long life, the others are concerned with children and fertility. When little Ben becomes an other he loses his innocence or ignorance and gains some unknown knowledge, knowledge is light and ignorance dark. The others speak Latin the language of the enlightened. The others seem to be those who were almost dead but are healed. Episode titles and familiar sayings reflect these themes, Dead is Dead, Live together, Die alone, This Place is Death.

Jon Stephenson

After looking at another Sobek vs Tawaret thread on the Fuselage, one of the posters stated that on ABC's website recap that clearly state that the statue IS Tawaret. Thats proof enough for me.

http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=recap#t=162212&d=201648

And along the Egyptian theme has anyone ever pointed out that Horace sounds an awful lot like Horus?

Jon Stephenson

One last comment on the Egyptian theme. The top of the tapestry show the symbol of the Sun God Aten. Depicted are the rays projecting out.

http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/gods/explore/main.html

What is interesting about this is that Moses was sometime addressed by that title.

Furthermore Aten was worshipped as the one true god for a brief period of time in Egyptian History. And what was Moses first commandment?

There seemed to be a few more references to the ten commandments in the episode as well. For example, the first flashback is all about "Thou shall not steal". And what about not making idols? The statue is the biggest idol I've ever seen.

Rachel

I really hope that Juliet is not dead. She is absolutely one of my favorite characters and Elizabeth Mitchell is brilliant.

With that said, did you all catch the continuity error in the final Juliet scene? When she first comes to she's bleeding at the mouth (always a bad sign), but as soon as she spots the bomb she's cleaner and has no blood near her mouth, this continues through her rock bashing SOB moment. Maybe I'm just really praying she's not dead, but usually our friends at LOST are very particular about the details. Could this be an Easter Egg? Does her fate change when she spots the bomb and realizes that she must take care of things? I wonder if she does change the future at that point and causes a flash/explosion so that they all get propelled to 2007 or wherever they are supposed to be...

Also, whose eye is in the promo for season 6? Jack's? Juliet's?!?!!!!!

waiting for lost


If you watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze0VZ_68nzU (of the eye from the promo) and freeze it just as the eye opens (during the 13th second)I swear you can see someone sitting down wearing dungerees and a white shirt reflected in the eye. Prob just a memeber of the crew but still .....

Brown-Green eye .... any takers ?

Andrew

Question: When Richard, Ellie, Jack and Sayid are underground Richard asks Jack if he knows Locke; he says he visited him 3 times. The first was when he was born, the second was to give him the compass, knife, book etc, do we know the third time? Was it when he was in high school? Thanks.

Niko the Quailman

I'm really looking forward to finding out what happened between the Incident and the Purge, that's about 15 years. Also, I'd be interested to see how Radzinsky came to end up as a splat on the Swan ceiling. Great podcast guys, thanks from Sussex, UK.

LeChuck

Having watched the episode again, I'd say one of the most interesting scenes is Frank and Ilana's group walking to the cabin. I love the exchange:

Frank: What's it(Locke's body) for?
Man: To show them what they're up against.
Frank: And what's that?
Man: Something much more terrible than what's in there(the crate).

Mark

When Jacob met Sayid in the real world, that was Nadia with him right? We saw Nadia get hit by a car and I presume she died. However, I thought she was killed at the beginning of the season? Ben tells Sayid that Widmore did it and that is how Ben gets Sayid to work for him. Did I miss something?

Another random thought. This is kind of old and sorry if it was brought up before. In Season three the Others make the Losties help them build a runway on the small island. At the time I remember thinking WTF? Now in this season, when the second plane crashes, Lapitus goes "Look there's a runway" So it would seem that the Others knew the second plane was coming? Has this been brought up before?

Scott in Philly

@Luke & others who are "fed up"... it's been 5 years, mate with only like 17 episodes to go... and this is the straw that breaks the camels back? if you really can deal with the crazy you probably should've just gotten off the train at "smoke monster" in season 1. or "dude living in an underground hatch" in S2 - what they are doing with the show now is nothing different than they ever have

@"Who's eye is it" people - I don't know. I think it actually could be Jack's. Screencaps from S1 make it look like the color could be the same - it's just not as close up of a shot of the eye

http://www.losttvfans.com/page/Screencaps+-+Season+1+-+%27Pilot%3A+Part+l%27

Mark B

@Scott in Philly -- Sure looks like Jacks eye. Thanks for the link.

@Mark -- yes it was Nadia, yes her death was reported earlier in the season. The finale was a flashback to when she was died. And yes Ben claimed one of Widmores people killed her. And yes the we have to assume the Others built the runway.

@Scott in Philly again -- I'm not fed up, I'm not going to stop watching, I just think the whole Juliet death was done very badly. Not up to LOST standard. Rest of the epi was as good as ever but hat one major scene just pushed the limit a bit too far.

Khatruman

After watching a second time, something went off in my head when I saw the Rose and Bernard scene which said, "That scene's going to be key!"

The whole conversation with Jacob and the man in black with the Black Rock arriving (and did anyone else speculate that Richard, AKA Ricardos, is from the Black Rock?) reminded me of God and Satan talking at the beginning of the story of Job as to whether man is truly good. This is reinforced with Ben at the end, who is very Job-like, being ignored by God (Jacob), though he does the opposite of the Job thing. Is this the whole backgammon game thing going on with everyone whose on the island? A challenge between God and Satan as to whether man is truly good or only good in fear of God or because God rewards him.

Almost everyone on the island has fallen from grace in some way, almost everyone except for Rose and Bernard. They loved each other, lived for each other, and in that scene, they show that they accept what will happen and wish only to live happily, and are ready to die when it is time. I think Rose and Bernard will show the man in black that Jacob is right: man is truly good.

Khatruman

Interesting quote by Flannery O'Connor:

"All my stories are about the action of grace on a character who is not very willing to support it, but most people think of these stories as hard, hopeless and brutal."

Mister Mingo

There are a few things I found interesting about Juliet in this episode.

1) She was the only one not touched by Jacob in her flashback. It was the only flashback in the episode where Jacob doesn't appear.

2) She tells Sawyer "Maybe we were never meant to be together." That got me thinking, what if she's right? What if she's a variable?

Juliet is a fertility doctor Ben had brought to the island. If you remember, in "The Brig" Richard tells Locke "Ben has been wasting our time with novelties like fertility problems. We're looking for someone to remind us that we're here for more important reasons." So it seems this is not Jacob's orders, it's Ben's.

3) Finally, the ending. Juliet survives an impossibly high fall and blows up Jughead's core, cutting to, for the first time in the show's history, a white background with "LOST" in black lettering.

Also, don't you think an h-bomb would have destroyed the hatch door, the construction site, and any Dharma employee nearby? The hole wasn't THAT deep. A nuclear explosion could reach the surface, I'd imagine.

With these three pieces, I came to the conclusion that Juliet changed something. I'm not necessarily saying she stopped flight 815 from crashing like Faraday predicted, but possibly something more subtle? Maybe something that has yet to happen in 2007, even? I dunno. I think this means something.

Lucidlife

I imagine that it's obvious why Jacob killed Nadia...needing Sayid back on the island to pawn around...but Jacob freaking killed Nadia! I'm glad he got a knife in the aorta.

CLOP

Did anyone find it funny that Jacob touched everybody as an adult except Kate and Swayer?

I love that Bernard syas they are "Retired"

BlackEyedDog

Did Jacob kill Nadia, or save Sayid?

Maybe both Nadia and Sayid were going to get hit by the car...Jacob asked for directions, but only Sayid stopped.

Frankmagnet

The eye looks like Kate.

Irene

Great episode. I agree with the fate vs free will rather than good vs evil theory. Jacob would be free will, telling people that what they do is their choice. I think the conversation in the beach at the beginning is very significant: "This people are going to fight and kill each other, like it always happens"(Fate) vs "It only ends once but whatever happens in between is progress"(Free will/Jacob). It makes a lot of sense that fate would like to kill free will, as well. Considering this, I think that although Locke always thought he'd be in Jacob's side, given the choice he'd have always picked fate rather than free will, so he's right where he should be.
On another subject, I can't believe the writers killed Juliet. I just hope this puts an end to the Jack-Kate-Sawyer love triangle, in the future, the past or wherever they turn up next.

Naomi

In the first scene on the beach, did anyone notice that Jacob and the other guy spoke with a very current American accent ?
My first though was that maybe both of them were from the future or today? And that somehow they were trapped in time or had experienced a white flash causing them to travel very far back in time. Maybe the loophole is what will set them free from being trapped in infinity. Also, who do they answer to? As Ben points out, everyone answers to someone…

steven

there is an obvious good vs evil, black vs white. however which one is jacob? good or evil? Captain Lepedis stated that he who makes out he is the good one is often not.... So Jacob is the one that everyone has been following on the island, however the inhabitants have never seen him (just like any religion - i.e. God) - what if God is the bad one??

UD

Enjoyed the episode. I hope Sayid lives, but it doesn't look good for Juliet. Can't believe the season is over-feels like it just started. Does anyone know if we'll have more episodes in the final season? I wonder who "they" in "They're coming," are. I wonder what year our Losties will be in, in the season premiere.

Kunal

The Statue looks like Sobek the crocodile god 100%. (Look him up on wikipedia, couple of very interesting parallels) And here's something interesting...Locke's theme on the soundtrack CD of season 1 is named "Crocodile Locke"!!

Being the die-hard John Locke fan that I am, I'm going to take this as a sign that the real Locke isn't going to be dead forever and could have a special destiny after all...as an island god! :p

UD

One last question, Jacob brought Locke back to life when we feel from the building, right?

Kunal

Apparently so yes.

Darkjohnson

How about we call he who has no name, 'Yang' - the balance to Jacob as 'Yin'.

I'm not sure either is good or evil yet.

As for what comes next, I agree with the theory that our intrepid time travelers return to current time (whatever that is supposed to be) and I'm not convinced Juliette is dead.

Who is to say the flash "blast" was the bomb going off?

I can see the opening for the next season, close-up on Jack's eye, pull back and he's on the edge of the Swan station crater. He abruptly sits up and we see the other travelers scattered around the perimeter with Juliette in the center, shaking it off.


Darkjohnson

@Eve
"Does anyone else see any similarities between Lost and Ayn Rand's novels "Atlas Shrugged" and "The Fountainhead"?"

As a fan of both those books and this show, my answer is no. At least nothing in the story (unless I'm missing something).

Oh and if the bomb going off prevents the incident and that keeps the plane from crashing, then shouldn't that undo them coming back in time to prevent the incident? Typical time travel paradox.

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