LOSTCasts 89: The Candidate

This week's podcast focuses on season 6, episode 14 of LOST, The Candidate. Join Matt and John as we talk about the story arc of the flash-sideways, question Jack's ultimate role as a Jacob replacement, question how candidates get crossed off the list, what surprises the writers may have in store for the finale, best and worst spin-off shows, and much more.

Download podcast #89 here
Watch live recorded video cast here

Links related to the podcast:
LOST Live event website - buy tickets or submit questions

LOST links:
LOST Wristbands website
LOST Marathon Watching for charity
LOST Limericks on The Fuselag

Remember, our next podcast will be the Saturday before the finale, on the 22nd... See you then! Stay LOST!

Comments

[lburf]

If Lapidus is dead, what purpose has he served since coming back to the island? he has only ever been in the background.

[Ian (Liverpool, UK)]

Thanks for the podcast guys.

I don't think Lapidus is dead, as I suspect they would have made it more obvious. Unless, as lburf hints towards, he has never really been important to the story.

Can't wait to see what Desmond says to Jack when he gets to the well. I like that Jack is starting to work out what the rules might be - even if we're not :-)

Oh, and I realise that I may be "a freak" who needs to "slap myself", but PLEASE avoid ALL spoliers unless flagged in advance at the end of the podcast guys - even the 'Next time on Lost...' references (Matt - I'm looking at you). I go as far as to try and avoid the NAME of the next episode - never mind the content !

[Mike in the Box]

RE: Lapidus

Jorge's podcast (Geronimo Jacksbeard) and the Official LOST Podcast (w/ head writers/executive producers, Damon and Carlton) hint very heavily that indeed the emperor of eyebrows is dead. Sorry dudes.

[CrackMonkey]

just listened to the podcast and you guys mentioned that Kevin Costner was supposed to be Jack originally. Where did you hear that? I've never heard that and can't confirm anywhere online.

[Matt Jones]

My mistake on the Costner thing. It was Michael Keaton.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0411008/trivia?tr0787284

[Rok]

By the way, guys, Jin *did* slip back into his native tongue to say he wouldn't leave Sun. Re-watch it (if you've got it available).

[Rok]

By the way, I think we should start a pool on what things will get answered by the end. Yeah, I know some won't be cut-and-dry, but I wonder if we'll ever get an answer to things like "why couldn't Ben kill Widmore when he had the chance?" or "why could no one who got pregnant on the island survive childbirth on the island?" or "was the magic box Ben alluded to when talking to Locke just another lie? And if so, how did they get Locke's dad there?" and "what the hell was up with Ben's seemingly large network of people on the mainland?" and "how did people get back and forth from the island so easily? was it always the sub?" "Why WAS Walt important? Can they be more specific than he was special?"

And so on...

[lburf]

Another question: Why did the Dharma food drops continue?

[Nasher]

Hey when you guys were talking about having a famous cast list for a film and have them killed off in the first 5mins... that was the original idea for the show Red Dwarf.

They wanted to get every famous comedian in the uk as the crew of the ship for the wow factor.. only to have them all killed in the first few mins and leave you with a cast of a few unknowns.

Also you guys talk alot about the doctor being killed off in the first episode.. I've heard D&C say on many occasions that that was the original idea.. before casting.. and that, as with all the other cast parts, they changed just about every character to suit or incorporate the actor.. They liked Fox in the part and decided to keep him.. I recall they said that the Hurley character wasn't even in the original outline until Jorge auditioned for.. i think it was the part of Sawyer.

The thing about them knowing how the show would end from the begining is like it is for any author.. esp those writting say a trilogy of books and publishing them as such.. they may have an idea of the storys concept before they start and have a set amount of time and space to fill to bridge to the last book.. but ultmately the detail and often the crux of the story will change as the characters develop and they inform the writer of new ideas and directions.

Just coz at the inception of Lost they had an idea.. doesn't mean that end goal never moved or changed.

[gucci]

http://www.chanelbagmall.com chanel
I have been listening since you started.
I'm in it for the long haul...and now the closing
stretch.

[louis vuitton]

Another question: Why did the Dharma food drops continue?
http://www.lvbagmall.com/GUCCI-category-27-b0.html Gucci
http://www.lvbagmall.com/Prada-category-32-b0.html Prada

[Kunal]

"Across the Sea" was an amazing episode, the one I've been waiting for. We got asnwers galore, some partial, some complete. Like the origins of jacob and MIB, the Wheel backstory, Adam and Eve, the Rules, the source of the electromagnetism, the island's importance, and ofcourse, the origin of the smoke monster! I always thought that Smokey had something to with electromagnetism, the way he scans ppl with flashes, the sounds he makes and the lightning visible inside him and the way he can't go through a sonic/EM field barrier.

Very ballsy of the writers to leave MIB nameless! Makes me sympathize with him even more now. I'm so tempted to go over to MIB's side now. I always knew he wasn't evil and darkness that Jacob lied abt. And even if he is that now due to being the smoke monster, it was Jacob himself who made MIB that way. Yes, MIB did kill the "crazy mother" but she had it coming after what she did to the twins' real mother and after slaughtering an entire village of ppl. Is she also a smoke monster? Is she simply a twisted island guardian? Or is she the embodiment of the Island itself? In an interview, Evangeline Lilly called the character "Mother Earth" - Freudian slip or just an assumption?

I feel pity for MIB. He's been trapped on that island against his will for almost 2000 years. I highly doubt he's gonna spread evil into the world or anything like that when he leaves. He just wants to go home, across the sea. His methods may be diabolical but his goal is pure. My theory - Jacob doesn't want him to leave not because darkness will leave the island, but because the Light will leave! MIB's soul fused with the Light and has a part of it in Smokey.

It's clear that after MIB's soul fused with the EM, he became Smokey and his human body was lifeless and has been in the adam & eve cave since then. So since that time, Smokey must've assumed the shape of his own original body when we saw him in previous episodes like the Richard flashback.

I love how they took the scientific concept of Electromagnetism and told it in the context of the time period with the Source, the heart of the island and all that. EM is basically at the heart of everything. Every natural phenomena and force (except gravity) depends on it. Without EM there can't be Life or any sort of matter at all. Without EM, everything will "simple cease to exist". And it seems the Island is the origin point of all EM.

That is exactly what the Mother told us but in mystical terms: A source of Light that's a part of everyone, and "if the Light goes out here, it goes out everywhere". And she was right abt ppl greedy for more. The Dharma Initiative are big culprits. No wonder Jacob's people purged them.

[Bryguy]

They've really let this site go here at the end. I know they are not podcasting this weekend but how about a new link for "Across the Sea" at least!

[Kunal]

Yes, please make a link for the latest episode! I have 2 more pages of cool notes to share! lol.

[Rok]

Have to say I, too, have a lot more sympathy for MiB than I did before. Jacob can't even take the "never killed, never exacted revenge" high road after what he did to his brother. And I guess the Mother had been driven absolutely mad from being trapped on that island, too, for who-knows-how-long, weaving and weaving (for lack of anything better to do). Also, one would assume like other chosen ones, she couldn't kill herself, hence her "thanks" to MiB for killing her. I guess her "worse than death" warning about going into the cave was because you'd never be able to die, yet you could also never be allowed to leave. Eternal imprisonment.

Also, we now know the apparitions pre-date MiB (& I guess we are to assume they are the result of that "life-force" thingy), and that not all previous "ghosts" may have been MiB at all, but rather the island/whispers (w/ the notable exception of Christian, since I guess MiB can only take the form he was before, or anyone who'd come to the island already dead).

I can't say I understand what the rules actually are, though, other than MiB cannot leave because the life-force can't leave. Even as stated, the rules are a little self-contradictory, as the Mother says she made it so they can't "hurt" each other, yet Jacob pummels his brother, and then they change they're tune to can't "kill" each other. Okay.

I'm now suspecting that even Jacob doesn't really know who's supposed to replace him. It almost feels like to be a replacement, you must be born on the island, yet no one who conceives on the island lives through childbirth. So the mother must come to the island pregnant and give birth, despite the fact that there's exactly ONE vector to approach the island, and it's otherwise hidden from everyone. Those are some pretty bloody tall odds. But it leaves exactly ONE person...

Aaron. A Littleton in name, but (wait for it...) a Sheppard by lineage.

[Rok]

I'm also guessing we'll never find out why Walt was important, or if they changed that part of the story altogether (which negates the importance of huge sections of the 1st few seasons).

[Rok]

You know, if Christian was MiB all along, then how did he appear to Walt's Dad on the freighter just before it blew up, since it was supposedly outside the bubble protecting the island? Or did they move it closer at some point? Could've been just a continuity error on the writers' parts, but that seems unlike them. It would explain how Jin was caught in the time jumps too, since you had to be close enough to the islands to get included.

My guess for the continued Dharma drops (& it's a kludgy explanation, but we'll roll w/ it) is that they were dropped back in the 70's, and due to the odd time-shifting aspects of the protective bubble (remember when Faraday had them launch a rocket from the freighter to his location?) that they just took that long to arrive. Since the Dharma initiative could never see the island to begin with (one would assume, which may have also Bern a major reason why they suspected the power of the island), they just kept dropping at the same coordinates, think the island couldn't move.

[Kunal]

I like the Aaron = The Candidate theory. It explains why Christian/MIB manipulated events to get Aaron away from Claire and off the island. That would also be a great way to give Kate some real importance in the overall mythology since she raised and protected him for 3 years. But then again, she chose not to bring him back lol.

[Loney Childress]

Did anyone else think of mother, MIB, and Jacob as Mother Nature, Snow Miser, and Heat Miser? Comeon, that's funny.

[Kunal]

I went back and rewatched the season 1 scene where the Losties find the Adam and Eve skeletions and I noticed Jack guesses that the clothing is probably 50 years old. Good thing Jack's a spinal surgeon and not an archaelogist lol.

Also, in S1 Locke says of his off-camera encounter with Smokey - "I looked into the eye of the island, and what I saw was beautiful". When boy in black said that the "light" was beautiful, I instantly thought of Locke. Perhaps Smokey took him to the Source or showed him flashes of it.

The Rules weren't explained in a scientific way, but they were cleared up a bit. It seems the island's guardian has the power to make or enforce the Rules. Boy in Black did say to Jacob: "One day you can make up your own game and everyone else will have to follow your Rules. Flash to current day and in ep4, boy-Jacob's vision/apparition told MIB-Locke "You know the Rules. You can't kill him" referring to Sawyer.

Gr8 parallels with Claire, Rousseau and Claudia - getting marooned on the Island while heavily pregnant and giving birth soon after. Also, it was cool to finally see the crazy mother that MIB-Locke told Kate abt. He said she caused him to have permanent issues and I don't doubt it. Makes sense why in S4, MIB-Christian manipulated events to get Aaron away from soon-to-be-crazy Claire and off the island. MIB is very protective of Claire and Aaron, only for sentimental reasons I guess.

Interesting how Boy in Black could see dead-Claudia but jacob couldn't. Does Hurley have the same gift as MIB? I doubt it. I think the island CHOSE to give that vision/apparition to MIB alone. By now, it's pretty much confirmed that the Island has some kind of sentience/intelligence and maybe even a will.

This was 23 AD Roman times (see Claudia's dress and them speaking Latin) and there was no Statue, Temple or any heiroglyphs anywhere, So guess the last remnants of the Egyptians came and built all that stuff soon after.

Very intriguing how the Mother and MIB shared the same beliefs abt humanity and yet they were estranged. Jacob though disagreed with her and yet was loyal. I think the main thing Jacob and MIB disagree abt is the Island's importance and whether it needs protecting or not. MIB just wants to go home, he feels he doesn't belong here.

The song that Christian sang to Claire, and that Claire and Kate sang to Aaron - "Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket, Never let it fade away" reminds me of the Source and the way Mother said the Light must never be allowed to go out.

I'm now pretty excited abt the Alternate timeline's resolution cause we saw that the Island was at the bottom of the sea! Does that mean that the Light has gone out in the Alt? If so, why is everything (seemingly) fine? Is MIB right and the Island isn't really important at all? Is the Alt actually the original timeline and the Island timeline the alternate one? The Island and all that has happened on it does seem like an aberration.

My last note is about the game that washed up on the island that Jacob and MIB played regularly for 30 years. Firstly, the Mother was probably lying abt putting it there so that the boy in black continues to believe that there's nothing across the sea and that the island is all there is. The game definitely washed ashore with Claudia's people.

About the game itself, it's an ancient egyptian game called "Senet", similar to Backgammon but even older. In fact, it's the oldest game in the world. The name means "Game of Passing" and was also placed besides the dead to aid in their journey to the underworld and the Afterlife. Because of the element of luck in the game and the Egyptian belief in determinism, it was believed that the winner was under the protection of the Gods.

Now comes the coolest part - No one has ever discovered the original Rules of Senet! It's completely unknown. So over the years, people have made up their own Rules at different points in history :-)

[Paddy]

@Kunal and @Rok. Thanks for these posts gents, well thought out and presented. I've enjoyed reading them, thanks agin for taking the time to write them.

My one question is if MIB and Mummy are Adam and Eve from 23AD how come MIB was using that body much later like when the BLack Rock landed etc...?

[Paddy]

Oh hang on......... there were two Lockes (MIB and Body in coffin) so therefore two MIB's. I see it now! Bloody show

[Kunal]

When MIB turned into Smokey, he simply took the shape of his own human body and that's what we saw in the Richard flashbacks and in The Incident opening scene. He did tell Richard that "Jacob took my body, my humanity".

[Stu]

RE: Lapidus

The purpose he served was in making MIB's 'plan' to use the plane to escape at least semi-plausible. If they hadn't had a pilot amongst the survivors that storyline would have been even more outlandlish. Still, Jeff Fahey was seriously shortchanged by the upgrade to regular cast status :(

[kssmk]

@Kunal, or anyone else

I'm confused. If He can take the shape of his old body, and not just as an illusion but he can actually do stuff (like break the wine bottle) and Christian Shephard, why did Smokey need Locke's body?

[Paddy]

He was using locke's body to fool our losties into thinking he was locke, even whilst Lockes body wasn't even on the island......Oh god I just don't know

[lburf]

I can only imagine the reason that smokey need Lock's body (probably the same reason he used Jack's dad's body) is to make the show a bit more interesting.

Although, he probably had to abandon his old body, as it obviously no longer existed once it rotted away...?

[Paddy]

No, it would have rotted away in the 1800 years between his death and the arrival of the black rock but he was still using it then. I think the body was needed to make the ajira flight as close to the oceanic flight like ms. Hawking said.

Then when the body was revealed in the casket on the island by Ilana (for Jacob) it proved the Locke on the Island was MIB

[Kunal]

Oh dear, I don't think you've quite grasped the whole "Loophole" plan. I don't have the time right now to write it out, but it's really quite an incredible plan.

In (very) short, MIB manipulated events to make the real John Locke the leader of the Others so that he can assume dead-Locke's form and then order Richard to take him to Jacob and then LET HIM INTO the Statue to meet Jacob. Remember, only the leader is allowed to enter and then only by invitation. Well, Richard as Jacob's 2nd in command, "invited" him in by opening the door. (In episode 4, Richard: "Why do you look like John Locke?" - MIB: "I knew he'd get me access to Jacob").

Also, he could only break down and then manipulate Ben into killing Jacob by pretending to be John Locke resurrected and "special".

That's the short version lol. It's even more ingenious and complicated than that.

[Paddy]

I got that mate

[Kunal]

Well then isn't it obvious that it HAD to be John Locke's form for the whole Loophole plan to work :-) Everything depended on that deception.

[Paddy]

Yes that is obvious maybe you misunderstood what i meant, lburf seemed to be having trouble with it not me

[Bryguy]

I've never watched Lost. Do I need to watch the first 5 seasons and this season to know whats going on in the finale on Sunday? Or can someone bring me up st speed in a short post?
Thanks

[Big Mouth]

Hey Lostcasters, it sounds like we have a friend in common: Mr. Adam Mackadocious!